Free Discussion January 2013

Please use this for Duggar and Bates sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, politics, religion, or personal stories. If the comment is more about you or some other issue than the actual Duggars or Bateses or other families seen on the show, please rethink before sending. Thank you!

173 comments:

alana said...

Is there going to be another season?

Sharla said...

Seems so. The Duggars have been seen during filming both in the US and overseas.

Nancy said...

And the Duggars start off the new year with...gas station fare. According to Josh's facebook, JD was sworn in as some sort of county constable. I guess Jim Bob has some pull at city hall, since he RAN for ALDERMAN and lost, and got the kid appointed to the post.

At any rate, with some of the rugrats and apparently a TLC cameraman in tow (looked like Jim the sound guy was playing volleyball, but it could have been Josh filming) witnessed the swearing in at the local gas station. What was really creepy is that Jana held the Bible. I know he's not married, but why not Jim Bob - although I didn't see him in the video - or his mother? Jana doing it just seems...creepy. There had to be another adult over age 18 who could have held it.

Happy New Year, Duggar style.

hannah said...

Josh claims to have sold a car on New Years Day. He has the date filled out and thats all.

Andrea said...

Check out Anna's instagram page.  She posted a photo of Michelle and Barack Obama and Barack is saying: "Guns make us less safe." The photo includes secret service agents and is pointing out all of the guns the agents are carrying.  

I once referred to Josh and Anna as Dumb and Dumber, but I only half believed it.  I actually thought Anna had some brains but was kind of playing dumb for the cameras and to be a member of the Duggar Dynasty.  I now know otherwise.  She is actually an awful person.  Children died in Newtown, CT, we don't need your small minded, political rhetoric.  

If Anna happens to read this, this is what I have to say to her:  Shout the front door and go away.  I personally don't care for you or your family and regret ever looking at your instagram page. 

Jasmine said...

What happened to the Bates family? I kind of enjoyed them, seemed more sensible than the Duggars.

rudy tecat said...

Did Anna post an Instagram photo showing all the guns in the hands of the bystanders? I don't think she did. The only reason the secret service carries guns is that there are wackos out there who have guns and shouldn't.

Nancy said...

The point of Anna's post seems to be that all people are equal and the President of the United States (or any other country) shouldn't be entitled to more protection than the regular citizen.

Totally missing the point that looney-toons out there want to kill every president, and ignores the fact that THIS president has received more death threats than any president who preceded him.

That picture totally encapsulates how people who aren't exposed to critical thinking see the world through one warped lens.

tulip said...

As usual, the Duggars feel the need to keep themselves out there and "popular", hence the multiple appearances at SDC "supporting" their friends musicals, signing autographs, posing for pics, etc. and all the political stuff Josh & Anna post that "ends up" controversial-just keeps people talking. I really hope this is their last season-they don't need anymore encouragement fueling all their egos, not to mention, they have taken the fame and ran with it for everything it's worth. Even Amy's website refers to her as a "star" of the Kids and Counting series...seriously? Josh thinks he's some kind of political go-to guy for all things Republican/Christian, and honestly, Josh & Anna are not that great of parents. Yes, they love their kids, but from what they've shown us, they're nothing special, and I mostly see them trying to use their children to get themselves attention. Josh is a very poor example of a so-called "business owner" and it's sad that Anna is always feeling the need to show how she pleases her husband as "a good wife should."

Blech. I'm with those that would much rather see The Bates, or even watching David & Priscilla fumble through being newlyweds with a new baby would be more realistically entertaining than watching Jim Bob & Josh direct their families around from the sidelines, Grandma doing laundry, Michelle blabbing away and getting way more attention than she deserves, and Amy jumping in with her big mouth trying to sell herself as a late twenty-something nanny with no more musical talent than any other wanna-be out there peddling tracks to local radio stations.

TLC...let's move on already, shall we?

Rainbow68 said...

With so many TLC shows already having their premieres, it's strange we haven't heard anything about the Duggars. I wonder if there will be a special showing them on their trips?

Elspeth said...

TLC has shows starting in almost all or all months of the year. The Duggars are set to come back in the spring (March/April).

tulip said...

Saw the pic on Josh's Instagram of John being sworn in as "Constable"...just like a Duggar to look so unprofessional-why on earth is he standing there in his coat and wearing old, worn-out jeans? The least he could've done is put on some khakis like the Secretary of State is wearing. I had some hope for John, up until now-more Duggars in politics, and appears to have gotten an "in" to boot. I wish he would stop trying to "become Duggar", in other words, get rid of the tow business, get his foot out of the political door, and go to pilot school (to actually have a career as a pilot, that is. Not just have a license so he can shuttle Josh around in a puddle jumper.)

sandi said...

I suspect all the Duggar ventures to SDC may be due to Jim Bob possibly planning on getting back into politics,and what better place than a family park to get yourself 'out there' and be seen,to those whom you think will vote for you? JMO though.I suspect they get some comp/free perks to go along with it as well.

roddma said...

Everyone liked the Duggars at first, too. I imagine if the Bateses had stayed on, they would start taking advantage of the perks. The Duggars, Kellers, and Bateses are cut from the same cloth.

Ty's Mom said...

I don't know if John has an "in" or just nobody wants to be Constable, because he was unopposed on the November ballot here in Washington county.

tulip said...

If John was unopposed, it's even more ridiculous that Josh is bragging about it & there are so many "Congrats" comments...congrats for what?-volunteering for a post nobody else cares about it, and didn't need to get any approval from the people to serve because nobody else was running for it? Maybe just more filler for an up and coming episode-gotta keep the TLC gravy train on the move.

Ty's Mom said...

I think you all may be right about Jim Bob possibly getting back into politics. On Josh's instagram, he took a pic during prayer time at the "NWA delegation of Senators and reps" (something along those lines) and Jim Bob is there. On a side note, has anyone else noticed that Josh takes an awful lot of pictures during prayer time? For Josh to have such a self-righteous, holier than thou attitude, I find it almost rude that he does that. If you're going to have prayer time, you should be praying, not using that time to takes pictures for social media. *stepping off my soap box*

Tiffany said...

Josh's car lot says "Closed Sundays for Worship," right? It's odd to me that he's good with that, but then is a patron at so many other businesses on Sundays (restaurant after restaurant and, of course, Silver Dollar City). Maybe the employees at those establishments want to worship?

Alberta Rose said...

Maybe the employees at those establishments want to worship?

They do what everyone else who works for a place that is open on Sundays does. They make their availability Monday to Saturday. An employer can't refuse to hire someone because they can't work on certain days. A business owner has the freedom to say "Closed for Worship", whether it's a Jewish Bakery that closes on Friday or a Christian Used Car dealer closing on Sunday.

Amanda said...

"They do what everyone else who works for a place that is open on Sundays does. They make their availability Monday to Saturday. An employer can't refuse to hire someone because they can't work on certain days. A business owner has the freedom to say "Closed for Worship", whether it's a Jewish Bakery that closes on Friday or a Christian Used Car dealer closing on Sunday."

That's totally not true. I used to work retail, and you can absolutely refuse to hire someone if they can't work certain days. I personally wanted to have Sundays off because I wanted to go to church, but it didn't always happen. My mother is a nurse, and same deal. She has to work Sundays from time to time. Businesses reserve the right to not hire you if you can't work the hours that they need.

Anonymous said...

Alberta Rose, you are wrong that an employer can't refuse to hire someone who isn't available to work on a certain day. Who WOULD hire someone who can't work when you need them to. You totally missed the point of Tiffany's comment

Alberta Rose said...

Alberta Rose, you are wrong that an employer can't refuse to hire someone who isn't available to work on a certain day. Who WOULD hire someone who can't work when you need them to. You totally missed the point of Tiffany's comment

I reread Tiffany's comment. She was referencing standard places, not places open 24/7. My point is we can choose to shun a business because it makes us feel guilty it's closed for worship, or to not venture to a place because it's open on Sundays. As employees, we have the freedom to choose where we work and what our availability is.

Josh Duggar has chosen a route that allows him to close his business on Sundays. His siblings who have chosen to be volunteer firefighters and/or enter into the healthcare profession have chosen a dfferent route. I suspect he doesn't claim he is more holy then they are but goes his way and they go their way.

DuggarGoth said...


That's totally not true. I used to work retail, and you can absolutely refuse to hire someone if they can't work certain days. I personally wanted to have Sundays off because I wanted to go to church, but it didn't always happen.
-------------------------------------Same thing for me as well. I worked in a mall and had to work my share of Sundays. They tried to be fair and use a rotating schedule so you didn't have to work every Sunday but you still had to work a few. I live in the south now and actually a lot of people will say they can't work on Sundays because of church (whether they go or not) I don't think employers will hire those not willing to work on Sundays. I don't think they'd ever say that to someones face or else they'd get sued.

tulip said...

Regardless, I find it annoying and selfish that Josh's carlot is closed on Sundays "for worship", yet he has certainly frequented his fair share of businesses on Sundays, as evidenced by his photo diary, including fast-food, other restaurants, and Walmart, etc. (as Tiffany's comment said) Also, (as Ty's Mom's comment said) the many pics taken during "prayer time"...that's absolutely rude, and all so he can post his social media. Ugh. Josh Duggar. I think he thinks he's some mature, respectable, older than his age husband, father, business owner, Christian-but those outside the Gothard bubble know he has A LOT of growing up to do, if he ever makes it.

Not to start a conversation about other shows, but, just read about Mama June putting away a good portion of Honey Boo Boo money into trust funds for the girls. She said she doesn't even see the money, and that TLC takes it directly off the top and puts it into the accounts and then emails her that it's been done and how much went in, etc. Instantly made me think of the Duggars. By Jim Bob keeping the kids under his thumb, and Gothard rule, why would any of them need their own trust funds? Jim Bob & Michelle have the money control, Jim Bob will marry off his daughters when he's good and ready, and "help out" the boys with a business so he and Michelle can get all the accolades and take pride in their "successful" children. I'm sure Josh got his "business" handed to him, and now he just parades around strutting his tail feathers. Point being, we never actually hear what these families do with all the TLC money, and what they are (or are not) doing for the kids. These "good"/"Christian" families (Gosselins included)...no mention. It takes a group of self-proclaimed "rednecks" who some mock to step up to the plate. However, I'm sure now that they have, there will be a talking head on one of the new episodes of Jim Bob & Michelle talking about their money-just like when Kate G. finally "mentioned" she has $ for the kids college and that the mini-manse is "for the kids." Wonder what The Duggars will come up with.

Tiffany said...

If Josh wants to close his business to allow his employees and their families to worship, more power to him. My point is that by spending money at a business on Sunday, the business has a reason to open on Sunday. If they're open on Sunday, they need employees, and then those employees, which are hired based on availability to meet business needs, would not be able to worship as they potentially desire. For someone who has convinced themselves that their life--especially a reality show--is a ministry, it seems odd to encourage making others work on their sabbath.

Patrice said...

Maybe Joshie's business should say "Closed on Sundays to worship the Lord first and food second!" At least it would be more truthful.

Alberta Rose said...

Wonder what The Duggars will come up with.

We're getting ready for our first mission trip. They are not cheap to do. Given how much the Duggars bring on the plane for the people, and purchase to help the people when they get to the country where the people live, I'm fairly certain that some of the TLC money goes to charity and missionary work.

sandi said...

As far as the 'Nike' comments go, I'd be rather offended if my husb. ever did that.Why?? Because it would mean he was looking at other women's clothing.
It's completely possible to walk past someone without looking specifically at what they are wearing. :)
Recall in NY,Jim Bob told the kids to bascially 'ignore the signs',because he knew they were there,and some were not what they would approve of.I don't get that.So the signs get more respect than other ppl do???
Also,why it it just women they yell Nike about.Men can wear skimpy clothing as well.
JMO.

MegsMom said...

Just trolled around Josh's twitter account. Please go check out his feed. (it's open, just search.. Josh Duggar twitter.) His pic is soooo corny. He is in a suit at a lecturn in front of what looks like a waving American flag. He sure looks like he is getting his campaign cards ready!!! I have no problem with someone who is young, has barely any real world experience, attended school with 1st graders to run for office.
(lol) I really don't! Maybe getting a lowere level elected position will teach him more about life. Nothing is black and white. Issues have many sides and one is a fool if they can't see both sides. He might actually learn about others outside his very small world and might carve his own path in the world.

Patrice said...

Finally some interesting news, if we are still allowed to talk about the Bateses. Looks like Erin is in a "serious relationship" as they call it, with one of the Paine boys. And it looks like less than a Bible length between them; they may even be holding hands in one picture. Maybe this will be a step away from Gothard's crazy courting rules finally. I hope so.

Lisa said...

Erin Bates has entered a courtship with Chad Paine. The Paine family was on the last episode of United Bates of America.

http://blog.thebatesfamily.com/

http://chadsperspective.blogspot.com/

Ty's Mom said...

Aww! I was so hoping John David would have the guts to ask her for a courtship! I always thought they would've made a super cute couple!

tulip said...

The pics of Chad & Erin look so genuine and comfortable-nothing like the awkward (and hormone-fueled) courtship of Josh & Anna. Maybe now that something is "going on", TLC might bring back United Bates, even if for only a handful of episodes, which they've done for other shows (there have been some shows that a "season" has only consisted of like 5 episodes) Just so tired of the Duggars already. I know people say Bates & Duggars are cut from the same cloth, and I agree, up to a point. The Bates actually seem fun to watch, and dare I say, more "real" for reality TV? There's still Gothard hovering over, but just the kids in general seem more interesting. I really could care less to hear another word about midwifery, Journey to the Heart, Jessa defending the girls (& Jim Bob), and Jinger's love of coffee (with a thumbs up). I hope Alyssa helps Erin choose a wedding dress-she has the personality to convince Erin to get rid of that cookie-cutter pattern Gothard probably sells at the ATI store.

DuggarGoth said...

The pics of Chad & Erin look so genuine and comfortable-nothing like the awkward (and hormone-fueled) courtship of Josh & Anna.

I agree completely!! I thought they were very "effortless" pictures. In other pictures (Josh and Anna, Zach and Sarah) everything looks so strained like they are trying so hard not to sit TOO close to each other. Erin and Chad look a lot more natural. Weren't the Paines featured on one of the United Bates episodes? I seem to remember there was a family visiting them and I got the impression that one of them liked Erin. I would love to see more of the Bates on tv.

Rudy Tecat said...

So, what does Chad do? I mean, other than blog (which he seems to do alot). I looked all over his family's site, and didn't see anything, though there were some older posts from IBPL headquarters.

Bates Courtship Fan said...

Chad and Erin seem to be much more relaxed and comfortable with each other -- alot different from the other couples mentioned in the previous posts. I don't know much about him but I can't picture Chad having a nervous breakdown and crying when he asked for permission to court her. They look so happy together.

SmokeyKitty said...

Rudy Tecat, I was wondering the same thing. He's nearly 30 but in none of the blogs he's on (I found 2) is there mention of college, trade school, or any other kind of training for work. There is no mention of a job, or apprenticeship, or business. I don't think everyone needs to go to college... I'm not an elitist in that way. But, gosh darnit if you're going to be old enough to get married and not use birth control and not let your wife work then you need a really good way of supporting that ginormous family you are planning on having. I guess they will just leave it up to the taxpayers to ensure that they get medical care and support. After all, isn't Gil Bates's version of health insurance is to go to the ER for all medical issues and then leave without paying the bill?

Patrice said...

If there had to be a Duggar-Bates courtship, maybe John David and Michaella would be better paired. They both seem simple, quiet, and down to earth....and maybe most likely to drive off in the middle of the night and settle far away from the compound. We can always hope.

tulip said...

Not sure, but Chad seems like a good guy. Although I always cringe when I read the phrase "serving at headquaters" (this from the Paine Family blog), there's a somewhat "normal" element to him (unlike that of David Waller, who has that weird element) And even though he does a lot of blogging, it's nice that it's actually something of substance and not entirely focused on himself. Josh continues to post his political agenda, and now Anna's taken this on as well-her latest posts are more about guns and a photo of Rick Santorum speaking online. All this political stuff they're "slipping in" really is beyond ridiculous. Amy just continues to post pics of herself, and Reed. I hope they don't introduce Reed on 19k&c. They already did that with another bf she had before Reed, and all the talk about how they just clicked, etc. was nauseating, not to mention, who cares?, and now the guy is long gone. Their Asia trip, and Michelle's Bday present (please.), I highly doubt will show "ministry" and charity work, but rather a bunch of showing off, goofing off, and more ignorance to culture, while the girls do their hair & makeup and search for a place to get their morning coffee (yes...referring to their many other trips showing them strolling around with Starbucks cups in hand.)

rosemerry said...

I really enjoy all the comments, and just checked out the Btes blog to compare to the Duggars. The Bates children are talented and attractive, but I find the constant relentless going on about God becomes cloying. The Duggars, by their actions and their incredible support for political extremists like Santorum and Todd Aken, let their religion ripple on the surface.

Anonymous said...

Wonderful for Erin and Chad. They will make lots of beautiful children. Go her, he's a hottie. :) They seem to really love each other, not in a 13 year old way like we've seen from others.

My Name is Erin, Too said...

I'm happy for Erin & Chad, but she doesn't seem like the "domestic engineer" type like Micheala who will be content with a gaggle of kids, cooking, laundry, homeschooling, etc...It seems to be a Bates family joke that Erin can't cook. Getting pregnant ASAP and as many times as possible definitely seems to be the hyper-fundie thing to do. Case in point, David Waller's brother Adam's extended family the Muellers. The Muellers' oldest son has only been married about 9 months and his young bride looks "great with child" in their Christmas 2012 photo. It's also a bit disconcerting to see so many husbands & wives who could pass as siblings.

sandi said...

Just wanted to share that Sarah Pope had Annalee this morning,around 8:50am.She weighed 4lbs even,amd is breathing on her own,(although needs oxygen). She made it to 32 wks and 1 day.Yay for her! :)

Rudy Tecat said...

Well, I bet after this long lay-off for the Duggars, it is just about time for a gaggle of them to go to the dentist, again. That always makes good tv!

Alberta Rose said...

Rudy Tecat, I was wondering the same thing. He's nearly 30 but in none of the blogs he's on (I found 2) is there mention of college, trade school, or any other kind of training for work. There is no mention of a job, or apprenticeship, or business.

If he has half a brain, he'll keep his mouth shut about where he works, where they are going to live and quit blogging unless he wants a whole lot of unwanted publicity from people who like to pass judgement on those who are in the minority.

Patrice said...

On Kelly's blog today, she mentions that Chad "has carpentry skills" and worked on a house. Yes, yet another home-taught boy who will never make enough to support a family. Maybe he can build enough homes for his "like-minded" friends, but I highly doubt he is licensed and/or will go to work for a firm where he will receive a regular paycheck. More Gothardism crap: "Never go to work for ANYONE but yourself". Nice ideas, but these people seem to bypass the education and licensing it takes to be legal in their fields.

Joyful Momma said...

I hope that TLC will continue to show the Bates family. I will enjoy watching Chad and Erin and their progressing courtship. I really hope the same happens for the Duggar girls soon

Marites H. said...

I found it a bit odd that Mrs. Paine doesn't get her own tab on the 12paines website. There is one labelled Dad and then one for each of the kids. Maybe she only has her identity wrapped up with her husband. Apparently Dr. Paine works at Gothard HQ which seems the only other approved employment for married men other than family-run businesses like Gil Bates and his boys.

I don't know if Chad Paine having carpentry skills and blogging about family/ministry updates will bring in enough income to support a wife & family. Erin is still quite young so maybe they won't have a race to the altar like Josh & Anna. This seems to be more like genuine love than overactive virgin hormones screaming for release.

sandi said...

I'm guessing they will continue to show the Bates,that is,if they want the whole courtship/wedding filmed.I imagine the Duggars will, of course, be invited and will attend.I just hope they don't take it over.It should be all about Erin and her day (and her finacee).Unless tlc does a special with just the Bates.That would be great.

londonbridges said...

With respect, the Duggar and Bates families are followed and yes, judged, in part due to their choice to accept paycheques from TLC. They have put their beliefs, life-style choices, etc. out in public. We probably would never have known about any of these families unless and until they made their choice to be viewed by the public.

They also receive significant remuneration for their 'appearances'. JMHO.

Rudy Tecat said...

From what we've seen with the other courships, if all goes well they may have a wedding in the spring or early summer. And, then, what happens to Erin's career as a pianist?

Patrice said...

I don't think Erin's career was really going anywhere anyway, since she was not allowed to accept the scholarship and go to real college. No doubt she will just continue to teach a handful of Gothard-approved students in her home until the baby machine goes into full tilt. Poor girl, I think she does have some talent that could have been developed with a skilled teacher.

mom in texas said...

Erin and Chad do look more genuine than most of these like minded couples. How old is she? In her early 20s, right? If Chad is nearly 30, there has to be a pretty significant age gap. I wonder how age factors into the Gothard relationships? Well I wish them all the luck in the world and hope they make it. Erin never seemed very domestic but I guess she has time to learn.

Not a Fan said...

Finally someone said what I was thinking..."Poor Girl". Yes I was 24 when I got married, but, I DATED my husband for many years before getting engaged and I was in college getting my degree. I knew who I was by the time we got married and I was allowed to make my own choices as far as what to do with my life. Had I received an offer to go across country for any reason, school, work etc. the choice to go would have been mine. As for my children, I will give them the same chances I had. My parents taught me well, I plan to do the same with my children. When the time comes I hope they come to me for advice, but I in no way expect them to make a choice solely because of something I say. I hope they weigh in in their final decision. That is what mature young adults who are ready for the world do.

My Name is Erin, Too said...

There are new "courtship" photos on the Bates' website. Looks like Erin was allowed alot more privacy on her romantic evening with Chad than the Duggar sister-moms would in that situation. It also looks like the 3 Bateses (Erin & her parents) are colour-coordinated in their turquoise family photo outfits. I really hope this relationship works out for Erin as I know how it is to be courted and so close to an expected marriage proposal and then have him walk away.

Anonymous said...

As a friend of the Duggars, Bates, Querys, Wallers, Paines, and pretty much everyone else mentioned on this site, all these comments make me laugh. Honestly, I can tell you for certain that almost everything speculated on this site is flat out wrong! Nice try though.

A few examples:
-Jana has never worked at IBLP Headquarters
-Chad Paine is 26 years old (not "nearly 30")
-Jana held the Bible for John David to be sworn in a few weeks ago because she is his TWIN

Just remember: You only see a TINY part of their lives on TV or a family blog. Don't be so quick to think you all have everything figured out, or know the motivations behind it.

Yes, their "standards" and way of living are probably very different than any of you choose. But we're glad we live in a country where differences are celebrated and ancouraged. And I'd venture to say that you'd drop most of this nonsense commenting if you really knew them for the wonderful individuals they are, every day, cameras or not.

Anyway. Keep writing all your speculations and criticisms. It gives those of us who know the real people/stories something to laugh about. :)

Jac&Jil said...

Posted on The Paine Family website on 1/28/08 by Chad: "My name is Charles Stephen Paine III…better known as Chad. I am 25 years old." Since this is now 2013, that would make Chad 30 years old and not 26. Maybe "Anoymous" got his age confused with one of his younger brothers. Just saying.

Beth Anne said...

Re: "As a friend of the Duggars, Bates, Querys, Wallers, Paines..."

Wow, that's a lot of real estate to cover! Meaning, if you truly know all of these families, you are likely very much a part of the IBLP circles, because otherwise it seems logistically impossible to be friends with people who live so geographically far apart.

If you are a part of ATI/Gothard, that is truly your choice. I agree the wonderful part of the country as that we have freedom to choose how to live. Yet, I can't help think you may be biased regarding what "wonderful" individuals these folks are because you are in the same "circles," as there are others who live geographically by some of the families mentioned who say real life is much, much less "one big happy family" than what is presented on camera. Are the opinions or statements of those who have mentioned, say, that Michelle actually DOES yell at her kids sometimes less valid than your statements, saying they are wonderful?

Just some food for thought :)

Nancy said...

Chad Paine's age was corrected; their blog was confusing with an edit made four years after the original post. So, yeah, most of us know his real age.

As for Jana, she actually HAS worked for IBLP as a counselor for the Indoctrination Camp. Sure, the people (aside from Gothard royalty) PAY for the privilege, but she counseled young girls in Gothard's twisted, legalistic doctrines just the same.

I feel for people who have been sucked in by Gothard, Phillips, and the other snake oil salesmen of religion out there. Thank heavens we already see cracks in the veneer, with family members leaving the fold, and pathetic that they can't be accepted for those choices, especially the unmarried daughters and sons who leave Daddy's "umbrella".

Keep on sheltering/ruining the chances of your children to get on in this life unless there's a lot of money to back them. The lack of education will do most of these cults in within the next generation as it is, especially when the charismatic leaders die off. David Waller as the next leader of ATI? I've heard him speak and he's about as diametrically opposed to charismatic as they come.

I post to express my frustration that the Duggars (and any of their friends who have been on the show) put out such a false face of their lives. As the last poster said, they aren't as they appear. The thing is, the posters KNOW this and wish these families would let down the veneer of "keeping sweet" and show us the real deal.

Patrice said...

The new pictures on the Bates's site show Erin and Chad supposedly riding a ski lift to the top of the mountain where he popped the big COURTING question. Erin is wearing a skirt and sandals. Ummm,riiiiighhhht. I guess these people aren't exactly known for good decision making.

nogmamme said...

I think the posting dates on the Paine Family blog could be wrong because when the Paines were on the Bates show this past year, it said Chad was 25. So him being 26 now doesnt sound very off to me.

SmokeyKitty said...

Dear Friend of everyone snarked on. 26 is close enough to 30. I don't care if he's 26 or 28 or 30. He is a minimally educated man living with his parents and seems to have no means of supporting the kids that he will insist on impregnating his new wife with. They will suck of their parent's teet and if that's not enough off of the government's teet while they insult other people who take government aid and vote against their own interests in the name of "family values". They belong to a hateful cult that insists on parents limiting their children by denying them adequate education. They demonize everyone outside of their belief system and teach their children to be hateful and fearful of "others". Erin Bates's ignorant comment regarding sitting next to someone with green hair is great evidence of this hateful xenophobia.

So yes, we might get some of the tiny details wrong... But, I think we have a better overall view of what sort of people they all are than anyone who watches their television show while wearing rose colored glasses.

Alberta Rose said...

Anyway. Keep writing all your speculations and criticisms. It gives those of us who know the real people/stories something to laugh about. :)

I like what my pastor said. You can disagree without being disagreeable. :D You can also agree with someone and encourage them if they believe the way you do. I prefer to focus on the things about the Duggars I like. I have no pity for them. I admire they have the courage of their convictions and are willing to go public with the private.

Nancy said...

The posts on the blog were dated from 2007, but EDITED in 2011 to reflect the Paine children's ages THEN. At that time, the oldest, a daughter, was 24 (maybe going on 25? it was edited in the middle of the year). Chad is next in line, so I'm assuming he was 23 going on 24, so 25/26 now makes sense.

It was just hard to follow because of the original thread date and their re-visiting it four years later and recognize that fact. Otherwise, you come away thinking that Chad was 25 THEN, which would make him almost 30 now. Properly updating the blog posts would have been easier for people who don't know them to follow.

mom in texas said...

Anon "Friend of all" said:
But we're glad we live in a country where differences are celebrated and ANCOURAGED.

Yes, now I definitely believe you know all these families. You obviously went to the same school as they did.

But in all honesty, there is nothing wrong with good natured speculation. This is a discussion blog. We discuss things. Period. And I can assure you most of the speculations are not wrong. In fact many have been proven to be fact.

tulip said...

"As a friend of the Duggars, Bates, Querys, Wallers, Paines.."

Interesting that "a friend" would visit Duggars Without Pity to check out the conversations, find the "speculations" to be "flat out wrong", but yet encouraging those to "keep writing" the "speculations and "criticisms" because it will provide something "to laugh about." Wonder if the Duggars, Bates, Querys, Wallers, Paines consider themselves blessed to have such a "friend".

BTW, IMO, I think only in the world of the Duggars, Bates, Querys, Wallers, Paines would 26 years old NOT be considered to be "nearly 30".

Ok, so, Jana held the Bible for John David because she's his twin, but why on earth were they all gathered at a gas station to do it, and, as the Secretary of State said, "brought the whole crowd", including baby Michael, out and about at midnight? All while John stood there in his worn-out jeans and coat, and Jana giggling like a teenager and proclaiming "Yay!".-Sorry, but, this is what gives ME something to laugh about. ":)"

Anonymous said...

Sorry about that misspelling, Mom in Texas. Middle-of-the-night post from a tired mind... I wrote the word "and" twice and accidentally deleted the "nd e" instead of "and ".

To SmokeyKitty... Chad is a smart, skilled man. He will do just fine supporting a family. I guess only time will show that one. And your statement, "They belong to a hateful cult that insists on parents limiting their children by denying them adequate education." is a stretch. This "cult" you speak of actually assisted launching a program to help people GET AN ACCREDITED DEGREE. Check out verityinstitute.org. Enough said.

And even if "Michelle actually DOES yell at her kids sometimes" I'd say that's hardly worthy of scandal or surprise. You all do know these families are made of human beings, right? ;) Okay, just checking. And I see a lot of posts about flip flops? I'm not sure I see the gravity of that offense either, but maybe it's just me....

Anyway, I've enjoyed looking through this site. It's interesting to see how different things come across to people. Keep the discussions and conspiracy theories going... after all, that's what makes TV fun, right? :)

roddma said...

As employees, we have the freedom to choose where we work and what our availability is. Josh Duggar has chosen a route that allows him to close his business on Sundays. His siblings who have chosen to be volunteer firefighters and/or enter into the healthcare profession have chosen a dfferent route."
It depends on where you work. You have the freedom to decline jobs because of hours but but genrally employees don't have the freedom once they are hired. THis is why none of the Duggar kids would never last long.

As fas as seeing more Bateses, I prefer not to see anymore from this rleiogus sect. No matter how you sugar coat them, they are the same as the Duggars such as the green hair comment someone mentioned earlier. Erin was ready to turn down the scholarship. If it weren't for tv , I doubt she would even have the chance.

sandi said...

>But we're glad we live in a country where differences are celebrated and ANCOURAGED.

----------------------------------
Then why do these families not mingle with the rest of society? Gil Bates flat out called other college students 'wolves'.
There's not much to speculate when someone states their true feelings.JMO.

emm said...

Some have mentioned that the Duggars use the show as a "ministry" if they are "so sweet" even when the cameras are off as their "friend" on this post claims then why are they getting paid (and we all know they are) for the show and appearances? I thought mission workers did their work for free or to glorify God....Most pastors I know don't really receive a salary more like a stipend for basic needs...this may seem harsh but I can't help but think that if the Duggars were truly Godly folks they'd be doing this "mission" for free....

Beth Anne said...

Re: And even if "Michelle actually DOES yell at her kids sometimes" I'd say that's hardly worthy of scandal or surprise. You all do know these families are made of human beings, right? ;)

Yes, I do know that, but the carefully crafted image put out not only by TLC, but also by the Duggars themselves via their talking head speeches on the show and other media forms is that Michelle is mother-of-the-year all the time with her sweet baby voice. There was an episode with Amy on it at Duggar home where she said quite loudly in front of a large group (and the cameras) that she has NEVER heard Michelle yell. And, did JimBob or Michelle correct her? No. They both just smiled lovingly and, thus, implicity approved of Amy's comment.

My point being, I would LOVE IT if Michelle admitted to yelling at her kids once in a while. That's normal and human, as you said. The thing is, they are trying to present themselves as perfect in behavior, dress, and mannerisms as if this makes them true Christians. Christians are Christians because they are imperfect.

tulip said...

"Just remember: You only see a TINY part of their lives on TV or a family blog."

I wish the TINY part of the Duggar's lives we see on TV, etc. would include: Josh doing some actual work at "his" business instead of being shown doing everything else but; Michelle feeding her kids something other than tater tot casserole and pickles; the kids actually doing schoolwork instead of being shown goofing off, climbing on counters & tabletops, and playing cops & robbers, and Cousin Amy doing something other than promoting herself at every possible opportunity with a loud cackle and a "hey y'all!". (JMHO, of course.)

sandi said...

>Some have mentioned that the Duggars use the show as a "ministry" if they are "so sweet" even when the cameras are off as their "friend" on this post claims then why are they getting paid (and we all know they are) for the show and appearances? I thought mission workers did their work for free or to glorify God....Most pastors I know don't really receive a salary more like a stipend for basic needs...this may seem harsh but I can't help but think that if the Duggars were truly Godly folks they'd be doing this "mission" for free....
----------------------------------

I'll remain neutral in regards to this,but I guess it just depends on where you live.Here the local pastor makes 80K plus a yr,and lives a few miles down the rd from the church in a 250K house,all expenses paid.And we're not in a particularly wealthy city.
I've always wondered,if,in addition to avoiding the regular church crowd,the Duggars home church so they don't feel obligated to tithe that 10%? That's a heafty fee for a large family,before tv came along.JMO.

Leah said...

"I prefer to focus on the things about the Duggars I like" then why would you consistently read a blog that is specifically geared toward Duggar criticism?

Andrea said...

Verity Institute is a total joke. I just checked out it's website seems to me to be awfully like College Minus .... Oops .... I mean College Plus.

Separately, John David and Jana turned 23 a few days ago. Truly sad, two 23 year olds living at home and apparently completely under their father's thumb. Most 23 year olds have graduated college and are working full time towards a career.

Nancy said...

Not Jana or 20 year old Jessa. They (and more, probably) accompanied JimBob and Josh to Little Rock for the opening gavel of the Arkansas state legislature on Monday. Josh was photographed (pics are on his facebook) with JimBob and a couple other fat guys in ties. Josh looks like he's lost a few lbs., but being on the floor of the legislature, aren't there rules about wearing a tie? He was in a sportscoat and JEANS for what he called an "historical" day.

Historical = First Republican majority legislature since Reconstruction. Anna celebrated by posting a pic of Clinton on her Instagram, a parting gift, I guess? I just love that someone thought it was JimBob (who is right-handed, Clinton, signing a document in the picture, is not). Some fan wrote that they loved Clinton. Definitely not getting the reaction they are looking for when they make the inflammatory posts, which they've toned down lately...maybe because they're actually reading them now and realizing that not all people who like the Duggars agree with their politics.

RJWife said...

Wow! John David and Jana are 23! At that age I remember being graduated from college, working, exploring life on my own, having fun with friends, and meeting my future husband, having the time to be a young adult! Sad that they will never get this chance like most people that age!

Canadian Fan said...

Gil Bates flat out called other college students 'wolves'.
There's not much to speculate when someone states their true feelings.JMO.

***********************************
Gil says that college students are all "wolves" although he and his wife are both college-educated. Doesn't make much sense. IIRC, they met and married during their college years. It sounds like the majority of the Bates kids plan to get a college education.

Nancy said...

The "education" their kids are getting isn't much better than College Minus, which I think both Zach and Michaella did before they discovered Crown (aka "Clown") College, where Erin and Nathan go. I've looked at the resumes of the professors, and frankly, they're no more qualified to teach than professors at a community college: no PhD. required. I knew profs in CC who were WORKING on their doctorates, and most had them, but they weren't teaching upper-division classes.

Bottom line, unlike the community colleges I attended (there were four under the same district umbrella from which I could choose classes that worked best with my schedule), Crown College is not accredited. Any diplomas earned by the Bates kids (I have no hope for the Duggars beyond College Minus and Gothard U), won't be worth the cost it took to print them.

Rainbow68 said...

As someone who went through both Gothard seminars and had plenty of their resources, I feel sorry for these people. They are trapped in the bondage of legalism. They are always cringing that God will be angry with them and do something vindictive to punish them if they're not consistently "content". The entire book of Psalms is dripping with David and others questioning God. They equate positive things happening to them as God's favor. They follow a strange man's opinions as if they were Scripture itself. I recovered from this and so can the Duggars. If they choose to. Grace is a really remarkable thing. I don't think the Duggars and their ilk are bad people. They are just trapped in bad theology.

Anonymous said...

New to this blog so I don't know if this has ever been brought up before but my analytical brain must get it out. If the Duggars and families like them think that it is God's will that they have this many children, then logically they should believe everyone should have been living this way from the beginning of Jesus' time. Now if this had happened, do they have any idea what the world would look like at this point? Where is the logic in this thinking?

Rainbow68 said...

The church I attended 20 years ago was very Gothard. I'll never forget the youth minister announcing to the kids that we had "wolves" in the youth group and that they weren't welcome. It was very bizarre. This must be a common theme in Gothard-ville.

Anonymous said...

Yeah Anon is just about right on. I don't belong to an actual ATI family but we do go to the conferences every so often and we are friends with quite a few ATI'ers (Including the more prominent ones). I can tell you that they really are nice people to be around and what you think you see isn't always what you get. Yes, they generally have really strict standards, but they truly believe that those standards are for their children's good. If they thought for one moment that their beliefs were harming their children, or weren't ever the best for them, they would change (A few most definitely are.) These families love each other and love others. If you had the opportunity to get to know them you would see this. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Do they have everything right? Nope. Not even close. Do I? Nope. Do you? We are all different, that's what makes America so great.
I am saying this in defense of the general "fundie" community, not every family. There are some that are weird, creepy, and cultish, but these are generally few and far between. Trust me, the Bates and Duggars are far, far, far from a cult. They are some of my good friends and favorite people.

Disclaimer: I am not actually in ATI. I do not even agree with many of Bill Gothard's teachings. I am a Christian first and foremost, not a gothardian. :) If a teaching of Dr. Gothard's is in-line with Scripture, I'm ok with it.(but then again, it isn't really his teaching. It's God's). Unfortunately, many ATI folks think everything Dr. Gothard says is right when a lot of the time it isn't. But please remember, almost no one that is in, or comes out of the ATI/Conservative-Christian community is a hateful, bigoted person like many think.
I go to a public university (biology undergrad and love it!), have many secular friends, and I am a very open and accepting individual. I'm very conservative on some things and very moderate (or even *gasp* liberal) on others. :) I don't try to force my beliefs on anyone but I try to do my best to love everyone, regardless of their beliefs. After all, that's what Jesus did.

Patrice said...

"Where is the logic in this thinking?"
From what I've seen of the Duggars and other Gothardites, there is not much logic to anything. You must live with your parents until they find you a mate, (under the guise of: GOD found him/her!) Pants are immodest, but it is ok to wear skirts to totally inappropriate places for them...like working in a dangerous old house filled with broken glass...and out in the woods. Long wavy hair is the only thing appropriate on women...(what????) People at regular schools are horrid so you must stay home and be educated by your parent who only has a high school degree, and does not believe in teaching science, classic books, evolution, critical thinking. I could go on and on. Is any of that logical?
I really don't think logical and "Duggars" can ever be used in the same sentence.

sandi said...

>New to this blog so I don't know if this has ever been brought up before but my analytical brain must get it out. If the Duggars and families like them think that it is God's will that they have this many children, then logically they should believe everyone should have been living this way from the beginning of Jesus' time. Now if this had happened, do they have any idea what the world would look like at this point? Where is the logic in this thinking?

---------------------------------
Hi and welcome. :)
I think it's safe to say that the Duggars, and everyone like them, believe that all of life would be peachy-keen and nothing short of a bed of roses had that happened.
I don't think they are particularly bad ppl either;what bothers me is that they are so willing to follow such a controlling religion,and from an earthly man's (Gothard) view at that.
I also don't care for the arrogance involved,such as labeling the rest of society as wolves (I'm offended,as my own kids are in college and certainly don't fit that description).And also the scrutinizing of other women's clothing (never have I heard them call men on theirs!) and yelling NIKE whenever someone isn't dressed to their approval.No one told them to look at what other women are wearing,so imo,they should just do like what Jim Bob said to do for the signs in NY...ignore it!

Not a Fan said...

Dr.Gothard? Okay so if he has his doctorate one would conclude that he not only had gone to college to earn a B.A./B.S. but that he went on to graduate school and further into a doctoral program. So why is it that these people shun any Real Higher Learning? Why is it that he thinks it is okay for him to have done these things and better himself (dare I say) yet the young youth of his (I'm gonna call it) Cult, are not allowed to have the same experiences? Thats a bit absurd, and angers me that people are actually buying into this. I do not know enough about his teachings to say much. I do however feel that by allowing anyone to dictate how you dress, do your hair, speak, and how you raise your children; is just about the dumbest, brainless thing anyone can do. To be told not to question or think for yourself is definitely not, " for their children's good." There is a problem with this statement," If they thought for one moment that their beliefs were harming their children, or weren't ever the best for them, they would change." That problem is that they are so deep that they can't see how much they are harming them. It's the whole forest through the trees thing. You can't see them because you are in too deep. It is only when you step back that you can see the trees. In this case these parents are so far into the Gothard world they can't see the garbage for what it is. (really wanted to use a different word there) Only my opinion as I have not real experience with this awful sounding way of life.

Not a Fan said...

Just a quick question...at what point do you stop calling your wife your BRIDE? Josh and Anna have been married for how long? 4 years! if my husband called me his bride, I'd be gagging.

Nancy said...

Things may have loosened up some, and Gothard really tried to show some "transparency" with Jana's trip to the indoctrination camp, but they don't tell you about the forced fasts, breaking of the spirit until you find something, ANYTHING wrong so they'll get off your back.

Here's one young woman's story, corroborated by her parents. There are so many red flags that I don't even know where to begin. But Gothard wanting to control the trip for the frequent flyer miles, the daughter having to sneak around to have any privacy, the mother perming her hair to "fit in," if these aren't signs that something is very, very wrong with the program, than I don't know what else I can say to anyone involved in it. The legalism, everything regimented just so is clue #1 and the Duggars/Bates don't deny that there are rules, very strict rules.

Here's another story of a young woman who also thought she was doing the right things for God:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/01/potemkin-village-mtc/

RJWife said...

Where did dr got hard get his degrees and doctorate from?! That is a good question I would love an answer too if anyone knows it! Good point someone brought up about josh and Anna, after 4 years married acting like newlyweds! Lol! If my husband called me those names after nearly ten years, it would make me sick!! We were never into, "honey this," or my cutie", etc. anyhow, that's just not us. But, Josh, Anna, Jim Bob, and Michelle (yes you guys after all these years still do it, and it makes me sick! It's one thing, and a good thing to still be in love but another to call one another names that get old and are gross!!) Hope everyone has gotten back to school, work, and having a good 2013! Best wishes to everyone!!

Marites H. said...

I read that article on the recoveringgrace website. Pretty scary stuff! I saw traces of that at my fiance's church (not in any way affiliated with Gothard, but still VERY legalistic and regimental). The pastor says "Jump!" and the congregation asks "How high?" on the way up.

Luckily, I saw some of the red flags cropping up and got out of there in time. Just waiting for at least one Duggar (or any of these other families) to break away and write their memoirs.

Rainbow68 said...

Thank you NOT A FAN!

I can't tell you how many times I've heard Christian men who've been married a long time their "bride". I've been married almost 20 years and asked my husband to PLEASE not do it. It's cutesy to the point of being sickening. Josh isn't doing something that is that uncommon, though.

Rudy Tecat said...

According to Wikipedia, Dr. Gothard studied at Wheaton College and Louisiana Baptist University.

Nancy said...

Here's a link to the "official" Gothard bio. Seems like his fetish for young girls started when he was pretty young himself. At any rate, here it is for a good laugh.

http://iblp.org/about-iblp/bill-gothard

Andrea said...

Hi Y'all'

I was reading around the iblp website and found the following:

Another young man, Chad Paine, age 19, was at a loss for words. “It is very hard to describe the time that I spent up at the Northwoods during the Journey to the Heart. It was a “Bethel” experience for me (see Genesis 28:16, 17). God met me there in a powerful and real way that I will not forget. It caused a hunger and thirst for God to be renewed within me.”

This is taken from an article published on the website in April 2007. This proves that Chad really is only 25 or so.

Here's the page it came from:

http://iblp.org/news/journey-heart

Secondly, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Duggar's belong to a cult. I also read this on the iblp website about a women's experience with journey to the heart:

“[The Lord] really changed my life. He really convicted me of some sins I needed to confess that have been in my life since I was very young. Then the Lord really came down on all of us. … I felt the love of God stronger than ever before in my life. All I want to do now is live for the Lord and love Him with all my heart, all my life.”

My goodness, seriously what kind of sin could a very young girl find herself in that she need to confess. This cult is sick.

Patrice said...

Seems unreal that he could even attract one follower, much less the flock of sheeple he has believing in his nonsense now. Wow.

Alberta Rose said...

Some have mentioned that the Duggars use the show as a "ministry" if they are "so sweet" even when the cameras are off as their "friend" on this post claims then why are they getting paid (and we all know they are) for the show and appearances? I thought mission workers did their work for free or to glorify God....Most pastors I know don't really receive a salary more like a stipend for basic needs...this may seem harsh but I can't help but think that if the Duggars were truly Godly folks they'd be doing this "mission" for free....

There is a difference between being a missionary and using some place or something to spread the word. The Duggars aren't missionaries, just people who got offered a TV show and saw it as a means to get their regular income supplemeted. Also, whether the title is Pastor, Minister, Rabbi or Father jobs, they need to be paid a living wage, not just a stipend.

sandi said...

My Pastor also refers to his wife (of 20-some yrs) as his bride,and I think that's fine,if she doesn't mind.I think it's kind of cute,actually.
I just take it to mean that he still thinks as much of her as he did when they first got married. :)

Beth Anne said...

Re: "seriously what kind of sin could a very young girl find herself in that she need to confess."

I agree that a very young child of 6-7 has not likely engaged in much morally reprehensible behavior...maybe not sharing toys or being sassy with her parents?

Having said that, recognizing and confessing one's sins is a central tenent to most Christian religions. However, I think the fundamentalists tend to go a disconcerting route relative to this behavior. I had a both good friend of mine and a sibling go the fundamentalist route for several years and was concerned about the judgmental, legalistic, and unpleasant tone their faith journey took.

Specifically as it relates to "confession," it seems that the fundamentalist condition is very much "public" confessions with not-so-subtle indications that one MUST participate. I've literally seen church bulletins where people's sins are published, and I imagine (though I cannot confirm) that there are group sessions during the Journey to the Heart conferences that are dedicated to confessing one's sins, whether one wants to or not. Likewise, there are typically very public spectacles of people committing to Christ. As in, pastor/leader announces to group, "Whoever wants to commit to Christ, please step forward!" in loud, booming voice, and who is going to be the one left sitting in his/her seat? All eyes are upon them at all times (sound familiar, with respect to the Duggar tenent of never allowing a child regardless of age be unchaperoned?).

To me, true conversion takes place in one's heart, as does true repentance and confession. Are these young folks confessing out of fear or because they feel truly moved to do so? Just hearing what my sibling and my friend said, it's more a fear-based thing. And that is truly a shame. JMHO.

Elspeth said...

What I find amusing is how that same group of fundamentalists do not consider Catholics christian, yet the Catholics gave up the public shaming of people because it wasn't good for the soul. They undoubtedly do some group confessing and "witnessing" at Journey to the Heart and each one must write out about what they want to change after their "learning experience." They must find something wrong/sinful about themselves to fit in with the group. I don't know but expect that anyone who didn't would be assigned more fasting to "search their heart."

Nancy said...

Pic from Josh's photobucket, taken Monday when they were at the State Capitol.

http://s808.beta.photobucket.com/user/artreasury/media/January%202013/DSC_0186.jpg.html?src=pb_unauth

Pregnant? This looks more like real baby than a food baby. Different roundness of the tummy (not to mention, that sweater zipped up to the neck despite wearing a modest, white blouse underneath.

Joanna said...

Anna looks very pregnant in that pic.

tulip said...

I'm sure this time around Anna is in fact pregnant-about a month ago one of Josh's friends, after having just seen him for dinner, took to twitter congratulating Josh and went on to say something about hoping to catch up to their number, which Josh then retweeted for all to see...cryptic message of things to come? Also, cryptic message-that photo-Josh & Anna holding stacks of money, symbolic of what they'll rake in from TLC after they make the big announcement, lol. Tune in for yet another season of dr. appts, ultrasounds, bradley classes, and the big payout-that of the homebirth. Now that a family of 5 will have to squeeze into that teeny crackerbox house, prepare for more TLC freebies of a new home for Josh & Anna, as this will fit into the pregnancy storyline (the other components of the pregnancy storyline are beyond played & will not bring in max ratings!)...will the new house be ready in time for the arrival of the newest member of the family?...Ugh, I can just see it coming.

Anonymous said...

Firstly, if you are considering ATI and IBLP to be a cult, and in some ways it is, then the Duggars do not "belong" to a cult. They associate with ATI occasionally and use some of their materials, but they DO NOT always agree with ATI teachings, they do not work for extended times in the so-called "cult", and generally try not to come across as big supporters, because they're not. There are WAYYYY more families that are the more hardcore supporters of the program.
Secondly, JTTH is not how any of you described it. Little kids dont go, its generally teens or older.
Thirdly, the show is their job and they realize that. They just believe that they can minister with their job as well, just like every Christian should. I dont fault them there...

Nancy said...

No one claimed that the Journey/Indoctrination camp was for children. I've read up on it extensively, and it's for unmarried teens and young adults from 13-30. Marrieds go to Mom and Dad camps. Not sure where the marrieds w/o children go. Then again, their entire premise is built on producing Armies for God (and the underlying political power of the Religious Right).

Jana has been to how many "Journeys" either as a camper or counselor now? And now that Joy has become fractious, she's been sent on two in one year. They've gone on Gothard "mission" trips, use his homeschool materials, and Michelle has been shown (several times) passing out the 49 Character Qualities to well-meaning Christian ladies who want to lick her boots at luncheons. Their ministry is to draw people to ATI; 99.9% of their fanbase is ALREADY Christian.

They only go to Doug Phillips' Vision Forum events when asked to speak, or receive bogus Mother of the Year awards; Dougie knows that the Duggars are a draw and being the shyster he is, charges a pretty penny for his fringe adherents (the hardcore in both ATI and VF know the Duggars quite well) to touch Jim Bob/Michelle's robes, as it were.

I don't buy the modesty stuff anymore. They're every bit as egotistical as anyone who has gained a measure of fame. And if they're bad about feeding off the fame, Josh is the absolute worst. He is all about...himself.

tulip said...

"(the Duggars) generally try not to come across as big supporters (of ATI and IBLP), because they're not."

Wow, could've fooled me. Throughout the time the show has been on, there's been countless, albeit indirect or not specifically stated, references to ATI/IBLP, not to mention the Duggars website & books are chock full of promos for all things ATI/IBLP. I've said before that when The Duggars first came on the scene, I was interested in reading up on Jim Sammons financial seminars and a few other books, however, when I asked my local Christian bookstore about them, they had nothing on their shelves or even in their computer for them...guess what? You got it-visit IBLP, and THAT'S where you'll find them. Promo by name? No. Sneaky? Yes. Episodes that chronical the ATI family camps, Journey to the Heart, Character qualities, etc...But big supporters? Not the Duggars.

RJWife said...

Jim Bob getting back into pilitics, I'm afraid..very afraid!!

sandi said...

I don't think Jim Bob will make it very far in politics,just like last time around,JMO though.
Despite their being known from the show,the world is even more secular than it was the last time he ran for office.I just don't see him going very far with it.JMO.

sandi said...

All of them are holding money in the pics,if you go thru them? what is THAT about?
And I would really like to see Honey Boo Boo's family with the Duggars...I can only imagine what an episode THAT would be! :)

flowerchild said...

The only difference between the Boo Boo family and the Duggars is that the Duggars don't swear and June and Sugar Bear actually know and love each of their children individually everyday. It is what it is :-)

sandi said...

They accept them for who they are,too,flowerchild.Warts and all.I think that's awesome. :)
Unlike the Duggars,who seem to be trying desperately to change Joy Anna,by sending her off multiple times to indoctrination camp.I feel so bad for her,because you can see how much she's hurting when Amy comes over and she runs to give her a hug.It's like she clinging to the last piece of reality she has,and subconciously saying, "Get me out of here!" JMO.

Ashley said...

I don't usually join the speculation, but Anna definitely looks pregnant. If she's not, someone close to her should point out that tying something under chest emphasizes her stomach. I wore things like that when I was pregnant to show off my bump. :)

I thought that the picture with the stacks of money just looked like they had visited a treasury or some similar place - kind of like the trips people take in high school.

Mindy said...

Anyone wondering if the new "anonymous" posts are from someone in Josh's inner circle?

sandi said...

Mindy,yes I do wonder,and I'm just going to not acknowledge them anymore.

Nancy said...

Hoo boy. I saw some pics from a facebook page of a Duggar family friend (from ATI, duh). There's a pic of Pris and Anna (before Anna went darker with her hair). The sisters are wearing the same horrifically ugly black and white print top. The caption reads: "Priscilla and Anna...both expecting at the same time! [simultaneously, not same due date: that would make Anna due in early March!] Congratulations to you both! — with Josh Duggar."

I'm guessing this was taken at the Bible Bee, which happened right before David Waller's infamous run in while "gleaning" pecans. Pris doesn't look as big, and this was the first picture in a long time (before the one at the Treasury, which Josh couldn't crop - the pic is actually done by the Treasury Dept.; Josh had no control over what was posted, hence no crop).

Bottom line, there's the confirmation. I'm curious when they're finally going to make an announcement; by the looks of her in the red sweater, Anna has to be four or five months gone already.

tulip said...

I'm sure Josh & Anna's "annoucement" timing will be all about what TLC wants, and in return, money bags for Josh & Anna. They'll probably do their best to wait (it may even be in their contract!) so it all coincides with promos for the new season, so they can have their prime slot on The Today Show, and while all the followers are drooling in anticipation for the show, hence hitting 1 million+ viewership. They may even rearrange episodes (nothing new) postponing the Asia trip to squeeze in pregnancy stuff, since, honestly, will probably get higher ratings-the IBLP crowd just can't get enough of the "we're expecting!" storyline, in other words, would rather watch all the dr. appts., ultrasounds, and thrift store shopping for baby gear rather than the Duggar brood eating at a Japanese restaurant or Jim Bob attempting to communicate to the hotel doorman.

This is sad, though, as I think it's all about "the show" and the money that follows. Yes, it is speculation on my part, but why else would they be waiting? People in their circle have already alluded to it, and now on the Facebook page called out by Nancy, "announces" it flat out. If it wasn't for the show, etc., Josh would have already done what other celebs do, and broadcast it on twitter, Instagram, or even their own page. Until they prove otherwise, the writing is on the wall, not to mention, by the looks of it, she's well into the "safe zone" for public announcement.

tulip said...

Josh posting pics of March For Life, and a pic of him & Anna there-why is it at things like this (something serious/of importance, somber) Anna is grinning ear to ear with a big "look at me" smile? I find this so narcissistic, and rude. Just like when they were on the side of the road holding abortion signs, there she was posing for the camera flashing a huge smile (almost laughing)...not to mention, next to that March for Life pic, someone posts Anna is so pretty-hello? Again, something serious, and the followers are just wanting to make sure and leave a comment about how Anna looks-ugh!

Devil's Advocate said...

As long a some of us are speculating about what the next season will bring (assuming they aren't already done filming it and aside from China trip footage)... I'm thinking that there will certainly be GranDuggar 3.0, and that the large house we saw being cleaned out last season by Jim Bob and children will end up belonging to Josh, Anna and family. Decorating/organizing/moving into that big house will provide fodder for a few episodes, I guess. David and Priscilla's home birth will provide the opportunity to see Jill "working" on her doula/midwife/homebirth assistant skills. Erin Bates will quickly move from courtship to engagement and wedding, all Duggars in tow (imagine all of the Bates girls AND Duggar girls standing with the bride?). Jana will "move" to Gothard HQ in order to get away from home and find a husband to stay away from home (much like Priscilla did). Amy will also announce an engagement and get married on TLCs dime. I used to feel certain that Mrs. Bates would announce, carry and deliver #20 before Mrs. Duggar, but now I'm not so sure. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the two women somehow managed to get pregnant at roughly the same time and it's a race to deliver a healthy #20 first...

Rainbow68 said...

Devil's Advocate: As far as Michelle goes, I think they're done having babies, their remarks otherwise notwithstanding. When Jim Bob said, "I think we're just going to shake hands" on one of the episodes, it was a signal that they're done with babies. After the Josie ordeal and the Jubilee tragedy, not to mention, the chance of losing his wife has scared him into stopping this. At least that's what I hope.

Patrice said...

I think all of those things are possible, except for the Jana move. I used to have hopes that at least a few of those kids would come to their senses and try to figure out how to escape the compound. But the more time goes on, the less likely that seems to be a possibility. But even if Jana does move and it is only to Gothardville HQ, would that be better or worse than the prison she is in now? I hope she would not settle for a David clone.
The most likely scenario is fame-whore Amy with her fake persona staging a huge wedding just to be on TV again. That is one episode I will not watch!

Lisa said...

The Bates blog has an update about how the Bates family and Paine family went to visit the Duggar's over the holidays. In the only picture of Anna she is conveniently standing behind Josh...

Anonymous said...

I think Amy and Reed broke up. Anyone check out her Twitter lately?

Devil's Advocate said...

We can hope the senior Duggars are done having children, but in no way did I take Jim Bob's comment about shaking hands as a signal of their decision to stop trying. If you believe nothing else about them, I think it's MORE than obvious that they will NEVER attempt to avoid a conception. I think it far more likely that nature (or God, as they think) decides when Michelle's body is done trying to conceive...at menopause.

zebracrossings said...

Amy's instagram went private.

Rudy Tecat said...

Cousin Amy posted another one of her "pray for me" items on Instagram the other day...that usually means that something has happened. But, we'll have to wait for another anonymous Duggar friend to let us know for sure.

Elspeth said...

Amy's twitter today seems to imply that filming is going on today.

Nancy said...

According to Amy's IG, Jessa and Jinger were see being filmed "volunteering" at what I understand is a hipster (probably Christian) coffee shop on the UofA campus at a place called "Mama Carmen's." The rest of the brood was seen counting money ALREADY in the tip jar.

zebracrossings said...

Amy's instagram back up...hmmm

MandySue said...

I still don't understand why the volunteering has to be a family thing with 10 of them going. Why can't it just be two or three of them? To be honest who wants two teenagers and six little kids to be running around your business or nonprofit volunteering? How much work is getting done? Who is supervising the little ones? If it were me I would rather them not come, it would be distracting. I have a feeling there would be more work to do after they left than before they arrived.

Are Jim Bob and Michelle afraid of if they just let the older girls go alone they will never come back? Or see some purple haired kid? A wolf? Don't they ever get privacy? Alone time? That would make a normal person want escape.

MandySue said...

Link to Mama Carmen's

http://www.mamacarmen.com/cafe

Nancy said...

Amy's postings of late make me think she got dumped...yet another piece of her heart given away...

What is Jim Bob going to say about this, especially since some of Amy's pictures were pretty...graphic?

Elspeth said...

I think the reason that the "volunteering" involved so many family members was that it was a filming date with TLC. It's yet more grist for the episode machine is all.

Rudy Tecat said...

Anna's Instagram her with Josh, heading to DC...without the children.

Andrea said...

How very sad ... Come on adult daughters you can't have a job but we'll have you serve coffee for the TV cameras. Oh and we'll be close to a major university, you'll likely be serving coffee to students your age. But don't get any ideas about education or a paying job. We like to keep our women uneducated and sub-servant.

Also, Message to Anna: GO AWAY. Stop posting NRA propaganda. Trust me Jesus won't pack a gun.

Beth Anne said...

Re: "I still don't understand why the volunteering has to be a family thing with 10 of them going."

If you read blogs by adults who were raised in the "Quiverful"/fundamentalist realm, they speak to the mandate of the entire family with all kids being together and going places together at all times. Some may look at this as them just being one big happy family, but those who experienced this lifestyle say there is a darker undertone to the group mentality. It's about control and conformity, versus developing one's individual identify. The Duggars have said themselves in their books that they value the family unit over the individual, and if you visit sites like "No Longer Quivering," you can search for some of the testimony of those who felt strangled by being part of the group at all times.

It explains why toddlers and hyper young kids must attend hours-long events such as film festivals when they can barely sit still, as well as why the adult "children" must go to kiddie farms and places geared toward 5 years olds, versus 20 year olds.

summer11 said...

"Also, Message to Anna: GO AWAY. Stop posting NRA propaganda. Trust me Jesus won't pack a gun."

I could not agree with you more! I have to believe that her posting such things turns off some fans. Children died here. Although I'm sure both she and Josh will have a mouthful after Dr. Biden's discussion today.

On Josh's IG, there are pictures of he and Anna traveling as well as the two of them at a hockey game. Is the tie and sport coat really necessary in either of those situations? I don't get it. Also in the photo of them at the hockey game, Anna is conveniently wearing a heavy coat with her hands folded over where she'd be showing.

I bet this trip will be referred to as a second honeymoon (or would this be the third by now?) on the show... barf.

Betsy said...

It seems today is delivery day for Suze, Anna's sister.

CJ said...

Is Suze the one that stayed with Josh and Anna for a little while? I believe it was shortly after they were married...

hannah said...

Yes, that was Suzanne.

I wonder if Anna is allowed to talk to or send her anything.

Anonymous said...

On Josh's facebook, he was linked by another fb member in a photo where she typed in the caption that Anna was a 'soon to be Mom of 2' and then corrected herself in the comments 'Mom of 3' and then apologized to Josh. I would say number three is definitely on the way!

Lisa said...

Amy and Reed have broken up...or as it says..."taking some time out to concentrate on their careers"

http://www.examiner.com/article/amy-duggar-welcomes-new-challenges-2013-new-season-of-19-kids-counting

Betsy said...

Any further word from Suze about the baby?

Alberta Rose said...

"I prefer to focus on the things about the Duggars I like" then why would you consistently read a blog that is specifically geared toward Duggar criticism?

It's not. If it was, there wouldn't be the sort of rules there are. Second, the title is Duggars WITHOUT Pity. That can be spun one of two ways. As I said in a difference sentence "I have no pity for the Duggars". Third, this is a moderated board which means the owner of the board has the freedom to validate or invalidate what I have to say.

I've seen Michelle Duggar focus on Dolly Parton's singing and charity work. I've seen her engage in conversation with people wearing slacks or jeans. She's had her or Jim Bob's family come into the house wearing pants and still made them feel welcome. She has her way of life, she shares her way of life and leaves people to choose. I embrace some of her ways, some make sense to her goals but not mine and some make no sense. Like her, I have chosen to focus on that which I like and makes sense, sharing and supporting those aspects.

Rudy Tecat said...

I sure hope Amy takes time out of her busy busy schedule to bake another cake this upcoming season...Amy baking is always the highlight of any Duggar season.

Not A Fan said...

On a few things...

On Anna and her sister: It is a shame that a religion would keep you from seeing or talking to a sibling purely because they wanted out of that lifestyle. Why would anyone be a part of something that is supposed to be about family, yet seems to do a whole lot of shunning of family?

As far as Reed and Amy, I'm happy for him. Maybe he saw that being part of this circus was not for him.

Jac&Jil said...

Wonder what Josh's employee turnover rate is at his car lot? I think it would be hard to keep a good employee when the "owner" is off attending marches in other cities/states, taking field trips with the kids and going to amusement parks while they are all working.

And poor Priscilla Keller Waller traipsing all over the world and almost 8 months pregnant! I believe they are in Australia right now. Wonder what ob/gyn would approve of a patient being on a flight from Australia to the U.S. at this stage of her pregnancy. David Waller should be a little more considerate to his wife who should be home taking it easy and not trekking all over Australia.

Marites H. said...

Maybe David & Priscilla didn't think about Australia being in the opposite hemisphere with blazing summer temperatures. It sounds unbearably hot there, even more so when you're preggers and required to dress in extreme modest layers. I didn't think airlines (especially international flights) allowed women to travel in the last trimester.

Rudy Tecat said...

The Bates family's website has a new update, this one about abortion protests and "Dread" Scott (should be "Dred"...I learned that in high school).

sandi said...

Perhaps Amy could bake a going-away cake for Reed,if he goes to Tx.JMO.

tulip said...

What? That Examiner article featuring Amy is ridiculous-acting like she's the big star of 19k&c? Whenever Amy's on, it's an absolute joke. And describing her as the "energetic" and "loveable cousin"...oops, they left out annoying and airhead. "Back to her old antics"? Like when she made her raspberry bars? Yes, that was funny, because, doesn't everyone know? Amy is an amazing cook. Anyway, once again, it's all about her. Oh, I hope this season doesn't showcase her ups & downs of trying to make it as a singer-ugh-just as bad as another pregnancy. TLC, please, spare us. I'll (cringe) take Anna making googly eyes at Josh while waddling around in her too small flip flops over listening to Amy blab about life, love and music. Good for you Reed-stop wasting your weekends on teeny-bop date nights with Amy, and take your opportunity with big oil. Five years from now, she'll still be "working" as a nanny, peddling her whiny country tracks, and promoting herself as oh so likeable. Yuck.

Stephanie said...

Susanna Keller deliverd a healthy baby girl Noelle Brooklyn Keller yesterday and are already home

hannah said...

Congrats, Suze.


I wonder how other young couples feel that thesse two can travel and leave the children with family. If they only have one income and its a carlot(not a TV show). Why do need to in DC?

They are doing rallys? They can do it here.

sandi said...

I like the show better when Amy and Josh--if they must be there--just quietly fade into the background.I can't recall which episode it was..I think it was the one annoucing the overseaes trip..but it was a good one since they weren't allowed to take over;in fact,iirc,they weren't even featured in the show at all.JMO.

DuggarGoth said...

The Bates family's website has a new update, this one about abortion protests and "Dread" Scott (should be "Dred"...I learned that in high school). Not sure when they posted but the spelling mistake has already been corrected. Hmmmm... maybe they really are checking out this page lol :) I learned the correct spelling in high school as well.

Rayelle said...

http://blog.thebatesfamily.com/2013/01/21/a-duggar-day/

Again, notice Anna conveniently standing behind Josh.

sandi said...

Tulip-love your posts,they always crack me up! :)

Amanda said...

There's no way Anna's not pregnant. Every time I'm pregnant, she's pregnant (haha). The only difference is this is DEFINITELY my last:)

Most airlines will not let you fly past week 34-36. It depends on the airline.

Betsy said...

Susannah put up a couple of pictures of Noelle on her FB.

hannah said...

I do hope that she gets to meet some family. I wonder if close with the other shunned Brother. She`s a beautiful little girl.

Sarah said...

I think Susannah is living with her sister Rebekah. If not with her, then I think she's living very close to her so Noelle will get to see some cousins.

Devil's Advocate said...

I don't think we know for sure that Anna and Josh cut off Suze or will keep cousins from her/Noelle. I can see where it would be easy to make that assumption, but remember, J&A&family went to see her for that family reunion that Mr. and Mrs. Keller didn't go to... and Priscilla put Suze in her wedding (and her sister Rebecca, who isn't living Gothard-right, either). Granted, that was all before Suze's baby was announced, but I can't remember seeing anything one way or another out of Camp Jr. Duggar regarding Suze. Unless I missed something? At any rate, it sure seems that sister Esther and family haven't cut off Suze (Mr. Shrader is FB friends with her I think)and that lot is EASILY more Gothard-right than Josh and Anna. Just a thought...

hannah said...

Is that the one who lives in the trailer?

Ty's Mom said...

I just have to say that Josh's twitter is infuriating. The last couple weeks he's been going to every rally in the country. Where is he today? The rally for Arkansas education reform. REALLY?! What do you want to switch everyone over to homeschool? I honestly dont see why he would care. He and his wife have never gone to a real school and we ALL know that his children will never go to a real school. In case you weren't aware, Josh, Northwest Arkansas has some of the best schools in the country but you never do any research on the topics you choose to support. Get over yourself and quit trying to make a name for yourself because no one will remember who you are once TLC cancels the show. *sigh* I feel much better now! *end rant*

Patrice said...

Disgusting! And we are to believe that he is a successful small business owner? What does he do, text his staff once a day to see if they made deposits to his bank account?
Really shameful if they are doing all the work and making minimal salaries. He should not be collecting a cent.

really josh? said...

How does that show a good image?

I will leave my business with my workers and travel all over. I`ll buy fast food and fancy toys. However, I will fight against the government help, student loans, and fight what is a woman's own choice.

I took my wife on a bus when she was almost at the end. I also took a nap when she was in labor. I have my kids travel and go into different times zones and mess up the schedule.


Ty's Mom said...

Just one more thing and then my rant is truly over. Just how conceited does one have to be to quote yourself on your own twitter? *I'm looking at you, Josh Duggar*

tulip said...

IMO, it's not Jim Bob, but rather Josh who's creeping his way into a political career. Using 19k&c to become a household name, traveling to every march for this, march for that, posting pics of lame city council meetings and orchestrating his brother's midnight "swearing in" at the local gas 'n sip. Now his wife is even using her Instagram to post gun owner rights propaganda and Rick Santorum speeches streamed live. This is all so laughable. Josh has absolutely no education to support himself-he is a twenty something used car salesman. His wife, equally with no education, uses an anti-abortion protest as a photo op, striking a pose while grinning from ear to ear, meanwhile the mood of everyone else is somber, concerned...not Anna, it's "smile for the camera!" Not to mention, most recently bragging about the trip to DC, "just the two" of them, like it's some kind of second honeymoon. It's all really sickening. Sorry to have to say it, but, get used to it folks, they're just getting started.

rosemerry said...

I find the self-righteousness of the Duggars very jarring. Without any evidence they use their beliefs to try to bring the USA into the 19th century or earlier, while making use of twitter etc as if they understand modern life.
Contraception, public education, women's rights, acceptance of different ideas are all somone should expect of a modern democracy. They seem to go against this in a dangerous way by their influence.

Patrice said...

I can't imagine anyone electing Josh for anything. I know there are a lot of lame-brained politicians out there, but one with a barely minimal SOTDRT education is not going to cut it. At the very least, he would need a four year degree, or at least some college strong in political science. I doubt his prior education would even get him into a college. He has a lot of catching up to do to even think of applying. Thankfully the 12 year old swooning fans on his instgram are not old enough to vote.

MandySue said...

Josh has no real world experience. Why would anyone want his endorsement?

The whole education reform thing is laughable. He never went to school, his children will be schooled at SODRT. The Duggars look down their noses at anyone who would dare send their kids to public schools.

My favorite is his quote that parents should have a choice in their kids education. Kinda sounds like he's pro-choice to me.

tulip said...

I also think all this Josh & Anna political jetsetting is Josh playing "what I want to be when I grow up". Back in the first specials, when the kids were questioned about when they grow up, Josh mentioned lawyer & politics. Even when they were promoting college minus, he talked about wanting to take a poli-sci class. He's got money (thanks to his willingness to his exploit his family), so he can hop over to DC for a quick jaunt, or cross the state line on his way to SDC to show face for someone like Akin. Showing up at the local city council meetings on a whim or holding signs on the side of the road for an entire day is no problem when you don't have to show up for work. All his pics of himself standing in front of a podium with the American Flag as a backdrop in suit and tie are him playing dress up. Posing with Anna at every rally and convention is him showing he has his trophy wife too. All this kind of like, "See guys? I can do this!"...I think he failed to think about when he has to produce paperwork that shows he actually learned something in life other than how to pass the GED and fill out a bill of sale.

Not a Fan said...

Now taking trips away from my children all the time is not something I would do. That being said, I have known people to take a "babymoon" trip for every sinking pregnancy. Now if suspicions are valid here on Grand Duggar #3, it could have been something like that for them. I am not in approval, but can see that this may have been the case. I can't stand the things the Duggars do, they drive me crazy and set such a poor tone on what people outside of their bubble understand of Christian people. I'll admit, once someone tells me they are Christians, I can't help but instantly prepare myself for a long conversation with every other thing said being about God or bible speak. I was raised Catholic and although I'm not devout, I understand the difference between believing in God and worship as it is intended as apposed to this crazy life with guidelines that are supposedly put in place by the Bible. If I don't stop now, I'll start to get mean and I just don't want that.

MandySue said...

Just thought about this-

If, Heaven forbid, Josh is ever elected to political office, how would he deal with people how disagree with him? He surrounds himself with likeminded people. Other than protesters at rally's, who he doesn't deal with. People in his day to day life agree with him.

I can't see him running for even a state office, he's not personable. He wouldn't be able to handle anyone that would question him.

He would have to work with other people who disagree with him to get things accomplished. He has to do it without disrespecting the other person. Or looking down on them with conceit and contempt.

Marites H. said...

The entire Duggar clan seems totally isolated from anyone who might have a different thought or opinion. Out in the "real world", they would meet people who are different from them. We must learn to "agree to disagree" sometimes to work together. Remember that hypothetical example of a guy with green hair at college with Erin Bates? God loves that guy, too -- not just Gothard and his faithful followers.