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2. No online petitions.
3. Do not be rude about the children or call them names. Commenting on the behaviour that we have seen is acceptable, but no name calling.
4. Do not refer to calling CPS or use the term child abuse unless we something that actually is abusive.
5. Watch profanity.
6. Don't tell the moderators how to run the blog.
7. Be careful about boards on boards and please don't discuss or provide links to other Duggar boards.
8. No diagnosing mental/medical conditions.
9. No posting addresses.
10. Along with not being rude don't tell other people how to think, act, or behave - don't try to tell other people what to do or not do.
11. No using the kids' names or moderators' as your screen name.
12. Comments including "I'm sure you won't print this" will never be printed.
13. No unsolicited recaps. We are not recapping the Duggar shows.
14. The administrators are not able to verify the identity of people who comment here. Believe what you choose to believe.
15. Please use proper grammar, spelling, capitalizations and punctuations in your comments. No instant message type speaking.
16. Please refrain from beating the dead horses such as Josh's years ago expressed interest in law school. If the Duggars have moved on, so should we.
361 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 361 of 361Ran into a family with nine children a few weeks ago at an event that I was covering -- eight girls, one boy. It was immediately apparent that this family followed the Quiverfill movement, and in fact, after talking to the parents, they indeed were part of Quiverfill and shared values similar to the Duggars.
The mother had not seen the Duggars' TLC show (no TV) but had read "20 And Counting." Unlike Jim Bob and Gil Bates, who have multiple sources of income to support their very large broods, this family was struggling financially. The kids told me their dad had been laid off.
The children were home-schooled; the girls wore skirts and coulottes. I do have to say that these were the sweetest children, very innocent and much unexposed to all the media crap that corrupts other children, despite parents' good intentions.
We talked a long time about the chickens the family was raising, the girls' sewing and family's 4H projects. The kids loved animals and delighted in my dog. I wouldn't mind living next door to this family considering the rotten neighbors I have now.
Still, families like this watch the Duggars or see them speak in events, and have large, constantly expanding families and struggle with never-ending financial hardship. I've been unemployed for a year, but I'd step aside and let this dad get a job before me to support his family. This family was hurting.
JB and M should re-think public school for those 6 youngest boys ... The boys would use up some of that extra energy by being in a new environment ... and an education lead by another adult, not mom/sister. The added quiet time would give Michelle the chance to mother those 4 little girls ... AND, it would give Jana, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger a chance to have a break as well ...
I agree that the six little boys should be in school, as well as Josiah and Joy Anna. Baby Josie needs an environment of calm. My only concern would be the kids bringing home viruses and germs from school, yet the Duggar kids seem to come down with the latest virus sweeping the town.
I did some online searching and there's a Christian school nearby the Duggars' home, Shiloh Christian School (which Jim Bob attended). Shiloh was named the best private school in Arkansas. It's pricey, but then there are breaks for additional siblings enrolled. I'm sure that Shiloh would be delighted to work out a deal with the Duggars for the added publicity. The earnings the Duggars get from two of their TLC shows ought to cover the costs.
Then again, there's always public school which would cost nothing, and the school Michelle, the older girls and Josiah visited in a ep last year looked very nice to me. I'm a proud product of public school education and always find it a bit insulting when the JB & Michelle imply that their children would be corrupted by the other children's secular ways.
JB and Michelle have a severely ill child on their hands. Time to re-think routines and thought- processes and theories so that Josie can achieve health.
I hope the older girls, and John-David and Joseph for that matter, are given the opportunity to at least attend community college. Cousin Amy has a foot in both the secular and Christian worlds, yet seems to have retained wholesome values and optimism without losing her faith. Hopefully, the older kids are taking classes from online university.
I'm beginning to wonder if Michelle has some strange scarring or other skin discoloration around her chest, and that's why she's so careful that not an inch of it been seen. Because if you're willing to show your belly during a C-section, that's mama skin right there being seen!
I think if JB and Michelle were smart, they would stop doing this show as soon as their current contract expires. The longer they are on television regularly, the more they receive negative commentary. Instead of winning over converts, I think they're actually getting more and more detractors. But I know they don't pay attention and so it will probably come as a bit of a surprise to them when, one day, TLC drops their show "out of the blue" for a new, less known family who hasn't irritated over half the population already.
I just caught up on episodes over the last two weeks - I thought it might be better to discuss this in the general discussion. I had an interesting thought about Josh's announcement about hiring an employee to spend more time at the car lot so Josh can spend more time with his family.
It seems that Josh has learned from Jim bob's example how to be the essential capitalist: most people work outside of the home so they can receive a wage and pay for their costs of living through their work. Like Jim Bob's and the family's investments in commercial property, both JB and Josh are now in the position to earn a living NOT by their own work, but rather through what they own.
Through wise investments and 'looking out' for family, the Duggars have set themselves up very well as property and business owners, so that they can pay someone else to do to the labour (for pay, or free like John David and Joseph), while they reap the benefits based purely on their access to capital, land and business ownership.
Unfortunately, most of us won't know this kind of comfort. Must be nice to be in your early 20s like Josh and start to cut back on work, paying others to do the stuff you don't want to do or that's not worth the sacrifice of family time.
Regarding Josh's comments about hiring someone to help out at the car lot so he can spend more time with his family, doesn't this contradict with a recent episode where Josh stated, "we have a used car lot, so sometimes we have money and sometimes we don't".
Hate to burst your bubble there, Josh, but I doubt you'll find a dependable trustworthy employee to work at the car lot unless you're willing to pay them. And how can you pay them if it's one of those times when you don't have money ?
Josh's desire to spend more time with the family is double-talk for "I'm finding out that getting up in the morning is just too hard".
On the topic of the Duggars TMI, don't forget the all-time classic, the "talk" about sex that JimBob had with Josh right before Josh's wedding. Prime=time wholesome family viewing, right? Nothing is private for these people.
Funniest quote ever from JimBob Duggar (episode where they visit the Christian Film Festival):
"Hollywood makes a lot of movies with sexual content......."
Um, JimBob, have you watched your own show lately? It's full of sexual content !
I guess it's just the way I was raised that I sort of turn up my nose at people who don't have the fortitude to work hard for their success. Josh just seems like he wants to coast along on his father's coattails, thinks he can be on easy street if he only purchases a few commercial properties and rents them out.
However, I'm curious -- what bank will loan him money to purchase commercial real estate? Is he going to be able to rent out that property in an amount that will not only cover the mortgage but then some? Is the Arkansas commercial real estate market booming or doing well? Because where I live, the commercial market has been hard hit. Businesses folding, empty office space everywhere you look (and I mean everywhere). It's a tenants' market right now. That is cyclical and I agree that wise investing in real estate is almost always a good idea. But along with owning property, you must then purchase some general liability insurance, provide your tenants with upkeep and maintenance, deal with potential lawsuits if someone trips and falls on the premises, or with tenants who fall behind on the rent, etc. It's not just easy money most of the time.
However, if he can get in the market now, buy a small commercial building with tenants already in place, maybe he could make a decent profit when the real estate market bounces back a little bit.
Still, I think he's just a lazy guy and doesn't really want to work hard at anything.
However, I'm curious -- what bank will loan him money to purchase commercial real estate? Is he going to be able to rent out that property in an amount that will not only cover the mortgage but then some?
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The Duggars win 75% of the battle right there. They pay CASH for their properties up front or they don't buy them. If you don't HAVE a mortgage everything over maintenance is gravy. If all you need is 200 a month in maintenance and ONE renter pays you 450 a month the rest of the building can stay empty and it isn't going to hurt you as much.
The tenants pay for insurance if you set up the leases right and an umbrella policy on each property covers the rest. Depending on the property they also pay their utilities as well.
As you said property is going begging, those with money are buying them left and right at steals. The smart ones are betting the economy WILL come back sooner or later and they have the patience to wait.
Josh notwithstanding the idea itself is solid.
If the middle Duggar boys are indeed as wild and uncontrolled as people here say, what good would it do to put them in school all day? A lot of people take their energetic and active boys OUT of school and homeschool them simply because traditional school does not accommodate that level of activity.
The idea should be to lessen the amount of chaos and confusion in the household, not multiply it.
JBD = a 'producer'? That's rich. Something tells me this was a crumb tossed to JBD's ego to help sweeten the deal of selling his family's privacy - a title with no teeth but made JBD feel important.
Sad.
Little Josie is precious. God bless her.
Also, Josh and Anna's baby is adorable. I think Anna looked great in the show last night too, but I'm not entirely sold on her. I'm still thinking of how "snobby" she acted in that Ethiopian restaurant. Kinda gives a hint to true character if you ask me. But alas, she's still so very young with so much to learn ... Time will tell.
~Jasmine
I have two questions-
Yeah if josh wants to buy property to rent. Where is he going to get the money to buy it? He already said that sometimes they have money and sometimes they don't. It seems that he will need some help, from a bank even if it is the bank of Duggar
and
It's not really a question but a comment. Anna might not be a snob but just not comfortable around different cultures. IMHO the Duggars and families similar to them don't expose their children to outside influences, so that might have been the first time that Anna had been exposed to a culture and people so different from her and just didn't know what to do.
I am a very outgoing person but when around people I am not familiar with I will sit back and evaluate the situation for a while until I become comfortable and see where and how to become a part of what's gonna on/
Iliketheduggars said...
If the middle Duggar boys are indeed as wild and uncontrolled as people here say, what good would it do to put them in school all day? A lot of people take their energetic and active boys OUT of school and homeschool them simply because traditional school does not accommodate that level of activity.
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Actually, having a good solid routine is often very beneficial for children and actually helps them focus more and redirect their energy. In addition, going from one lesson to another, with real interaction with a teacher plus fellow students your own age, is very stimulating (to the brain).
Further, there is recess, where the children can play under the supervision of playground monitors.
My son has always been high energy. His dad even thought he might be borderline ADD at one time (which he was NOT). Anyway, he has always done very well in school and believe me, the structure and routine are a big part of that.
I think the Duggar children would probably thrive in a school environment like the Christian school someone else described. Often, children learn how to behave by seeing good behavior modeled by others. A couple trips to the principal's office (which is embarrassing and something most kids want to avoid) usually does the trick of helping redirect some of that misbehavior too.
I don't think the Duggars would even consider a private Christian school for their children, but I sure wish they would. With a seriously needy preemie baby who is not doing so well, why not consider placing the children in a school situation, if only for half a school year? Or do the Duggars think that even a Christian school environment is a breeding ground for sin and danger? How fearful are they of even a fairly controlled environment like that? JimBob went there and I bet he thinks he turned out A-okay.
Cyn said:
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The Duggars win 75% of the battle right there. They pay CASH for their properties up front or they don't buy them. If you don't HAVE a mortgage everything over maintenance is gravy. If all you need is 200 a month in maintenance and ONE renter pays you 450 a month the rest of the building can stay empty and it isn't going to hurt you as much.
* * *
Yes, I agree Mr and Mrs. D could pay cash up front. But Josh? Didn't he indicate recently that some slow months, the money is lean? I mean, does he have $75K or $100K sitting around in savings? I know people on this board won't be able to answer that question any more than I can, but somehow I doubt he does.
The other thing that investors do, even when they have the cash on hand, is not pay the full purchase price in cash, because then their assets are less liquid. On the strength of having cash on hand, they get a loan, try to negotiate good terms, etc. Then they make payments, but if a sudden need for cash arises, they have liquid assets instead of having to try to unload a piece of property that may or may not sell quickly enough.
I am not a close watcher of the show, but I just don't recall Josh working long and hard hours and packing away the dollars to the tune of $50K, $75K or $100K. I mean, from selling used cars, part time? Plus, he must have a mortgage on that house he and Anna are living in, unless he paid cash for that. And if he did pay cash for that, wouldn't that have left him back at square one, needing to save up again for a commercial property.
So while I think being able to save up to pay 75% in cash is a great idea, Josh hasn't had time (or a high enough paying job/business) to do so.
Sorry to post several times in a row, but I just noticed on another thread that Josh's car lot is supposedly open from 10 - 6, Monday through Friday. First of all, that's banker's hours and even banks are open earlier than that, and on Saturdays too!
I've purchased three cars from lots in my life: First one was on a Saturday afternoon; second one I went shopping after work on a week-night, so certainly after 6 p.m. Third one was another week-end purchase. Because that's when I have time to go shopping for cars, not during my lunch hour.
Yes, some people work swing shifts, or night shifts, or I guess don't have jobs, so they are free to look at used cars during Josh's business hours. But not to be open on Saturday? What kind of small business man purposely is closed on what could potentially be his best-selling day of the week?
Cyn said...
you don't HAVE a mortgage everything over maintenance is gravy. If all you need is 200 a month in maintenance and ONE renter pays you 450 a month the rest of the building can stay empty and it isn't going to hurt you as much.
The tenants pay for insurance if you set up the leases right and an umbrella policy on each property covers the rest. Depending on the property they also pay their utilities as well.
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Not to argue with you Cyn, your comments are always well thouht out and researched.
Property cannot take care if it self, what if an air conditioner needs to be replaced or the roof leaks? These are things that the owner pays for.
Then there is landscaping and maintenance of the parking lot. These are all big expenses and $200.00 a month will not cover these.
I have a friend who has several commercial properties and in the last month two ac units went out and someone shot out the windows in another building. Even if you have an umbrella policy you still have to pay the deductible.
And JB did not get this way over night, he worked his tail off, something that Josh does not appear to want to do.
Well said. The hours that the car lot are said to be open are not exactly attracting major sales. Unless the carlot is being run as a business investment or loss ....why oh why would you not want to attract the foot traffic out there in these economic times??
Being open Tues to Sat with more reasonable hours makes more sense IMO.
re:Josh and money -- Sure, he probably has tons saved. TLC is paying him nicely, he has no mortgage on his house -- does he pay rent to his parents or not? -- the baby nurses so no costs for forumla, they buy lots of their stuff used, he doesn't have his own costs for car payments, etc. I'm sure he's been socking it away.
Any news on how Josie is doing? Has she been released from the hospital?
Everyone's been talking about how long it will be until Michelle gets pregnant again, but I think Anna will be soon, probably. Her baby is already six months old. . .
Josh is not earning his livelihood or supporting his family on that used car lot of old clunkers.
He is making a fine living by selling his young wife and daughter's privacy to TLC. I cannot imagine for a second that Mr. and Mrs. Keller ever imagined that their modest daughter would be shown birthing her first child on national television. After all, Anna was so sheltered that she had never even had five minutes alone with her husband-to-be until their marital evening. And now she's got her knees showing, legs spread apart, in the most private and intimate of family moments...on national tv?
This is how Josh is making a living. And he should be ashamed of himself. It isn't an honest man's work, but compromising the family values, all for the almighty dollar.
For shame, Josh!
"But not to be open on Saturday? What kind of small business man purposely is closed on what could potentially be his best-selling day of the week?"
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It's been discussed on another thread that the Duggars mentioned somewhere (their book, maybe?) that they also observe Saturday as a sabbath and believe it should be a family day. I believe this is where Josh got started with the idea of not working on Saturdays.
So while I think being able to save up to pay 75% in cash is a great idea, Josh hasn't had time (or a high enough paying job/business) to do so.
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You misunderstood me, I meant they win 75% of the battles most investors have. And they win those battles by only paying 100% down on properties.
As for the car lot doing or not doing good I have my own theories on that as well...
Would buyers come in if Josh said in the middle of a down economy that business was booming, or had bragged about how much money he was making??? I don't think he's got hundreds of thousands socked away, but I would bet he has the 75-100K the other poster suggested.
The house Josh lives in he either paid cash in full for from his grandfather, or it was given to him. I do NOT know exactly which only that Josh said something about getting it off his grandfather. It had been an old rental, and they had to do serious repairs on it before they even moved in, and it was not finished when they moved in, but was at least structurally sound. (trim work and other things still needed to be done)
If they make 100K a year, which they COULD do, and live on 20K (because they only having daily living expenses) that's 80K a year for savings. BTW to make 100K a year he only has to clear 3K on 35 cars for the entire year. Now he may not clear 3k per car, but on average if he sells one car a week possibly 2 cars would end up making him enough money even with his strange hours. They own the lot, and the business I do believe so there is no mortgage or rent for them to have to cover either.
Dave Ramsey, and Jim Sammons, have been teaching this exact way of doing business for over 20 years. Josh has been listening to and or watching the Sammons Seminars since he was a small child, he's not going to have mortgages on any property, nor is he going to have credit cards and all the rest.
Try it as an experiment some night, gather up all your monthly payments to everybody, total them up, then look what the numbers say if you ONLY had the utilities and food and savings to pay for or fund. How much more money could you have at the end of every month, or year. This is how the Duggars' the Bates', and millions of Dave Ramsey fans live.
It's Earth Day. Hey, MaDuggar, how about adding Ecology 101 to the curriculum at The School of the Dining Room Table?
Might want to ask Josh to turn off his Xmas lights now, too, since Xmas is a full 8 months away.
Since you have brought 19 kids onto the planet, how about raising their awareness about ecology?
Josh has the TLC money to underlie whatever he "makes" from the car lot. Plus he has the video "business," which appears to be TLC "hiring" his co. to film things like Mackynzie's birth. The house was "bought" from his grandparents at what I would guess was a VERY minimal price, if not just given to him.
Yeah, I'm using a lot of "air quotes." LOL...That's because this show is so "real."
So I wouldn't be surprised if Josh could, in fact, pay cash for another investment or afford to pay an employee. But it isn't because he's a savvy, hard-working businessman. It's because he's one darn lucky layabout. When the TLC money goes away, life will be very, very different. Hope he's saving some of it.
Then there is landscaping and maintenance of the parking lot. These are all big expenses and $200.00 a month will not cover these.
I have a friend who has several commercial properties and in the last month two ac units went out and someone shot out the windows in another building. Even if you have an umbrella policy you still have to pay the deductible.
And JB did not get this way over night, he worked his tail off, something that Josh does not appear to want to do.
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Can I start off with YES I THINK JOSH IS A LAZY BUM. LOL there now I feel better.
But the concepts he's touting do actually work, he's just a LOUSY spokesperson for the job.
I used lower numbers because it made it simpler for the math. If he takes 1/3 of each payment and puts it into a 'retained earnings' account, he will have the maintenance and other issues covered, was my point.
The umbrella policy is for being sued for different issues.
I did the calculations a few years back, and what I came up with is the Commercial Property the Duggars had, that used to be a chicken place, should bring in roughly 10k a month in rental income. I used the square footage (it was posted on one of the blurbs) then called local u-store it type places for rates, so I may be low with the numbers as I assume commercial storage is higher.
For ease of discussion though I'm going to use the 10K. If he takes 3k a month and puts it in retained earnings he'll have 24K at the end of that one year. Surely that will replace a roof every 15-20 years, and an AC unit every 6-10 years won't it? Now what I have seen most doing is they set a limit on what amount they want in 'retained earnings' and once they reach that goal the extra money comes home to them, or goes to save to buy the next building and start the process over again.
Please I may have the vocab wrong, or the percentages wrong and I freely admit to it, but the CONCEPT works, if you do it slowly and correctly. The Duggars and Dave Ramsey fans live by the one motto "the borrower is slave to the lender"...
PS I've seen the landscaping at their commercial businesses, a coat of paint on the building every 10 years and grade and level out the dirt in front of the buildings, and keep the chain fence in repair. :P OTHERS would have higher maintenance, but not that chicken place.
Just a question about putting the kids in school... So what do they do for "peace and calm" the other 12-16 hours during the day, or the 4-5 kids that are under school age.
My only thought was it would be MORE stressful at this time to try sticking a large group of kids in a school, buying their materials, (uniforms if necessary), getting them back and forth to school, working with them on their different assignments, parent teacher conferences.....
It's not like they can just sign them up drop them off and go back to Josie, it would take MORE work in the short term for very little, if any benefit to Josie. School has less than a month for most places, a little over a month in others to the end of the year.
By next fall they may have other plans in place for the schooling who knows. But right now trying to get 10 children or more out the door every morning "before god gets up", isn't going to help the stress level or the noise level in that house, not when the loudest and most rambunctious of the bunch aren't even going to school.
Cyn said:
My only thought was it would be MORE stressful at this time to try sticking a large group of kids in a school, buying their materials, (uniforms if necessary), getting them back and forth to school, working with them on their different assignments, parent teacher conferences.....
It's not like they can just sign them up drop them off and go back to Josie, it would take MORE work in the short term for very little, if any benefit to Josie. School has less than a month for most places, a little over a month in others to the end of the year.
* * *
I agree, it would require a certain degree of organizational skills and of course, a possible investment in school uniforms. I think the Duggars could probably afford that, but then again -- if they are facing co-payments for the time little Josie has been hospitalized, perhaps their finances are actually feeling a pinch. I summarize medical records frequently, so I know that hospital stays are extremely expensive. Add to that the fact that Josie is in NICU, well, triple the cost at least. I don't care what kind of gold-plated insurance policy anyone might have, no health policy pays 100%. At best, the insurance is picking up a full 80% with the Duggars paying the other 20% (at best). If the cost is now running into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, or even approaching $1 million, well, we can all do the math on that one.
But back to getting the children into school, in order to do the best for all of the children. The older girls already take care of the children, and they drive. They could and would be the ones who would get the children up, dressed, fed and taken to school. They would also be the ones who would help them with homework. But what a blessing to the older girls to have a block of time every day that they could devote to other things besides taking care of their siblings.
I think JimBob and Michelle take their older girls too much for granted. Yes, all the family should pitch in, especially in time of need. But also, they need down time and fun time to be young ladies, go shopping, visit with friends, take a class that isn't biblical in nature (an art class, music class, or anything that catches their interest, just for the pure fun of it).
By putting the children in school, that would allow Michelle and JB a time in which they could offer Josie a very quiet atmosphere five days a week. I imagine there is quite a bit that Josie will require but most of all, a soothing atmosphere so her little body can rest, thrive and grow.
Ah well - it's a pipe dream because they'll never do it. But they should.
As to how much Josh receives from TLC, that's certainly a well kept bit of information. I'm not sure we've ever discussed how much the Duggars are paid. We have wondered if the children, upon reaching age 18, get paid directly for the participation. All these things I am very curious about, and hope that at least the adult children do get recompensed.
Back to Josh and Anna, or cousin Amy, or Grandma -- when they appear in an episode, we presume that they get paid some amount of money. Let's say that is the case. Maybe he and Anna make $50K/year from TLC. That used car lot -- seriously, it looks like a very limited form of income. I doubt he clears $3K per used car. He'd be lucky to clear $1K on some of those "beauties." If he sells 4 cars a month, that's only $4 to $5K, x 12 = $60K. Subtract taxes, subtract the SS and Medicare amounts he must pay as a self-employed individual (both employer and employee portion), subtract insurance for his business, telephone, electricity, office supplies, and now, paying a wage to an employee.
If he clears $35,000 per year, he's doing great.
Now subtract a health policy that covers himself, wife and child. Subtract home insurance, his own personal car insurance, the cost to feed a family and clothe them, electric bills, garbage bills, water, telephone, cable, gasoline. Even if you have no debt, you still have the usual expenses of every day living.
He is lucky to have the TLC money, whatever it is, but he and Anna aren't likely to have their own show on TLC - he's too pudgy, balding and boring; she's nice but rather bland; and there are millions of cute babies out there, so Mac alone won't sell a show.
I'll be very curious to check in now and again, after TLC is gone, to see exactly how this young man is going to be successful and maintain a way of life he's become accustomed to.
I don't think Josh sells anywhere close to 35 of those clunkers a year. Not even close. I think he'd be lucky to sell 15, and most of those cars look like pure junk, and they're overpriced too.
Josh is making his living selling his family's privacy, not by selling clunker cars.
"It's not like they can just sign them up drop them off and go back to Josie, it would take MORE work in the short term for very little, if any benefit to Josie. School has less than a month for most places, a little over a month in others to the end of the year."
Lots of good points! It certainly wouldn't make sense to put them in a school right at the end of a term.
By Sept Josie will be eight months chronologically and four or five months if you consider the prematurity. If she has no ongoing major problems she should be just fine. Look at little Rebecca on Table for 12. She has about as severe a case of cerebral palsy as can be found and has done very well in a houseful of noisy children including what must have been five other noisy infants. As with that family the Duggars older children will help and the toddlers will be taught that Josie isn't a doll to play with.
They certainly can't be expected to send the rest of the family away for the entire summer. If Josie is kept up in the nursery until she is less fragile an someone stays with her at all times they will do just fine. It will just be another "jurisdiction" to add on as Michelle can't stay in a room with her 24 hours a day, nor would she be expected to in any other family; in fact she would be criticized if she did indeed neglect the rest of her children to that extent!
As I recall Josh said that his cars are listed on a web site. So maybe he has more contact with his customers by having appointments from those who use his website and inquire by phone? Most of his traffic may not be those driving by but those who scan the web.
Have any of you checked his web site? If so let me know what it is as I would like to check out his cars to get an idea of his inventory and it may be a way to get a real idea of how well he is doing rather than speculating.
I only know that on Saturdays they usually do volenteer work. I never heard of them using the Saturday as a sabeth.
The website for Champion Motorcars is http://www.championnwa.com/index.htm
A lot of these suggestions are asking the Duggars to completely change their value system and that seems a bit unfair. Their belief in homeschooling is Bible-based "train your children up" and they take that literally. That is why they home-school. They have nothing against public or private schools and they've said that on camera. They have respect for the public school Michelle attended and the private school Jim Bob attended, but they have said they feel called by G-d to train their children, and that's what they are doing by home-schooling.
As for Saturday as the Sabbath, that is also something they take from the Bible--and yes, it was from their book. They keep it as their family day. In the book, Michelle talks of going on bike rides together, picnics, and things like that--just spending time together as a family. That is likely why Josh has kept his business closed on Saturdays, following his parents' example.
In their book the Duggars said they had, through Bible study come to the conclusion they should be keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath. They then said they deep the Sabbath at home with their family on Saturday and then join fellow worshippers for Sunday worship.
For those wondering about Josh's used car lot. It's called Champion Motorcars. Interestingly, at the bottom of the home page, there is a link to Huck PAC (Mike Huckabee?). I'm not sure that including a political link on a business page is the wisest business move, but hey, when you own your own business, you can make these decisions. In conservative Arkansas, it probably doesn't hurt him like it might somewhere more progressive.
The newest car listed out of 19 is a 2004 Ford F450 (used ambulance). I imagine only a limited number of people would be interested in that vehicle. He does have a 2003 VW New Beetle that looks good and appears to be fairly listed for about $7,700.
He has a 2000 Cadillac Escalade with nearly 160K miles.
Most of his cars are older than 2004, have high miles, and thus their asking price is generally between $2,500 up to $6,000 or $7,000. He probably gets some at auction, some as trade-ins, others from private sellers and does a bit of clean up.
I don't think we could say he averages $3K profit per vehicle sold, based on current inventory. On some cars he may make that much, but on most, it would be less.
The website itself is moderately good. The home page and the inventory page have had the most attention. Other parts are "still under construction." The hours are clearly posted as M-F, 10:00 to 6:00.
BTW, for anyone who hasn't ever seen a glimpse of behind the scenes of how this show is filmed, there is a "Media" link on Josh and Anna's website that has a clip of them getting ready to do The Today Show 3 days after their baby was born. You can see how many crew are needed, the lights, the fact that it's done very early in the morning (still dark outside), the sleepy Duggar kids rubbing their eyes as they come in from the dark to the very bright home.
It gives the average viewer somewhat of an idea of just how much is involved in this process. JB says the family has done 28 interviews in that week alone! This is a real job for all of them, not just an unobtrusive camera following them around their every day lives.
The whole reason Michelle pumped all that breastmilk (displayed for the world to see) is so that she can go off to receive her faux Mother-of-the-Year award and leave Josie at home with Grandma Duggar or the sister-moms, Jana & Jill.
Remember Michelle's comment on the day Josie was released from the hospital....."there will be lots of helpers". You bet there will.
I don't know about the Duggars personally, but others of same mindedness, do not want to send their children to any school, because of the chance of their being "polluted" by beliefs other than their own. One mother that I knew said, "a teacher could either purposefully or by accident 'leak' some thoughts that would be contrary to their beliefs. She would especially be careful that her children not be exposed to Jewish teachers. I guess she thought there would be way too much "leakage" there. I thought she held some strange thoughts at the time, but the more I read about Gothard, the more I realize that people like the Duggars must homeschool their children. They must protect them from any idea or opinion contrary to their own.
My suggestion for the summer, is the older boys, who seemingly don't really do too much, organize a "boot/sports/scout camp" for the little guys. Lots of sports, games, camping including building fires, cooking, playing warriors, climbing ropes and rocks. They have 20 acres, they could take the noise away from the house. Keep those little ones busy. If the older boys do not have the skills, bring in someone who does, to guide the troops. The oldergirls, when not tending house, cooking and childcare could do the same, age appropriate activities, for the little girls. As we have seen over and over, the children have no way to get rid of excess energy, other than beating each other up and swinging from the bannisters. Maybe Ma could take up the slack in the homemaking chores while the older girls keep the younger ones busy. Then the older girls could take a break while the little ones are napping. The older boys don't need a break, it looks like they have been on one all their lives.
Maybe Pa could spend some of his money to build a swimming pool. Then everyone (sex separated of course) could wear themselves out and become physically fit at the same time by swimming and diving.
To the poster who thought this was a Duggar hating board, it is not. I don't hate the Duggars, I just want the older children, especially the girls to learn more about life, before they are saddled with a house full of kids and a marriage to a "father know all."
I have seen many people on here speculate about why the Duggars, Bates and others do the whole "sideways" hug thing, and I had a thought. Do you think that it could be because when two people do a straight on "regular" hug private area's touch? Think about it, a girl hugs a guy and her boobs would touch his chest, same for other areas farther south. I dont' know, just throwing it out there.
He runs the car dealership the same way his father did, some of the cars he owns other cars on his lot he is selling for individuals in the area.
For my fictional math all he had to sell was 35 cars at 3K profit, what seems to have been missed is it was 35 in a year, that's less than one a week. If he sells 2 a week, at half the 3K number I came up with, he still makes over 100,000. Some cars he makes that on others he may not. But even being open weird hours, and half awake surely some one can sell 1-2 cars in a WEEK???
I just looked at Josh's dealership website and it actually is pretty good. I was expecting it to be cruddy but it's not. The inventory page works well and has a lot of details. The prices on the cars look reasonable for what they are. I don't see anything to complain about there.
I agree that the website for Josh's used car lot is fine. Based on the current inventory and prices, I can see why some months are quite lean for he and Anna, as I imagine the profit margin on some of those older cars isn't very much. I was somewhat surprised to see that the newest car was six years old. I wonder why he doesn't have anything newer than a 2004?
Cyn said...
Some cars he makes that on others he may not. But even being open weird hours, and half awake surely some one can sell 1-2 cars in a WEEK???
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In the Springdale area there are over 200 USED car lots.
So if you are looking for a car when you get off work and you come to Josh's lot and it's closed are you going to want to come back?
Even if he has a car that you really want? Surely one of the other 200 car lots would have that same car.
Who is his customer base? People who don't work work? People who work night shift?
You normally don't buy a car during your lunch hour.
I wonder if he sells a car or two a month.
These are links to very interesting articles on Bill Gothard. The bottom one explains a bit that he prefers wisdom over knowledge, which is why JB and MD don't put a lot of emphasis on learning.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/gothard/gothard2.html
http://www.orlandoweekly.com/features/story.asp?id=1159
I sincerely doubt, with that inventory, that Josh sells 1-2 cars A WEEK. It would be a stretch for him to sell 1-2 cars a month. He has a bunch of junker clunkers, and most of them are not THAT cheap for such high mileage old cars. Buying used is awesome, but most peple don't want to buy a car that already has 160,000 miles on it, particularly for several thousand dollars.
So nah, Josh isn't selling all that much, particularly with those hours he keeps.
Remember the soap operas from years back? Difference is these are real live people but still scripted. The important thing is if the children are shown lets see they are paid and the money secure. I notice some critics. This is what happens when people lay their lives open for all to see. With the help of some editing.
I would think that people who buy cars from Josh are not ones who would typically buy over the web.
I think he maybe wants to branch out and try another business. Nothing wrong with that.
~ Jasmine
Concerning the party who sent some items and a gift card to the Duggars for Josie, I feel badly too that they sent the package back. I considered making their last baby a dress as I love to design and make dresses for babies, however I did not know if it would be accepted by them. I am now glad I did not do it but instead made outfits for other babies and donated them.
I think perhpas they turn down all of the gifts because they do not want to be accused of using their fame for getting items from the public. They get enough criticism as it is so I think they are very careful in what they receive. Also they may feel another party less fortunate may need the gifts more than they after all they are self supporting and have income from TLC.
"Bill Gothard: The bottom one explains a bit that he prefers wisdom over knowledge."
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IMO, True wisdom would SEEK knowledge, not relegate to a low place on the agenda.
Seems Gothard prefers the very thing his views do not demonstrate.
I never saw anything about someone sending a package and having it returned, but that's interesting. I would agree that maybe they don't want to be accused of taking hand-outs, but I think there could be more to it, too. The Duggars are now celebrities, and they have many critics. They probably also get a lot of packages. They don't know what's in those packages. For all they know, someone could be sending them a bomb or some anthrax. This is why I wondered about JB making their mailing address public knowledge in the first place. Probably wasn't a good idea, and I bet they're starting to realize that now. It's too bad for those who do want to send them something nice. Wish they hadn't put it up there in the first place - it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle.
Anonymous said...
In their book the Duggars said they had, through Bible study come to the conclusion they should be keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath. They then said they deep the Sabbath at home with their family on Saturday and then join fellow worshippers for Sunday worship.
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I kind of get that, but seriously, if running a car lot is your livelihood, it would make sense to pick one or the other. This seems to me like another example of "cherry-picking." Either Saturday is the Sabbath, or Sunday is.
If they truly believe Saturday is the god-ordained Sabbath, they can keep the car lot open Sun-Fri.
I agree with the other posters who say that the car lot hours are ridiculous. I would NEVER buy a car from a place with those kinds of hours, it would be far too impractical and in my opinion it demonstrates a lack of commitment to customer service. If nothing else, they could do 12-8 instead of 10-6, to be more accommodating to people coming in after work. No, it's probably not ideal since it would push the dinner hour back and all, but Josh is the one who CHOSE to own a car lot. He needs to do a decent job running it and make the necessary sacrifices to provide for his family.
If Josh didnt show cars breaking down on the show and stuff like that. He might make more sales.
I think people want to a big dealship(like honda) where they can back up the sales and can fix any issues at a serivce center.
this should explain about the side hugs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0daJoMRm1x4&feature=fvw
Has anyone heard anything about Josie? Has she gone home from the hospital a second time? If not I worry that something serious is going on with her. I wonder what made them send her home when she was so unready. Hoping that everything is ok. She had been back in for a while.
The package we sent with the two new premie outfits and gift card was sent to their post office box and I put delivery confirmation on it so I know it was "delivered". THe box had been opened and a note inside said "Thank you for thinking of us, but no thank you". Please donate to your favorite charity, place of worship or children's hospital" It was signed, Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar Family.
I have to tell you I cried and have stewed over this. I know they are celebrities and there are some sick and weird people out there, but we are offended.
When we had our twin boys prematurely, even with insurance and great jobs, we struggled through some bills. If someone we didn't even know took the time to think of us, I would have been touched beyond words.
If the Duggar's are so worried about security, they wouldn't be attending all these public events and riding around on Zambonis at hockey games where someone could easily do something horrible.
Thank you for your assistance.
Is the package story real or somthing started on a blog?
I hope they buy use new outfits till her skin can handle used stuff. I hope they also keep the little kids away or make people use masks when holding her.
The sideways hug IS so private areas don't touch. I don't think it's that bad. Where I come from we usually lean in and kiss a good friend on the cheek or give a regular hug. If I am meeting someone new I will shake their hand- man or woman. But I think what the Duggars do is fine. I have never done it and would think it was weird if someone gave me a sideways hug though. Does anyone know if this is a common thing in Arkansas or just for Quiverful followers?
First of all, people are assuming that Josh Duggar's car lot is like any ol' car lot you see in any ol' town. The problem with that is--it isn't. It's owned by someone that's on a nationally known TV show. He can go on camera for the show during the interview portion and sound all "aw shucks" about how they are just some small car lot...but the point is, he is Josh Duggar. His name is known not just throughout town, where his family has been well-known for a couple of generations, but he's well-known by a lot of people in America. If you think people aren't coming to buy cars from him just because he's on TV, you're fooling yourself. You may remember that A&E show "King of Cars" about the car dealer in Las Vegas--you think that didn't generate a lot of business? People came from all around to buy cars from him just because he was on tv...and I have no doubt that people are coming from all around to buy cars from Josh just because he's on TV...and now that Josie is sick, they are coming out of sympathy.
Because he learned well from his dad and Jim Sammons, he probably has a ton of cash stashed away in what is probably untouchable cds or money market accounts, so yes, he probably does struggle week to week or month to month, as most car lots of that size do. But he likely keeps those hours because he is first and formost a man of his religious convictions and a man of his faith. And any money he is making from TLC will likely go into investments for his family's future, not to live off of day to day. He seems to be following in his father's footsteps--working to make it one step at a time, yet as most parents hope, he has it easier than his parents did.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if he had the cash saved up to be able to purchase some investment properties. In this market and in Arkansas, I'm sure property is cheap. Plus paying cash he can buy "as is" and do the repair work himself. He knows how to do the work himself with the help of friends and family. He knows where to buy the building materials cheap and/or negotiate for good deals. His father owns all the tools. So he's on his way to starting his own mini-real estate empire like his father.
He graduated at 16. He got married at 20. That's 4 years he had to work and earn and invest. Before the car lot he did some construction that wasn't the house they built (he mentioned he didn't like it enough to do it as a career.) He also mentioned he has a politcal consulting business and his audio/visual business that has received some credits in the TLC shows. So he has made some money and knowing his upbringing he has wisely invested it, especially considering that until he was married he had no expenses (clothing, food, and shelter were paid for by his parents.)
I wouldn't worry about his car business attracting buyers--his fame is likely doing a good enough job at that.
fyi- the website for Josh's car lot is a template he is paying a per month fee for. I can tell when I am loading a page for one of his cars. While that is actually a good business decision I still find it interesting.
Re: the Gothard debate:
Since Knowledge Is Power, to people like Gothard who want an obedient band of loyal followers, one tactic is to downplay the importance of knowledge.
If followers can be convinced that being a knowledge seeker (beyond what Gothard and his ilk are 'teaching') is less than godly, they are less likely to question teachings and motives of the teachers.
Not saying if Gothard's following are a cult. But I am saying he utilizes some cult tactics.
Why would anyone send a baby gift to complete strangers? I really do not see what pleasure that would bring to a person? Especially if the strangers were wealthy, like the Duggars seem to be.And then, to actually feel hurt because strangers rejected your offering, seems more than strange?
"I have to tell you I cried and have stewed over this. I know they are celebrities and there are some sick and weird people out there, but we are offended. "
When people are on TV or in the public eye a lot, sharing the details of their lives with us, we start to feel like we know them. We begin to care about them as if they are friends or family; we rejoice with their successes and mourn with their heartaches.
It feels like a real relationship... but it isn't. It's completely one-sided. They don't care about us (personally). They don't rejoice with us. They don't mourn with us. Because they don't even KNOW us. It's not real.
Also, most of the million or whatever viewers feel they same way we do... THEY have a personal relationship with the Duggars, they know them, they worry about them, etc. How many others felt they knew the Duggars well enough to send personal gifts? At least thousands of people, don't you think?
The Duggars did the right thing. They didn't pretend to know you well so as to make accepting the gifts okay. They didn't pretend to know you well so that they could accept the gifts, but never use them AND sell them later (like another TLC family). They didn't even accept them and donate them themselves, making themselves look good and charitable.
They thanked a stranger (one of many) for gifts they didn't need. They suggested giving the gifts to people who actually need them. And they didn't try to prolong a one-sided relationship or friendship... one they could never reciprocate, by the way.
You obviously have a very caring and generous spirit... what a gift in today's world! Please don't let the Duggars dampen it. Use it where it is really needed, or where there can be at least a little return for your gestures. I guarantee it will be a lot more fulfilling.
"THe box had been opened and a note inside said "Thank you for thinking of us, but no thank you". Please donate to your favorite charity, place of worship or children's hospital" It was signed, Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar Family. I have to tell you I cried and have stewed over this. I know they are celebrities and there are some sick and weird people out there, but we are offended. "
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I have to tell you I was VERY pleasantly surprised to read this. At first, when I read, "Thank you for thinking of us, but no thank you," I thought it was rude and I,too, would have been offended. However, after reading the whole message, I think that was a wonderful thing for them to say. I've been critical of the family lately, but this shows that they truly are practicing what they preach. They know they have enough money to care for themselves and that they CHOSE to have this many children and that there are others less fortunate out there. I'm actually shocked - for some reason I didn't expect that, but I guess maybe I've been too hard on them. I think their response is exactly what most of us would have suggested they do if we had found out they were keeping the gifts instead. Go Duggars.
I'd also like to add to my last post (I just posted my thoughts on JB and Michelle's returning the package) that their suggestion to "please donate to your favorite charity, place of worship or children's hospital" shows that they truly are appreciative of the care Josie is receiving and are wanting to give back. I think that's great.
Does anyone know if this is a common thing in Arkansas or just for Quiverful followers?
***************
It's a cultural or sub-culture thing.
Once again, it's important to remember that the Duggars are QF (as far as we know) but don't represent all QF families. And the side-hug I've seen in non QF churches.
I drive by Josh's car lot every day and no.. it's not any more "special" than anyone else's used car lot. Just because he's on TV doesn't make his car lot "famous". Most people do not even know where it is. It looks like a junkyard. It is a junkyard. People are not going to buy a run down car just because the owner is on a TV show.
I'm just saying.. They are not exactly the "celebrities" in our town that everyone seems to think they are.
Am I mistaken or didn't Josh and Anna put their baby gift registry on their site? I thought it was somewhat inappropriate. These are tv people paid for their work. Not our friends and neighbors. Imagine if everyone sent a present. I think the older Duggars did the right thing. Something could be noted on the show about donations to a charity.
"About the Duggars clothing, some of it has to be new. There was a jacket Johannah was wearing this season and it was from the current full price line at the gymboree. I am positive about the jacket because I considered buying it for my daughter. I have also spotted at least 4 other items of current line gymboree on the younger girls during the 19 kids season. With Gap, AE, Aeropostle clothes the older children wear I could not tell you if they were from the current year or a lucky ebay/thrift store find but with gymboree (I am a huge gymboree fan) I can spot the lines and know exactly what month they came out in. "
If you are seeing logos on clothing in this show, it is clearly product placement. These shows blur out logos on clothing that are not sponsored so as not ot compete with paying brands. (Jon Gosselin's Ed Hardy t-shirts come to mind.) If they found the gap sweatshirts and Aero shirts at a thrift store, TLC would have blurred the logos.
Used car lot in our neighborhood has these hours.
M-F 10am-5:30pm
SAT 10am-2:00pm
SUN Closed
or anytime by appointment
Biggest difference between Josh's and this one is the Saturday hours.Also both have the inventory online.
By the way have have been in business for over 35 years.
I don't think the Duggars sending the gift back is rude, nor do I think it's strange to send a gift to a person you don't know. Plenty of people who feel connected to others through their faith do things like this all the time. I think that's what the Duggars were doing as well by sending the package back - demonstrating that they care for others and would rather have it go to someone in need. I don't think it was so much about not "reciprotating a relationship" with someone they don't know, as they seem friendly and caring about others. I think it was more just that they didn't feel right accepting it.
I am bewildered at anyone who would buy a baby gift (or wedding or whatever) to some person or people on TV. I mean...really? Truly? That is all you can think of to spend your money, and TIME and thought on? If you have to do such a thing, why not find a young mother, or young struggling family in your own city or county?? I am sure they could use a nice outfit or blanket whatever, for their baby. I was one of those struggling women once, with several young , stair-step toddlers and baby(s). Even a carton of diapers would have been welcomed, and eagerly.
I just find this gift-buying-for=TV=people unsettling. It says something needy and off-balance about the sender. **** YMMV *****
" So he has made some money and knowing his upbringing he has wisely invested it, especially considering that until he was married he had no expenses"
I have always thought this. I suspect that Josh has been saving money and living frugally for years, and will most likely invest it in real estate, if he hasn't already. He is doing what he saw his parents do for years. His car lot is not his only asset or source of income. Regardless of his faults, we laugh at Josh's humble car lot now, but I think he will have the last laugh. He will probably live a debt-free lifestyle his entire life with his assets growing along with his family and be financially independent at a fairly young age, even if/when the TLC gig ends. This is my prediction.
Josh has no education and no business sense. If he weren't selling his family out for our national viewing, he'd be sitting in poverty.
He's savvy enough to know that TV is where the money is (not in that pathetic car lot of clunkers), but selling ones soul to the devil always has a price. Josh doesn't know that yet, but he probably will learn this reality, sometime in the future.
Privacy is more valuable than money, but some people (Josh, Jim Bob, Kate G, etc) are too greedy to know the difference.
The Duggars don't need viewers sending them baby gifts because they make plenty of TLC money from selling their privacy.
They don't need gifts, they just need people to keep tuning in to their sham to keep the money flowing in. The note from the Duggars says it all, thanks but no thanks.
"Regardless of his faults, we laugh at Josh's humble car lot now, but I think he will have the last laugh. He will probably live a debt-free lifestyle his entire life"
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Especially so long as he remains willing to sell out his family's privacy for those TLC $$$$$.
The real profit is not in the sale of the used cars. It's in the financing. If he's carrying the notes on the purchases, that's where the real money comes in.
To the poster who wondered about the "side hugs". No that is not an Arkansas thing. People here hug perfect strangers to welcome them and it is a front hug although more just a leaning in and brushing cheeks.
The place where I have seen this done before was when I worked in an Adolescent Unit in Ne. We taught the girls to do the side hug because many of them were incest victims and this way they could show affection without "chests" touching. Personally I think it is a good idea for anyone because incest is a lot more prevalent than most people realize.
My guess would be that the Duggars learned this somewhere at a church related event, but I have no real knowledge of where they got it.
"I just find this gift-buying-for=TV=people unsettling. It says something needy and off-balance about the sender"
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Agreed. I think these 'reality' families appeal to a certain type of person whose personality traits seem to include needing to live vicariously through the fantasy that is supposedly 'reality' tv.
JMO, I'll never understand the kind of 'hero worship' that goes on in this country for the likes of tv and movie 'celebrities'. Seems kinda sad, as if something is lacking in the lives of these worshippers and the void is somehow somewhat filled by feeling important by emotionally connecting to the people seen on tv.
Bottom line IMO is this: 'reality' tv isn't reality at all. It is a scripted, scrubbed, sanitized, skewed projection of what TV execs think viewers want to see and believe in.
This opinion includes the Duggars.
I think what bothers many posters about Josh, is not that he is financially secure, but that he appears basically lazy. I doubt he has struggled at all. He lived under his parents roof for 4 years, was fed and waited on by his sisters, while playing in his AV room. We have never seen him breaking a sweat, and working hard, or hardly at all. He received a house from Grandpa Duggar, and the low hanging fruit of being on a TLC show has fallen into his lap. So I, for one am not going to anoint him St. Josh and regard him as a financial wizard, quite yet.
I will be more interested to see if the girls, who have used those golden years, post age 16, as "in house and nursery help", will have money of their own, when they get married. Same 4 years!
There is a reason Josh does not sell newer cars with lower miles. He buys the cars from auctions and private parties so he would have to put up alot more cash for a new car. It is less risk for Josh to pay $2k for a car, then just powerwash it and try and sell it for 3k. I have also wondered if newer cars costing more to the buyer would mean Josh would have to finanace more customers and we all know what Duggars think about debt.
I am curious, we know Jim Bob loves auctions, why Josh or even Jim Bob has never started an auction service.
Recently we were looking for a truck, and wanted to pay cash, so I compared what I was seeing as prices on Josh's website to what I was seeing for prices. His prices seem to be about 20-25% higher. We went down to an auction to look, and found out how it worked. The car auction business gets a small fee $200 per car/truck sold. The bank/carlot/private party holds the title and on auction day when the car is paid for the auction collects the cash and gives it to the title holder and gets the title. This way the auction owner is never the "owner" of the car and does not have to put out any money. Of course the profit is lower, but there is less risk and higher volume.
Sorry to ramble on, but after hearing the Duggars talk on multiple episodes about buying at auction and since it is self-employment I wonder why Josh did not go this route? Also with Josh saying he wanted to work less hours, reguardless of ones feelings on this, auctions usually have a preview time for a few hours a week and the auction is on one day. Advertising and paperowrk could be done at home.
Josh Duggar's car lot being a junkyard or not, there are people out there willing to walk his lot just hoping and waiting for the TLC cameras to be there that day. Some people out there are willing to follow them around just so they can say they were in the background in a scene. For that reason there are people willing to buy cars from Josh Duggar just to say they bought a car from Josh Duggar--hoping they get filmed doing it.
"He will probably live a debt-free lifestyle his entire life with his assets growing along with his family and be financially independent at a fairly young age, even if/when the TLC gig ends."
I don't really know Josh, and I'm not privy to his finances, so I don't really know how he lives. However, I can say that as a peer, I do not view what financial decisions I can infer from the show as being exemplar. Josh and I were born 2 days apart. I'm debt free. I live frugally. I've chosen to invest my resources (in a college education), upon which I expect a great return over the course of my lifetime. I AM financially independent, and most of my friends are similar to myself. From my experience, Josh is at best on par with the majority of his peer group. Perhaps below if you consider that the majority of his peer group does not have the boon of TLC and that the operation of the lot requires a massive overhaul.
All in all, it's very subjective. I'm just saying that where I come from, Josh is nothing to put on the news.
Anonymous said...
I guess I missed this one....can someone explain why JB and Michelle have 80 days of abstinence after the birth of a girl, and a different number (forgot the exact number noted) of days abstinence after the birth of a boy? What does the gender have to do with anything?
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I think the Bible verses they use to justify this practice is found in Leviticus 12:1-5. For a boy, the new mother is to be considered ceremonially unclean for seven days and then wait 33 days to be purified from her bleeding. This accounts for the 40 days of abstinence.
For a girl, the new mother is to be considered unclean for 2 weeks and then wait 66 days to be purified. This accounts for the 80 days of abstinence after giving birth to a girl.
I'm only speculating here but the difference in numbers probably accounts for the difference in "value" placed on a son versus a daughter during those days; with a male child being looked upon more favorably than a female child.
Snap! said...
The sideways hug IS so private areas don't touch. I don't think it's that bad. Where I come from we usually lean in and kiss a good friend on the cheek or give a regular hug. If I am meeting someone new I will shake their hand- man or woman. But I think what the Duggars do is fine. I have never done it and would think it was weird if someone gave me a sideways hug though. Does anyone know if this is a common thing in Arkansas or just for Quiverful followers?
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I attended a Christian college in Arkansas and the sideways hug was not typical. Male or female, a full on hug was quite common and considered friendly and chaste.
For Real? said:
I just find this gift-buying-for=TV=people unsettling. It says something needy and off-balance about the sender. **** YMMV *****
* * *
I don't blame the Duggars for returning any gifts they receive from fans or unknown people. I do blame them for giving out their address so that fans are able to send such packages right to them. If I were in their shoes, I'd stop mail delivery to my home and set up a P.O. box.
I would then add language at the top of my website that asks people to please NOT send any gifts, but if they feel so inclined, to please either donate similar gifts or the value of the gift to a local charity of their choice. I'd also say that if anyone still sends along gift, it will be donated straight to Toys for Tots or something like that.
I don't get the whole idea of sending strangers on my television set gifts either. I imagine that the people who do so must be rather lonely and don't have close friends/family. So they fill that void by "bonding" with the Duggars or other television entertainers. It's usually harmless, but sadly it sometimes goes way off the deep-end and that's when it can turn tragic.
I sure hope the Duggars try to discourage any further gift-giving. They certainly don't need it anyway.
"The real profit is not in the sale of the used cars. It's in the financing. If he's carrying the notes on the purchases, that's where the real money comes in."
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THIS from a family who prides itself on living debt free??
Oh, the irony.
Oh, the hypocrisy.
Blogger Marybeth said...
Josh Duggar's car lot being a junkyard or not, there are people out there willing to walk his lot just hoping and waiting for the TLC cameras to be there that day. Some people out there are willing to follow them around just so they can say they were in the background in a scene. For that reason there are people willing to buy cars from Josh Duggar just to say they bought a car from Josh Duggar--hoping they get filmed doing it.
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I agree with part of this. I think people will definitely look up his car lot, go visit, check out the cars, try to meet him, hope to be on camera, etc... however, I do not think that translates into people actually buying a car from him because he's on tv.
Bottom line, it's a big purchase, and most people are going to choose what they feel is the best deal and most reputable service, and not base that decision on whether the business owner is "famous" or not. In fact, my guess would be that most of the people who come to his lot due to the Duggar fame are not even serious about buying a car. They're just hoping to see Josh or get on tv!
If I was traveling through that part of the country, I would probably want to drive by the lot just for fun, and might even get out and walk around it and look at the cars. But I would never consider buying a car there (not anything against Josh, but just because I'm more comfortable working with a traditional "dealer" with an established, long-term reputation, and I prefer to buy used cars that are "certified" by the maker). I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way!
Trying to meet someone "famous" for fun, and actually making a serious major purchase are two completely different things.
I would say this about their website---I think with the whole shock and immediacy of Josie's birth, their website has gone by the wayside. Anyone who's gone there knows that it hasn't been updated for a long, long time. While I'm sure it would only take a phone call to get it updated, I also know that's the last thing on their mind.
I'm also sure that they probably get WAY more mail and packages than just that one gift we heard about here. I'm a fan of the show itself on Facebook and several people seem to think they are talking to the Duggars directly, not to TLC--asking them questions and asking where to send them gifts, saying they just made them something homemade for the new baby. Some people do feel as though they know the Duggars--we see Michelle talk to perfect strangers when they go "out and about" so sweetly and with such kindness, that it's hard to remember she's on TV and not in our actual living room. However, most of us are able to seperate fantasy from reality. I'd like to think those people sending cards and gifts are doing so because they are kind-hearted people who are doing so out of the goodness of their hearts. But in reality it may just be that it's up there with sending a gift to your favourite Jonas Brother or to your favourite soap star, hoping you'll get a reply back that you can put in your scrap book.
In the beginning, they did let people know where they lived, because it was basically too hard not to. They live in such a small town and we've all seen their house from so many angles, that if you're there, you can find it. They used to invite people to their home for home church as well---now that they are so "big" in the famous department, I'm not sure if that's true anymore. I also believe in the beginning the did make an effort to answer mail and email, but when that became impossible--they wrote a book--and then had an epsisode called "Ask the Duggars."
As I've said in the past, they seriously don't "get" how truly famous they are from a TV standpoint, because they haven't watched TV since Jim Bob and Michelle were engaged. They stopped having a TV in the house when they got married. They don't have a gauge with which to measure what fame actually is. Remember, when asked they had no idea who Dolly Parton was. So even though they are on national tv, having their address on their website doesn't seem strange to them in that sense--again fame isn't an issue--they don't really consider themselves famous--they just know that people do know who they are and wave to them when they go out. It sounds dumb to the rest of us, but it's just the way it is.
But yes, it would be nice if they could put a disclaimer out there for people "please don't send us gifts for Josie, or the other children--donate to your favourite charity, or so-and-so charity in her name" or something like that.
He also mentioned he has a politcal consulting business and his audio/visual business that has received some credits in the TLC shows. So he has made some money and knowing his upbringing he has wisely invested it, especially considering that until he was married he had no expenses (clothing, food, and shelter were paid for by his parents.)
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Josh is a 21 year old kid with no life experience, who is going to use him as a political consultant?
Do you mean the audio/video that he used when he taped his own wife giving birth and then sold it?
He needs to be thankful of whatever money he has coming in from TLC, it will dry up eventually and there won't be a Dugger 2.0 (Please God no Dugger 2.0 lol)
Is anyone else besides me a little worried that no statement has been released about how Josie's doing in the hospital this time around? Whether she's been sent home? And I'm more suspicious since they haven't started previews for the Mother's Day special I thought they had planned to do showing Josie's original homecoming. . .
"We have never seen him breaking a sweat, and working hard, or hardly at all."
Josh did do a major portion of the manual labor of building the family home over a three year time period. He was probably working on it every day along with the rest of the family, and as the oldest boy probably had the heaviest workload. He also mentioned that he has done other construction jobs and has been selling cars since age 16. He obviously isn't high-energy, but he's always been working at something. I don't know that I would describe him as lazy. I know a lot of lazy people and they haven't done any of what Josh can say he has done. I don't particularly care for Josh, but I don't think he's nearly as bad as some are making him out to be.
And as far as "selling" his family's privacy - hasn't Anna agreed to all this? She knew when she married him he was on TV and that she would be too. She appears to be fine with it. It doesn't look to me like he strongarmed her into this against her wishes.
As far as Josh's business, don't underestimate the power of homeschooling and/or conservative Christian networking.
Years ago we homeschooled one of our children, and went to see a house way out in the country that had been advertised for sale by owner in our local homeschool network's newsletter. After visiting, we found out that not only were the owners advertising in the newsletter because they wanted to sell only to a homeschool family, but the 20 or so homes in the acreage around the house were ALL homeschoolers. Apparently someone sold the land piece by piece to homeschooled families in order to establish some sort of "community"... until the economy started sinking, the owners were under honor or obligation to sell only to other homeschoolers.
Now we loved homeschooling, but I have to say, that totally creeped us out...
"The real profit is not in the sale of the used cars. It's in the financing. If he's carrying the notes on the purchases, that's where the real money comes in."
* * *
I'm not biblical scholar but I do recall several admonitions in the bible about not lending money "upon usury."
Anonymous said...
I'm not biblical scholar but I do recall several admonitions in the bible about not lending money "upon usury."
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Someone mentioned in an earlier post that they seem to "cherry pick" on what rules they follow, this seems to be one of those times
THIS from a family who prides itself on living debt free??
Oh, the irony.
Oh, the hypocrisy.
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But I thought people were against the Duggars telling other what to do? I've seen numerous posts criticizing them on protesting against the EZMart selling alcohol.
Wouldn't they be criticized if Josh didn't offer any financing to people that couldn't afford to pay cash for the car? The Duggars are darned if they do try to tell other people what to do, and they're darned if they don't try to tell other people what to do.
It's not hypocrisy, it's a smart business practice to provide financing options to people. And if his customers choose to fill out a credit application, and get financing, then it's that customers choice. And who are we to tell Josh's customers that they shouldn't be getting financing from Josh? I just don't get it.
Josh is not earning his livelihood or supporting his family on that used car lot of old clunkers.
He is making a fine living by selling his young wife and daughter's privacy to TLC. I cannot imagine for a second that Mr. and Mrs. Keller ever imagined that their modest daughter would be shown birthing her first child on national television. After all, Anna was so sheltered that she had never even had five minutes alone with her husband-to-be until their marital evening. And now she's got her knees showing, legs spread apart, in the most private and intimate of family moments...on national tv?
This is how Josh is making a living. And he should be ashamed of himself. It isn't an honest man's work, but compromising the family values, all for the almighty dollar.
For shame, Josh!
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I wholeheatedly agree with that. when i was giving birth (and i wear tank tops and jeans with plenty of cleavage) i couldn't dream of having anybody in that room that wasn't my husband or medically absolutely necessary. I think that Anna's parents seem like lovely people, and she seems like a lovely girl.
In the quiverful community women are supposed to obey their husbands. but here is the justification they get: even if your husband is not worth obeying but you do it in the best way possible you will in the end answer to jesus about how well you obeyed your husband. and he will answer as to how he treated you. the husband is supposed to love the wife the way jesus loves the church. now none of this makes sense to me, but i think if this is truly the standard Anna has been held up to, then she is performing admirably under the circumstances.
I think one of the reasons we aren't hearing much about Josie's condition is because the episode to bring her home is coming up. They are keeping it hush hush so people are more likely to tune in and watch.
If she is able to come home I think we will see a Today show interview the Thursday or Friday before Mothers Day to promote the episode.
I'm not biblical scholar but I do recall several admonitions in the bible about not lending money "upon usury."
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Pick one or the other guys he either has a bunch of money were he could afford to loan people money thus violating the usury verse in the bible.
OR he doesn't have the money to loan to people and therefore offers them a way to pay for their cars through a finance company and then he doesn't fall under the usury bible clause.
What others do with their money Josh has no control over. Wouldn't it be hypocritical of Josh if he TOLD people what to do after years of saying that they don't push their views off on other people?
One of the biggest issues people seem to misconstrue about The Duggars is that they are pushing their views onto others while they themselves have said over and over again this is just how OUR family does things. The fact that Josh is not pushing his views about no debt onto his customers shows me he's not a hypocrite, but he does know business, he has something in place for his customers he knows some may want, he does not partake himself because of his views on the subject.
I am not a tee-totaler, but I also do not drink alcohol, I won't buy it for my family members that drink (only because I have no idea what a good wine is) but I keep the wine glasses clean at my house so when they bring it over they can have something to drink it in.
Josh is doing the same thing, he doesn't borrow money himself or lend it, but he does offer a way for others to borrow money if they need it.
Someone mentioned in an earlier post that they seem to "cherry pick" on what rules they follow, this seems to be one of those times
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Christians are not under Old Testament laws, never have been.
Following some of the laws make sense health wise, and society wise; no one though can keep all 613 mitzvots (commandments) listed in the Old Testament.
Keeping the 10 commandments (or at least trying) makes sense because 8 out of the 10 help you live peaceably within society. The other two simply keep you closer to your God.
Every one on the planet picks and chooses what laws they will and will not follow. Are you going to do 55 on that road or 60? Are you going to slow down for that yellow light or speed up and go through it? Do you return the pen you used to sign that check with, and accidentally stuck in your pocket or do you return it? Do you white lie and say you're busy when you just really don't want to go out with the M-I-L?
The Duggars never claimed to be perfect anything, why do we expect them to be?
TLC simply knows no boundaries. I only watched a few minutes of this show because frankly it bores me to sleep. Lucky me! I caught the part about the stopped up toilet. Listen, it grosses me out enough when I have plumbing problems of my own, let alone me needing to know about somebody else's. I had to have the realtor who manages my rental send a professional out once, he used a snake and the problem was over in minutes. It grossed me out no end, just knowing what he was doing with that snake. ugh. AND let me mention that the water in the bowl was totally and completely clear, nothing gross to even look at in there. It was a different issue. Still it grossed me out.
Did they really need to show this? I think they really cross the line between what is ok and what is most definitely in extremely poor taste.
That whole thing was just tasteless and crude. It was totally over the top and unnecessary.
Shame on the Duggars for not putting their collective foot down, so to speak.
Just say "NO" to poop and clogged toilets!!!
Re Josh's used car lot and someone indicating that the real money is based on interest income from car loans that his business makes to buyers:
I remarked that the Bible has several admonitions against usury. Some have said that it only makes good business sense for Josh to have sources of financing "available" for prospective buyers, i.e., farming out the financing.
My only comment is that if Josh is the one doing the financing - in other words, the buyer takes out a loan from the dealership and then pays it back with interest to the dealership (Josh), then he is making money from people who aren't living the debt free live he so advocates.
I have no idea if he is actually in the business of giving car loans. However, considering the clunkers he's got on his lot, I know for a fact that getting a loan on any older model, high mileage car is only going to lead you to a high interest car loan. If that's what Josh is providing, then he's profiting off of people who can't afford a $3,000 or $4,000 car. And you know the interest isn't some measly 8% or 10% on these types of loans.
It doesn't break a single law, it is "good business," but it violates the spirit of the Bible verses that speak out against the practice.
On the one hand, the Duggars and others that follow the ATI or QF movement choose to be self-employed so they can be with their families, so they don't have conflicts on the job with their spiritual beliefs, etc. On the other, Josh Duggar's small business may make car loans at high interest rates to those who can't afford to pay the full purchase price of even a clunker of a car. That is profiting from the lesser fortune of others. Lots of people do it; but don't pass yourself off as this great Christian if you do too.
Josh Duggar's back yard is visible from the interstate. In his back yard is a big orange sign, facing the interstate, that has pro-gun rhetoric on it. There were two other signs, but I couldn't read that fast! There are two small signs in the front yard too (supporting Jim Holt I believe)
And if ya don't believe me, I'll take a picture! Seriously!
I'm not posting this to spark conservative-liberal debate. (I certainly have my opinion on the matter, but that isn't the point here)
Im sure Josh Duggar is trying to launch himself into politics of some sort. His yard is like a big blinking billboard to his personal beliefs (not to mention Christmas lights for added attention)
Just thought I'd share..
I would be extremely surprised if Josh, through his car lot, were offering direct financing of vehicles. Not because of his "debt-free" lifestyle, but because that is a line of business that would require FAR more energy, attention, and risk willingness than I suspect Josh possesses. Even the franchised name brand car dealers generally offer financing options that go directly to a bank or credit union. They have the forms, but the financial institution makes the actual decision and holds the actual loan. A few have a separate financing business (GMAC comes to mind), but even then, the dealer has nothing to do with the loan, other than providing the paperwork.
Now whether it's hypocritical for Josh to even go that far and provide the means for people to obtain loans is an entirely different question. I have no opinion one way or the other. I just can't work up enough energy to care much about Josh or his choices. Yawn...is it 10:00 am yet?
Cyn said..
Every one on the planet picks and chooses what laws they will and will not follow. Are you going to do 55 on that road or 60? Are you going to slow down for that yellow light or speed up and go through it? Do you return the pen you used to sign that check with, and accidentally stuck in your pocket or do you return it? Do you white lie and say you're busy when you just really don't want to go out with the M-I-L?
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The difference between the Duggars and the rest of the world is that we admit it when we cherry pick.
No they never said they were perfect but they sure do act holier than thou.
This article says to look for a real time update on Josie on the Josie comes home special on mother's day.
http://www.examiner.com/x-24089-TV-Examiner~y2010m4d26-Michelle-Duggar-Its-been-a-precious-time-for-our-family-in-a-lot-of-ways
Josh started his political consulting business out of his fascination of politics that stemmed from his father being a former state respresentative. One of the joys of being home-schooled was that Josh was in the Capital with his father when they were in session--apparently he even had the nickname "Little Governor." So he has taken his life-long hobby of politics and turned it into a business. No, he may not be an "expert" but he does have the experience of his father running for State Senate and being in office as a State Rep, as well as his sheer fascination with politics in general.
As for Josh being lazy--no he isn't exactly lazy. Get up with the chickens? No. But then none of the Duggars seem to get up early. But he was one of the main builders of their home, so let's not forget that. He also did a huge part of the grunt work on the Bates' home project while they were their helping. And during the time between getting his GED and starting his car lot, he did have construction jobs, so he has worked. The only reason I can think of that they continually show him ruffled and in bed is that he may have ticked off a TLC cameraman or editor.
"The difference between the Duggars and the rest of the world is that we admit it when we cherry pick.
No they never said they were perfect but they sure do act holier than thou."
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I totally disagree. Our family is nothing like the Duggars in politics, religion, family size, men's and women's roles, divorce, etc. If anyone should be offended by conservative holier than thou holy rollers, it should be us.
Sorry, I've just never seen that attitude from the Duggars. They are different, they are more conservative, and they are less integrated into the general population, but they don't completely withdraw from it, nor condemn people who don't live like they do (the stupid debt comment notwithstanding).
Okay, nowhere else to post this, but it's just a silly observation any way. Watched an episode online, and maybe it's more noticeable because of the shorter commecial breaks, but the opening scene where all the Duggars are standing in a group and turn their heads at the same time to look towards the camera? Watch it over and over and it starts to look like one of those videos where someone shines a flashlight and a group of cats flick their heads back and forth in unison to watch the spot of light move. By the 4th or 5th time, it was pretty darn funny to watch all those Duggar heads swiveling together. We were amused.
I'm from Little Rock and I don't know who would have called Josh "Little Governor," besides his family. Trust me, most people from Arkansas do NOT know who the Duggars are. And most of the ones who do are not fans. They seem to be more popular outside of the state.
Count me as a fan, though - LOL.
~ Jasmine
I think it was the other politicians that were around JimBob when he was in the state house that called Josh "little Governor" -- not the general public.
You know that ambulance that Josh has listed for sale?
Here it is-
http://arkansasnews.com/2010/04/26/video-jim-holt-brings-in-an-ambulance-for-his-senate-campaign-2/
I also live in Arkansas and I also am a fan. I am fairly new here and find that, although many may not be fans they all know who the Duggars are. I think they may resent the fact that so many see Arkansans as "hillbillies" and the Duggars as an example. They can call themselves that but it doesn't mean they appreciate it coming form others. Since we came here I have found that most of the people we have made friends with are very well educated and/or capable.
I think the "Little "Governor" comment came from the members of the State House of Representatives during Jim Bob's terms there when Josh often accompanied him.
I followed Amanda's link, they did get the ambulance from Josh....
But in doing the research I also found other interesting things.
Jinger is doing some photography for Jim Holt as well... Guess they not only have a life outside TLC, but I don't think she was taking pictures for free either...
It also tells me the girls have more skills than just nanny service that are marketable in the job force.
http://jimholt2010.com/2010/04/26/holt-unveils-emergency-rescue-vehicle/
Politics completely aside the idea for the ambulance was quite cute, but some one forgot to tell Jim Holt and the others that it's illegal to drive a vehicle with flashing lights UNLESS you are a real emergency vehicle.
So as long as they drive with out the lights on the idea itself works.
My daughter is a senior at the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville though we're not actually Arkansas residents. She said the students there know about the Duggars and the show. But she said they "don't like the Duggars" because of the stereotype they seem to perpetuate of Arkansas.
Reg. Jinger potentially working for Jim Holt doing photography and other girls having real world skills: the ATI crowd actually does encourage women to get some real world skills as long as those are things that a woman can do while having a family to bring additional income and be a better helpmate. they even sell courses on approved subjects such as photography and midwifery. i just don't want anybody to think that the girls are stepping outside the mold here. they are doing exactly what they were taught. other approved areas of expertise include small business management, interior design, cosmetology, childhood education and wait for it... bible studies ;)
now if one of those girls went to college to become a midwife, that would be a very different story.
Did anyone see last week's episode of "The Soup" on E! ? As I began to watch the episode, I saw the duggar kids, and I thought, "Oh no! they're gonna make fun of the kids!" But it actually turned out they were making fun about the fact that the show is called 19 kids and counting, it about the 19 kids, yet the last episode (booties epi) spent a good few minutes showing the cousin and the daughter-in-law confused and searching a craft store for yarn. Honestly it was really funny! Anyone else see this episode??
.. Get up with the chickens? No. But then none of the Duggars seem to get up early....
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One of the reasons their school is around the dining room table. There is no way all of those Duggars could awaken and get ready on time each morning, as a regular school would require.
The Duggars seem proud of the fact they can't make it anywhere ON TIME. They mention it frequently.
"Jinger is doing some photography for Jim Holt as well... Guess they not only have a life outside TLC, but I don't think she was taking pictures for free either..."
Go Jinger! That was great. I've always thought those girls do have plenty going on beyond what we see on television. I'd love to see them go to college but whatever they want to do is fine with me
Yeah Jinger. My question is - if the girls have other interests, why don't they show it? They KNOW we all have been wanting to know.
ATI "sells" courses on midwifery?
Are you serious?
A person can become a midwife by completing a study-at-home course?
Pardon if this has been asked before but on one of the latest episodes it showed Michelle with the breast feeding blanket over her and I could have sworn that I saw Jill with a similar blanket over her chest. Please help clear up the confusion.
Yes, ATI has courses in all kinds of trades... from cutting hair to woodworking. Of course, they are gender-specific, and some courses are not open to women with children... (but I don't want to get into that...)
The link to the midwifery program is:
http://ati.iblp.org/ati/students/opportunities/midwifery/
I would be extremely surprised if Josh, through his car lot, were offering direct financing of vehicles.
I have no idea one way or the other, but in the episode where the homeschoolers visited the lot, he pointed to a car sitting atop a tow truck and said that one's a repossession. So someone provided financing, the buyer lost the car, and Josh got it back. It would seem if Josh hadn't been toting the note the car wouldn't be back on his lot. It would belong to whomever financed it.
"Friend has left a new comment on the post "Free Discussion April 2010":
Pardon if this has been asked before but on one of the latest episodes it showed Michelle with the breast feeding blanket over her and I could have sworn that I saw Jill with a similar blanket over her chest. Please help clear up the confusion. "
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I saw that as two women were sitting down facing each other and both appear to be breastfeeding. It was a very quick flash so I did not see who was the other party. I know one was Michelle and I assumed the other must have been Ana as she no doubt breastfeeds.
I will have to take time and watch it again in my TIVO and slow it down to see the details.
When your car is repossessed they are then resold at auctions, where people pay a fraction of the cost it is worth.
Josh buys cars at auctions...
"My daughter is a senior at the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville though we're not actually Arkansas residents. She said the students there know about the Duggars and the show. But she said they "don't like the Duggars" because of the stereotype they seem to perpetuate of Arkansas."
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I can fully understand your daughter's feelings about this - I'd feel the same if I were from Arkansas.
IMO, the Duggars as portrayed on TV are an embarrassment on many levels, giving the impression that intelligence is in short supply in our country.
...someone provided financing, the buyer lost the car, and Josh got it back.
I suspect more accurately he bought it at an auction, which seems to be where he gets most of his vehicles. A majority of repossessed vehicles are sold at auction, as the "note-holder" has no interest in actually owning depreciating assets. Once they have been repossessed, the idea is to get rid of them as quickly as possible, getting whatever you can for them to minimize your loss.
My bro-in-law has a car lot like Josh's..bought at auction, some spit and shine and buy here, pay here...THEY have to repo the car if the payments are late on it. Then the cycle starts again..Car lots like that are a dime a dozen in Arkansas.
I am from Arkansas. I am proud to be from Arkansas but the Duggars do seem to be that stereotypical hillbilly image that everyone has of Arkansas.I grew up with the saying "barefoot and pregnant" for people who had children over and over and over etc...I think of that every time I see the show.
I want to know who gave josh the nickname "Little Governor" cause I don't think it was anyone that was in politics at that time. When the Senate is in session they have business to do and have little toleration for kids to be underfoot all day.
"I want to know who gave josh the nickname "Little Governor" cause I don't think it was anyone that was in politics at that time. When the Senate is in session they have business to do and have little toleration for kids to be underfoot all day."
You know this how...? My father-in-law is in politics, and politicians are people too, especially at the state level! There is plenty of socializing and talking that goes on between sessions, etc. Plus there are dinners, parties, etc. where the legislators and their families get together. Many of them do know each other and their families.
"Pardon if this has been asked before but on one of the latest episodes it showed Michelle with the breast feeding blanket over her and I could have sworn that I saw Jill with a similar blanket over her chest. Please help clear up the confusion."
I think that was Jessa, and they showed it on another episode a few back, and I think she's got the blanket on her just for comfort/warmth.
Josh buys cars at auctions...
* * *
You know what's still weird about that? That he buys old, high mileage clunkers at auction. And chances are, with cars of that vintage, they are up for auction because they were sold for salvage. That's what happens when you get into an accident and the damage exceeds the value of the car. Your insurance cuts you a check, you sign the car over to them, they tow it away and sell it for salvage at auction.
Anyway, Josh will never get rich with his current sort of sales lot, but when the TLC money dries up, he could eke out a living and support his wife and kids, as long as they cut corners, continue shopping at thrift stores, and the like.
It is not true that congress men at the state level do not have time to interact with children. When I was homeschooling each year my daughter along with dozens of other children would spend a week at the state capitol putting on mock bill passing sessions and often a congressman will come and greet the students. The students were required to write to two congressmen and make appointments for that week and most of them responded.
I would think that if JB took his oldest son to work at a few times a year there will be interaction among JB his son and other congressmen. They do have time to be socialable. Who are we to say that it is not possible for a congressman to make a comment or congressmen to make a comment and call Josh a little Governor. I can see it happening. As many have said here that Josh is so full of himself. Well, what you see now most likely has been part of who he is since a small child. So it is not that "out there" that he could have be given that title.
I somehow doubt that other legislators called Josh the "little governor" because why would they? If they thought he was a mini version of JimBob, why not call him the "little congressman" or the "little representative"? I think that's just a little story about how one time someone referred to Josh as being just like a little governor, and as lore happens, it grew into, "that was Josh's nickname."
I think it sounds a little ridiculous and if I were Josh, I wouldn't want that story circulating much.
I read online that the Duggars were seen in Wisconsin. Apparently people had posted this on a blog that TLC runs but the posts were being deleted. Then someone posted this link
http://www.centralassembly.net/events/index.html
I guess Jim Bob and Michelle were speaking at a church in the Dells just a few weeks ago. I wonder if that will make it in any of the episodes. Somehow I doubt it, just like Michelle speaking against the convinient store getting a liquor license was never shown either.
I read that Jim Bob and Michelle left their ill preemie (and the rest of their children) to go speak at a conference in Wisconsin. This was only a few days after Josie was readmitted to the hospital.
I cannot even imagine doing such a thing! If Josie were so sick as to need to be readmitted, what "Mother of the Year" leaves her baby, particularly in that condition?
What is wrong with Michelle? She is missing a really important mothering gene! She may have the fertility to spit out 19 kids, but she certainly doesn't have the maternal abilities of a normal mother of one!
Even if the conference had been scheduled months ago, if Josie had been full term, she would have been only one month old at the time of the conference. Even if she had not been readmitted, Michelle would leave a critically ill child, with her tubes and wires, home to be cared for by her sisters?
UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!
I read that Jim Bob and Michelle went to Wisconsin about 2 weeks ago right after Josie went back in the hospital. They were giving a talk at a confernece and signing books. I'm sure this was pre-planned but with their child just going back in the hospital, I'm sure they could have cancelled. I have lost a bit of respect for them leaving. When my child was in the hospital I would have never thought of leaving the city let alone the state!
http://spartasavings.blogspot.com/2010/04/wonderful-weekend-with-duggars.html
I can hardly believe this. I read on another board that Michelle and JimBob spent the week-end of 04/16-04/17 at a conference in Wisconsin. It was a speaking engagement. Their micro-preemie is in NICU, and yet they both went out of state for the week-end.
This is a brochure for the event:
http://www.familyworshipcenter.biz/questions/family/womens/conference.html
This is a brief blog post from someone who met them at the conference:
"I just got back from the "Real Impact, Real Women" Conference in which the Duggars were the keynote speakers!"
http://spartasavings.blogspot.com/2010/04/wonderful-weekend-with-duggars.html
I cannot believe that both parents went so far away from their newborn who is in precarious health. One or the other could have gone, leaving one to remain close by the hospital should a need or problem arise.
Is this really the example of great motherhood so many revere? I just don't get it. No sir, I do not.
I have been to the dells many times and didnt know they were coming. I think its sick. What would happen if they needed to sign papers for Josie. The older sibs wouldnt be allowed. I really dont think the duggars get how big of a deal this really is. The older girls do and are showing how upset they are on the show.
"Is this really the example of great motherhood so many revere? I just don't get it. No sir, I do not."
I guess it is for some people. I don't get it either.
I am so over this OverBreeding family. Life is not a tv show where the one who has the most kids wins. There are real people involved here, real children who need real parents to raise them. They don't need soundmen and camera men, or teenaged girls, acting in loco parentis.
There is a critically ill baby lying in a NICU and her dimwitted parents seem not to understand the gravity of the situation. They still want to jet off to their next money making venture, when Josie could take a turn for the worse, and they aren't even there.
These people are sick in the head. I don't want to even read about them anymore.
Are we sure the Duggars themselves personally sent the gift back or perhaps it was a production assistant assigned to return all the unasked for gifts?
Rumor has it Josie is over 5 pounds now and will hopefully be home again by Mother's Day.
i'm so upset about this wisconsin thing. i'm actually angry. never thought of myself as a person who would get angry over something on tv... a reality show no less. I know there are tons of horrible parents out there, but the fact that these people are being held up as shinning example of goodness and love and they go to wisconsin while their little baby struggles for her life. that is just wow. on facebook fanpage they asked to leave questions for michelle. well, i did. here is the link in case anybody else would like to ask a few questions:
http://www.facebook.com/19KidsandCounting?v=wall
I just read the Duugars, 20 and counting book tonight. Can someone explain to me the picture on page 77? It shows Jim Bob putting down some tile in the house on Johnson Rd. The picture is of Jinger (age 8) wearing pants! and Jana is in the background wearing pants too? I thought pants were not acceptable, are okay to wear when they are doing remodeling? or did they wear pants 10 years ago?, and the no pants is a more recent change?
Not to downplay the Wisosnsin trip, but now reports say Jim Bob and Michelle are in Big Sandy for the big ATI conference for 4 days! 6 days gone in April while Josie is in the hospital that we know of. I don't expect them to be there 24/7 or even everyday, but to be so far away is so risky. What if something happens. It might be a good thing Josie is back in the hospital and not being cared for by silblings.
Regarding the Duggars speaking at a conference in Wisconsin while Josie was readmitted to hospital, I fail to comprehend how their actions are supposed to be an encouragement to viewers. Absolutely nothing would have taken me away from my very fragile premie. Was this a paid appearance for JB and M? I just don't get it. How can a Mother of the Year not get it? If the Duggar blessings are so important to their parents, it is my opinion that their actions don't follow their speech and beliefs. If Josie is such a blessing (and I believe this little one is a miracle baby) then why would JB and M abandon her especially while she is back in hospital?
It is also my opinion that the Duggars have no intention of changing their plans, in spite of a fragile premie still in hospital. If she hadn't been readmitted, would they have dragged her along with the other blessings to their events? Or would Josie's sisters be responsible for her care and well-being? That is a huge load for the eldest blessings to carry.
I have a feeling that both of these little trips will not make it into any of the episodes. At least Josie has all that breastmilk that Michelle has pumped and pumped and pumped.
Anonymous said:
There is a critically ill baby lying in a NICU and her dimwitted parents seem not to understand the gravity of the situation. They still want to jet off to their next money making venture, when Josie could take a turn for the worse, and they aren't even there.
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I am beginning to think that JimBob and Michelle are, for lack of a better word, dumb people. As in, not very intelligent. I think neither one of them truly understands the gravity of Josie's situation. She was released briefly from the hospital, and who knows if they even took proper care of Josie during her short stay at home. She's been back in the hospital for quite a while now, so I think it's quite likely they did not follow doctor's instructions on her discharge home. I mean, Michelle didn't even quite understand how to properly feed her. I can just see her laying the poor little thing down on her back and trying to bottle feed her that way, totally clueless.
The best thing for Josie would be to remain in the hospital as long as she can, considering that even if she was home, her parents will either a) leave her home with her 19 and 20 year old nannies; or b) worse yet, drag her along on their merry adventures gathering undeserved awards and ill gotten gains.
I used to think Michelle Duggar was at least a step up over Kate Gosselin, but now I put them both squarely equal. Neither one is a fit mother. Neither one is willing to adapt her life to the needs of her children. Rather, both seek attention, fame, glorification, and money over their own children's well being.
I too am sickened. And you bet they won't show this nonsense on their television show, because that would just expose the truth about them.
I am really sad to see that both parents left the baby after she was readmitted to the hospital, and I suppose she is still there? My guess is that they were booked and received compensation for their trip but still. . .couldn't Jim Bob have gone and left Michelle to be with Josie? It's really scary that they would leave when she is doing poorly.
There is no way one can have 19 children and give them all the attention they need and deserve. . .forget about a preemie in this kind of condition.
I do not think Jim Bob and Michelle are dumb, but they do seems easily persuaded into things. When reading thier book, it seems like everytime they went to some conference or seminar, they were hooked and went full force with it. With everything from homeschooling, finanaces, down to the chore packets, they were all someone elses ideas that they now believe in 100%.
I think these recent trips prove that they are so devout in their beliefs and choices that going to these events to inspire others is thier calling. It is just as much a calling as have all the blessings , and being having the show to inspire others.
I'm sure they get paid for these events, but for them I think it is more the idea of spreading the word and inspiring others then the money. When you hear people that go to these events talk to Jim Bob or Michelle, they are always saying how nice they were, how much time they took to talk with them, you never hear they just sign book after book without looking up like Kate G. The Duggars seem really believe in getting their message out there.
It seems though they are caring more aout getting the message out then being close to there sick baby.
I posted a comment on an earlier thread when Josie was released that I really believed Jim Bob and Michelle would not do anything to risk Josie's fragile health. I really thought that's what would happen. Now to hear that both of them were not only out of town, but out of state with Josie still critical makes me cringe. I'm sure Jana and Jill were able to stand in for Michelle and hold and feed the baby (probably better than she could, I remember seeing the episode when Jana held her for the first time). However, surely they couldn't make any medical decisions or sign any papers regarding treatment.
I'm not in Michelle's shoes, but I can't imagine anything that would take me away from my newborn in an NICU.
Having just read about this now on this blog and just reading the posts quickly, I hope I missed something and this is all just a rumor.
It seems though they are caring more aout getting the message out then being close to there sick baby.
This sounds fairly accurate. I think the Duggars really believe they have been selected by God to spread a message wide and far. However, what I see is a living example of how easily we can be tempted by earthly things and lose sight of what is most important.
By falling into the trap of believing they are so important to the cause, these parents willingly left the state while their very ill preemie baby was in the NICU. What would have happened if Josie had a sudden change in health that required emergency surgery? Who was in line to authorize the surgery if not JimBob or Michele? How would they have felt to be in another state and learn their newest needed emergency surgery and know they would not be able to return in time to be there? How would they feel if their baby died while they were in Wisconsin attending a conference?
I don't know the answers to those questions, but I do know how I would feel as a parent. Anguished, ashamed of myself, and probably always haunted by the "what if" of the situation.
I'd like to point out that the immortal souls of the people attending the conference are probably not in doubt; by Duggar standards, since they're attending such a conference to begin with. I wouldn't put what the Duggars do on even the same plane as say, work by Mother Teresa. They weren't out rescuing orphans, nor on an emergency trip to bring supplies to a disaster area, or any other truly life-saving trip. They went to a conference where they spoke to people who already believe what they believe, and they made some money and had some feel good moments posing for pictures.
All that couldn't be postponed until their preemie is out of the woods and thriving?
That's not putting God first, although they will spin it that way. That's putting some minor earthly gratification and a bit of money first, your family a distant second. For shame.
"Inspiration," like charity, begins AT HOME.
Leaving an infant with such incredible special needs is misguided at best.
Hard to say which is worse, their lack of smarts or their chasing after the TLC $ poorly masked with their claim of wanting to 'inspire others'.
The reality about the Duggars is: the only thing they 'inspire' in this viewer is a complete lack of respect on many levels.
We have the Gosselins.
We have the Duggars.
Both have a professionally crafted (by TLC) BRAND of "christian" (whatever that even really means) family life.
What goes on in their REAL lives is very different than the scripted, edited version TLC keeps trying to pass off as 'reality'.
A speaking engagement is more important than remaining with such a vulnerable preemie? And THIS is supposed to be 'inspiring'????????
Time to wake up and smell the mendacity that is 'reality' tv.
Sadly it is not a rumor, there are pictures floating around on the internet on blogs from people that were there.
I guess once Michelle stops pumping we won't have to worry about seeing the My Brest Friend pillow or that awful cape anymore because I doubt Josie will ever truly breastfeed. Michelle is too busy to stop and try to make that work. No wonder she is so thrilled with her stash of milk. Joise will not be breastfed but at least she will get breastmilk.
If TLC aired two new 'reality' shows, one showing "Santa's Sacred Family" and the other "The Easter Bunny: 19 Bunnies And Counting" would you believe TLC's attached claim to be providing 'reality' programming?
Meet the Gosselins and the Duggars, aka Santa and The Easter Bunny.
Welcome to TLC's version of 'reality'.
I forfeited a pre-paid interpretor-lead group trip to Italy when my Mom (God rest her soul) was diagnosed with cancer.
I JUST CANNOT IMAGINE LEAVING A TINY LITTLE BABY THAT I GAVE BIRTH TO IN A HOSPITAL TO ATTEND ANYTHING!
Is there something wrong with this picture or what?
I don't know why people feel that it is shocking, they left their preemie alone, they have left little Jordan as an infant, and little Jennifer, who seems to have special needs, as a toddler. They have fulfilled their contract to God and brought the children into the world. Their job is not to nurture and raise, only to bring them in and to ensure they are raised by someone within the family unit. On to Numero 20 and of course raise the family fortunes by speaking about how saintly they are
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