Free Discussion, June, 2014
Please use this for Duggar and Bates sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, politics, religion, or personal stories. If the comment is more about you or some other issue than the actual Duggars or Bateses or other families seen on the show, please rethink before sending. Thank you!
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242 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 242 of 242I know everyone is involved with Jill & Derick's' wedding, but what's happening with Ben & Jessa? Anybody know about that?
In Ref to Jeannine's comment on 06/24/2014 - I totally agree with you! Why in the world, was Michelle's wedding gown on display? It is understandable why Derick father's police uniform was displayed, he is deceased. Several weddings I attended in the past 10-15 years, the couple light candles in honor of the loved ones who are no longer with us.
I am assuming this will become a tradition (displaying M's wedding gown) for future weddings of her eight remaining daughters
I too have seen wedding photos of a deceased parent or grandparent at weddings. I think it is a nice idea, but I have never seen the mother's wedding dress on display. I would have rather seen JB's Dad's and Mother's wedding photo.
No one should be surprised by Michelle's dress being on display. The Duggar parents are about themselves and any way they can worm their way into their children's occasions.
Well Anna is almost always going to look pregnant no matter what because she always wears extremely unflattering outfits. She has no clue how to dress. The couple times she may have looked nice someone prob. had to have picked the clothing out for her. She posted a pic of Josh & John David playing chess and eek! look at John's hair...major receding hairline & already starting a combover. Poor guy.
Hello- I just recently started watching/learned about the Duggars. Please do not attack me for this question as it may just be my impression from the few episodes I saw. Is the mom, Michelle, sort of fake? I got the impression that she doesn't care about her children at all and she just pretends to care about them. Again, I do not know much about them so I am legitimately wondering what the deal is with her. Also, that oldest son, Josh, seems really creepy and sort of jerk-like. Again, is that just a fluke from the episodes I saw? Thank you in advance to any who respond!
Jenny, You are a very astute observer, considering that you have only been watching the Duggar Family for a short time. You, absolutely hit the nail on the head, and figured out what it took some of us a very long time to perceive. Welcome to our world!
Jenny, I think Michelle loves her children as best she can, but when you're that focused on yourself, it's hard to really be the kind of mother you and I imagine is optimal.
Thanks for the responses ladies! How sad this seems to be! Michelle looks blank and robotic when talking to the kids, and full of anger and rage at other times- I see it in her eyes. Jim Bob, for however many issues he has, seems to care about the kids more than she does. I really really do not like Josh- he made my skin crawl right away! His wife seems depressed as do some of his sisters. What is the deal with some of the weird vocabulary? Can't they have friends come over and just say our friends are coming over or are they not "allowed" to just have friends over it has to be "fellowshiping"? Not trying to be mean I am just trying to catch up here! Derrick seems really cool-I have hopes for him and Jill.
Jenny you have only recently began following the Duggars but I can say that you have observed a lot of what many of us know, Michelle is fake.I do think Michelle loves her children but I think Michelle loves the idea of pregnancy more than anything. She loves pregnancy, not motherhood. Sadly, I have seen this in other women. The nine months of pregnancy is bliss because they love the attention. But once the baby is born and then becomes the center of everyone's world, mom feels left out so it's time to have another baby so that the attention shifts again. It's a sad cycle for the children that are born. I truly believe that is what is wrong with Michelle.
And if Michelle wants to talk about the pill,she needs to discuss all aspects of it,instead of complain that it 'caused her to miscarry',without knowing that for sure.(It could have been for many reasons,like faulty dna being a big factor for many of them).
You're proving her point. When it comes to birth control, women feel the only choice they have is birth control pills. That's not a choice, that's Mainstream Society saying it's how women are supposed to live their life. Michelle Duggar is great for women who leave it up to God and have one, adopt or none. She helps validate our choice.
Jenny, your observational skills are top-notch. most people here seem to agree that Michelle has an obsession with babies, but loses interest in child-rearing as they get beyond infancy (she probably would have been the ideal surrogate other instead). she also appears to have little interest in her own children as people, and yes, she does come across as fake. JB at least seems to LIKE his kids (not just love unconditionally as any reasonable parent would). as for Josh, I also think he's a little creepy, but on the other hand, I feel a bit sorry for him in that he seems to be in over his head in life--he's a figurehead at work, he may have gotten married and had babies so quickly because he thought it was the right thing to do and might not have been his own true choice (but I do think he and Anna genuinely like each other). jmo...
Didn't Michelle borrow her original wedding dress from someone? I wonder how/when it came into her possession permanently?
I believe Jenny is correct in her assessment of Michelle. How much can you truly "love" your children, when you are constantly wanting another child & another & another. She spends more time lamenting the fact that she's not "expecting," than she does enjoying all the 19 children, & 3 grandchildren, that she has. There is something terrible wrong there. I would feel awful, if all my mom talked about was wanting another child,& another, ad nauseam. I don't mean a family with one or two children, we are talking about a family with 19 children. We saw them make an attempt at Michelle enjoying one,on one time with a few of the kids & it didn't play well at all. She is a stranger to them. You can see that when the little ones run to their older sisters when they need or want something, or are hurt.
As far as Josh goes, you are right on target there,also Anna is exactly like Michelle, in the baby hoarding dept. When Marcus was only a few weeks old, she was already saying on TV, that she had "baby fever," again. They love saying that MacKenzie, has taken on the role of "big sister & mom's helper." She had no choice in the matter. It's not just that she's a first born, she's in training to care for the kids that follow her. Very sad.
Alberta Rose said:
Michelle Duggar is great for women who leave it up to God and have one, adopt or none.
I think the point the previous poster was trying to make is that Michelle is disseminating incorrect, non-factual information about the pill when advocating for her own choice of leaving it up to God. I agree that women should have whatever choices they want, but Michelle is spouting off something she claims her doctor told her - i.e., the pill caused her to miscarry - which, by and large, is a notion not validated by medical research.
The previous poster was NOT saying the pill must be the only choice, but that when Michelle speaks about the pill, she is not educating her "audience" in a factual manner. So, she may be influencing women who believe what she says, when what she says is not likely to be medically correct.
Wow! This sounds so sad yet also fascinating. I guess that may be the appeal. I imagine, based on all of the comments I have read on here, that the show and family were much more appealing a few years ago. I do agree that at least Josh and Anna seem to like each other! Jill and Derrick seem like they will be just fine too. Jessa and Ben I am not so sure about. How sad that Michelle is so mentally ill when it comes to babies. I am guessing she has never admitted to having issues as it's all "God's plan" for them to have this many children (not my view but seems like their reason). I have been playing catch up with these people as best I can. I have heard the "God's plan" thing more than once. I have absolutely no problem with people believing whatever they believe so I will not trash that part of it.
So Jill & Derick do live in that house that was renovated on the show? Jill posted a pic in what I assume is their kitchen, someone posted the comment that they're living in the house that was renovated. Everything looks brand new, nice top-of-the-line looking kit. cabinets & stainless oven. Another pic of Derick grilling on what looks to be a back deck on an ultra-snazzy stainless grill w/ marble-looking countertop.
I recently watched on Netflix the episode where they went to New York to announce baby #18...could not help but notice Jimbob and Michelle walking hand in hand while the older kids each had to lug a couple of little ones. Ridiculous!!
Kelly , Michelle borrowed the original wedding gown, from Grandma Duggar. I am one person that doesn't think for one minute, that it was on display at Jill's wedding, for continuity of marriage in the family, or for vintage effect& especially not to honor Jim Bob's mom & dad. He has no respect for his late dad & has often talked disrespectfully about him, during the times they give their testimony, as well as in their last book. As far as his mom goes, he won't say anything derogatory about her while she's alive. That's they way it was with his dad. Also, grandma is needed in the laundry room at the present time.
I don't want to offend anyone,but I don't think for one minute that all women today, that are trying to limit the size of their families, are only using the birth control pill. There are more options available to women today, although I won't list them here. I know that some, still use the old "rhythm method." Also, not all women can take the birth control pill, for various health reasons, & it's not because they fear a miscarriage. I believe the opinion, that women only take the pill, is a very wrong assumption.
Jenny, you are absolutely right about Michelle's relationship to her children, blank & robotic at times & full of anger & rage at other times. Also, regarding the use of the word; "fellowshipping." I totally agree with you there. I have never understood why they couldn't say they were visiting with their friends the Bates. They have to say they were having "sweet fellowship." The kids will often say they were sharing fellowship with their friends. Not just having a good time visiting with their friends or spending time with their friends. They have to be "fellowshipping!" You picked up on that rather quickly.
Michelle Duggar is great for women who leave it up to God and have one,adopt or none. She helps validate our choice. I don't believe Michelle would validate the choice of any married woman, who chooses to have no children to continue a career, travel or any number of things that are of interest to her.
Michelle, would consider her ungodly
This birth control miscarriage deal is a case of the emperor's new clothes. JB and M say that when they learned the pill could cause miscarriages (which I believe is statistically unlikely), they stopped all forms of birth control. However, when they were warned as early as age 36 that having another baby carried risks (Michelle's words), they didn't stop having one pregnancy after another. Essentially, they went on to a nineteenth and twentieth pregnancy, despite being warned of a statistically poor outcome, both of which occurred. And they still haven't stopped trying for another pregnancy. So what's the deal? You can't have it both ways. The first and twentieth pregnancies both ended the same way. If JB and M changed their behavior believing that the first miscarriage was caused by the pill, then wouldn't multiple doctors' warnings about risks also mandate a behavior change?
JBoob and MomChelle always talk about how guilty they felt when they began to believe that her use of birth control pills caused a miscarriage. WHY, then, don't they feel guilty over the fact that their own insistence on continuing to have more children past a safe age (could have) caused the most recent miscarriage?
Sharla, this is just for all the new bloggers, if it's ok.
Just to be factual. Michelle was on the birth control pill, for the first three years of their marriage. She went off the pill, & became pregnant with Josh. They then decided, they wouldn't have another baby right away, so Michelle went back on the pill. According to her, that is when she became pregnant for a second time& miscarried. A Christian DR, & she always makes sure she say's, a "Christian DR," told them, the use of the pill caused the miscarriage. I personally don't believe that, JMHO, but I do work in the medical field. Unlike Jill, I have completed my nursing studies & am licensed, in more than one state. I find it extremely interesting, that no explanation was ever given for Anna's miscarriage, after MacKenzie, it was just never addressed. In fact, Anna's miscarriage was hardly mentioned, except when Anna was visiting her family in FL & went with her dad to the woman' prison. She was counseling women, I guess on how life isn't all that great on the outside either (I know, I'm laughing at myself too.) So there you have an interesting bedtime fable. Again, JMHO
Anonymous 7/2 @7:01 Excellent comments about the apparent indifference of Jim Bob & Michelle's re: the odds of miscarriage, even when it happened with Jubilee. I also think, about the suffering that Josie went through, as such a micro- premie. That child was so frightened of DR's offices & needles, as she apparently did have some memory of her time in the NICU. At least, that's what Michelle has said many times. However, when she visited the NICU at Little Rock Children's Hospital, with Josie, to show them how well Josie, was doing, she was pregnant with Jubilee at the time, she just said she was "hoping," that she would only be visiting again to show them Josie. She was "hoping" that she wouldn't need to be there again, as the parent of a child in the NICU. How wonderful for the child she was carrying, she was "hoping" her new baby wouldn't end up in the NICU. SHE, didn't want to be the parent of a child in the unit again!
I respect Michelle and Anna's human right to have as many babies as they want. But they don't respect my human right to not have any children at all (I've been on the pill for 12 years and I love it).
And thats what really grinds my gears.
Anonymous 7/1 @12:28pm Jim Bob & Michelle always walk ahead of the rest of the family, as the daughters & sometimes the sons, carry the little ones, or hold their hands to keep track of them. Michelle & Jim Bob are like teenagers holding hands & sometimes don't even appear to notice the kids walking behind them. The older ones are in charge of the little ones, in restaurants. They feed them, while Michelle enjoys her meal. Often times, they will cross the street in N.Y. & not even look behind them to check on the little ones. I've often thought the girls would have problems with their hips as they carry the little ones on their hip. Also, I remember a time the family went on a bike ride & little Jordyn needed to use the restroom. They all stopped, & grandma had to take Jordyn to the bathroom. Michelle just stood there where the bikes were, & waited for them to come back. Grandma, is in her 70's
Beth Anne: The previous poster was NOT saying the pill must be the only choice, but that when Michelle speaks about the pill, she is not educating her "audience" in a factual manner. So, she may be influencing women who believe what she says, when what she says is not likely to be medically correct.
According to about.com, there is a 2005 study that does say it can happen. about.com then says there is a 1995 study that says it does not happen. Mayoclinic.com sidesteps the issue, yahoo.com it depends on if you go to yahooanswers, yahoovoices, BabyCenter.com had several women sharing they did have a miscarriage while on birth control pill. In addition to Michelle Duggar and myself, I know of 15 other women who had a miscarriage while on birth control pills. We're all with Michelle Duggar, share with other women what happened to you instead of cowering in the Cone of Silence. If we can prevent just one woman from the heartache, shame and guilt of a birth control induced miscarriage, it's worth the scorn and condemnation heaped on us by 99 women.
I know its probably too early to say for sure how things are going, but so far I am just so disappointed. I had such high hopes for Jill and Derick. It looks like they will still be under the Duggar control for awhile anyway. They are living in a Duggar house, closer to the Duggars and it does not look like Jill has gone back to the birthing clinic yet. Are they really attending the Duggar church? Yesterday she had James with her and today she is with her family at a parade. Ugh. Does she still have to "baby-sit" her buddies? Fat chance she and Derick will get a life of their own. JB probably wants to make sure they can stay on the "right track" until he can totally trust them. She probably does not even realize what she is missing. I am so sad for her, but I wonder why I am (?)
OK, I just have to say this as the moderator. The birth control pill will NOT prevent miscarriage, Alberta Rose. A certain percentage of women (up to 25%) will have a spontaneous miscarriage. That women on the birth control pill have miscarriages is NOT proof the pill caused them. Women taking no medicines have miscarriages every day. Your personal stories are not proof of medical fact nor are the websites. Find some real medical studies that show a statistically significant increase in the number of miscarriages for women on the pill and we'll talk.
About.com, yahoo, et al are not reliable medical websites.
I just want to add that some studies show the miscarriage rate is thought to be as high as 50%.Not all women even realize it happened, if they have an early one.
Unlike with Jubilee,where they actually had fetal remains that could be tested,(idk for sure if they did any testing or not),a cause of death might could have be determined.But without those remains,outright saying that the pill for sure caused one to miscarry,is an impossible determination to make.
Sharla, I think you meant to say that the birth control pill will not CAUSE miscarriages, didn't you?
I have no idea where Alberta Rose gets her so-called "facts," because they are NOT accurate, that is for sure!
I truly meant to say birth control pills will not prevent miscarriage. Alberta Rose is claiming she allegedly knows 15 women who had miscarriages on the pill (highly unlikely) so therefore the pill caused them. I'm saying that they are simply part of the the 25 to 50% of pregnancies that end in miscarriage. That women get pregnant taking birth control pills and miscarry is not a novel thought. Women who aren't on it get pregnant and miscarry so will women who take it. What I was trying to tell her is that all women will miscarry for usually unknown reasons and it's not shock that some women on birth control pills will miscarry (as the pill won't prevent it as she seemed to think any miscarriage while on the BC pills were due to the pills so something must be stopping the regular ones).
Thank you Sharla, or stepping in with what I believe is factual information, re: miscarriage & the birth control pill. I work in an OB/GYN setting & take exception in particular, to the words "guilt & shame of a birth control induced miscarriage." It makes it seem, like the birth control pill can, & please note I say, "can" induce an abortion. We in the medical field, also regret that there is so much misinformation on the internet re:any medical issue.
Re: scorn and condemnation heaped on us...
I don't think anyone is being scornful or condemning of ANY woman who has a miscarriage while on the birth control pill. Miscarriages are devastating things, and anyone who has experienced one has my utmost sympathy. The issue is with your statement that "the birth control pill caused the miscarriage," which is what Michelle says during her presentations. What we are saying is that, just because some women who are on the pill have miscarriages does NOT mean the pill definitely caused the miscarriage. The "scorn" you mention is more of a concern that Michelle is using her fame as a platform to say something that is not considered medically valid.
I honestly don't get JB & Michelle's account of she was on the pill, got pregnant & the pill caused her to miscarry. Although that can happen, the science behind the pill & their story just doesn't seem to add up to me.
As in, how did she get pregnant while on the pill...she must have missed pills? I believe that back in the early 80s, the pill was the typical 28-day pack, even a bit stronger, and no 'mini-pill', so even then, if one pill was missed the chances of getting pregnant was next to nil as long as you took it when you remembered and carried on with the next usual dose. Would she admit missing pills if that were the case?
How did she 'think' she was pregnant? Maybe knowing she 'missed pill(s)' and maybe didn't get her period when she was supposed to? This would have happened at the end of the cycle during the sugar pills, so if she took a pregnancy test & it showed positive, she wouldn't start a new pkg. of pills the following week...right?
See, it seems all we can really do is speculate because to my knowledge, they've never given us that part of the story. Only that they went to the Dr., he said Michelle was pregnant but miscarried, and it was the pill that caused it. If they're going to keep referencing this story, I feel they really owe it to people to give ALL the details. IMO, either something's missing, or they're deliberately leaving some other details out.
In reference to Missy's comment on July 2, 2014: Michelle & Jim Bob lives a carefree life. I also noticed when the family are on one of their outings, its just the two lovebirds strolling along. When I first stumbled upon this series many years ago, in one particular episode the entire family was going to the local grocery store. Michelle exits the vehicle and leisurely joins several of her daughters in girl talk. Not once, did she glanced back to check on the younger children as they crisscrossed through-out the parking lot.
I found this to be extremely odd! As I observed other parents with children (especially ages 1-8) the parents gather the little ones, make sure they holding hands and walk together in a group.
Now, this really takes the cake, the bicycle episode. Grandma Duggar had to take the little one to the bathroom while Queen Michelle just sat back and relax.
Forget about all this buddy system jazz. Be a MOTHER! It's perfectly fine for your older kids to assist with the younger ones, but it is not their responsibility to be a full time mother, nanny, maid, cook, etc. Especially, when Queen Michelle is not employed.
I continue to watch this show, in case there is a break through with Michelle. Hopefully, in the future we will see the Queen actually partake in rearing the kids, household duties. If you believe in Miracles :)
Re: The comments from Albert Rose about the birth control pill studies. With the way things change daily in the medical field, I wouldn't put much stock in studies done back in 1995, or 2005. In medicine those studies are light years away from what is currently known now in 2014.
Tulip,that is a good thought.Did Michelle ever get a formal diagnosis of pregnancy,or did she just think she was pregnant? Was there a home test,and if so, how accurate was it? Did she stop the pill asap,after a formal dx,or did she just stop it bc she thought she *might be pregnant? Did she accurately explain what happened to the Dr., and he just presumed she had a miscarriage? Perhaps it was just an irregular cycle.
Without details,,it's just her and Jim Bob's word,and that doesn't mean much,imo.
I wonder if the reason Michelle doesn't do much manual labor is because she can't. Her internal organs must be so screwed up she'll rupture something or have a hernia.
Re:Sandi's comments. As far as if Michelle had had a formal confirmation of pregnancy, as well as all the other valid points you raise, I believe the answer is no. I don't think she had been to a DR for confirmation, & she has never gone into any detail about when she stopped the pill. The most important thing that Jim Bob & Michele want you to know is; the pill caused them to lose a baby. They themselves know this to be true because, a "Christian DR," told them so. That's all the detail they go into when giving their testimony. Over the years, as some people have questioned them, they have gone on about all the information in various studies that are now available. As far I'm concerned, you can find a study to validated almost anything you want to prove these days.
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