Free Discussion, August, 2015
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«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 641 of 641The Alert Academy founded by Gothard is a Cloe or rather patterned from that of the Hitler youth complete with boys wearing the kaki shirts banners & flags. When I logged on to the Alert website & saw the photos if the boys wearing that crap, plus the mission of the Alert Academy is to break down or destroy the zenith of ones personality so that boys become robotic It sickened me & I wanted to hurl. This Gothard Cult needs to be exposed by the media. It's time!
Jody, So accurately true. It's so obvious that Josh wants to be single. He's an adult. If he wants a divorce he will make it happen. Josh's decision is not the business of his stupid parents. I feel sorry for Anna however she's better off without Josh. Perhaps a divorce from Jodh will cause Anna to grow up. I've always believed Anna, Jill, Jessa & other Duggar daughters because of the way they've been raised caused their brains to remain in a childlike state of mind. This Giothard Cult just continues the road of destruction especially targeting women.
I saw a photo of Michelle, Jinger, Jana and a fan at Taco Bell. Jinger's arm looks a fraction of Jana and Michelle's arms..that girl needs a milkshake or two. She is looking quite gaunt. Michelle looks awful; like she hasn't slept in a week and has she aged. I take no pleasure in noticing these things; I'm sure Michelle is actually suffering quite a bit; but I'm not sure if it's because the show is over, and gravy train has left the station, or that her eldest son is a complete shock and disappointment to her? She doesn't seem understand that discovering the causes of Josh's behavior is most important.
"...35 million accounts and the only person being mentioned by name (as far as I've seen) is Josh Duggar."
Well, consider this. I would be willing to bet that every day at least one person who professes to be a Christian commits adultery. However, those people have not made a lucrative living by 1) publicly professing that their lifestyle makes them godlier than everyone else, even other Christians, 2) exhorting the public to support their lifestyle by paying to listen to them talk, buying their books, or donating to their unnamed "missions," and 3) publicly denigrating and condemning people who live a different lifestyle. When the minister in my parents' church was caught cheating on his wife, it was a local scandal. When Jimmy Swaggart was caught visiting prostitutes, it made the evening news and the front page.
But let's look at it another way as well. In 2014, 3,932,181 children were born in the US. Why was a baby born to a WalMart accountant and his stay-at-home wife worthy of weekly "bump" coverage in People magazine, a huge article/cover when the baby arrived, and multiple TV episodes leading up to and including the birth? I had two babies, and I did not receive a single offer for a magazine cover. Dang!
It's not rocket science to figure out why Josh Duggar is getting the coverage he is. What's more sadly evident is how desperate some members of this family are to remain in the spotlight and keep that easy money coming in. From his parents' inane suggestion that they should be given a show in which they "counsel" similar people, to his sister's publicly-expressed disappointment that her "platform" (i.e., guaranteed tv shows and magazine covers)for her pregnancy and birth experience has been "taken away" just shows that any notion of actually working for a living has long since been lost on this family.
While there are a few of the older Duggars who seem like they would be happy if no one even knew their name (John-David and Jana), there are more than enough greedy narcissists in that family (JimBob! Michelle! Josh! Jill! Jessa!) that it will be a long time before we hear the last of them.
Who can say if Josh would still have been a teenage pedophile and a sex-obsessed adult if he had been raised in a more traditional lifestyle? But those predilections, combined with the rigid lifestyle that was forced upon him, have had disastrous results. Sadly, as other posters have noted, his parents are unlikely to acknowledge that fact, instead blaming someone/something/anything else as the cause, retreating even further into their religious fanaticism and forcing even more restrictive behaviors on the remaining children.
In the meantime, Josh and his parents are simply reaping what they have sown. Oh, wait, there's a Bible verse about that isn't there?
Wasn't Ben 19 when he and Jessa got married? Can you look at Josiah and think, this guy is ready to tie the knot?
It's clear that both Jim Bob & Michelle suffer from daftness. Their heads are not in the clouds they are somewhere else within the kingdom of the creepy Gothard Cult.
When one lays down with dogs they get up with fleas. This is Josh Duggar & Jim Bob Duggar. These two have christened themselves as the be all & end all of Christianity. Both are clueless about Christianity & both are just well, not very bright. Every time they open their mouths it's always foolish ignorance on parade.
Hey when one is on a reality show & lives in a glass house touting they are perfect Christians that the entire world should live by their standards, well, you know the rest.
It goes to show you that this cult of beliefs goes from "0-100" in a few short weeks; by that I mean their unmarried, even adult children aren't permitted to live at all; then they spend a short amount of time with an approved person by their fathers, always in a crowd, and never one on one; marry that person who IS A STRANGER to them and immediately begin having children in the mix and ALOT OF THEM right away. What happens if shortly after the marriage, things aren't at all like either of them had perceived? They, then are quite stuck in an undesirable situation with lots of innocent kids involved, like Josh and Anna. I would think that Josh was disappointed in his life with Anna early on, but didn't have the guts or the ability to "undo it" soon because of his wife's "baby obsession". It's a very real potential disaster for these kids who marry strangers. A very bad practice if you ask me.
This is the most powerful piece I've read about Anna Duggar's situation: http://www.people.com/article/virginia-woman-blog-post-about-anna-duggar-goes-viral?xid=rss-topheadlines
Re: NoOneSpecial's comment about JimBob and Michelle retreating further into and clinging more tightly to their fanatical beliefs, instead of re-evaluating them...
Dead on. And it reminds me of a fictional, yet disturbing movie that is a weird favorite of mine - "The Virgin Suicides." If you've never watched it, it's creepily reminiscent of the Duggar isolation (though the sisters did go to outside school) and, instead of re-thinking the way she is raising and controlling her daughters after certain things happen in the movie, the fanatical mom doubles down on the control and isolation until the girls couldn't take it anymore.
The Duggars are a powder keg situation for sure!
re: the Patheos article. It seems that now anyone who even associates with the Duggars at all will be under intense scrutiny. I bet if all this stuff is true the guy's RU program and possibly church will now fall apart. No one will touch any of those guys with a 10 ft pole
I saw a pic of Jim Bob leaving what appears to be a bank. The stern expression on his face was kind of scary, so much anger in his eyes. He looked like the mean identical twin of the person who was on TV.
I would hope that John David, asked by his father, Jim Bob, flew down to Gainesville, FL airport to pick up Anna's mother and deliver her to Arkansas at her daughter's house to be WITH HER....! Where are YOU, Kellers? I believe they are sinking even lower in my opinion of them than the Duggar parents at this point. If I were Anna's father, I would be driving up to Arkansas "with a shotgun". Jim Bob sold Anna's father "damaged goods" in Josh...what if this had been Anna's past? Would the Duggars be so forgiving of Anna or would they have put her on a Greyhound bus back to Florida? (and kept the kids for Jana to take care of for Josh?) I would think that the Duggar/Keller contract of marriage between the father is NULL AND VOID at this point. Cough up the $$$ Jim Bob!
" I recommend that he retreat into obscurity somewhere, get a respectable blue collar job, and concentrate on getting up in the morning, doing an honest day's work, spending evenings helping his kids with their "public school" homework, going to bed with his wife, and repeating the scenario the next day and so on and so forth."
Maybe that aspect of the RU program would be good for him after all. If he even just got out of it the habit of waking up early and working all day.
Someone in the Duggar family deleted Josh's Facebook account.As soon as I noticed that I was one less friend I realized it was his account gone.
Re: the reference to "The Virgin Suicides" - excellent parallel. And, tragically, like the mom in that movie, the Patriarch's ego will never allow reconsideration of all his "spiritual leader/coach" playbook. Stupidly, as we have noted here, he will simply double down on his efforts to absolutely control his quivers so that all 19 are proudly JimBob-auto bots. He needs this kind of glorification to feed his life long insecurities. No smart, secure man would be attracted to Patriarchy in the first place. And no intelligent, capable woman would tolerate such a denigration of her gender.
"virgin Suicides," meet "Dumb & Dumber".
Re Heart in Florida's comment about Jinger looking gaunt, I noticed the same thing. She is looking way too thin. Maybe it is a reaction to stress. I am sure things haven't been too wonderful in the Duggar home lately!
Buckeye, As usual great post. However Jim Bob & Michelle are both too indoctrinated within this dumbass Gothard Cult to ever break from it so Jim Bob will continue to brainwash his kids into becoming robots with no education & no life plan. I guess Jim Bob & Michelle's long term plan is to continue isolation of their kids until the reach the age of retirement. After all when these two idiots reach old age, they will need their robot children to take care of them.
Tammy, Not surprised Josh's account was deleted. The Duggars are so predictable. Count on the Duggars to always reject accountability & to always take the Cowards way out.
They are still treating Josh like a young teen, yet he's a 27-year old married man with four children who had a 6-figure job that put him on the national stage with presidential candidates (that's scary!). There's no way he and Anna are in charge and making decisions right now. Jim Bob and Michelle are speaking publicly for the couple and most likely decided on the venue for his treatment. Perhaps Jim Bob and Josh made a deal that Josh goes to this center and Jim Bob pays Anna's expenses for six months. Jim Bob also probably thinks Josh's children now belong to him and is basking in his control.
$7500 is dirt cheap for a six-month residential treatment facility and is another indication that the place is a sham. Top notch residential rehab treatment would cost more like $7500 a MONTH.
Jim Bob is probably too distracted at the moment to be interviewing potential husbands for Jana and Jinger and that may be why Jinger is getting thin. Maybe she realizes her future is bleaker than she thought.
Where was the Jinger picture? (and after all this time it still reads as if it rhymes with "ringer" to me)
This shows who is to blame!
My Ex Was Raised Like Josh Duggar — And They Turned Out The Same
http://www.yourtango.com/2015280119/my-ex-was-raised-like-josh-duggar-and-he-turned-out-the-same
I have a little bit different take on some of the Gothard teachings. I believe Gothard, Jim Bob, and SOME of the leaders (at the least) are not even in this thing for the belief system. Most of the older generation of this cult were not even raised this way and, I believe (just my opinion of course) they don't even buy all the extremeness themselves. Its not about religion or a belief system - it is about money and control. They just espouse this crap because it gets them what they want. Its a lifestyle, a social structure, complete control of your family, etc. Its mostly about money, however. They make money off of seminars, books, conventions, home schools, camps, etc. (Its an industry/business if you will). "They" scratch each other's backs. Some of them do different things to make this money off the cult, but you get the idea. I think SOME of the older generation actually believe in the teachings, but many do not; especially most of the leaders. The younger generation, however, mostly believe in the teachings somewhat, because they don't know anything different. Some day, some of them will, however. Some of the children from the large families will have to get outside jobs and the exposure will spread. In the meantime, some of the leaders make a lot of money without having to work very hard and while enjoying somewhat of a "rock star" status among their followers, however few or many that might be. (I'm sort of bad at explaining in writing, but I hope I am making at least a little sense).
Everyone is saying that Anna "should do this or do that", "think" and act like a woman who has some self respect...well, we all should realize that Anna hasn't been brought up to actually "THINK" nor was she brought up to be a real, grown up woman. She was bred to stay child-like, naïve, and to always submit to the "penis in the family" no matter what. She is incapable of doing anything on her own will or discerning abilities. She simply doesn't possess them. So sad for her.
Willow,
I enjoyed your analysis and I think you may be spot on! This cult is essentially a business model, not unlike cable news. The sad thing is, it prevented the kids from getting any real skills. It's more of a pyramid scheme where the people at the bottom feed the big guy at the top and it is often expensive rather than profitable for the lower tiers.
Great post, Buckeye. I agree with you that Jim Bob's rigid adherence to the patriarchy philosophy is just a symptom of his vast insecurity. His emotional voids are so huge that his appetite for power and control is insatiable. Sadly, his family is paying the penalty for his inadequacies...sins of the father paid by the children. Yuck.
The money/business part is an excellent point. Interestingly, most of the people using the teachings are actually quite poor or at least have very little money.
Willow,
I enjoyed your analysis too, although along with the money and control, I think I would also add sex. This cult parallels the FLDS in so many ways.
It looks the People's love fest with the Duggars (and the Kellers) is over. Very critical article about the family and their beliefs. They've really turned on them.
And what will it take for this family to get real help/counseling for a family member if needed. It's not too hard to believe that someone in that house could be suffering from depression, mental illness and a myriad of other psychological problems. With all the stories that have come out, I wouldn't be surprised if a mental health professional has offered his/her services to the family, but I'm sure they would never take them up on their offer.
I would add not just money and sex,but the abuse of women and children,many times in a sexual way.Perhaps physical abuse,too? This cult is set up to help hide and cover those things when they occur.I can see someone joining the cult in order to hide this type of thing going on with his wife and children.These ppl don't tell on each other,and they even help each other hide whatever they have done.Recall Michelle saying they knew families that had been thru things much worse than what Josh had done? There you go.
There is an article stating the Pastor where Josh is getting treatment helped to hide a sex offender overseas,so he wouldn't be prosecuted here in the US.I'll post a link if I see it again,of no one has done so
So much discussion regarding Anna Duggar. Is she really that brainwashed into believing she should just whistle a happy tune & continue to ignore Josh's deliberate & sick behavior? Will the Duggars encourage Anna to quickly become pregnant with #5? Anna's parents are slugs to ignore her. Before marrying Josh, Anna stated that she was college educated. Did she attend Crown College, or College Plus on line? Neither one is accredited. As a Mom & with her Fundie upbringing, I feel so bad for the children of Josh & Anna because they too will be raised with minimal ATI education. The brainwashing of McKenzie & soon Meredith to think in terms of their only function in life is to reproduce as many babies as possible will begin if it hasn't already with McKenzie.
It took some time to eventually expose the atrosities of the FLDS Cult. I am hopeful & confident that soon the same will occur with the reprehensible & depraved Gothard Cult. Although, this despicable Gothard Cult is now worldwide, it's poison will eventually be destroyed.
The Jinger picture was on instagram. It was with Jinger, Jana and a "fan". Not sure where it was taken.
A message from Ben's father
MONDAY, AUGUST 31, 2015
Grief, Shame, And Taking The LORD’s Name In Vain
by Michael Seewald
The recent hack into the adultery website Ashley Madison, and subsequent release to the internet the information of millions of users, turned up some interesting names. None of these names was more attention grabbing than Josh Duggar of 19 Kids and Counting fame. The revelation almost instantly became headline news nationwide. Following this exposure Josh admitted the scandal to the astonishment of those closest to him.
To read the rest cut an paste
http://seewalds.com
Michal Seewald is on the attack, the Duggar fortress is cracking!!!! Who will be next?
I just read ben seewald fathers blog about josh duggar. sorry but I love how he says he was a fake christian how does he know that. he fell into sin anyone can fall into sin. what about him letting him rush into marry jessa at the age of 19 and moving into the duggar compound and dropping out of college. now how is he going to support this kid. great to point the finger now.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/duggars-rehab-facility-run-by-pastor-accused-of-protecting-sexual-predator-from-prosecution-report/
Michael Seewald is pissed. He gave his barely of age son permission to marry into this dog and pony show in the hopes of reality tv riches and fame. Now that all of that has been shot to nothing, dad wants to express his anger. Where was that anger when the molestation story came to light? I think Michael is also mad because his prosepcts for his daughters just went down. The Seewalds will be deemed undesirable by association. That's why Marjorie Jackson's family headed for the hills so fast. No one wants to touch the Duggar family with a ten foot pole. It's ashamed too. Poor Jana may never be allowed to leave now, especially since the Duggars may not attract the positive attention they used to attract, in their Gothard circle.
I like Mom in Taxas's comment: "Michael Seewald is pissed." It's so fun to watch isn't it? I mean, Mr Seewald was defending Josh not that long ago and now he's totally turned on him. I know the Duggar camp likes to claim, "people like to build you up to tear you down," but that's not it. Jim Bob, Josh and Michelle were already "built up" in their own minds so this dramatic fall is really all the sweeter because they're imploding. Who will turn next?!
I always knew Jim Bob and Michelle were totally insane. There are several instances which prove my point but the one that sticks out the most is she nearly died having a 19th child and got pregnant again with a 20th, only the most egocentrism, megalomaniac would do such a thing. But I now firmly believe Jill and Derrick are absolutely no better. Has anyone seen the photo of her with a husband, baby and some South American women? Someone arranged the photo just so, allowing flowers and foliage to block her mid-section. My message to Jill: "You have a five month old son, no one in their right mind expects you to be pregnant again. If you and Derrick are in some sort of sick competition against Jim Bob and Michelle, to have 20 children, please stop now. Jim Bob and Michelle are not and were not good parents. You're family is deeply dysfunctional, please do not repeat your upbringing. Signed, A Friend PS Please save Jana, Ginger and Joy from your parents before it's too late!"
Both Jessa and Ben have the following links on their IG and facebook pages. Not sure if they are declaring their support and passive aggressive sort of blaming Ana.
https://www.facebook.com/benL4CSeewald
https://www.facebook.com/JessaSeewald
In three minutes, John Piper explains how God cures our heart’s broken desires for sin. When the Bible calls us to live like Christ, it doesn’t merely give us a set of commands. It presents us with something compelling and captivating that changes our minds, and then our hearts. The gospel convinces us of something irresistibly true, and then transforms our desires for something new. That conviction and passion keeps us out of bed with someone who’s not our spouse and rejects a thousand other temptations.
http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-passions-that-prevent-adultery
Mr. Seewald is a self-ascribed authority on morality and Christianity and I find him creepier than Jim Bob. The man is now fit to be tied because Josh fooled "all" of us (he didn't fool me!) into thinking he had reformed and was a model Christian. What I get from Seewald's blog post is that he expects millions of non-Christians to be on AM because they're immoral, but Christians are above all that. This may not have been his intended message, but I was insulted, nonetheless.
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