Free Discussion, August, 2013

Please use this for Duggar and Bates sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, politics, religion, or personal stories. If the comment is more about you or some other issue than the actual Duggars or Bateses or other families seen on the show, please rethink before sending. Thank you!

123 comments:

Nancy said...

I guess my happy birthday wishes for Jenny got eaten up! I hope the poor girl got a cake and some attention from her J'Buddy, Dill. She has always been a needy little girl who is also quite reserved. If any of the Duggar kids needed a parent, it's Jenny.

With Jill off delivering babies, I hope Jenny isn't being forced to forge her own path, especially given her hesitant nature. Then again, Jana was changing diapers and pretty much buddying younger siblings by the time SHE was Jenny's age (6).

Londonbridges said...

I agree that Jenny needs a parent. The younger blessings also need their parents to be caring for them, nurturing them and loving them unconditionally. Michelle and JimBob have really failed to do so, and the blessings will carry the results of this neglect. Harsh words, but truthful. Remember poor little Jordyn in her earlier times after Josie was born. She just wandered around like a lost puppy. JMHO as usual. Happy Civic Holiday to my fellow Canadians!

flowerchild said...

Personally I'd love to see the Duggars do wife swap. Michelle alone with several little kids, a family with totally different lifestyle. :-)

Hutch said...

I agree, but the Boob would never allow it....however, a Michelle/Kelly Bates swap could be fun ;-)

Nancy said...

Well, that didn't take long. Josh has posted a picture of himself on Instagram wherein he's pushing a mega-expensive (ie not used) stroller and he's wearing...SHORTS!!!

NIKE for residents of Prince George's County!

Goodie said...

I've often wondered why Josh sold his car lot instead of handing it over to John David or Joseph? Or heaven forbid, one of the girls.

ES lady said...

So if Josh gets to wear shorts, will Anna follow suit? Or is she stuck in the skirt and flip flops? At least let the girl wear some decent walking shoes.

Stephanie said...

Jackson and Johannah have CLEARLY gotten some type of attention from the camera crew. The cameras have been there every few weeks watching their every move since they have been born. Kinda like parents do! My husband and I watched our 14 year old do her dance/cheer routines (only we are interested because we think she's awesome)
My point?
The cameras give Jackson and Hannie lots of attention.
Jenni has said "thanks, but not interested" when it comes to the camera crew. She downright pouts when she isn't in the mood for camera time. I love it, good for her.

Nancy said...

Just found out that Jana is now officially listed as an apprentice midwife under Vanessa Giron (Jill's mentor). Apprenticeships are good for two years; to renew you have to show a certain standard of diligence.

I say this because Jill's apprenticeship is due to expire at the end of this month. With the family trips and her mission work (I recall some of the older girls, along with Michael(la) Bates, going on a Central American misson last spring. Has she done enough work to have her apprenticeship renewed, since she stated (early last spring?) that she still has about two years to go to be ready for full licensure.

Londonbridges said...

I recall that Jana was content to support a woman during labour and birth. She did not wish to be involved in the actual delivery and birth process. Maybe I misunderstood her choice at the time. JMHO.

Ty's Mom said...

Jill is still apprenticing. The midwife she works for has a page on Facebook and there are several pics of Jill from recent births.

Nancy said...

Sure, she's still apprenticing and now has Jana as an offical "accountability buddy" like the Bates kids at Clown College.

My question is whether Jill is ready to take the test, given her current license runs out at the end of the month? If not, how long can one keep re-upping on the "apprentice" thing? ie; can she do this forever if JB won't give her a husband?

Faith said...

Big News! Kelly Bates just posted on the Bates' website that Chad and Erin are officially engaged.

Skirts an curls said...

Erin bates is offically engaged as per Kelly. She was engaged as of Monday :)

Irene said...

At least the Bates kids are given a chance to get a life.

Hannah said...

Great for Erin. I hope they say NO to letting TLC film. Josh and Jim-Bob kissing Anna/Michelle to one-up the newlyweds.


I fear this will send Jana into more depression.

Let the girls go

ES lady said...

Wishing all the best for Erin Bates. Now if only the Duggar girls would get a chance to meet someone of the opposite sex.

tulip said...

Dear TLC (I'm confident someone from there reads this blog):

The Duggars need to be cancelled. The Bates need to come back. If a super-sized conservative religious family will be given airtime, it should be the Bates. The Bates kids are living life, albeit conservative, and growing up and moving on. I'm sure many of us could care less about Josh, the only one who seems to have "moved on", directing a hate group organization with no formal education and degree to show for it, while they get paid filming in their new home, eating out at restaurants, and chatting up all their Apple devices, supporting (with his dollars) & advertising (all over the place) for a company that supports and celebrates same-sex marriage. Just one of many examples the entire family is, and continues to be, one big contradiction after another.

The Bates are simple, light-hearted, and actually doing some things in life worth filming, unlike the Duggars, who seem to be pulling in paychecks by pushing out babies, delegating household chores, and exhibiting their journey in "higher education" that takes more time to complete than if they would just enroll at an accredited school earning an actual transcript. I would like to see Erin (& Zach's) wedding not as part of 19k&c, but as episodes of United Bates of America.

sandi said...

Well-said Tulip.I agree.
Kelly has said in her comments,though,that they did just finish some filming with the Duggars.She didn't say what it invovled.
There are also some other comments about filming,although I need to go back and read them all,as I don't recall rightoffhand what she said.It's on their web page under the annoucenment.

Londonbridges said...

Excellent posts. TLC please don't show this wedding on the Duggar episodes. The Bates family is more interesting and is allowing their blessings some educational opportunities and "dating" experiences. While I don't always agree with their narrow-mindedness, at least they are maturing and allowed some limited freedom. Don't ruin the wedding by having the Duggars over-shadow the couple's happiness. JMHO.

Jac&Jil said...

Congrats to Chad and Erin on their engagement. Does anyone know what Chad does for a living and how he is going to support his family?

Also, I'm just wondering how the Duggars, Bates, Paines et al will be with Obamacare (Affordable Care Act) and buying insurance. Wish someone would ask these families how they will be handling it.

Pam said...

I was just looking at David and Priscilla's website and the pics within the post show Grandma holding Paul in the car with her seatbelt on.....I surely hope the car was not in motion. Oddly enough, there haven't been any comments on that yet....

hannah said...

Josh News


http://www.onenewsnow.com/features/2013/08/12/no-off-season-for-conservatives

tulip said...

I believe Chad is involved with missionary work or youth ministry, but I'm not sure about actual financial income, etc. He has his own blog, chadsperspective. Unfortunately, there's the typical "journey to the heart" and "serving at headquarters" stuff, and although it's all creepy, I don't get the same feeling with him as I do with the Duggars, David Waller, etc. Chad really does seem like a really decent guy. His blog posts are pretty good as well, in that he doesn't boast about his material items, show off his iphone by taking pictures of plates of food, or start controversial political posts to generate his popularity on "now trending"...His relationship with Erin seems very sweet, genuine, and mature...And unlike another couple we've seen, once they are married, I don't see they'll be in a rush to pre-buy packs of pregnancy tests at Sam's Club to stash in the desk drawer.

Nancy said...

Chad earns his money in construction. They won't be hurting, though. His dad is a doctor and, like Gil Bates, a higher-up in the ATI food chain. Don't expect this couple to stray from the fold.

Kelly's remarks indicate that they're looking at a November wedding. Erin appears to be a little uncomfortable about leaving home and plans to take a couple of online classes this fall as she plans the wedding and finishes up at Clown College in the spring.

Faith said...

If I'm not mistaken I believe Chad works in construction in some way. I think that was a response Kelly made in the past to questions about how Chad supports himself.
I also think they are trying to work out a wedding in November.

MandySue said...

Have I missed it or have the Bates and the Duggars not mentioned each other lately?

I do like the Bates, they seem to know their children on an individual basis not as the little ones. They encourage the kids to actually leave. Maybe the Duggars are a little jealous of them

sandi said...

Will Erin still be required to have someone escort her to class for accountability,once she gets married? JW,in case anyone knows,rightoffhand.

Elvira said...

My understanding of their belief is that the very marriage ceremony makes the child an adult and able to make their own decisions and no longer needing a chaperone. Very weird to me.

Kelly V said...

Elvira, that's what I was assuming, too. My guess is that after getting married, they no longer have to protect their precious virginity. If there are desires, they can now be "righteously fulfilled" and therefore less danger of ... being impure, I suppose. Also, since the husband is now the head of the woman, it is up to the husband to decide if the woman needs an escort.

Willow said...

Free to go to class alone --- unless her husband insists on an "accountability" partner. So there you go. It never ends. I agree the Bates are a "little" more reasonable sometimes, however. They are SO less irritating.!! At least they get to go to class!!!! I read somewhere the Duggars don't allow their "little ones" to attend Sunday School classes. They have to stay in the service with their parents. I mean really, how much more weird can it get? What else are they hiding from us? I shutter to think.

sandi said...

No wonder Erin wants to go to school,and have someone come and be with her while Chad works.She's never had to be alone before,so this is probably going to be a big shock for her.
Really sad for someone her age!

Allison said...

Chaperones are needed for male-female alone time together... so that they don't do anything before marriage they aren't "supposed" to do. I wasn't under the impression they really need chaperones, and I think that they still encourage married women to be together as well. And probably why they have babies so early.

Ty's Mom said...

Anna posted a picture on her Instagram and Joy is with them. I bet Joy is required to give a full report to Jim Bob & Michelle when she gets home about what Josh and Anna have been doing... Josh and Anna both posted pictures of Kynzie and Michael being interviewed. Why are they still filming this show? Ugh.

Penny said...

I wonder if the Duggars will be doing an overseas trip this year. If so, despite his new job I will not be surprised if Josh and his family will be in tow.

tulip said...

Speaking of Instagram, how many more times can Josh & Anna brag about being filmed? Way too many pics...yes, we get it, even though they've moved away from the fold, they're still on TLCs payroll, all in the name of "ministry" of course.

Why all the "mommy's big helper" pics of Mack? I guess to show she's already in training to become a buddy, learning to cook, and all? I wish Anna would stop posting pics of the kids with blatant disregard for safety - Mack (not even 4 yrs. old) standing in front of the stove stirring food that appears to be cooking on a hot burner. Mack and little Michael balancing on high stools across the room for "interviews". Mack holding baby Marcus at the computer while she looks like she can barely hold him up from sliding out of her arms. Prob. same reason David & Priscilla posted grandma holding the baby in the car, while grandma is wearing her seatbelt. Whether or not the car was moving, why make people wonder? Really poor discretion these people have.

Glad someone called out Josh on continuing to call Anna his "bride"-creepy.

sandi said...

I'm guessing Erin has never been in her car alone,either.That may be very scary for her the first time she has to drive anywhere by herself.

Londonbridges said...

I just can't even comprehend the concept of never being on my own at Erin's age. To the parents, if you are confident you have instilled values and morals in your children, what is the worry? Believe it or not, there are many moral people in this world. Just because they aren't Gothardites doesn't automatically make them evil or sinful. I am sickened by the continual judgments of the rest of "us". JMHO.

Andrea said...

I too find it odd that the Duggars are still being filmed. That said, it's closer to the end than the beginning. It use to be hat seasons abutted each other with very little break between seasons, we haven't seen new Duggar material in months! Plus re-runs air at 6am .... Who is watching at that time?

Elvira said...

Duggars are trying to push their will on the citizens of Ohio:
http://www.nbc4i.com/story/23150292/duggar-family

Jim Bob wants to "bend peoples' minds..."

Elvira said...

Michelle thinks she keeps her kids from fighting.

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/08/michelle-duggar-rules-fighting-children-price-paid-being-selfish-video/

sandi said...

I think so,too,Londonbridges.
At one point you can hear Gil in one of the shows refer to the rest of society as 'wolves',and then there's Erin and the green hair comment.
Despite seeming overall more loving than the Duggars,they've obviously been fully indoctrinated into ATI beliefs.

Nancy said...

I have a friend who was vetted to speak on the Tony Perkins radio show a few days ago. Josh was filling in all week as the host (wonder how many people at the FRC are seething that a newbie got that esteemed post while they are still underlings).

At any rate, Josh is now a voice for the Tea Party line of White Christian Male "discrimination." His remarks about his lesbian aunt, who has been in a committed relationship for something like 30 years, are baffling. He claims that she believes that marriage should only be between a man and a woman.

I guess they hide the partner when the Duggars come a' callin'. According to Josh on that same response to my friend's call-out, Josh says they will be seeing her this weekend, claiming the tired "hate the sin..." BS.

These people are stone cold ignorant. Choosing to follow Gothard who emphasizes his brand of homeschooling, rules to live like he thinks Jesus did, etc. just breeds ignorance and a separation from the real world. Who knows what their life would have been like if TLC hadn't finished the Tinker Toy House and given them a regular show? Given that Michelle finally acknowledges that her younger kids are basically wild shows just how involved she is with their upbringing.

Seriously? said...

Re: the Patriarch wanting to "blow people's minds": To blow a mind requires having one. therefore, The Patriarch is not qualified for the "blowing people's mind" position. without TLC, This bozo is just one more ignorant hick who had a passel of kids all shoved into a RENTED hovel. He is completely unqualified for anything besides spawning and painting on that Howdy Doody grin. His arrogance is dumbfounding (pardon the pun), as he possesses zero basis for such an inflated self ego. and don't even get me started on his equally ignorant firstborn.

tulip said...

Also wonder how many people at the FRC are seething that a 25 yr-old with a GED (ok, nothing at all against a GED), but with absolutely no higher (yes ATI, I will say the word, COLLEGE) education and subsequent degree gets to be the "Executive Director"...not to mention, paid (I'm sure) to move, set up a nice new house complete with new furniture (buy used, save the difference?...hmmm...), big old desk full of Apple Macs with mega monitors for chatting with the cousins back home, and a luxe 3 seater stroller for leisurely walks around the mall (National Mall, that is.) And, get it rubbed in their face each and every day courtesy of Josh's infatuation with the wonders of social media...wow, great ministry!...Not.

Hannah said...

Josh says Gay People want "Speical Rights"

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/gay-issues/michelle-duggars-son-josh-calls-gay-marriage-special-right-audio#

Seriously? said...

Josh got his job solely based on the name recognition factor, as he has zero smarts, education, training. His employer is merely capitalizing on the TLC Duggar brand. Josh seems too dumb to actually comprehend this reality, and, like his dad, allows his over inflated sense of self worth to cloud his understanding of why he got a job, while so many others would've been better qualified for this or any other position.

"gay people want SPECIAL rights"????! Yes, right along with women who want to be more in life than mere brood mares, people who might want a beer from time to time, and ANYONE who looks at the Duggars as the best single example of the EVILS of failing to separate state and religion.

"Duggar"is synonymous with ignorance.

Elvira said...

Article about Josh's recent radio show:
http://www.crushable.com/2013/08/19/entertainment/josh-duggar-lesbian-aunt-no-gay-marraige/

They have the Duggars pegged.

Nancy said...

According to Josh's FB today, they're at the Creation Museum...AGAIN.

I know they have to basically clobber these kids with the Party Line, but how many times do you have to see the same thing (especially at $30/adult and $16/children)?

I know their museum choices are severely limited, but I guess this is what they limit themselves to due to their fear of improper exposure amongst us "wolves." Same reason they always go to Silver Dollar City, I guess.

There are a couple excellent museums right across the street from Josh's place of employment, but given their secular bent, he'll hear about it if he sets foot in them. But how else is anyone supposed to be able to cogently argue/debate with someone from another side of an issue if one hasn't exposed themselves to it in any way, shape, or form? Obviously, Josh is not going to go on any news network where a pundit from the other side faces him; he'd be eaten alive and laughed out of the studio. Perkins will keep Josh isolated inside the Faith, Family, Freedom bubble of the FRC; if not, he won't last long there.

Beth Anne said...

Re: "There are a couple excellent museums right across the street from Josh's place of employment, but given their secular bent, he'll hear about it if he sets foot in them."

My goodness, I am a Christian who loves science! I have always gone on the "science museum" field trips with my kids when they went for school, not because I would throw myself in front of an "objectionable" display for fear my kids would see it, but because science is fascinating and wonderful and awe-inspiring. I disagree with the notion that God and real science don't mix...and I know many others who feel the same. To me, the DNA code is totally cool and, if you have a code, there is a "coder," and I am able to accept that living things evolve and change and that people didn't live with dinosaurs, because scientific truths are not scary...

They are only scary to people like the Duggars who are beholden to following the twisted teachings of a human being (i.e., Gothard) who claims to be the mouthpiece of God. So, so sad....

sandi said...

I'm would venture to say that Josh has been warned that he'd better not be caught peering at anything even remotely liberal in DC,if he wants to keep his new job.

Rudy Tecat said...

Science seems OK by the Duggars when it keeps Josie alive, or helps Michelle conceive and deliver babies; but, science is no OK when it goes against literal translation of the Bible.

Beth Anne said...

Rudy Tecat - so true! A bit hypocritical, I think.

How about the example that was brought up when JimBob said moss was "God's carpet" ..... what is so darn wrong about explaining to the inquiring child what moss is and how it forms???? Maybe JimBob doesn't actually know, but it's not un-Godly to go look the answer up in a science book. It's like they are so afraid to go beyond their little box that they won't even learn about or answer questions about the simplest things in nature. I can guarantee that God will not be mad or strike JimBob down if he teaches his children how moss actually grows on rocks!

Nancy said...

Preach it, BethAnne and RudyTeacat! I was raised by Christians who had no problem with me going to any sort of museum, including those with...gasp...NUDES!!!! Sure, when I was younger, my friends and I would giggle, but by the time I was in 6th grade, I began to appreciate art for its intrinsic beauty.

Heck, right now I'm wearing a tee that reads, "You can't flunk a science museum." So true...I've tried. :) Even the Duggars could find something to learn, whether it's about how magnets work, or fulcrums, or the local flora and fauna to gain a healthy respect for nature (which they sorely lack).

The Duggars and their ilk definitely need science museums more than the museums need them.

I imagine about the only museum that Josh could visit in DC would be Air and Space, which is really cool, but within walking distance is a modern art museum (the building designed by IM Pei) as well as another art museum. What on earth is wrong about learning about impressionism by looking at a Monet painting of FLOWERS? All of his figures are fully clothed, but Gothard says no.

I imagine they have some bibliccally-inspired art in the home, but really, all I see when looking at pictures are selfies, or the professional portraits of the family. That's fine, but there exists the potential for so much more that is just wasted.

Sad.

sandi said...

Perhaps that's why the Duggars like to hang instruemnts on the wall..they're not allowed any real artwork.

Londonbridges said...

Absolutely great posts. Wasted potential. My opinion is that we should never stop learning. Information taken in is positive. JimBob and Michelle don't have a right to keep the blessings from learning and growing. I am sure Josh has been told to tow the Gothard line, nothing more. What a waste of a mind. JMHO.

Anonymous said...

I was somewhat surprised to see that Jill has pierced her ears. check out the one pic of her holding a newborn and wearing a headband...good for her!

Nancy said...

I'd rather take my instrument out of a case than off a wall where it gathers dust and, depending on weather, can warp, given they're into string instruments made with wood.

Any real musician who values their instrument knows better. I just...can't...with pulling your mandolin off the wall to spontaneously play it. I've noticed that they never seem to have the lids down on their pianos, either. That was one of the first lessons my piano teacher taught me: when you're done, put the lid down. Likewise, my flute was always cleaned and put in its case after I finished playing it.

What is WRONG with these people? These are centuries-honored traditions that preserve instruments, even the harp...especially the antique one JB bought for Jill or Jana at an auction.

You'd think someone would have told the kids, since JB and Michelle were never musicians, the proper maintenance for their instruments, especially given the importance/prominence of music in Gothardworld (hence all those family band/"ministries" or even the Bateses. I've seen instruments hanging on their walls as well.

Again, sad.

Willow said...

Wow, you guys have really opened my eyes to a new one. Art, really? Not even a pastoral landscape, etc? I can kind of understand, to them, the Picassos, etc., (not really, but ...) Are you saying they do not believe they should have any art work at all on their walls? This is astounding and shocking and I thought nothing would surprise me any more about them. I guess they (Gothard, the parents, ?) just don't want them to waste ANY time thinking about anything that might interest their mind or take up some of their time. Remember, they are not supposed to have hobbies, right? Distracts them from character-trait thinking and reflecting. Sewing, after all, is a necessity to the ones that do it. Where is a brick wall so I can hit my head on it?

Rudy Tecat said...

Art is just unbridled self expression, and the Duggars can't have any of that, now, can they? Everything has to be filtered through the Gothard filter, first, and deemed non-stimulating before the Duggars can view it.

tulip said...

It's really just one contradiction after another. A lot of ultra conservatives don't seem to believe in pierced ears. Jill has pierced ears. Josh & Anna got Mack's ears pierced before she was 1-yr. old (I think?), anyway, they decided FOR her to pierce them. Does any of this make sense?
Josh is in love with Apple, yet Apple is the first one to jump up to support and celebrate the very thing Josh is fighting against as an "executive director".
Michelle's life had to be in danger before she finally got her gall bladder removed. The episode where they went to see the doc, he told her if she even planned on being pregnant again (prob. thinking that would be the ONE thing that could bring her to her senses to have the surgery), she needed to just have it taken out once and for all, but, no, they don't believe in "altering" their God-given body in any way. A short time later, guess there was no choice at that point when Michelle HAD to have her gall bladder removed.
The Duggars definitely have no problem displaying their "baby wall" of all the newborn pics of the kids, any novelty having to do with love, faith and family from Hobby Lobbby, or more family & friends pics on their walls, but a simple painting of even just a landscape? Never seen one.
These are just some of the obvious red flags that we have seen for years, but hope their "fans" are beginning to recognize as flat-out weird.

zebracrossing said...

Pictures of Jill and her midwifery...on facebook...

https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-Mommys-Butterfly-Midwifery/155580851151697

sandi said...

I'm guessing they consider the instruments to be 3D artwork? idk,but the ref. to art make sense as to why they only have instruments and family photos on the wall.It's apparently all that's allowed.

seriously? said...

IS IT WRONG that it strikes me funny that the Creation Museum's Zipline guy was non seriously shocked by lightening recently while operating the zip line? (He's fine.)

Either way, a ZIPLINE feature at the Creation Museum is funny all by itself!

Hannah said...

Josh think it her choice to be Gay.


It was his choice to have a nephew work for this group.

It was his mom who made a choice to make them in the public eye.

Think about it, Josh

Nancy said...

A Duggar actually THINKING? Surely you jest.

Boo's Mom said...

zebracrossing: I checked out the FB Page and I'm shocked. I'm 100% behind midwives but letting a woman go 69 hrs of labor without seeking hospital support is insane. They got lucky! Whoa.

Londonbridges said...

I understood that thinking one's own thoughts wasn't allowed in Gothard's kingdom. Th only thinking going on is when the blessings need to recall what they've been force-fed and how to react and behave. JMHO as usual.

seriously? said...

Amen to Nancy's comment! Due to a very unfortunate combination of genetics and Gothard training, the Duggars seem incapable of THINKING. Rote, mindless parroting of Gothard's pretzel logic is the best we can ever hope for from these yokels.

Trixie said...

On Josh's radio appearance...

He may not know it, but speaking for other adults is rude.

He said his aunt, who chooses to live a certain lifestyle, was totally awesome but....she doesn't agree with marriage equality. Maybe this is true, but without her there, or others who heard the conversation, that's hearsay and sounds like something conveniently pulled from somewhere dark and stinky to bolster the FRC line.

His aunt is a grown woman who made the CHOICE to live an authentic life. That's what makes her awesome - not Josh saying so.

sandi said...

I agree,Boo's mom.I had a forceps delivery after 27 hrs.It was either going to be that,or a c-section.What are these ppl thinking? I just know I'd had it after over a whole day in labor. If she'd been in the hospital,she wou;d have had some options,like the above,or a suction device placed on the baby's head that gently draws them down.I feel bad for anyone laboring for that long.
JMO.

sandi said...

WHY is there a zipline at the Creation Museum,and what does it have to do with creation? Are they hurting for money and so put it in for enterainment and to draw ppl to it? JW,thx.

Seriously? said...

69 hrs of labor is the single best reason I ( an OB RN) can think of to opt for a better-medically- educated-and-trained obstetrical professional. Not sure those in DuggarLand comprehend the inherent risks in such a prolonged labor, both to mom AND her "blessing". The ignorance scares me.

Seriously? said...

Yes, the zip line was added to increase the Fun Factor of learning that man and dinosaurs shared The Garden of Eden. Maybe next year they can add "Sinner Land" with big, basket-shaped seats to take you down a greased slide for that rapid descent straight into Hades. Yes, the new attraction could be called "To He'll in a Hand Basket" and I'm guessing would be a big hit with Duggar-types.

Ashley said...

From the article that talks about the employee getting struck by lightening:

Hemant Mehta, a teacher from Illinois and visitor of the museum, told the Associated Press the Creation Museum added the zip line "for the same reason evangelical megachurches have amazing bands open their worship sessions — it has nothing to do with the service itself, but it might draw in a different crowd."

Anonymous said...

Does any one know anything about these foreign exchange students Jonathan and Jennifer Hartono? They don't seem to be around much as they used to.

Nancy said...

IIRC, the Hartonos attended college somewhere fairly close and, being too far to go back to Indonesia for breaks, aside from summer, spent a lot of time with the Duggars.

I imagine they've graduated college by now. I think Jennifer was younger and around 18/19 when Jana/JD met the siblings on their Indonesian, Gothard-sponsored "mission" trip. That was over a Christmas break in either 2008 or '09. Either way, I think she'd be done with school by now; Jonathan definitely is.

Not sure whether they went back home and now just come to visit (family must be super wealthy to bankroll all of this in the first place). I recall seeing Jonathan and JD in a picture within the last 6 months, but can't remember the context.

PS: 69 hours of labor is INSANE! I'm sure you have to sign your life away (liability), since these midwives have different licensure than doctors, none of whom would have allowed that to progress that far.

Lucky woman, indeed.

meme said...

She didn't labor for 69 hrs, her water was broke for 69, she only labored for 4...your water can break spontaneously without going into labor. It happened to me, and they induced....the reason they induced is because there is a HUGE risk of infection to the baby after it's
no longer protected by the amniotic sac. They told me I had 24 hrs to deliver or get a c-section and I received penicillin in my iv the whole time (23 hrs) Either way, they're idiots and it was so incredibly dangerous to let her go that long after her water broke, she should've been taken to the hospital imo

Andrea said...

Josh and Anna's triple stroller cost close to $1000. It was totally purchased for it's attention grabbing factor. Mackenzie is nearly 4 years old she does not need a full seat to her self, there are things called piggy backs that can be added to stroller for children walking age. It's just another Duggar attention grab. These people are shameless. I've cut myself off from the TV show I think Instagram and thier website is next! I'm just feeding the beast at this point!

Londonbridges said...

Seriously? Said, I agree with your opinions and experiences as an OB RN. Ignorance is bliss in certain situations, but never when the lives of a mom and baby are at stake. I am curious as to when the certified midwife would call for assistance. What constitutes a medical emergency for these midwives? JMHO.

Nana Sew Dear said...

It occurs to me that JB and Michelle don't have much confidence in their parenting skills if they have to be so protective,especially of the adults over 18.
I am a non-believer and I don't pray but I do wish with all my might that at least 1 blessing will hit the road to some place safe and welcoming.
On the topic of art, music etc. I've also noticed that there are no dolls to be seen, at least at the senior Duggar household. Is this because of Gothard's Cabbage Patch doll rant or because by the time the kids would be interested they are already raising a sibling?

Miz Kizzle said...

Isn't Gothard like a million years old by now? When is he going to be taken up into heaven in a chariot of fire to sit at the right hand of God and help him run things after he finally croaks and who will take over the Quiverfull movement then, or will it fall prey to infighting in the ranks like dozens of other nutbag religious movements before it?

Just Me said...

Nana Sew Dear said.. "I've also noticed that there are no dolls to be seen, at least at the senior Duggar household. Is this because of Gothard's Cabbage Patch doll rant or because by the time the kids would be interested they are already raising a sibling?"

-----------------
The girls have been shown on the show playing iwth thier dolls. I think Jennifer was attached to her doll. I remeber the episode where she was crying because the boys had put the doll on the high ceiling beams. Jill helped her get the doll ( with the help of Jim's mike boom). Jill commente tha the boom was good for that sort of thing. I always wondered if the boys had been told that was not a nice thing to do to their sister.

Just Me said...

Sorry about the typos in my comments about the dolls. I accidently hit the publish comment button instead of the one to return to edit it.

sandi said...

I think there is some speculation that David Waller is being prepped to take Gothard's place.I don't know how true that is, though.

Seriously? said...

yes, Gothard must be the planet's oldest BACHELOR! Hilarious that there's a willing audience for this religious whacko despite his complete lack of experience with marriage, much less raising children. where's HIS quiverful????

Ty's Mom said...

I'm beginning to think that Josh and Anna are no longer abiding by the "knee is nakedness" thing. Anna posted a picture of Kynzie and Michael at the National Zoo and Michael is wearing shorts and Kynzie is either wearing shorts or a skirt without leggings *gasp!*

As much as I have disliked them in the past, it is kinda fun to see Josh and Anna stray from Jim Bob and Michelle's ways... Wearing shorts, buying expensive strollers... What's next?

tulip said...

No Barbie dolls though! Never cared for Barbies much and my girls only had a few that we never bought, they were birthday presents from friends, but, I always saw those Barbies laying around half dressed, no shirt-defrauding! Lol!

Another pic of the 3-seater stroller posted in all its glory. They sure seem to have a lot of time on their hands to sight-see and go out to eat, what with the new job "directing" and all. And, didn't seem to take too long to set up house either (and with 3 kids, one a newborn) with a fully furnished place, pictures and décor hung up, fully functioning household... hmmm...must be nice.

I often wondered if the next generation Gothard would have to have the same "qualifications", like being unmarried so he could devote all his time to "the ministry"...kind of like a priest or something. Guess we'll find out because ol' Bill is surely getting up there in years.

Nana Sew Dear said...

I am sorry. I looked at some of the older episodes and there were dolls. My bad...
About Gothard, it's my understanding that be lived with his parents until they died. Since that is what he did he now preaches that lifestyle choice as the only correct one. It makes me wonder if he's closeted. I don't know that it is true but I'm curious. I'm sad that his personal choices are affecting the lives of his followers. It makes me sad that the adult Duggar children cannot have a life of their own. The only way out is marriage.

Nana Sew Dear said...

I am sorry. I looked at some of the older episodes and there were dolls. My bad...
About Gothard, it's my understanding that be lived with his parents until they died. Since that is what he did he now preaches that lifestyle choice as the only correct one. It makes me wonder if he's closeted. I don't know that it is true but I'm curious. I'm sad that his personal choices are affecting the lives of his followers. It makes me sad that the adult Duggar children cannot have a life of their own. The only way out is marriage.

Nancy said...

Anyone here live near Duggarville? This Saturday, they're having drop off for a rummage sale to be held the following Saturday AT THEIR HOUSE.

All proceeds are supposedly going to Arkansas Children's Hospital. Isn't the hospital, and its patients, subsidized? I'm not sure where exactly the money would go, unless it's a hidden agenda of a Gothard ministry for captive parents.

Sorry, I can't find a decent link to the flyer that works, but their street address was on the thing. They must be getting really desperate for storylines to be filmed, with complete strangers, at their home.

Nancy said...

Try this link to see if it works:

http://i.imgur.com/EHeUqf8.jpg

Nancy said...

My bad, dropoff is Thursday the 29th; I swear I read it as the 31st, or just assumed it was on a Saturday, when regular people are off of work.

Nancy said...

I'm on fire tonight. Lookie what I found, complete with a wedding registry:

http://chadloveserin.com/

sandi said...

Re: yes, Gothard must be the planet's oldest BACHELOR! Hilarious that there's a willing audience for this religious whacko despite his complete lack of experience with marriage, much less raising children. where's HIS quiverful????
-----------------------------------

I think that's part of his playing the role of Jesus,in that he doesn't have either.
I do wonder if he has 12 'disciples' behind the scenes though.Perhaps that's the board of directors of ATI?
JMO.

Beth Anne said...

Re: the whole "no art" thing....

Don't know if this is related or not, but it reminded me of an episode from my own life.

I had a close relative who left the Catholic church for a fundy one, thankfully just for a short while (she's now a Presbyterian). Within two weeks of becoming a fundy, she was denouncing the Catholic church's use of artwork in their churches, saying it was idol worship. I kid you not. I tried to point out that, over the many, many Catholic masses she attended, never once was she forced to kneel before a statue of Joseph or a stained glass window to ask the statue or window for power and blessings. They are pieces of ART, depicting important people and events from Christianity, and some are quite beautiful and stirring.

I guess the Sistine Chapel should be painted over with bland white, because any such art work is the devil's work and idol worship? It just blew my mind how ridiculously rigid fundamentalist thinking is. People love to view art because it stirs emotions and evokes feelings, and I guess none of that is allowed in the Duggar world.

Rudy Tecat said...

At least Erin and Chad aren't being greedy...nothing too expensive on their Bed Bath & Beyond and Target lists. A hair dryer...I wonder who that's for!

Pam said...

Serious question....When Chad proposed to Erin, did they have to have everyone (chaperones) standing with them or were they allowed a bit of privacy?

tulip said...

Thanks for the links..Another "he loves she" name for the site...it's always fun though to look at registries-the pink shabby chic bedding from Target? Maybe it's for a guest room (but I doubt it since it's queen size)...I don't think I'd ever ask my husband to sleep on that girly and frilly bedding, and I hope he wasn't the one to pick it out, lol! In the BB&B reg., there's a white netted canopy, I'm assuming to complete the set? And the multi ruffled shower curtain-for $49.99...guess that's their splurge, lol?! Also noticed they didn't forget the waffle maker and garden hose. Oh well, I'd still rather see the Bates than the Duggars, and still really hope the Duggars don't get to take credit for Chad & Erin's wedding on their show. Really hoping to see a much more creative and elegant wedding dress for Erin-she seems like the type that would go that route, what with the shabby chic bedding, ruffled shower curtain and all. Just really tired of the same old plain, short-sleeved white dress with matching bridesmaid style in the bride's favorite color of the rainbow.

The address on the rummage sale flyer is for the Duggar's?...I never knew their actual address...guess now everyone will! (And guess they'll be glad they put that gate up back when "fans" were getting a bit too close for comfort.) Yup, no doubt cameras will be present.

Andrea said...

Ugh ... They're clearly struggling for story lines. That said, a rummage sale is one of the better story lines of late. I wonder if I lived in North West AR would I go? Probably not, but what do the local people think of this family? Would any of them actually allow the Duggar to exploit them for the purposes of a TV show.

As for the fundraising aspect, even Public Hospital require money for research and operating expenditures.

Slightly Freaked Out... said...

I'm not sure that Chad Loves Erin site is theirs. The engagement date is different than what Kelly Bates listed in her blog post. I can't imagine that either Chad or more particularly Erin got that wrong....particularly since Erin asked for the date in advance so that she could re-arrange her schedule. Just sayin'.

Seriously? said...

Re: Gothard Not married so as to devote all his time/ energy to his religious fervor VS, as a previous poster surmised, "closeted"- I'd bet the farm it's the latter. This would help at least partially explain his obsession with sexual temptation and ridiculous restraint (no kiss til marriage is just plain WEIRD as is the whole adult offspring living with parents ad infinitum.

Willow said...

Kelly said on her website that even though they went with Chad and Erin, they sat aways from them in order to give them some space and privacy (I'm paraphrasing). She said Erin begged them to come with. She said chaperones try to give space. Pretty much what we expect from the ATI followers. I thought Erin's engagement dress was so pretty, though. They look very happy.

MandySue said...

Arkansas Children's Hospital is a non-profit. They are associated with Arkansas Med School for research and teaching. They do several fundraising events during the year. There is a group of parents in NWA that fundraise up here. I personally doubt the Duggars are part of that since it has other parents whose children were at ACH and that makes the Duggars not special.

My hubby and I did find their house a couple of weeks ago. I knew where to turn when I saw the city dump sign. I was kind of disappointed. Their land isn't as much as it would seem and their house is closer to the road than I thought. Less than a football field from the road. Duggar towing is next door and I took a picture of the wrecker. (I need a life)

Nancy said...

tulip, yes, that's their street address and the flyer specifically states that both the donation day and rummage sale will be taped by TLC.

I do have to admit that once I learned more about what the families of babies in the NICU need (hotels, food, etc), essentials that could break a family reliant on two incomes, I consider this one of their better donation ideas.

I hope they are able to articulate this clearly on the show to actually inspire people to do something similar for their local Children's Hospital. But, sadly, I doubt they'll get the message across without injecting some self-congratulatory egoism into it. Because Jesus, of course.

Beth Anne said...

Re: (Kelly) said Erin begged them to come with.

That statement is just so disturbing. Either Kelly is not telling the truth and hoping people will buy this line, so as to deflect people's criticism of having parents chaperone their adult children on "dates," or Erin actually "begged" them to come, which is disturbing in and of itself.

If your 20+ year old daughter is terrified of being alone with her boyfriend, something ain't right. There is a serious lack of maturity there...sorry! Erin and Chad need to know that they can choose how to act, to include exercising self control on dates with each other. They seem like good people and, as many have pointed out, if they were raised "right" and have a strong faith, they should have little difficulty being with each other without their parents tagging along.

I just don't get this notion of infantalizing these adult offspring, only to them let them loose once they are married, expecting them to magically mature and handle the complexities of a marriage relationship.

Nancy said...

Happy birthday, Josiah! One more year of the circus act and you can free yourself! We're all rooting for you. :)

sandi said...

I agree about Erin and Chad,however,since the family is very close,I'm guessing she wanted her parents along for this special moment.I know not everyone does(I eloped,much to my family's chagrin),but it does happen.
I also agree the rummage sale is a good idea,even though it's being held for the show to tape.I know there are families who have to choose between dinner that night or going to see their baby in the NICU.Anything to ease that burden is always a good thing.

Rudy Tecat said...

I bet the Duggars could come up with a lot more cash to donate, rather than sell a bunch of cast-offs from their neighbors. I wonder how long the Duggars will actually be out on the road selling things before the camera crew calls it a wrap.

Patrice said...

It is sad that Erin is afraid to be out with her fiance alone, afraid to move away from the family, and afraid to start her new life. A prime example of how the Bares/Duggar/Gothard techniques do NOT work.
The "children" are socially behind their peers by at least ten years...basically they are pretty much still in pre-adolescence, mentally and emotionally. Sad!

stephanie said...

That's a great question. They orginally said they were going to school, right? I would like to know more about their educational experiences.

Londonbridges said...

I totally agree that a young woman who is nervous to be alone with her fiancé has some serious issues. Due to their up-bringing and constantly told to maintain and keep their purity and not to give away their hearts just sets them up for this response. They truly are behind in their mental and emotional maturity. To the Duggars and followers of Gothard, how can you base your family and personal values dictated by an unmarried and probably unstable man? JMHO

Hannah said...

They should donate one shows money to the NICU and Hospital that saved Josie. That would be helpful.

They already did the rummage sale idea on other TLC shows.

I bet a lot of NICU(or other long term hospital stays for other issues) parents lose or have to quit their job if they need with the child.

The girls should offer to watch any siblings when they go to visit the child.

They have a lot of drivers to help with errands the families need. They may only have one car and have to be dropped of when the other works, drives the kids to schools etc.

Pam said...

Please tell me how you go from never being alone with someone to having sex on your wedding night? Seems crazy to me.

Betty said...

They don't all do that. Many of them wait until they are comfortable with each other.

ES lady said...

Well we know that Josh and Anna did not wait until they were comfortable. Remember them showing us the house where they honeymooned? They showed each bedroom and commented on how that was their favorite room. I wonder how these girls handle their first time given that they are allowed no alone time prior to the wedding.

Jac&Jil said...

I'm with Pam here. I've often thought about a couple who kiss for the first time on their wedding day, then are intimate with each other later on that same day. Sounds like it could be very traumatizing to both the bride and groom.

You never see the real person when they are always around others. How do you know if that person has a bad temper and would lash out at you? Is he always going to blame his wife when something goes wrong? Oh, I forgot, it's always the woman's fault according to Gothard. And finally, what if your husband turns out to be gay? I guess you just pretend all is well and keep popping out babies.

Rachel said...

So, there were cameras (from someone) at Erin's engagement:
http://blog.thebatesfamily.com/2013/08/29/erins-engagementpart-2/

sandi said...

I think a sex therapist would advise such a couple to go slowly and not feel obligated to go all the way on their wedding night,if they felt they weren't ready.They would probably be advised to procede slowly,in steps,twds the mst intimate parts.
This is from what I've seen of counselors on some of the shows.

Anonymous said...

Why do all the couples wear the matching outfits? Is that a Gothard requirement?

Beth Anne said...

RE: How do you know if that person has a bad temper and would lash out at you?

This has always been a source of concern for me with the ATI courtship model. How do these young couples ever really get to know the other person, faults and all, when other people are around and everything is carefully controlled? I also think that JimBob could certainly be swindled by a smooth-talking suitor who knows all the right things to say and is able to project a "holy" demeanor, but is really not a nice person beneath the surface. But, if the "surface" person seems to fit Gothard's criteria of good qualities, JimBob would be eager to match one of his daughters up with such a man, and the daughter would likely feel pressure to stay in the courtship, because everyone is blabbering on about what a "good guy" he is.

And, are these young couples really able to reveal their fears or concerns about the relationship or their "fit" as a couple either to each other or to an outside confidant? It really scares me...

I do think Josh and Anna get along well and are a good match, but I'm sure others have not been so lucky. I'm glad Zach Bates's first "courted" young lady had the courage to break it off, as the courtship in which he is involved right now seems to be a much better fit.

tulip said...

Re: Pics of Bates engagement, Part 2

Of course, they had to post a pic showing a camera crew...I really hope this isn't for 19k&c, however, I think it's a safe bet it is. Ugh. I really had hoped Erin wouldn't have a Duggar girl in her bridal party-it would seem to me after seeing various episodes that Erin wasn't really that close to any of them, but, it might be an excuse to show the wedding on their show if they just throw one in. I also can't bear seeing Josh & Anna at another wedding showing off as an "experienced" married couple...yuck.
The pics are nice though, esp. the one of father & daughter. They all look very relaxed and genuine, and there's one emotional pic of Chad looking like he's either praying or going to start balling.
Anyway, who knows how all the "intimate" details will play out, but Chad doesn't look like the type who's in ultimate hormonal overdrive & ready to jump in with both feet as soon as the door closes (like another newly married we've seen...*Cringe!)

tulip said...

Amy will be part of a dunk tank at the yard sale this Sat. TLC will be filming so once again Amy has to make an appearance. I won't be surprised if she plugs her CD since she seems to make every episode she's in about herself. She's 25 or 26? Honestly, she needs to grow up and get a life. I guess she's a nanny and has plenty of time on her hands to hang out like a college kid posting pics and goofing around while she's still pursuing her "music career". I don't think TLC will ever get a clue that we really are so over this same old scene.