Michelle Duggar on Expectations

From TLC's Parentables:
One of the things Jim Bob and I realized early on in our relationship was the idea that we have expectations that we sometimes can't live up to. We all have ideals about what we expect from our loved ones, and this is something Brother Elmore, who is our preacher and pastor at our church has talked a lot about.

As a mom I could have an expectation of a clean house (or a semi-clean house) so I can at least walk down the hallway without tripping over toys, or the expectation of a good night's sleep of eight hours. Whatever those expectations are, our pastor has explained, may be way up here in the clouds, but our actual reality may be down here with what we're dealing with, and everything in between is frustration. And you can find yourself getting very angry and put out about the way your life is because you've got all these expectations of how you thought it was going to be, or what it was like when you were growing up.

When we realized early in our marriage that we needed to give those expectations to God -- we needed to yield our right to a clean house, to a full night's sleep, to whatever it is that we think we deserve or we should have -- and say, "Lord, I'm not going to have these higher expectations that may not ever actually get reached. I'm going to give this to you, Lord, and if you allow anything to happen, that's good. I'm going to praise you, and I'm going to be grateful and yield my expectations to you."
And here's what I think happens if we don't do this and we don't learn this lesson in our relationships: We're going to withhold praise, and we' won't be able to praise our spouse or our children because they're never going to meet our expectations. We're always going to have this attitude toward them that "You're irritating me. You are a frustration in my life. You are causing grief." So we need to be able to set aside ourselves and our expectations.

And yielding our expectations doesn't mean we don't need to make goals. Setting goals and making plans is different. But giving up expectations gives us a grateful spirit -- we're not discontent with where we are in life. And we're not always grumbling and complaining about the way things should be -- it really does create a spirit of gratefulness in our heart.

63 comments:

sandi said...

>And here's what I think happens if we don't do this and we don't learn this lesson in our relationships: We're going to withhold praise, and we' won't be able to praise our spouse or our children because they're never going to meet our expectations. We're always going to have this attitude toward them that "You're irritating me. You are a frustration in my life. You are causing grief." So we need to be able to set aside ourselves and our expectations.

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As one who was never praised by my parents and accepted for who I am,I really like that,and the way she said it. :)

Beth Anne said...

OK, I feel like I lost a few brain cells reading this. I think the point could have been summarized by saying, "REALITY BITES." Wow, Jim Bob and Michelle, you mean sometimes people disappoint other people? Things don't work out as planned? I had NO idea this happened! Thank you for encouraging me!

Snarkiness aside, for people who are trying to give advice, they do not draw a clear distinction between setting goals and having expectations. The two are certainly related, and I guess their point really is that sometimes you have to let go of your vision of how things SHOULD be and be content with what is. But, when I read through the passage, I couldn't stop thinking about Michelle's plastered on smile and baby talk...is the goal true peace, or is it maintaining that fake happiness and sweet countenance at all times, so you give the appearance of being "holy?"

Sometimes life is hard, things go wrong, etc. Everyone gets burned by life at some point, and as painful as it can be, it's a learning and growth experience as well. If you had unrealistic expectations and get hurt by others, then you learn to adapt. However, I think the Duggar philosophy is avoidance. Also, the seeds of discontent can sometimes inspire people to make great changes. One of my children is very Type A, hard-headed, demanding, etc. She is very challenging to parent. However, I have no doubt she will do big things in life, because she sees how things "could" be and has the determination and drive to make things better. She may end up being a doctor or veterinarian, or building homeless shelters, or SOMETHING where she takes the seeds of discontent and turning them into something positive. I also know she will never be a wallflower who allows her daddy to pick her husband. Sometimes, if you set high expectations for others, they actually meet them - I have no doubt she will keep her own kids and husband in line!

beef said...

I like this, it really speaks to me. I imagine we are all guilty of this to some degree...I know I certainly am.

Rainbow68 said...

On the surface, I agree with what Michelle has posted in that we don't need to smother our family with unrealistic expectations. I do think, though, that this could easily turn into suppressing real feelings that need to be dealt with an could overflow into real resentment. Choosing contentment and to uplift our loved ones is one thing. Becoming a resentful doormat doesn't honor God, either. The whole having a clean house thing doesn't really apply to her as much anymore, though, since she has four adult daughters, one mother in law, and Joy Anna to help That's six people who help keep the ship going. Michelle does come across, though, as patient and very laid back. Those two qualities have served she and her family well.

ennvee said...

I wonder if she wrote this after coming to the realization that she may not have the magical J20 child that we all know she and Jim Bob coveted.

There's also something to be said about giving your expectations to God and that you'll never be perfect, yet are adherents of a man whose whole schtick consists of 49 Character Qualities, 7 Deadly Behaviors, etc. etc. etc. that people are expected to follow in order to be the most Godly of people. Gothard ironically sets expectations that are IMPOSSIBLE to attain; a human cloaking himself in the name of God, wondering why there is so much desertion from his flock.

Beth Anne said...

"I do think, though, that this could easily turn into suppressing real feelings that need to be dealt with an could overflow into real resentment."

That is what I was getting at, but you said it much more nicely! I do think it's good advice to let go of any rigid notions you have about the way things "should" be or how people "should" act, since holding on to such notions can only lead to constant frustration when people do not live up to those standards. However, I also always look at what the Duggars say through the ATI/Gothard prism and get worried that they are practicing a form of "smile at all costs" because anything else does not project the image of a peaceful, content Christian. It's one thing to realize your expectations are unrealistic; it's another to deny what could be very valid reasons for being upset or frustrated.

On that note, I believe part of parenting is helping your kids work through feelings of discontentment, frustration, irritation, etc. Sometimes, they need to realize their expectations are too high and adjust how they view situations. Other times, there could truly be broken relationships, frustrating situations, etc. that have to be dealt with head on. I worry about the Duggar girls in this sense; for instance, what if they are in a "courting" relationship and are just not feeling it? Are they going to be encouraged to lower their expectations of what a romantic relationship should or could be? To stuff their feelings and be content with their courter, because to do otherwise is somehow sinful? How about poor Josiah being "discontented" that his mother was yet-again pregnant, after all the problems with Josie? God gave us brains, and I also believe his Holy Spirit indwells us and gives as a discerning mind, so we can tell right from wrong. I truly, truly hope that the Duggars are encouraged to use their God-given brains and wisdom to know when something is truly wrong and not to stuff their feelings for the sake of "contentment."

Seriously? said...

Religion is unnecessary for this basic philosophy.

From a psych or philosophical perspective, it makes sense to learn to be graciously accepting when life goes amok, as it does for everyone from time to time AND to learn to be grateful for all the good things and people Life has dropped into your path.

It's all about learning and practicing to concentrate on what you have vs. what you don't have. And APPRECIATING all those good things and people vs. always whining about what didn't go your way. (Kate Gosselin, I'm speaking to you.)

It's good to be grateful for what you have and IF you add willingness to WORK hard for important things that didn't just happen to fall across your path, THEN you've got a good shot at leading a meaningful life.

The non-religious among us are able to handle all these things WITHOUT childishly 'turning it over to god'. Contrary to Duggar-think, religion is not at all required for a meaningful and ethical life.

Sadly, the Duggars seem to encourage their kids to 'sweetly' (gag) accept that being holy rules out deep thought and questioning, REAL education, independence, respecting women as leaders.

Such wasted potential with Duggar-think.....

Wampascat said...

More Duggar wisdom? Oh, puhleeeze! If Jim Bob and Michelle want a long night's sleep or a clean house, all they need to do is relay that request to their built in nannies/ housekeepers. I'd like to hear from the real caretakers, their teenage daughters. Wouldn't Michelle have been in a pickle if she'd had a long string of sons instead of daughters in the early years?

tulip said...

Jim Bob & Michelle have said multiple times on the show (and Jim Bob often is the one to say it with a sly smile and chuckle) that there's a reason God gave them one girl right after another at the beginning of the line-up...yes, and we see the reasoning being played out every episode.

Seriously? said...

"Jim Bob & Michelle have said multiple times on the show (and Jim Bob often is the one to say it with a sly smile and chuckle) that there's a reason God gave them one girl right after another at the beginning of the line-up"

Oh, so your god is a misogynist, too, eh, JimBob? NO WAY I could ever revere a Duggar-like god.

Duggar is synonymous with Dumb IMO.

Alberta Rose said...

Ohh, I love what she wrote. I think no matter what your belief system, you can surely get something out of that. I know lots of couples and parents who become disillusioned due to setting expectations too high. Yes, there should be some expectations; however there also needs to be forgiveness, compassion and understanding.

Sami said...

The idea isn't that you are giving everything over to God without really thinking. The idea is that when things become overwhelming and unmanageable there is a reason to it. You just won't see that reason until later on with more perspective. Including taking away your expectations for what things should be, and what you think they ought to be.

Just because you are Christian doesn't mean that everything will be easy and life will be wonderful. If someone did they are sorely mistaken. The bible says that we have hard times in our lives.

Not a Fundie said...

I think expecting their daughters to raise all those siblings, do all those chores, never have an education that would lead to a career, always leaving yourself last, ad smiling through it all is A LOT to ask. Just saying. On top of that they may never move out of their parents home if they don't find someone to marry in that small, insular community.

Seriously? said...

"The idea is that when things become overwhelming and unmanageable there is a reason to it. You just won't see that reason until later on with more perspective."

Another way to look at life is that there isn't always a reason. There isn't always a plan. Life happens. It is random and we are called to maintain our dignity and ethics without a need for the promise of some mysterious, late-arriving 'answer'.

It's good to be decent merely to be decent, vs. hoping your decency will buy you eternal bliss/heaven.

Doubtful the Duggars could even BEGIN to comprehend such a concept, as their expectations for human behavior are so very low ("Nike!", ridiculous sense of 'modesty', courting, dancing and alcohol forbidden). Am guessing they may still believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause...

londonbridges said...

I agree that life happens. I may never know the reason why something did or did not happen, but my belief is that I need to act with dignity and maintain my ethics because it is the right thing to do. IMHO, the Duggars have some questionable 'logic' for their actions. It is also my belief that any actions on my part do not buy my way to heaven. I think that the Duggars try to avoid situations that could cause them to struggle. e.g. 'Nike', no pre-marital kissing or affection, attending college where students may have different coloured hair, etc. Living life in a very tightly controlled environment is not healthy IMHO, nor is it reality.

Alberta Rose said...

Another way to look at life is that there isn't always a reason. There isn't always a plan. Life happens. It is random and we are called to maintain our dignity and ethics without a need for the promise of some mysterious, late-arriving 'answer'.

People who have no ethics or dignity are also usually lonely because they are not attractive to other people and are unemployed because without ethics, no one wants to do business with them. The Duggars do what they do because they believe it will get them into Heaven. That's just one of many reasons to live life as it happens, responding with dignity and ethics.

Rudy Tecat said...

This sounds like something they would preach to their children. The children shouldn't have expectations of time with Mommy and Daddy, expectations of experiencing all sorts of people, expectations of an education that is taught by professionals and degrees that are not laughed at by major colleges and universities, expectations of experiencing life on their own and independence,experiencing the challenges and rewards of a career (this is for the girls), experiencing a teen-age life that isn't all about cleaning up after and feeding twenty people day after day with pennies in pay (this, again, is for the girls), experiencing privacy without cameras following them around even into their bedrooms. Jim Bob and Michelle can give up their expectations of a clean house, but I bet they won't give up their expectations of their daughters cooking every meal for them, comforting their babies for them, packing their suitcases for them, doing their laundry for them, etc.

tiffches said...

Their house is kept clean by the kids. The older kids become parents to the younger kids at a very young age. The kids are not allowed a real education or to have their own expectations. And to be correct, the older ones are not kids. They are adults held captive by their parents.

So yes, Michelle and Jim-Bob certainly had their expectations met. Problem is they were met at the expense of the children's lives.

If one or more ever broke out, moved far away and started their own adult lives, I would be totally interested. The sayingis true, "Freedom isn't free"

Beth Anne said...

My observations of the Duggars is that the parents have too high/unrealistic expectations for their kids in some areas (particularly the girls), and way too LOW expectations in areas of life that would seem "normal" and manageable. On the one hand, they expect their pre-teen and older daughters to bathe, diaper, dress, entertain, and teach the younger siblings, as well as cook for a huge family. They expect all their children to want to and be skilled at learning the violin and to enjoy sharing a room with their toddler brothers and sisters (while mom and dad sleep and procreate in their own suite). On the other hand, they infantilize even their older kids by assuming the boys cannot control their impulses to look at attractive young ladies, the kids cannot be alone with a member of the opposite sex lest an assault occur, and no one could possibly handle sitting next to a green-haired person in a music class. They do not give their kids any credit for learning self-control and managing very natural feelings of attraction to the opposite sex that emerge when one gets older. Yet, they then turn around and expect the kids to get married without ever having been alone with their spouse and suddenly turn into responsible adults and parents. HUH?????

Seriously? said...

"People who have no ethics or dignity are also usually lonely"

But this presumes the amoral person is psychologically balanced, which, I'm guessing, is probably not the typical case.

I doubt that sociopaths (who are remorseless, so, I guess fit the description of 'amoral') are any more lonely than they are genuinely sorry for their unethical behaviors.

On one hand we have humans who are senselessly scrupulous about meaningless concepts, while on the other hand, we have sociopaths, who find a way to rationalize even the most horrific behaviors.

Humans are an interesting breed, and unable to be so simplistically categorized as in Duggarland. Contrary to Gothard and Duggar, it is FAR from a black vs. white life on Planet Earth. The shades of grey in between are infinite.

But don't expect the Duggars to comprehend this reality. They live in Duggar World, where life is built on platitudes.

emm said...

but just think now Michelle doesn't have to worry about her expectations for a clean home or a full nights rest to be too loftly no mattet the Lord's design...her children do all of it...she probably gets more rest than the oldest 4 girls combined.

sandi said...

Yes and poor Zach Bates was so nervous and sweating just being around a girl, and said he had never sat next to one.It wouldn't suprise me if he fainted on his wedding day.
As for Erin,I would love to see her become best friends with a green-haired person,but I'm not holding my breath.

tulip said...

I wonder why they don't even believe in allowing the kids to go to a school like Bob Jones University, where the girls and guys are all separate, there's curfews with bed checks, and they supposedly even walk in separate areas (there have been jokes about pink and blue sidewalks). Whether or not true, there definitely wouldn't be any green hair or exposure to "philosophical" teachings. I believe they do offer a nursing program.

Vera said...

How could they ever become nurses when they are so freaked out/afraid of/feel superior to people who are different from them? When you are a nurse in a professional setting, you don't get to pick and choose which patients you take care of. There is no, "I'm sorry, I cannot take care of that woman over there because her hair is...purple!" Doesn't matter though...those girls are never going to be allowed to be anything but servants for their parents and then when the younger girls are old enough to take over, they will be handed off to a new headship who Jim Bob has picked out/approved.

Maybe when they have birthed enough children they will get to retire to their own suites and let their older children care for the younger ones. That might be the only time they ever get a respite in their entire lives.

Vera said...

One of the things I just don't understand is the weird side hugs between the Duggars and their blessings. Can they seriously be so per*erted as to think that hugging your family members is a turn-on?

Obviously they are far more obsessed with s*x than us heathens are but that just seems so bizarre to me.

Is there another reason for this? Does anyone know?

Wampascat said...

Michelle side hugs the boys so they aren't "defrauded" and so as not to stir up improper thoughts and feelings . Not sure what age the side hug starts, but just another example of sick and twisted Gothard cult teachings.

Wampascat said...

The adult Duggar girls must be so sick and tired of their life by now. Does anyone think there is some rebelling going on? Jana has been sent to some type of indoctrination camp? And Jessa is so rough when it comes to helping the little ones. Jill is the only one who seems content with her lot. Guess she has drunk more of the Gothard Kool-aid than the others.

Seriously? said...

"The adult Duggar girls must be so sick and tired of their life by now. Does anyone think there is some rebelling going on? Jana has been sent to some type of indoctrination camp? And Jessa is so rough when it comes to helping the little ones. Jill is the only one who seems content with her lot. Guess she has drunk more of the Gothard Kool-aid than the others"

Perhaps Jim Bob and his ever-obedient wife should watch the movie, "Virgin Suicides"... Kathleen Turner played a great role - much like Michelle in her zealotry and self righteousness....

mythoughtis said...

yes, I can be disappointed and resentful if my expectations are'nt met. However, that doesn't mean I won't continue to have expectations: I expect my children to go to college and be able to take care of themselves, I expect to save up money to my retirement, I expect my children to be normal teenagers and then to separate from me like normal adults. Jim and Michelle have expectations too, they just aren't reasonable ones.

Willow said...

My Opinion only, but -- My reasons why the Duggars would never send their children to any college, not even the most strict, including Bob Jones University are:
1. They might meet a young man - no matter how holy -- that daddy did not pick (I believe it is a power trip sa much as anything).

2. They would not want anyone to pay for a college education when you know the only place they could actually practice being a nurse, would be with their own family or close Gothard-type friends.

3. Those not living at home obviously aren't helping out the family in any way.

On another issue -- can anyone fill me in on the "camp" they sent Jana to? I hadn't heard about that and am very curious. Did she disobey a rule or something? The only thing I heard (from reading this blog) was that she might be going to work for Gothard headquarters as Priscilla did.

Thanks.

Sharla said...

http://iblp.org/iblp/discipleship/journeytotheheart/details/

Seriously? said...

Thanks for posting the "Journey 2the Heart", Sharla. Very interesting in a pathetic sort of way. The promo is written as if god plans on personally being in attendance and these poor schlumps pay Gothard $$$ for this Hope in a Pew sales pitch. SAD.

I have two words: STOCKHOLM SYNDROME.

tulip said...

And, don't forget, those who attend will have a personal interview with "Mr. Gothard"...too creepy. More advertising for ATI to come, as Josh posted a photo of TLC at Big Sandy filming The Bates for their show (as if we haven't already watched the annual homeschooling conference played out how many times?, on 19 kids) Wonder if Gothard gives them some freebies for promoting his regime on their shows.

sandi said...

>from the link: Thursday will be a day of delighting in the Lord through fasting and seeking Him.

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Looks like they get out of feeding them for a whole day.That must save Gothard and staff a lot of money.

Alberta Rose said...

Wow, Mr. Gothard is better then John and Stasi Eldredge. They segreate men and women by having a Wild At Heart retreat for males 18+ and Captivating retreat for females 18+.

Seriously? said...

Re: Jana's "Finding God" trip to the woods with Gothard:

If there even IS a god, how would it be possible NOT to have found that god after 20something years of JimBob/Michelle/Gothard steady indoctrination to the exclusion of any and all outside concepts, cultures, belief systems?????

I'd say if any of the Duggarettes haven't sufficiently 'found god' after 20 years of Duggar-style seclusion, the Duggar parental units might want to consider a Plan B.

Just sayin'....

sandi said...

>Wonder if Gothard gives them some freebies for promoting his regime on their shows.

----------------------

at the least I wonder if they get free ATI dues.I noticed on the application it's around $650/yr.I don't see how the average young ATI couple,esp. with many children and only one income,can afford that.JMO.

tulip said...

So Gil Bates is paying $600 annually for his family to be a part of ATI, yet they don't have health insurance and borrow money for groceries? And, is the $600 just for the "privilege" of being a member of the club? I'm sure all the materials, wisdom books, etc. are not included. No wonder they're now doing their own show after they said they had no interest.

Seriously? said...

"So Gil Bates is paying $600 annually for his family to be a part of ATI, yet they don't have health insurance and borrow money for groceries? And, is the $600 just for the "privilege" of being a member of the club? I'm sure all the materials, wisdom books, etc. are not included. No wonder they're now doing their own show after they said they had no interest"

Once again it seems Gothard appeals to the lower wattage set.... I find it appalling that parents who borrow (or take) $ from their grown kids while continuing to have more children makes zero sense. To add to this spending the very limited income of Gothardizing your quiver of kids is, well, in a word, dim.

Rudy Tecat said...

I thought that the Journey to the Heart was some sort of singles mixer retreat. Didn't Anna's sister meet her husband there?

Sharla said...

Priscilla met her husband while actually working at Gothard's headquarters operation.

Storylady said...

I don't think (or at least hope not) that single girls at these retreats would be unchaperoned for a "private" interview with Mr. Gothard. I hope Jana meets a wonderful Christian man there and moves far, far away from home to marry him. Same goes for her sisters. Not very realistic, but a girl can still dream. It must be hard for them to be around Anna. She is their age & already married with kids, has miscarred once, and might be on baby #4 already.

Alberta Rose said...

I don't think (or at least hope not) that single girls at these retreats would be unchaperoned for a "private" interview with Mr. Gothard. I hope Jana meets a wonderful Christian man there and moves far, far away from home to marry him. Same goes for her sisters. Not very realistic, but a girl can still dream. It must be hard for them to be around Anna. She is their age & already married with kids, has miscarred once, and might be on baby #4 already.

Given that since the late 70's there are plenty of young women who don't rush into marriage, I don't think the Duggar women should be pressured into finding a mate. Just because some women do believe in getting married at a young age and have babies right away doesn't mean all women should.

Elverna Bradshaw said...

Those girls at Gothard headquarters *are* unchaperoned and *do* have private time with Gothard. Another website run by ex-Quiverfull-ers has harrowing stories of how he groomed girls he took a fancy to. (Held their hands, played "footsie", gave them long gazes into their eyes, etc.) It's a fascinating (and disgusting) read.

Doesn't look right said...

Waiting to get married makes a lot more sense when there is a reason to wait such as getting an education, establishing a career, etc. When one is brought up to be a wife and mother and have a quiverful of kids, waiting around takes on a more sinister or at least less healthy connotation. Just what are the Duggar kids waiting on? Are they really all happy staying children at home or is someone in the household a control freak?

Penny said...

I think the Duggar girls will find husbands in the Gothard realm. Look at the Keller girls,once Susanna marries they will all be married. I was on the David loves Pricilla website. There is a link to Daviid's family website-David's brother Adam married a Valerie Mueller on 3/3/12 and when you go to the Muller website the Muller's son,Joe got married on 3/17/12 and their daughter Julie is getting married in August 2012

londonbridges said...

I also believe that it is okay for the Duggar young women not to be pressured into getting married. A lot of young women are waiting to get married. However, these young women are probably getting a post-secondary degree, and/or working to support themselves. There is nothing wrong, IMHO, with waiting for marriage, but wasting a mind is definitely not okay with me.

Seriously? said...

To a guy SO absolutely obsessed with REPRESSION of normal sexuality (and, OBTW never married), one wonders if it's the Duggar females who need to worry about having an unchaperoned 'interview with Mr. Gothard'.

Just sayin'...

Alberta Rose said...

I also believe that it is okay for the Duggar young women not to be pressured into getting married. A lot of young women are waiting to get married. However, these young women are probably getting a post-secondary degree, and/or working to support themselves. There is nothing wrong, IMHO, with waiting for marriage, but wasting a mind is definitely not okay with me.

It's not okay for me to limit a woman's choices. It never has been. The woman who stays at home to help her parents instead of getting married is making a choice. The woman who gets a degree or a career instead of getting married is making a choice. I think for Michelle and Jim Bob to respect their daughters' choices instead of pressuring them to get married because "it's the Gothard way" or because "it will help the ratings" is to be comended.

Elvira said...

If I truly believed the Duggars allowed their daughters free choice I'd fully support them. But any reading of Gothard literature at all does not support that belief. I can't believe that none of the Duggar daughters wants to do anything besides be unpaid household help for their parents.

londonbridges said...

I would also support the Duggar young women if I believed they were making their own choices. However, unless and until there is proof of their free-will choices, I still have the opinion that they are at home, working and being sister-mommies, because their parents haven't found a suitable mate for them. JMHO

Alberta Rose said...

I've choosen to stay at home during the day and work evenings. People who think ill of Christians assume I'm being a submissive wife and throwing away 15 years of office experience to work at a menial job at a fast food restaurant because that's what my husband told me I should do. I can't convince them otherwise because that's what they want to see. There are people who think my husband gave into a lazy wife who didn't want the hassle of parenting more then one child because God doesn't tell people they should only have one child. The only way to change that thinking is to reveal some extremely personal details of our lives.

It's all about perspective. I see more and more non-Christian youth opting to stay at home or plan to stay at home. That's why it's easy for me to believe the young Duggar women are making a free will choice. Today I discovered the reason why the teachers were saying "Field trip volunteers" instead of "Parent volunteers" is someone has a sibling in grade 3 and in grade 4. She turned 18, got authorized to be a volunteer and took the day off work so her parents didn't have to. My first thought was "I can see the older Duggar girls doing that if their younger siblings were in the public school system".

londonbridges said...

In a perfect world, we all would be able to exercise free-will choices. It appears to me that the Duggar young women may not have been allowed those choices. I may be totally wrong, but after researching Gothard 'doctrine', I don't think so. JMHO.

Willow said...

Thanks to Sharla and all the others who answered and commented on my question about Jana's "camp". I really get it now --- but really wish I didn't, lol. Wonder if boys get sent to "camp" (i.e., brainwashing) as well? I agree with all the other commenters and my heart really goes out to Jana. Congratulations to you Sharla for a healthy gr. baby.

sandi said...

With the Duggars living all things Gothard,I find it safe to say the older girls have no choice right now but to wait it out until Jim Bob approves of a husband for them.I think is confirmed via Jana attending the ATI camp;there is no doubt she will be interviewed by Gothard and no doubt he will inquire of her future plans,which will,of course,be only approved if they meet his criteria.JMO.

tiffches said...

It would be very difficult but I hope at least a couple of the kids are just staying quiet, flyng under the radar, and waiting for their chance to get out. I think it is wrong that each child does not have heir own bank account and that JimBob has it all. Anyway, I would love them to wait and when possible, get away. If they had a chance to get away and leave the state altogether, I would bet there are underground sources to get them away. Then they could get jobs and have legal aid contact the show for their cut of the money. As sad as it would be not to see your family, it is worse not to have a life at all and to raise another person's children.. like their moms.

Vera said...

There is a huge difference between the young Duggar women CHOOSING to stay home indefinitely and staying home out of FEAR or because DADDY/GOTHARD SAID SO. HUGE!

If the young Duggar women were choosing to stay home that would be great but it is much more likely, based on what I have read about Gothard, that they really don't have a choice in the matter. Besides, the way they have been raised, it is very possible that they would be too afraid to anyway...unless, of course, they were leaving home to move in with their new headship, their prince, their husband that is Daddy/Gothard sanctioned.

Shoka's Understudy said...

I find it heartbreaking that a girl who is almost 23?, graduating from the dining room table at 16 and working as a nanny to her siblings, cleaning the house like a maid, babysitting her siblings like a babysitter, all unpaid while working on the show 19 kids and counting.

Then not able to go to college to be whatever you wanted to be. Have to stand there and play a violin with all of your brothers and sisters, go to children's zoos and not able to date.

Then having to go across the country to have an private interview with a sick, twisted unmarried leader of the Gothard pack. Will he stare a long time into her eyes? Play footsie?

If that behavior is Gothard sanctioned, it will be Duggar approved.

I feel so sorry for the girls. Also, I thought it was strange that when the Duggars were in Ireland with the hogs and they were doing the SUEY! The Arkansas cheer for the Arkansas Razorbacks, because they are so ANTI-SPORT. Why couldn't the Duggar boys be working toward playing for Arkansas?

Oh, the humanity!

Beth Anne said...

Re: Jana going to children's zoos...

At 22, I imagine she is only going because mom and dad expect the family to be together and, of course, the sister mommies couldn't POSSIBLY expect the two parents to keep a watch over all those children themselves! (Though they are quick to point out how they conceived and delivered every one of them!).

If you read sites like "No Longer Quivering," there's some disturbing testimony about the Gothard-approved mandate of the family doing everything together at all times, regardless of the kids' ages or individual interests. The Duggars and like-minded families may present a rosy picture of family togetherness, but others have testified that it is more about control and insularity --- interacting with those outside the family circle has an evil connotation, unless the other families are Gothard followers. It's like other people have cooties, but of course the situation is much more serious than that. I think many of these adult children are scared to death of the big, wide world despite their parent's claims about how well educated the kids are.

RJWife said...

It's the old phrase,"One of us! One of us!" where they want them to look, act, talk, dress, etc the same, essentially be a factory model, have no thoughts or personalities of there own, etc. it's very sad. From day one, these kids never really (unless they completly leave and abandon them) there own life, thoughts, personalities, likes, interests, etc. I cannot imagine doing that to my own child, or imagine being raised that way and forced to, "drink the kool aid."

RJWife said...

Wow, that would roughly be 15,000 a year in fees if you included Josh, Anna, and there two kids! That's basically buying a new car in fees each year!

imaamy said...

I looked at the pics just now. Anna looks different! I think her hair is parted differently and the angle of the shot? Not bad even in horizontal stripes. Pretty sure she is not pregnant, surprisingly.

imaamy said...

Oh and someone wrote "you have an amazing life" over a pic of a watermelon carved like a hog??? Yeah that is truly...incredible!