Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
This blog is managed by a group of administrators who are all in ongoing contact with each other. To share your questions or concerns with us privately, please send your email to: Maggie at shatzie1980@yahoo.com or sharla.smith@live.com
1. Do not be rude to other posters or call them names.
2. No online petitions.
3. Do not be rude about the children or call them names. Commenting on the behaviour that we have seen is acceptable, but no name calling.
4. Do not refer to calling CPS or use the term child abuse unless we something that actually is abusive.
5. Watch profanity.
6. Don't tell the moderators how to run the blog.
7. Be careful about boards on boards and please don't discuss or provide links to other Duggar boards.
8. No diagnosing mental/medical conditions.
9. No posting addresses.
10. Along with not being rude don't tell other people how to think, act, or behave - don't try to tell other people what to do or not do.
11. No using the kids' names or moderators' as your screen name.
12. Comments including "I'm sure you won't print this" will never be printed.
13. No unsolicited recaps. We are not recapping the Duggar shows.
14. The administrators are not able to verify the identity of people who comment here. Believe what you choose to believe.
15. Please use proper grammar, spelling, capitalizations and punctuations in your comments. No instant message type speaking.
16. Please refrain from beating the dead horses such as Josh's years ago expressed interest in law school. If the Duggars have moved on, so should we.
2. No online petitions.
3. Do not be rude about the children or call them names. Commenting on the behaviour that we have seen is acceptable, but no name calling.
4. Do not refer to calling CPS or use the term child abuse unless we something that actually is abusive.
5. Watch profanity.
6. Don't tell the moderators how to run the blog.
7. Be careful about boards on boards and please don't discuss or provide links to other Duggar boards.
8. No diagnosing mental/medical conditions.
9. No posting addresses.
10. Along with not being rude don't tell other people how to think, act, or behave - don't try to tell other people what to do or not do.
11. No using the kids' names or moderators' as your screen name.
12. Comments including "I'm sure you won't print this" will never be printed.
13. No unsolicited recaps. We are not recapping the Duggar shows.
14. The administrators are not able to verify the identity of people who comment here. Believe what you choose to believe.
15. Please use proper grammar, spelling, capitalizations and punctuations in your comments. No instant message type speaking.
16. Please refrain from beating the dead horses such as Josh's years ago expressed interest in law school. If the Duggars have moved on, so should we.
305 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 305 of 305roddma said:
"What if a Maxwell son meet an independent female with her own house who doesn't want to give it up ? Asking for building materials as wedding gifts seem strange "
------------------------------------The "what if" par is moot being it would never happen, he would not marry an independant girl as you have described, unless that is what he is waiting 28 years and more for the "right one". Yes it is strange to ask for building material for his sons's houses but than again are they not "strange"? Maybe not as strange as the Duggars. Maybe one of the Duggar girls may be more independant than he. Also the girls may have enough cash stashed to buy her own house.
The Duggars are religious liberals compared to the Maxwell family! I read up on the Maxwells - their children are sheltered to the extent that friendships with anyone outside the family even ATI are not allowed. This ban even includes members of their own extended family if they are "worldly". The Duggar parents are more into material things, less into a strict daily schedule of praying, and less focused on their individual children than the Maxwells. I'm thinking the Maxwell children marry late because the parents have trouble finding perspective daughter/son-in-laws who've had no exposure to the outside world - no newspapers, radio, TV as they have brought up their children.
I think it's time to let the Maxwells go in peace. As far as I remember, they have not appeared on the show. Using a few of their materials does not mean we need a full blown discussion of them. Thanks.
that leads to a question,would the boys be able to consider a courtship or marriage with an older woman? or would that be discouraged? I mean someone who is a year or more older than they are.
Just seems it might be harder for them to feel like that Patriach of the family with an older wife.
"I believe that the GED is accepted at most colleges and probably by the military-- can't you drop out of HS and still join up?"
I can only speak for the Army's requirements, but no, you can't drop out of high school and join anymore. The Army hasn't accepted drop outs since sometime in the 1980s. At that time, and up until post 9/11, a GED was sufficient.
However, now that enlistment numbers are way up, the Army has tightened its regs even more. If you only have a GED, you have to have 15 hours of accredited college courses. No Duggar, at this point, qualifies to join the Army. But, a bigger question is, would the Duggars even allow their children to join the military?
Anonymous said:
. But, a bigger question is, would the Duggars even allow their children to join the military?
=============================
I think the Duggars would say for the record that their children can pursue whatever career choices they desire, including a military career. But it seems that those of a strong fundamentalist background very rarely choose to serve their country by selecting voluntary military service. I really don't know why that is -- they always seem to be displaying patriotic things boldly - like flags and such. They always seem to be very vocal in wanting to "save our country," yet they don't seem interested in saving it by joining the military.
Is is lack of bravery? I don't think so.
Is it an unwillingless to mingle with those that are of all different colors and beliefs? I tend to think this is more than likely a big reason.
While they give lip service to "support the troops" and "save our country" etc., fundamentalists are at heart very insular and distrustful of anything and anyone who does not share their same belief system. They would not willingly go to live with those who are different from them. Perhaps ultimately it's a lack of trust in the strength of their faith - that they worry if they do not stay with the pack, they will wander off the spiritual path they are supposed to follow.
Let's all be thankful Jesus wasn't of the same fearful mindset.
I've rejected several comments today for no punctuation or capitalization. The keyboards do come with those keys. :)
I'm a babysitter, and I spend a lot of time watching Nick JR, Noggin, and all those kids channels. The more I watch, the more I wonder-- what's so bad about these shows that the Duggar kids can't watch them?
Certainly, too much of anything is bad-- as the Duggars reminded us, recently-- but, come on, one episode of Dora or Blues Clues a week won't kill a kid's soul.
I've tried watching the shows through a Duggar-lens-- and there are certainly some shows they would avoid (Hannah Montana, for one, the Fresh Beat Band, and probably Yo Gabba Gabba for the dancing), but I find the baby shows to be completely innocent. One boy I watch LOVES the show "Dinosaur Train" (before Sesame Street), which has the same quality of information you'd find in a museum that the Duggars would no doubt make a bus trip to.
I just don't get how watching these shows is any different than the show the Duggar kids were just on (I forget the title)... has anyone else been subjected to hours of "back pack, back pack," and wondered the same?
As a mom who myself doesn't have cable programming for my children, I can answer some of your questions on perhaps why the Duggars don't let their kids watch regular TV.
For starters, commercials. I absolutely despise them. Even one day of my kids watching Nick Jr. with the accompanying commercials has them asking me for every sugar cereal and new toy out there. The ads are carefully crafted to make kids want these things, and they work. Weeks of this on end would create the exact opposite of what I'm going for in my family culture. Our family values living simply and eating a wholesome diet. Watching commercials is counterproductive to this. Plus, the commercials feature trailers for more shows, which my kids then want to watch, and it spirals from there. This would definitely affect the what the Duggars are going for as well.
The second reason is that every show has its particular values that are emphasized in its particular storyline, plot, etc, that aren't always apparent at first glance, even in innocent children's shows. Sometimes they just run counter to what I'm working so hard to teach my kids on a daily basis, and I just don't need the undermining. I know this is a reason the Duggars have mentioned. Some of the shows out there I do like, but I've learned from experience that it is so difficult and time-consuming to constantly make sure that they're only watching the shows I want them to and not watching anything else. They always, always end up watching other things too because it's so hard to control. It's easier to just not have it at all.
So the solution we have that works wonderfully for us is we just buy DVD's of the shows we want our kids to see and put them on when we want them to watch it. No commericials, no other shows coming on right after, etc. This is what the Duggars do as well. It gives the parents more control that way - which in my book is a good thing! Plus we aren't paying the cable company for tons of shows and channels we don't want.
Then there is the simple fact that we don't want our kids watching TV much, we want them playing, being outside, being creative, reading, working, etc. The TV interferes with these things every time we've had cable. I've heard the Duggars mention this as a benefit and reason also. Hope this answers some of your questions.
Curious. When do you all think Michelle will announce No. 20? I think she is pregnant but will hold off the announcement until she is sure everything is going well and because of all the criticism she thinks she may get. My quess is around the holidays.
I was the anonymous poster who brought up the TV issue just recently, btw. I'm going to sign this to make things easier.
Thanks to the poster for explaining her take on the situation, I just want to clarify that I didn't mean the Duggars should pay for cable just for Nick JR-- I just was wondering whether they would watch the shows, whether it be on DVD, online, or the old-fashioned way :)
I didn't think of the issue with commercials: ITA, Nick and Disney are horrible with their commercials. However, PBS (my favorite) is free and does not have commercials a la Nick and other cable channels.
Going back to my original question, do the Duggars actually watch videos of kids shows? Or do they only watch videos of their old favorites? Some people have mentioned that the Duggars watch Andy Griffith and westerns. I also saw, on this blog, that the Duggars sometimes watch football... which, to me, conflicts more with their ideologies than DJ Lance dancing.
Perhaps we'll get to find out what the kids do watch during the "daily routine" episode that's supposedly coming up.
I'm pretty sure they don't watch mainstream TV shows, even on DVD, because they want everything their kids watch to be character building/Christian based in some way. So the things they watch are probably videos most people haven't heard of. I've heard them mention creation videos.
Michelle flew in to DC for the one night (Friday night) to speak at the conference - a trusted friend (and nurse) stayed with Josie, and Michelle was back in Arkansas by the morning.
buy DVD's of the shows we want our kids to see and put them on when we want them to watch it.
____
To get to the video you have purchased on a DVD, you have to watch several commercials for other DVDs. Ya can't win. I record the shows I approve for my little guys, then put on just the show. We tend to watch the PBS, so there aren't commercials. We also watch Nature and recently the Solar System series, which the 6 1/2 year old finds fascinating. Not sure the Duggars would like that one as it explains the evolution of the Solar System.
To get to the video you have purchased on a DVD, you have to watch several commercials for other DVDs.
########################
Very true. But these don't cause nearly the same problems because they aren't generally peddling junk food or toys, and the other DVD's they advertise aren't "coming right up!" after the show - I'd have to go out and buy another DVD to see the shows they advertise. My kids never ask for the shows that are advertised on the DVD's, so it's still a much better solution for us. And the Duggars just don't watch mainstream shows so they probably aren't bothered by any ads that are on their videos.
Noggin (now Nick Jr.) has ZERO commercials. DVDs have ZERO commercials. Besides – sheltering from something doesn’t build much strength against it. I certainly never expected to get what I saw on tv – my mom stopped that quick BY NOT GETTING IT. I learned quickly to not bother with commercials and I’m not easily influenced now as an adult. Same with the availability of tv or the upcoming show preview. I was taught to turn it off and tend to responsibilities. Now, I do. Talk about missed teaching opportunity.
I just don’t see why something has to be Christian-based to make it into that house Plenty of things kids shows do not contain stuff they don’t like or offend their sensibilities, even if they don’t directly involve church. Neither does a casserole – but you still eat it!!! What’s so horrible about learning about animals, letters, numbers, other cultures, geography, kindness to others, patience, rhyming, shapes, etc? Like everything, moderation is key, that’s all.
And if they truly watch Westerns – Kudos on sheltering your kids from a dancing furry monster while letting them see people shoot each other in a dual! WAAAAAY better!
As to the Duggars not allowing their kids to watch TV, and only allowing them to watch Christian-based movies or shows: If I knew they were encouraging their children to read, read, read and explore the wider world instead, I'd be thrilled. Sadly, I don't think their children are encouraged to read widely either, and that to me is a much greater loss than missing out on some tv shows.
When I was younger, my dad didn't allow a tv in the house. We finally got one when I was around 12, and after that, we could watch one hour during the day before he got home, and one hour during the evening. However, our house was absolutely filled with books and we were allowed to read whatever books caught our fancy. My dad read us kids a bedtime story every night when we were little, plus both my parents were avid readers so they set an example by doing.
I don't think anything can quite open your mind to the endless possibilities and fascinating other worlds out there than reading a wide variety of books. I feel sorry for any child who isn't given the opportunity to explore the world of reading.
I don't think anything can quite open your mind to the endless possibilities and fascinating other worlds out there than reading a wide variety of books. I feel sorry for any child who isn't given the opportunity to explore the world of reading.
-------------------------------
Yay!!! I was brought up reading. Not only do you get a good story but you learn about things too.
How many of us read Little House on the Prairie? How awesome were those stories?
How can they NOT read the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe? Such a good allegory.
There are so many good Christian books now too that you can find a Christian mystery, romance, suspense, etc.
IMO its Gothard's idea of knowledge vs. wisdom. Reading also fosters imagination. Did any us really know what Nancy Drew looked like? Yes she was described but we all have different visions of her.
There are many good Christian dvds also that teach kids values. My favorite is Veggie Tales. They not only teach Bible stories but values too, ie it's wrong to lie, treat people the same, be happy with what you got..
I don't expect them to read "Gone With the Wind" but The Chronicles of Narnia..how can you find fault with that?
"How many of us read Little House on the Prairie? How awesome were those stories?
How can they NOT read the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe? Such a good allegory."
They do. In the show where they talk about decorating their new home, Michelle said the girls wanted their room decorated in the theme of their favorite books, Little House on the Prairie. I have also seen the C.S. Lewis books on their bookshelves in other episodes, back when they lived in homes that had bookshelves.
In addition, you can go to ATI's website (which is the curric the Duggars use), and their list of recommended reading includes classics, it's actually a pretty impressive list. I don't know if the Duggars are reading all these or not, but since this is the curriculum they use, there's a decent chance they are.
I think there's an assumption that the Duggars don't read anything that isn't from a Christian publisher. The evidence shows that isn't the case. Michelle has also said that she doesn't like books being out, she likes them to be tucked away in cabinets. So that could be why we dont' see many books out.
I just thought this was interesting, but I was listening to a podcast interview with Jim Bob at the Voters Value Summit and he talks about a lot of different things, including the fact that Michelle did not come in with the family on the bus but flew (which shows that she probably wasn't away from Josie for very long) and also that the family went to the Holocaust museum, which I thought was pretty impressive.
You can listen to it here: http://www.keepbelieving.com/blog/2010-9-20-interview-jim-bob-duggar-19-kids-counting/
Re: JimBob and the Holocaust museum visit: It was probably the best history lesson they've ever had.
No arguments from me on that statement!
re:Books
When they went to the school and the kids asked whatever (I am really bad with names sorry) girl went what books she read.
She named a book about dating and some books about a priest that sounded like a mystery type of book. She named those books after some hemming and hawing.
Even if Michelle like the books to be put away you would think that one or two would be out every now and then if they were readers. Right now I can see three books plus my e-reader.
Sorry I just can't believe they encourage the kids to read.
If the kids were ever actually reading, and not skating all over the house in Heelies, or sliding down stairs, or riding scooters in the house, or rough housing with their siblings...I really DO think we would see it.
I have never ever seen a book in the house,except Joy reading The Boxcar Children once last year.
Just because we don't see them reading doesn't mean they don't, but enough stuff that they do is taped that I kinda doubt there is much reading happening around there.
After all, 'Before Prince Charming' (or whatever the name of that book) is Jill's favorite. Notice she didn't mention the Lion, Witch and Wardrobe or To Kill a Mockingbird (surely on the banned book list for ATI).
I have to wonder if, at the holocaust museum, it occurred to Mr. & Mrs. Duggar that a factor in the rise of Hitler's power was a mindset of blind, unquestioning obedience to an authority figure who had a vision of what he believed to be righteous?
Teaching children to develop their own individual conscience (rather than merely parrot their parents') and using critical thinking skills is not exactly on the Gothard curriculum.
When they went to the school and the kids asked whatever (I am really bad with names sorry) girl went what books she read.
She named a book about dating and some books about a priest that sounded like a mystery type of book. She named those books after some hemming and hawing.
********
She was asked what her FAVORITE book was, not what books she had read. (Which why the pop up was so stupid, but it did cause the drama and the internet myth that the kids never read so I guess TLC got what they wanted)
*******************************
I have never ever seen a book in the house,except Joy reading The Boxcar Children once last year.
You must have missed the last season while they were in Little Rock. Several different shows had the older girls sitting on their beds reading.
In addition, you can go to ATI's website (which is the curric the Duggars use), and their list of recommended reading includes classics, it's actually a pretty impressive list. I don't know if the Duggars are reading all these or not, but since this is the curriculum they use, there's a decent chance they are.
-----------------------------------
Do you have a link for that? I have looked for it the past several hours.
Thanks
"I have to wonder if, at the holocaust museum, it occurred to Mr. & Mrs. Duggar that a factor in the rise of Hitler's power was a mindset of blind, unquestioning obedience to an authority figure who had a vision of what he believed to be righteous?"
-------
GREAT point!!! I only wish I'd thought of it myself!
SOS reading list
Start here:
http://www.learningthings.com/blog/index.php/switched-on-schoolhouse-curriculum-overview
Scroll down till you see this:Here is a list of electives offered in the homeschool curriculum:
Takes you to this web page:
http://www.learningthings.com/articles/
On this page I picked a high school grade at random (9th)...
and got to this page:
http://www.learningthings.com/articles/9th-grade-school.aspx
From there I chose the fiction literature and landed here:
http://www.learningthings.com/articles/Classic-Fiction-Novels.aspx
I picked HIGH SCHOOL
http://www.learningthings.com/items.asp?Cc=HIGHSCHOOLFICT
It's a rather large list.
I laid it out this way instead of just popping the end link so you would see how I got there.
I have watched this show for many years and lately I can help but think that Josh is getting very conceited and full of himself, The last show where he was 1hr late he had to apologies was rude. He disrespected the camera crew, the show and above all his family. when anna called him it was as though she was afraid to tell him to get his butt in gear and be on time. You never see or hear anything from the other kids because their focus is on the family, not one person like Josh is.
I was under the impression that Switched on Schoolhouse (SOS) and Gothard's ATI program are NOT the same thing. I seriously doubt that many of the books that are on the SOS reading list are approved reading for Gothard. The SOS list is just recommended reading for SOS. We don't know what Gothard approves of besides The Reverend Spy and Before You Meet Prince Charming. Except maybe Little House.
When the girls were at the elementary school, they were asked what their "favorite" book was, not to name some books they'd read. That's why Jill hemmed for a minute, which I would also do if someone put me on the spot with a question like that I hadn't thought of before. I couldn't tell you what my fave book is right at this moment either without thinking about it for a minute.
As far as being seen with books, I noted that while the kids were being filmed at the house in Little Rock last summer, the older girls were seen, several times, reading books on their beds, thick ones at that. I think assumptions are being made that the kids "don't read" when they obviously do. How much, we don't know. Mrs. Duggar said during the elementary school episode that they all love to read at their house and really encourage it. I'm sure they censor the types of books more than most of do, though. Some people are assuming that the amount the kids read is equal to the amount we've seen them filmed reading. This just can't be considered an accurate assessment of actual reading time.
I don't think the amount they read is equal to filming. Have you ever seen anyone read to the "little ones?" Other then the girls, they could have been reading the Bible, has anyone seen anyone read?
We have seen them climb on stairs, over each other, on kitchen cabinets. We saw Joy-Anna throw hangers at one of her sister. We have seen Michelle breast feed on a float, in front of kids, in a car (kinda sounds like Green Eggs and Ham) In all that time they have never been able to get footage of a person sitting down and reading for the enjoyment of it?
"I have to wonder if, at the holocaust museum, it occurred to Mr. & Mrs. Duggar that a factor in the rise of Hitler's power was a mindset of blind, unquestioning obedience to an authority figure who had a vision of what he believed to be righteous?"
----------------------
You mean, something along the lines of "Obey first, ask questions later"? Because I believe Michelle said that's what they teach their children. A very dangerous way to raise children, if you ask me. Teaching anyone to obey without question is a recipe for allowing bad things to happen because you dare not question the supposed authority.
Yes, it's harder to raise children when they are allowed to offer their opinions, ask for clarification, and try to persuade you to their way of thinking. But I make the effort because I never want my child to end up under the influence of someone like Gothard.
They went to the elementary school to promote READING, and Michelle proclaimed several times what big readers they were, and how important reading is. don't you think it would have occurred to Jill that someone might ask her what she's reading? I figured she deliberately mentioned "Christian" books because she was on camera.
agilles 9012 said:
I have watched this show for many years and lately I can help but think that Josh is getting very conceited and full of himself, The last show where he was 1hr late he had to apologies was rude. He disrespected the camera crew, the show and above all his family. when anna called him it was as though she was afraid to tell him to get his butt in gear and be on time. You never see or hear anything from the other kids because their focus is on the family, not one person like Josh is.
_______________________________
Let us remember that this is a television show. There is editing and we do not always hear everything that is said or shown everything that is done. We have no idea if Josh apologized for being late or not nor do we know if the reason was beyond his control. I am from Texas and I was raised to be polite especially regarding being on time but I work with some people who in my opinion act as if they were raised in a barn.They show no gratitude towards others or apologize for their shortcomings. I think it just has a lot to do with certain people and how and where they were raised.Honestly we don't often hear the Duggars apologize for being late.They refer to it as "Duggar Time", laugh and continue on.
MOM IN TEXAS
There is plenty of time for rough housing and dumb, babyish field trips, but precious little time for actual learning, including reading.
What a shame.
Honestly we don't often hear the Duggars apologize for being late. They refer to it as "Duggar Time", laugh and continue on.
You know, if people are willing to put up with it, that's their fault. I respond to people who are habitually late by keeping to the agreed-on schedule. If we said we're leaving at 7:00, we "laugh" and we leave. You're late? Missed the trip? Too bad. That's YOUR problem, not mine. If there's a genuine problem or delay, you call and explain. If I can, I'll adjust the schedule.
I realize that TLC is footing the bill for all of the events and people the Duggars are late for, which is why those folks put up with it, but in real life, Josh would be staring at an empty room, wondering where everyone had gone.
Rudeness may be a function of how you were raised, but it is not an unchangeable fact of your nature. You can learn to be polite and timely at any stage of your life, just like losing weight.
"They went to the elementary school to promote READING, and Michelle proclaimed several times what big readers they were, and how important reading is. don't you think it would have occurred to Jill that someone might ask her what she's reading?"
She wasn't asked what she was reading, she was asked what her *favorite* book was. That takes a minute to think about. Using Jill's moment to think, and the fact that she named a Christian book, as evidence that the kids don't read enough, aren't encouraged to read, and all the other assumptions being made here, just isn't sound evidence to support these assumptions.
Using Jill's moment to think, and the fact that she named a Christian book, as evidence that the kids don't read enough, aren't encouraged to read, and all the other assumptions being made here, just isn't sound evidence to support these assumptions.
----------------------------
Have you ever seen them read? Other than the older girls in Little Rock. Have you ever seen mom or dad read a book to the younger kids? Have you ever seen a book laying around? Even a cookbook? Have you ever seen one of the boys reading? For that matter they don't read newspapers or magazines.You would think they would read People since they have been on the cover so much.
That is sound evidence to my assumption that reading and learning is not that important to this family.I know that there are lot of things in their life we don't see but after thousands of hours of taping someone would have been caught reading.
The whole thing about them going to the school to promote reading was a set up my TLC. I think this may be a do as I say and not as I do.
"In addition, you can go to ATI's website (which is the curric the Duggars use), and their list of recommended reading includes classics, it's actually a pretty impressive list. I don't know if the Duggars are reading all these or not, but since this is the curriculum they use, there's a decent chance they are.
-----------------------------------
Do you have a link for that? I have looked for it the past several hours."
Here's the link:
http://ati.iblp.org/ati/family/curriculum/contentoverview/contentoverview1-28.pdf?show=true
Look under the "optional recommended resources" for each wisdom booklet and there is the list of books.
There are obviously plenty of religious type books listed, but just a cursory glance shows that the list also includes classics such as the biography of George Washington by Washington Irving, Moby Dick, and others. Like I said, we have no idea if the Duggars are actually reading these books or not, but these are the books recommended by the curriculum they use, and have used for used. And yes, SOS curriculum is totally unrelated to ATI and the Wisdom Booklets.
Will sombody please explain the term NIKE as it is used on this site? I just started reading here and can't deciper it.
Lauren in TX
"I realize that TLC is footing the bill for all of the events and people the Duggars are late for, which is why those folks put up with it, but in real life, Josh would be staring at an empty room, wondering where everyone had gone."
I agree with your thoughts; being habitually late shows how little one cares about one's hosts, etc.
I think that this "Duggar Time" nonsense is part of the Dog & Pony show they have going on. Ya know, the wild and zany, Duggars, who are always late to things because they're just so much more awesome than anyone else on the planet!
Ah, yes, for you doubters, please let me answer your question, even before you ask it: No, they have never said that (that they are more awesome than anyone else and that's why everyone should just accomodate them), it's just how they generally act and as everyone knows, actions speak louder than words.
I'm a month to two late on this, but I just got around to watching the Duggar "Home Alone" episode (most of it) on YT. I am floored at what I saw:
Michelle sitting doing nothing (as usual), so no change there.
Jim Bob giving orders and tending to a kid here or there.
The girls doing all the kid care-taking, packing of clothes, food, taking care of tired kids on the bus, getting things ready for the family once they settled at their campsite in TX, taking care of kids again.
Older boys (and younger boys) carrying heavy items, mattresses, boxes of canned goods, etc.
Three or four huge busses/semi-trailers stuffed to the brim with all of their "stuff". Seriously? They need that much "stuff" to haul around to go to a camp meeting? I don't know if some people have that much stuff in their entire house, garage, and basement as what the Duggars dragged along to this camp meeting.
This particular family has absolutely no respect for anyone on the planet other than themselves as they are huge gas hogs,for one thing, (a lot of gas is needed to haul three or four busses/semis).
Honestly, watching most of this episode has demonstrated to me that it's all about them and their "expansion"; they act like there is no one else on the planet.
And yes, I am perturbed that Jim Bob owns so many toys that are in the thousands of dollars, but can't spend a few hundred bucks to pick up brand new twin-size mattresses.
There wasn't much in the episode that was redeeming and honestly, watching it on YT, seeing it with my own eyes, instead of reading about it, made me so sad and angry. I can't believe that this family is revered as some sort of an examplary "Godly" family; I don't see that at all. All I see is are parents who have enslaved their kids so that they can live out their own selfish dreams and glorify their child production ability. Their "lifestyle" has nothing to do with God, in spite, of all the "God talk" that they do.
What an eye-opening half hour. I've known large families, even super large families (we have a large family, we are both from large families); the Duggars are not about being a "a large family", they are about hoarding children and hoarding and collecting things and then taking them out to display to others.
Am skeptical about the Duggars being voracious readers based upon their poor language skills, including a simplistic vocabulary.
I love to read. I live alone and at home after work is when when I read my books. So I guess since no one usually sees me read that must mean people think I don't read.
If you are broadcasting your life on national television, and you WANT people to think you actually read, then you, as producer, will ensure that there is footage of you reading.
Also, if you read, usually you speak with better vocabulary, grammar and sentence structure than the non-reading Duggars.
I get that they were reading more in Little Rock, but those books could have been Bibles. Even if they were not, remember that the bulk of their stay there was during the winter and a very wet, chilly spring; not a lot of outside time in a confined space. I imagine naptime for the little ones became bible time for the older ones, probably Justin on up. I know they brought their violins and mini-keyboards, but was there the space to play music while the little ones napped, as they might be able to at the Big House?
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
"I realize that TLC is footing the bill for all of the events and people the Duggars are late for, which is why those folks put up with it, but in real life, Josh would be staring at an empty room, wondering where everyone had gone."
I agree with your thoughts; being habitually late shows how little one cares about one's hosts, etc.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Given the bad press the Duggars have received this summer (mostly due to the People article), TLC is in Damage Control mode with the shows these days. IMO, If there was footage of Anna on the phone with Josh communicating that he was late because he was selling a car, they would have shown it, putting him in a good light.
Given the nature of inconsideration this family has shown regarding punctuality (one of Gothard's 49 Character qualities, to boot), Jinger and Jessa really need to zip it and work on time management. Shoe some consideration for someone other than yourselves (adult Duggars who have to corral kids and those who fail to pack until the last minute - looking at you Jim Bob). This problem starts at the top and shouldn't be laughed at, but fixed.
Lauren in Texas-When an immodestly dressed woman walks by the girls holler out the word NIKE. The boys then cast their eyes downward until the woman passes. Supposedly the reason is so the boys won't be "defrauded" by the woman. Jim Bob speaks of teaching self-control from an early age. Why can't the boys have enough self-control to look away on their own?
"Have you ever seen mom or dad read a book to the younger kids?"
Yes. There is footage in several episodes of Michelle reading books to the younger kids.
"Have you ever seen a book laying around? Even a cookbook?"
Affirmative. On the episodes that featured their previous homes, there was plenty of footage of bookshelves full of books. The moving out special showed the kids loading up tons of shelves of books from the living room into boxes to move to the new house. Michelle has said that she prefers all books and toys to be put away in cabinets, so when they designed their new home, she designed it with cabinets with doors for the books. So there's no bookshelves in their new home. Not the way I do things, but hey everyone's different. In their new home, there are some books laying out in the desk areas upstairs, I've noticed.
"Have you ever seen one of the boys reading?"
Not that I can recall.
Its weird how much "PR" the Duggars do, yet they have no shame in breaking one of their 49 "commandments" - tardiness.
I guess they get a free pass to be late because they have the most blessings.
Anyway, another thing I think is very strange. They teach their kids to relate being obedient to "mom and dad's voice" as the same as being obedient to God's voice. I GUESS I understand the idea here.. but isnt it just a LITTLE strange to equate yourself on the same level as God? Their book says something like, "if you learn to instantly obey mommy, you will learn to instantly obey God" ... Yeah, right. That is just bogus in my opinion. It is not the same. You can't weave yourself into your child's idea of God.
Duggars and TV
In one of the episodes were they went to Pigeon Ford(maybe a outtake or a clip on net) they were watching tv. If I remember correctly Michelle said that they were watching animal planet and that the children loved it.
I love to read. I live alone and at home after work is when when I read my books. So I guess since no one usually sees me read that must mean people think I don't read.
========================
Ah, but there is one critical difference - you are not being filmed for a reality tv show (are you?). The Duggars are.
Come to think of it, there is very little footage of the Duggars sitting around visiting quietly with each other, maybe playing a game of cards or watching a video together. We don't see a bedtime routine. We hear they are night owls. We don't see bedtime stories being read to the younger ones. We aren't shown the girls relaxing on the couch and enjoying a quiet read.
Since it's not shown, it's not certain that it happens, or if it does, how often.
However, I can see why that sort of thing would not be filmed. For one, it's not interesting tv to watch someone sit and read to themselves. For another, I doubt the older girls have much time to sit and relax anyway.
Look What I Have said:
Three or four huge busses/semi-trailers stuffed to the brim with all of their "stuff". Seriously? They need that much "stuff" to haul around to go to a camp meeting? I don't know if some people have that much stuff in their entire house, garage, and basement as what the Duggars dragged along to this camp meeting.
=-------------------------------
To me, that was just more blatant show-off behavior. "See how blessed we are by God - he's given us such bounty that we can buy all this stuff!"
And agree, they are very bad at conserving the planet's natural resources. But that's the way JimBob seems to treat all of life's blessings -- casually, as if he deserved them and doesn't need to conserve them or truly treat them as something special.
"Have you ever seen them read? Other than the older girls in Little Rock. Have you ever seen mom or dad read a book to the younger kids? Have you ever seen a book laying around? Even a cookbook? Have you ever seen one of the boys reading? For that matter they don't read newspapers or magazines.You would think they would read People since they have been on the cover so much.
That is sound evidence to my assumption that reading and learning is not that important to this family."
Have you ever SEEN JimBob & Michelle having sex? Yet they have 19 children to show for it ... Just because we don't see something on a TV show doesn't mean it doesn't happen!
Animal Planet is on the same network (Discovery),so I imagine the Duggar kids watching it was nothing more than a pitch for the show in general.AFter all,if they don't watch tv in the first place,how would they have known they'd like to watch Animal Planet to begin with?
re:I do beleive that this is the family in which the father had a list of items to build a small house for his son and future daughter in law. The list was broken down to small items such as nails etc. I would not be surprised if one of the Duggar girls end up in a home such as this and be content even though they presently live in a rather large house.
--------------------------------
I kinda bet the girls would want more than nails and housebuilding items for gifts.They are not from such as frgual family anymore,at least not at this point.JMO.
Look what I have makes an excellent point - Michelle and JimBob do show alarming signs of a "hoarding" nature. Michelle hoards babies, and JimBob hoards toys, and the money from TLC has enabled both of them to fulfill their hoarding fantasies beyond their expectations.
Has anyone seen the new show on Animal Planet about animal hoarding and how unmanageable these people's lives become because they have so many animals they can't take care of them? Does anyone think that Jim Bob and Michelle might have this very same addiction except they are hoarding children instead of animals? Just saying.
I agree with the Duggar time issue. Jesus OTHERS Yourself, no? HELLO – responsibilities. It’s not charming to be constantly late nor to show your kids that. I realize they’re a big family – but one parent and the set of oldests should NOT be late. The other parent can be late being that they have the younger ones in tow. But they lack structure / outside pressure from the world to conform to much, and that’s a disservice to the kids. They’ll seem spoiled and lazy as adults (JOSHRemember how much whining Josh did over the “early” OBGYN appt for Anna? It’s called BUSINESS HOURS, grown-and-married-father! !). Also stems from going to bed TOO LATE, Mom and Dad included. So many dark circles under so many little eyes!
PS – trade in the iphones for for e-readers. What do they need those for? Service is $$$$$, they don’t access the net, and they all live under the same roof. So much for living “humbly” until TLC has product placement to do. That said, I don’t think the kids are any more or less eloquent than “outside” kids. At least their vocabulary is devoid of LOLs or OMGs. I DO think it should be BETTER than most, though, since they SHOULD be reading more. But still. They’re fine.
I agree that they can be compared to animal hoarders. The number of children seems more important than the childrens' needs. I notice this with large families that adopt every year. They like the attention that comes with a large family but somehow the children seem to lose out.
Am thinking it's a good thing Duggars and Duggar-likes aspire to small business ownership because it is unlikely, with their lack of education, communication skills, sophistication, poise, coupled with their disregard for promptness, they'd never make it in a bigger company.
Nice to be your own boss in that you don't have to compete with other potential job seekers to GET the job and THEN no one can fire you.
If your business tanks, just move onward to your next small entrprenurial adventure.
Bible sales is always an option.
"Am thinking it's a good thing Duggars and Duggar-likes aspire to small business ownership because it is unlikely, with their lack of education, communication skills, sophistication, poise, coupled with their disregard for promptness, they'd never make it in a bigger company."
The unsavory attributes listed above would make a small business fail just as fast, or even faster, than working as an employee. My husband has worked at a number of companies as a white-collar employee, and the number of people who he has worked with who actually possess some or all of those attributes listed above, and continue to keep their jobs, is truly shocking.
The Duggar boys, if they go into small business ownership, will find very quickly that one has to be courteous, prompt, trustworthy, and have decent communication skills, or you lose customers, fast. John and Joseph will need to learn a few things in the communication department, but they can do it. Josh seems to be doing ok despite his lack of punctuality, who really knows? I think they all have the foundation to be good businessmen if they want to be.
In this fundamentalist world, as many goods and services as possible are coordinated through each other. It's the distrust of the broader world that keeps even their business desires pretty insular.
Of course, we have noticed that they will gladly partake in the broader world when needed (8 months of premie medical care for Josie, hospital birth for Kelly Bates). They do only want CHRISTIAN doctors or dentists or whatnot though. I wonder what would happen if there was a Muslim neonatologist who was best in field at Arkansas Children's.
I don't know how many car lots and tree services and fix-it businesses these rural areas can support, particularly when the individuals living there are only supporting each other. I think Josh gets some traffic because of the show, but WHEN (not if, when) the show goes off the air, the interest will wane...and then what? I'd like to see him really make a living off selling those junkers.
People simply have more options in life if they are better educated or better trained (in trades etc). Jim Bob and Michelle have sold their kids up stream. Actually, since they want them slaving away at home forever, it is probably best to have kept them ignorant. After all, other families like this have "children" still living at home with no opportunities and freedom of choice at 30. Sad.
I would not want to do business with the Duggars, especially if the business was one that provided a service to its customers, a service that depended upon the intelligence and skill of the Duggars. One discussion with them, and this potential customer would be out the door, searching for a business whose owners had more to offer in the smarts department.
" Josh seems to be doing ok despite his lack of punctuality...."
@@@@
We don't know how much of Josh's car sales success is due to his business savvy.....or is it more of a curiosity thing on the part of people who stop by there to look at his used cars, hoping to run into "tv reality stars".
"Have you ever SEEN JimBob & Michelle having sex? Yet they have 19 children to show for it ... Just because we don't see something on a TV show doesn't mean it doesn't happen!"
Oh, there's no doubt in anyone's mind that Jim Bob and Michelle have sex (no matter how disgusting that image is in my mind right now). Let's not forget that every Duggar episode has to feature Jim Bob planting a big one on Michelle, dipping her as he is giving her a kiss. I guess we all need to jump up and down and applaud their teen-age hormone horniness. Lest not we forget that these are the same people that teach their kids "Nike". If I was the guy that runs Nike Shoe Company, I think I'd sue them for using my business name in such a demeaning manner. The Duggars sex life has ZERO interest to me, actually less than zero interest. The only thing that concerns me and other people is how their "sex life" affects their older daughters. How awesome it must be to know that every time your mom and dad have sex and get pregnant, you get to take care of their "meeting of the loins." As I already said, a very repulsive image imprinted in my mind, thank you.
The best part about this season is: No cousin AMY!!!!!
I like cousin Amy- she brings a something other than the same ole ole. She shows that you can different views and still respect someone.
I like her a lot more than I like Josh..She apparently can arrive at places on time, she thinks of others, she doesn't have to be in EVERY episode
The only thing cousin Amy brings to the show: her nonsense of being so cool and a fashion diva..
The best thing about Josh: is seeing how fat he is getting..
A bright woman, and a woman who truly treasured each of her 19 'blessings' would know better than to walk away from a baby on a changing table. EVER. For any reason.
Beyond odd that this family is over the top scrupulous about meaningless things (dancing, premarital kissing, for example), yet is so blase about tempting fate with an absolute oblivion to safety hazards.
This is one thing that has always bugged me about the Duggars is their ignorance/lack of even common safety issues. They are tryin to live in a fish bowel, or think that they have God protecting them 24/7. I've seen so many safety hazards, safety common sense hazards, and seeing safety danger and not even correcting the child/children. Also, lack of respect for other peoples property(the rented house). I don't know about you guys, but I was always taught respect for other peoples property, even if you were allow to do stuff at home, you still did not do that stuff at someone else house, restaurant, or hotel, and rented house or car. This is something that the Duggars are blind to or the older girls are tryin to correct, the younger ones but, maybe Mom & Dad stop them or remind them that, that is the parents job. Of which, Jimbob & Michelle are playing the pass the buck. So, in a sense, if a child got injured it would be no ones fault, it was an accident(of which could have been prevented). So, one could say they are ignorant to safety or turned a blind eye to it or throw it off as God punishment for not listening. One circle. You know the let them get hurt, and they will learn not to do that next time. I'm for prevention. JMO
The best part about this season is: No cousin AMY!!!
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Not YET. She went on the DC trip and posted pics of Judson Bates on her facebook a couple of days ago. Looks like they hit the Bateses' place on the way back, since Kelly gave birth when the Duggars were en route TO DC.
OH No cousin Amy is going to be on.... Ya, I believe she would try to get her "meat hooks" into one of the Bates boys...
I don't think Michelle left the baby laying on the changing table when she walked out of the room. I bet someone else was standing there. We don't see the entire room and we don't know who else was in the room.
I don't think Michelle left the baby laying on the changing table when she walked out of the room. I bet someone else was standing there. We don't see the entire room and we don't know who else was in the room.
=================================
I have seen this particular comment in a variety of forms pertaining to the Duggar tv show, usually in the context of defending the Duggars from criticism of one kind or another.
The real point is that we, the viewers, were shown Michele walking away from the room, leaving Josie unattended on the changing table.
That's the "reality" that was shown. If there was a helper standing right there keeping any eye on Josie, why did the producers choose to edit that out? For what purpose?
No, the Duggars claim that their show portrays their reality. Therefore, I'm taking what is shown and critiquing that. Michele is shown leaving her preemie unattended.
Either the producers don't care if they show Michelle in a negative light, or she did indeed leave the baby unattended (also negative). Either way, not a good thing.
Why would she not do such a foolish thing with a child of hers? The duggers do such foolish things all of the time like using the stroller down the stairs and other dumb things.
But when god has your six your always protected from your own foolishness. the saying was made for the duggers "god protects drunks and fools"
OH No cousin Amy is going to be on.... Ya, I believe she would try to get her "meat hooks" into one of the Bates boys...
----------------------------
Meat hooks really?
I don't think Amy will ever be the baby talking wife of a Gothard follower.
In the last episode, Jim Bob told Michelle how young she looks. In the same episode, Jill was shown changing diapers and discussing potty training. There is something very wrong with that picture. These young girls should be out experiencing all the beauty and fun in this world. They should be thinking of their future, with or without a spouse. They definitely should not be concerned about the potty training.
Kellys Baby is cute. I heard they had issues with the cord. I am glad hes made it out and is just fine.
Anonymous at 8:25, I agree. Neither Jill nor any of the older sisters should be concerned with issues such as potty training UNTIL they, themselves, become mommies.
As a mom myself (along with the many others here), it is MY duty to potty train my children, change diapers, and do the rest of the gruntwork that parenting requires. I have been a parent for 26+ years, have kids that are college graduates to the youngest being in elementary school, and at no time was it the responsibility of my older children to be miniature mommies or daddies. Yes, the older children DID bring a diaper when I asked and did change a wet diaper on occasion. My husband and I changed soiled diapers and washed the children. We kept them in our room as babies and toddlers; there was no night-time buddy system where we slept peacefully in our beds while our older children paced the floor at night taking care of a teething baby, a sick baby or child, or soothing one that just had a nightmare. Why? Because that's a parent's job.
It is unbelievable to me that a six-month old baby and all the accompanying responsibility get transferred over to an older daughter and that taking care of the baby becomes her "jurisdiction." Why do they even use this term? What they are effectively doing is transferring parental responsibility to another child. Do people realize this? I mean, I know that people on this board realize this, but do their supporters truly realize this?? Is this something that's commendable? Something that other people do? Have I been living under a rock? Seriously, how are these two people lauded as wonderful parents, parents to aspire to be like, parents that take a spot on "Good Morning America" to announce the next blessing and so on? Has the world gone mad?
If the Duggars believe "God's word" and believe that there is a time and season for every purpose under heaven, then they would have realized a long time ago that parenting responsibilities belong to the parents, not their children.
As it stands now, the older girls will be in their mid to late 20's before they can pursue higher education and that's provided that Jim Bob doesn't get a calling from the Lord that it's time for one of the them to wed a suitor picked out by Dad; most likely to seal a business deal.
My only hope is that the young couples who are looking at the Duggars as a family they aspire to be like open up their eyes and see the reality of what it's like vs. the shined up version that TLC presents. I can't believe that TlC stands for the "The Learning Channel."
What they are effectively doing is transferring parental responsibility to another child. Do people realize this? I mean, I know that people on this board realize this, but do their supporters truly realize this?? Is this something that's commendable?
------------------------------------
What I've seen when this issue comes up is that people in support of the Duggars' system say that this is the way families with a lot of children do it. That it teaches children responsibility, and that it's not really sloughing off your own parental responsibility to do such a thing.
However, I don't buy it because I grew up in a large family and my parents didn't put their responsibilities on our shoulders. We had jobs around the house and we had to be responsible, but not for parental duties.
Somehow, because it's clothed in religious language, the Duggars get away with having teenagers raise their children for them. It's most unsettling and to me, only serves to reinforce my decision to stay far away from conservative religion. It's definitely not for me. (LOL - although I think the feeling is mutual, as I'm an independent woman, speak my own mind, work out in the big bad dangerous Nike world and earn my own money, while at the same time raising my child and sending him to a heathen public school. Apparently, I'm going straight to hell.)
"Somehow, because it's clothed in religious language, the Duggars get away with having teenagers raise their children for them. It's most unsettling and to me, only serves to reinforce my decision to stay far away from conservative religion. It's definitely not for me. (LOL - although I think the feeling is mutual, as I'm an independent woman, speak my own mind, work out in the big bad dangerous Nike world and earn my own money, while at the same time raising my child and sending him to a heathen public school. Apparently, I'm going straight to hell.):
******************************
Ditto, Jane, up to and including going straight to hell!
I can't imagine any of the Duggars making it in big, bad sinner world. None of them would even get asked to interview for a job in a big corporation, muchless be able to successfully compete with other candidates.
The Duggar parents have done a magnificent job of preparing their kids for
a life that never wanders out of small-town Arkansas
a life that never allows them to try their wings to fly on their own
a life that discourages independent thought or action.
In short: a life spent as an eternal child who has no spark of imagination or curiosity.
Sad what parents can do to their supposedly beloved offspring.
"Amy is JUST 23"
*****************************
By Duggar standards she's no spring chicken.
The Duggar kids supposedly 'graduate' at 16.
Michelle became Mrs. Patriarchy at 17.
Joshie was married at what? 19? 20?
Wow, Cousin Amy.... time's a'wastin'...
"there was no night-time buddy system where we slept peacefully in our beds while our older children paced the floor at night taking care of a teething baby, a sick baby or child, or soothing one that just had a nightmare."
Can we all agree here that while we may disagree with the amount of responsibility we've seen the older girls have, we just DO NOT KNOW that the above scenario is what is taking place at the Duggars house? The fact checker in me just can't stand seeing this assumption made over, and over again.
The FACTS we know are these: The babies sleep in Michelle and JimBob's room until they are toddler age. Then they sleep in the girls' room. That's it, that's all we know for a fact.
Most babies that age sleep through the night, and sleep hard. Mine always did. Michelle's room is close to the girls' room. If they are sick, wake up and cry for any reason, we don't know that Michelle or JimBob aren't the ones getting up with them. My toddlers shared rooms with older sibs when they were growing up, because our bedroom situation demanded it. I always heard them if they woke in the night and took care of it, their sleeping sibs were hardly bothered.
Is it possible, even likely in some people's estimation, that the big girls are nighttime caretakers for the little girls? Of course it is. But we just don't know, and until or unless more information comes to us on that issue, it is simply an unproven assumption about the Duggars.
Regarding the sleeping arrangements and what transpires during a normal night at the Duggar home, all I can say is that there are some girls between the ages of 15-20 sporting some serious dark circles under their eyes. Maybe not all at once, but watch closely; you'll see them.
Just remembered that Jessa was complaining about running on 2-3 hours of sleep when she made the infamous "vow removal" gaffe. So on top of being caretakers, the girls were the chief wedding planners and decorators for their mother's made-for-TV wedding.
Regarding the daily schedule, I am about 95% sure Michelle said they woke up at 8, dressed, ate did their "quick clean" and were then settled down to their schoolwork. I'm sure the kids can read on the bus...oh wait, if they have a propensity towards car/air/sea-sickness, there's no way they can read in a bus, especially when it's traversing all those windy country roads. They complained about this recently; my first thought was give your kids some Dramamine, you fools! It's not as if this malady is a new occurrence.
It's true that we don't know whether the girls are getting up with the younger ones at night but the other day I was watching a recent rerun and I noticed a rocker in the girls' room. Why is there a rocking chair in the girls' room if no soothing goes on in there at night?
I recently completed my master's degree and my dissertation focused on Bill Gothard's religious movement and so I did extensive research on the Duggars and their belief system.
First off, Gothard strictly prohibits taking government assistance, so the Duggars have not, and will never take money from the government.
Second, the children's education is above adequate from a religious standard. Even their one-sided beliefs on science generally, and creationism particularly, would be no better at any religious school that teaches the same things. Realistically, the children are more well spoken then most young people. In addition, while the movement may shun some forms of higher education, let's not forget that the Bates met in college and Erin Bates currently attends college-- and they are in the same movement.
I am not in defense of this movement, or the Duggar's lifestyle. However, the criticisms I have of the way they choose to run their family have nothing to do with their finances or inability to educate their children.
The Bates family blog has a new entry, stating that the Duggars stopped to see the Bates family on their way back from the Values Voter/Award Acceptance in Washington DC.
According to the blog, JimBob gave the Bates family a ping-pong table and some "pic-nic" (sic) tables. I think that's great, but perhaps JimBob could afford new shoes for his own children and a decent mattress for the one sleeping on the flip-out cushion.
Realistically, the children are more well spoken then most young people.
**********************************
I would have to disagree with this. I have teens and twenty- somethings, and a lot of their friends over on college breaks, etc. When I listen to the Duggar girls speak, I think they would never be able to keep up in a conversation with kids I know of the same age, nor would they likely have enough worldly knowledge to make it in the classes I hear the college kids talk about. The late teen/twenty-ish Duggars speak more like 13 year olds than adults.
..."First off, Gothard strictly prohibits taking government assistance, so the Duggars have not, and will never take money from the government. "
@@@@@
Just because we don't see it happening on tv, doesn't mean it's not happening.
The Duggars could have taken government Medicaid assitance for Josie's medical bills, but we don't know one way or the other.
Just because they associate themselves with Gothard does not mean they follow the guidelines 100% of the time. It's similar to the Catholic church saying "no birth control", yet a good number of Catholics use artificial birth control.
The only people who know the truth about the Medicaid are the Duggars and the hospital, and no one is saying one way or the other.
"Why is there a rocking chair in the girls' room if no soothing goes on in there at night? "
I'm sure there is - the question is, who's doing it? Just because the rocker is in there doesn't mean the girls are the ones using it at night. When a baby/toddler has a room to itself, the rocker is in there, not in the mom's room. If the toddler wakes up, the mom hears it, goes into the baby's room, and uses the rocker. We don't know that Michelle and JimBob aren't doing this very thing. Maybe the girls are doing it, we just don't know. We can speculate for sure, but any conclusions we draw just can't be based on fact on this point.
"I recently completed my master's degree and my dissertation focused on Bill Gothard's religious movement and so I did extensive research on the Duggars and their belief system."
I completed my Bachelor of Science degree in 1994 and 90+ semester credits in other subjects (since we're leading off our posts this way), and I find it interesting that there IS anything to research on Bill Gothard and the Duggars because half the time they are Gothard followers and the other half of the time they deny that they have anything to do with him. Did you figure out which one it is?
Seriously, though, to say that the Duggars will NEVER take government assistance is really not realistic because Josie Duggar's bill has to easily gone over a million dollars and it is probably at the two million dollar mark considering how long she was in the hospital and re-admitted. I really don't think that the Duggars (or shall I say, Jim Bob Duggar) are "above" getting government assistance as far as getting their micropreemie's hospital bill paid. I don't know if any of us would be; let's be honest about that.
"Why is there a rocking chair in the girls' room if no soothing goes on in there at night? "
"I'm sure there is - the question is, who's doing it? Just because the rocker is in there doesn't mean the girls are the ones using it at night. When a baby/toddler has a room to itself, the rocker is in there, not in the mom's room. If the toddler wakes up, the mom hears it, goes into the baby's room, and uses the rocker."
**********************************
I assume that the girls rock the baby to sleep and soothe the baby because Michelle and Jim Bob don't have the energy to do so after their marathon sessions of Nike. Plus, Michelle also said on one of the episodes that she and Jim Bob are "night owls". The night owls are not getting up with the baby at the wee hours of the morning or in the morning - period. We can safely draw the conclusion that the dark circle under the eye girls are the ones doing the night care.
How convenient for the baby to not have his/her own baby room complete with rocker. Any parent who wants their children to get a good night sleep (which should be every parent) does NOT stick a crying baby with the children because once that baby wakes up crying, everyone in that girls room will be up and the older girls know that it is their responsibility to tend to the baby.
A parent does NOT stick a rocking chair in a room that will waken everyone else in the household. That's why people use the baby's room, a living room, family room, their own room, basically whatever room is going to offer peace and quiet and doesn't awaken everyone else.
It is obvious that Michelle is not the one getting up at night with a crying baby once it's handed over to a buddy/sibling. The reason why they don't address (answer it directly) is because obviously, this is how it's done in the circles they hang around with. It is standard procedure to use the older daughters as live-in babysitters/nannies. I might agree that she did the night-time care for the older children because they themselves were small. But ever since they reached a certain age and they had more babies, the tending to the babies at night became the domain of the older girls.
I've watched several of the newer episodes in which Michelle comes home with Josie, etc. It is very apparent that the household flows along smoothly with or without Michelle. The older girls say that their mother makes a difference when she's there and I believe that to be true because it is still their mother and they love her and her presence. But honestly as far as taking care of the younger children, cooking, cleaning, laundry, that is all being covered by the oldest kids. They trained them up well. They will know how to be domestic engineers and goddesses, but they shouldn't have had their childhoods stolen from them in the process.
Realistically, the children are more well spoken then most young people.
-----
I disagree with this statement. I think the children use very poor grammar and make statements, displaying a lack education. They are used to being on camera, so they do not appear shy.
Isn't the rule for passing on the baby to the girls room, determined by when Michelle gets pregnant? Didn't Jordyn get passed on at 6 months or so, hardly a toddler. Even toddlers and preschoolers have needs in the middle of the night. They get fevers, they have nightmares, they get tummy aches. I don't think Duggar children are immune to any of these things. I imagine it is the girls who are getting up with them. Michelle never looks like she missed an hour of sleep. Some kids are early birds and climb into bed with the girls. That has been documented. Isn't it the girls who dress, diaper, and bath the younger children? I'm not seeing Michelle doing any mothering other than with Josie and she seems anxious to pass on that responsibility as well.
"I assume that the girls rock the baby to sleep and soothe the baby because Michelle and Jim Bob don't have the energy to do so after their marathon sessions of Nike. Plus, Michelle also said on one of the episodes that she and Jim Bob are "night owls". The night owls are not getting up with the baby at the wee hours of the morning or in the morning - period. We can safely draw the conclusion that the dark circle under the eye girls are the ones doing the night care."
The only conclusions that can be drawn here can only be based on conjecture. Being a night owl or morning person doesn't have any bearing on whether or not a mom gets up in the night with her child, neither do "sessions of Nike". The little girls have all been toddlers when they were moved into the girls' bedroom, and therefore likely that they are sleeping through the night. Maybe not, who knows? But we just don't know, we need more information before we can make more than speculative assumptions.
As far as "dark cirlces under the girls' eyes", I have never seen those. I see girls that look happy and rested. The only one that looks tired to me sometimes is Michelle, and JimBob - he has bags under his eyes sometimes. I think perhaps we all see what we want to see here.
Isn't the rule for passing on the baby to the girls room, determined by when Michelle gets pregnant? Didn't Jordyn get passed on at 6 months or so, hardly a toddler.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
I remember seeing that Jordyn was still sleeping in Michelle's room just a little before Josie was born, so Jordyn was nearing a year old. I don't think Michelle's pregnancies are the crossover time, it's the birth of the new baby.
Remember the old saying "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy?" Please stop picking at each other. No more of the little jabs like my TV must be showing a different show and I don't know why blah, blah, blah. I know most of them didn't get through, but I'm even tired of seeing them. Be nice to the neighbors, please. You don't have to agree with each other but you don't have to take jabs at others for seeing things differently either. Thank you so very much.
In addition, while the movement may shun some forms of higher education, let's not forget that the Bates met in college and Erin Bates currently attends college-- and they are in the same movement.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Many of the people who are parenting children under Gothard's umbrella have college educations. Don't you have to be married and have a child before you can even apply to ATI?
The Duggars were not ATI when they married; they discovered the movement sometime after Josh was born, probably around the same time they proclaimed their Quiverfull belief system (that they deny, yet preach in the next breath).
We have no evidence of when the Bateses joined Gothard's ministry, but concerning higher education for their children, Erin attended ONE class last year; nothing more has been said about further education, even in her own bio on their family thread. It's a well known fact that Gothard discourages higher education, unless it is part of HIS doctrine, lining HIS pockets.
It is this logic that one can deduce that any talk of Jill becoming a nurse is a bunch of hot air. Nursing school, or community college to get in some GE classes she might lack to even qualify for an accredited nursing school (even aspiring to become a nurse/midwife) is out of the question; she may be taught by a heathen.
She might be able to be trained by the like-minded family doula, but I have no idea how (or if) that is certified, or how Gothard can train midwives on the internet.
They should stick to music, although it appears the Bateses have exhausted their options, given Erin's prior teacher was a professor at UT. I think the Fayetteville area would have the same problem; there are only so many acceptable teachers to go around for the sheer amount of kids the QF/Gothard believers tend to have.
I don't understand not wanting higher education for yourself or your children. It's not for everyone but shouldn't you be given a choice? I just dropped my son off at his university campus. There was not one Nike moment to be seen! All the students were walking with a purpose from class to class.
I was just a wondering...how come the girls don't holler NIKE when Mom & Dad are smooching & all touchy feely ?? Seems like seeing all that 'loving' could be bothersome to young folks with pent up hormones. I mean really their PDA's are sorta icky.
Just a saying...:)
Maybe the girls just like to have a rocking chair to sit in? They're comfy, even without babies.
Jeez Louise! I don't think those kids are well spoken at all! I teach English, and even my worst students don't use double negatives, misuse the past participle of verbs, don't use "ain't", don't use "made-up words".
Personally, I have always found the kids' expressive language skills appalling. It's pretty evident from listening to them speak that they are not very well read either. Typically, well read students express themselves with considerably more skill than students who don't. Granted, Jim Bob is no language role model, but not all of those kids have learning disabilities. Some of them are simply undereducated.
I agree with those that say we cannot know for certain whether the Duggars have accepted government assistance toward Josie's monumental medical bills. As far as I'm aware, neither JimBob nor Michelle have said directly to the camera, "we have not taken even so much as a dollar in financial assistance toward paying off those medical bills." Until they come out and say just that - none of us out here know the answer.
What I do know from having a friend who had some very high hospital bills after the premature birth of her daughter, which included two surgeries done shortly after her birth, was that insurance covers only part of those bills. They had to first pay their deductible (which I don't remember how much that was), then they had to pay a portion of the bill not covered by their insurance. They sought help through Medicaid, etc. Even so, they had to pay a huge chunk of their own money and both sets of in-laws helped them out with that.
I do know there is simply no way that the Duggars insurance policy is covering 100% of the medical bills for both Josie and Michelle. I also know that those bills have to be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not surpassing $1 million, given the length of time Josie was hospitalized.
If TLC is helping to defray those costs, that's still accepting financial assistance. If they Duggars are tapping into some available governmental program, I could completely understand them doing so. After all, they are taxpayers like the rest of us, and that's why we all pay taxes -- so that when there is a crisis such as this one, there's some sort of safety net out there.
As to Gothard -- the more I read about him and his beliefs, the scarier it gets. He is what I'd call a religious extremist. Based on what I've learned so far, I say the Duggars are totally white-washing their beliefs for television, and that's a form of lying. I feel badly for their children, being indoctrinated into such an isolationist and extremist form of religious intolerance, and I hope at least some of them see the light and break free as adults.
I have a feeling that Gothard himself is a very unsavory character.
We know that the Duggars own property, and have financial assets, that would preclude them from eligibility for Medicaid or SSI-Disability. You can check this out at the SSI website, or call your local social security office for general information. They don't qualify for medicaid, and won't unless they pauperize themselves.
I believe they have catastrophic health insurance, which would pay for most of the bills. The deductable shouldn't be a problem for them; they seem to be doing very well financially. The hospital may have written off the difference. They certainly got enough free publicity to make it a fair trade. But that's just speculation.
Whether Josie's hospital bill was paid by insurance or Medicaid is really ancient history and a dead horse as it's been brought up many times and the child has been out of the hospital for months. However, one fallacy in the above post brings me to comment. The Duggar assets are immaterial when calculating Josie's eligibility while in the hospital. There is one calculation while a child is in the home and a different one when the child is in an institution and the hospital is an institution.
Thank you for moving along from this topic.
Post a Comment