Free Discussion, July, 2013

Please use this for Duggar and Bates sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, politics, religion, or personal stories. If the comment is more about you or some other issue than the actual Duggars or Bateses or other families seen on the show, please rethink before sending. Thank you!

100 comments:

Nancy said...

Happy July, everyone! Got a peek at the Duggar Picasa photo album. The family was apparently in DC last week (pics were dated 6/24) with a film crew in tow. There was also a picture of Anna with her mother and the baby.

Josh is listing his residence as DC-proper. Not sure if I believe that, especially given that on another appearance on Tony Perkins' radio show last week, Tony chided Josh about the commute. He wouldn't be saying that if Josh could simply ride the Metro a few stops to get to work.

So, it looks like the season will begin with Josh and Anna setting up house, totally inundated with Josh's famewhore parents and the siblings he never seems to acknowledge. No way they'll show Josh at his job, especially after the Paula Deen fiasco. TLC may program garbage 95% of the time, but they certainly know how to attract some high-profile advertisers. The risk of showing Josh at work might be too much for TLC to attempt.

Rachel said...

siblings he never seems to acknowledge:

WOW! You hit the nail on the head Nancy. I have never noticed that until now. He is not the warm big brother that you may expect from the oldest. He does not even appear to interact with the other adult children. Strange.

Allison said...

In the Washington Post, there is this quote:

“We’ll continue to follow the Duggar family in Arkansas,” said spokeswoman Shannon Martin, as well as Josh and Anna’s “life in the big city.” But when it comes to Duggar’s new day job, the cameras won’t follow him there.

So for whatever reasons they may be, we're right that TLC won't be featuring the FRC anytime soon.

Jac&Jil said...

Check out FRC's new Call2Fall logo. I'm sure it was designed by David Waller. This even made it on Jimmy Kimmel on Monday night. Have a good laugh!

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/files/2013/06/2013_Call2Fall_Web_Banner_Long.jpg&imgrefurl=http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2013/07/02/frc-wants-you-on-your-knees-after-marriage-rulings/&h=212&w=535&sz=125&tbnid=Jzh61pBiCyLHrM:&tbnh=44&tbnw=110&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcall2fall%2Blogo%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=call2fall+logo&usg=__Mdwc1gj9uqXwRCSvuONSYg8LoDE=&docid=bPs6TrgeZ6KICM&sa=X&ei=zKLTUca8O-i_ygGRp4C4Aw&ved=0CEIQ9QEwBA&dur=1233

Stephanie said...

I think Josh is close to John-David. I imagine that anyway. He seems to use is sisters for baby sitting only. John may be closer to Joseph now that he has grown up.

TLC did not show any Santorum campaign trips so the producers know what they are doing.

Josh got a job and even though its controversial, its a real job and that is good. He must have met someone on campaign trail that helped him get this job.

I think Jimbob is jealous. Jimbob always wanted to be in politics in a major way, they were in Santorums face during that campaign and then Josh gets offered a big DC job? Don't you all think Jimbob wishes he were able to do that at 25?

Regarding Jimbob and Michelles sour faces when Josh told them, didn't Jimbob move his poverty stricken wife and 8 kids to Little Rock when he was in state senate?

Dar said...

He looks on his sisters and helpers for his wife, babysitters, etc. You never see him asking an of his siblings any questions or commenting on anything they might want or accomplish. The show is phoney phoney, phoney!

zebracrossing said...

Nancy...do you have a link for the pictures? I have searched and can't find them...thanks!

sandi said...

I suspect Jim Bob secretly likes Josh getting the job.He may have even had something to do with it.(IMO).
Although Jim Bob would be more qualified for it,there's no way he's going to leave the compound,the show, or AR life.So getting the Duggar name out there via Josh is the next best thing.JMO.

Nancy said...

Rachel, he only seems to interact with the "girls" when he needs them to further HIS agenda. As far back as his wedding, he basically referred to the oldest four sisters who trekked to Florida to sew bridesmaids' dresses as "the girls." I remember when they went to that "fancy" restaurant during the pre-wedding preparations (Anna was conveniently "sick"), when Jessa declare this might be the last time they see each other because they all will soon have "five kids each."

I can't find a google link, but go to the "Duggar Family News: life is not all pickles and hairspray" FB page. All the pics are posted there.

Faith said...

I read on the Bates family's website that their oldest daughter, Michael, will be going to El Salvador & Honduras on a missionary trip with Jana Duggar. I was wondering if the Duggars would be doing missionary trips again; it seems like awhile since a trip like that was featured on TLC.

Ashley said...

In case anyone is curious where Josh's family moved to:

http://web.stagram.com/p/492890726585688546_5173671

It appears that they are in Montgomery County, MD.

Ty's Mom said...

Josh has been surprisingly quiet on Twitter and instagram... I think he is realizing he is in WAY over his head with this new job and he actually has to work! Welcome to the real world, Josh.

Betty said...

Family photo.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/6485e2d982ad2a789e35d99014476d1e/tumblr_mplb9cxGY81r8mb1io1_500.jpg

Nancy said...

I think Josh was being sarcastic with that picture from Maryland. No way they chose to live in that haven of evil liberals.

Why the big spot between Joseph and Josh in the family pic, then JD shoved in behind people on the other side? Did they airbrush out Anna in that pic (obviously with a background TBD since it was done in front of a green screen)? If she wasn't, why weren't the kids positioned so there wouldn't be this gaping hole on one side and people crammed like sardines on the other?

I feel for the boys. They seem to have all inherited the dreaded Male Pattern Baldness from Michelle's genetic blueprint. Gee, thanks, Ma!

Tammy C said...

On Josh's Facebook page he put that he is the Texas capital for a pro-life rally.Guess he doesn't know that Austin is the capital.

Nancy said...

I don't think he's in TX, just that they're having a little protest. Love that someone called him out on his IG about TX just killing its 500th death row inmate (juxtaposed next to this #thoushaltnotkill hashtag).

Hasn't he heard about this thing called the Separation of Church and State? These people go on and on about the Founding Fathers, but always seem to conveniently forget this little tidbit of what these guys intended to differentiate the United States from the places they fled for reasons of religious oppression.

Idiot.

sandi said...

I kind of like the male pattern baldness in the Duggar males.It means they won't likely have that plastered political-hair look like Jim Bob acheives with a ton of hair spray.

Nancy said...

As for that rally in Texas, JB and Michelle were featured speakers (with JOSIE). No indication that any of the rest of the family was there. In fact, I saw a picture posted Monday that wished James a "Happy 12 "birtday" from Amy's Instagram. Joy apparently made it from ice cream and gummy bear lettering.

My guess is that JB sent the pic to Josh, who SHOULD be at work in DC. He was in sighted at a local SC-area Chick-fil-A on the 4th with Anna and the "kiddos." I know it's a pro-life rally and right in the Duggar wheelhouse, but man, pimping out Josie as a "miracle baby" is unconscionable. Or, in their parlance, merely an "investment." *sigh*

Any micro-premie would have received the same treatment regardless of the parents' religion (or lack thereof) due to the MEDICAL care; it has NOTHING to do with being pro/anti this or that. I can't believe people are dumb enough to equate the two. they arguing that people would abort a premie pregnancy rather than go through the experience that thousands of families suffer through as their babies struggle to survive? Earth to Duggars, not only the Christian ones survive.

Rudy Tecat said...

Anna posted a photo from Detroit's Metro Airport over the weekend...they must be on the move, too.

Londonbridges said...

I totally agree that a micro-preemie would have received the same care as Josie regardless of religious beliefs, race, etc. Josie received the same care not due to the fact that her parents are pro-life, but because of her needs. It makes my blood boil that some people actually believe other-wise. JMHO.

sandi said...

I think Josh referred to the capitol of Tx 3x on his instagram,without actually stating
which city it is.It appears he does not know.JMO.

Allison said...

He's not referring to the Texas State Capitol as in Austin, he's referring to the actual building where the rally is at.

Willow said...

Let me just state, as always, am not much of a Duggar fan at all, but just for the sake of honesty, I took Michelle to mean that she just wanted to point out that a 25-week baby can be viable and savable. I didn't take it to mean she thought Josie was saved because of their personal beliefs. Just my thought on that one statement. Not taking up for the rest of Michelle's statements, just that one thought.

rudy tecat said...

capitol=building, capital=city

sandi said...

Rudy,that's what I got out of the pics,too.

Nancy said...

I don't think a neonatal team at a trauma unit purposefully tries to kill a 25-week fetus whose mother went into pre-term labor. Quite the contrary, they do everything they can to save the fetus.

Do no harm and all that...

Again, Duggar logic fails since a woman does not choose to go into preterm labor at 12 weeks when a fetus is not viable to 25 weeks, which is about the edge of viability with today's technologies. Some babies make it, some do not. Josie herself almost died around day 8, IIRC. Some are delivered not breathing and cannot be brought back. Even Michelle said, "Never trust a premie."

Elvira said...

Leave and cleave, not so much. Mama Duggar plans to beat a "patch" to DC with her family.

duggarfamily.com/content/michelle_blog/33910/how_the_duggar_family_is_getting_ready_for_josh_and_anna_s_relocation

Ty's Mom said...

"Leave and cleave, not so much. Mama Duggar plans to beat a "patch" to DC with her family"

For the Duggars being so religious, they sure lie an awful lot. Jim Bob & Michelle's expression told the truth that they are not happy with them moving to DC.

Honestly to me, the whole having a family member out there on a regular basis sounds likes they are sending a chaperone to watch over them and make sure they don't stray from their Gothard ways while in the big city.

I can see maybe sending some help out there for the first couple weeks since they're in a new town with a newborn, but once they get settled, leave them alone. But then again, it was one of the Duggar girls idea for them to be out there all the time. Perhaps Jinger trying to escape? lol!

Willow said...

Oh my gosh, you guys, can you believe It? Even for Michelle? They have to have someone from home with them at all times? A married couple with 3 children? And of course, they also HAVE to make sure they have the extra layer of a church family to watch over them and encourage them. I just want to take Michelle and shake her!!! Why can't they live their own lives? Visit, yes, of course, and often if you want. But to make sure there is someone there all the time? I can't stand it. It really won't even help the older girls (or boys) that much, either, because they will probably be kept busy babysitting and going with a chaperone at all times, so it really is no big chance for them either. I am just angry beyond words. And her arrogance about the whole thing. Ugh, I can't take it. And by the way, I think part of the deal is just that Michelle can't stand to be left out of anything. She seems to be making Josh and Anna's issue all about her and how close she is to her children. Ick. (Sorry for the rant!!)

flowerchild said...

Well michelle may be closer to Josh she actually raised him now if it was one of the younger ones she probably doesn't even know their names. Personally this is all for Tv and appearances.

Anonymous said...

This family is seriously enmeshed. If I was Anna I would be pulling my hair out. These people are the in laws from hell!

Family is wonderful. So is privacy. So is getting the chance to bond with your own immediate family without having your extended family barge into your home all of the time. Boundaries are a good thing.

There isn't a doubt in my mind that this family is a cult. They desperately trying to keep control of their grown son's family. Leave and cleave. It's time to let go. You know you have done a good job in parenting when you see your grown children functioning independently and happily within their own lives. Visit every now and then and be proud of raising a happy, well-adjusted adult, but LET GO!

sandi said...

I think it's for appearances as well.Can't have anyone thinking Josh and Anna might be going secular in DC,now that they're away from small town Arkansas and the main compound.
For once, I hope the Duggars are making this up,and that it isn't true.I think Josh and Anna and family deserve some privacy.I get the feeling Michelle didn't write that whole piece by herself..I think Jim Bob helped,and it was approved by him,to help w/ any negatice public perception some mightthink such a move might generate.JMO.

MandySue said...

If there is a Duggar with them all the time, there will not be room for Anna's family. Do the Duggars even consider them at all?

I don't think that is encouraging to Anna at all.

Being in someone else's home 24/7 is not J.O.Yful at all.

hannah said...

If a girl does move in. I bet they love just 3 kids and a mom who cares for the kids I do think they need to just leave them alone. Josh is the one who moved his family and newborn away.

mythoughtis said...

I doubt that the Duggars will be at Josh and Anna's as much as they might think. Jim Bob is not going to want to pay for air fare that often. Nor will he trust his kids with Anna in the Big bad world of DC all that often(Josh will be too busy at work to chaperone himself). He will believe they are safer in Central America.

Also, he can't abide having missing offspring when it comes time to be filming.

I sincerely hope Josh is RUNNING without letting them realize it.

Leah said...

I think having a guest in your house most days out of the year would put such a strain on your marriage. You need privacy just to carry on conversation like you normally would without a constant houseguest. Jim Bob and Michelle, as usual, don't see things from any perspective other than their own. They really do seem to be trying to sustain a cult following among their children.

Also... Beat a patch? What the heck is that? I've noticed Michelle often blunders common phrases. I think it's because the woman doesn't read enough. During the Jordyn surgery episode, Michelle said "beckoning called" rather than "beck and call". Wow, I'm glad this woman is responsible for 19 people's educations.

Allison said...

I sort of have a feeling that these "essays" are done over the phone (hence all the misspellings of Jordyn's name) and that they are cobbled together from things that Michelle says. I think some of the phrases are parsed together to perhaps make them sound a little more serious, and perhaps her a little stupider, than they really are in real life. A lot of her writing just sounds like she's speaking to someone (someone who is clearly not a very good editor!).

Pam said...

Leah, I don't think Michelle is responsible for anyone's education anymore. Isn't that Jessa or Jinger? She's too busy trying to create more "blessings". One episode Jessa/Jinger said the little kids do real "good" in school. Banging my head on my desk now.

Londonbridges said...

Yes, privacy is vital in a relationship. The irony is that JimBob and Michelle have their OWN private love-nest, where they have the opportunity to have privacy. Seems like a real double-standard to me.

Leave and cleave doesn't include the Duggars. A visit every few months would keep the elders in contact with the youngers. As I have stated before, if parents have raised their children with good values and morals, said children ought to be able to live and thrive anywhere. JMHO.

Beth Anne said...

Re: Jessa/Jinger said the little kids do real "good" in school.

Banging my head, as well! It should be do "well" in school....good is an adjective describing a noun, i.e. good food, good test results, etc. and "well" is an adverb, i.e., run well, do real well in school. And, everyone please don't punch me, but there is research out there in the big, bad scientific world that indicates a link between large family size and lower IQ....I know there are a tremendous amount of exceptions out there, as well as many highly intelligent homeschooled-children who excel in college and the workplace. It's just that the Duggars seem to personify some of the negative stereotypes of being under-educated and over-controlled and/or sheltered.

February said...

The Duggars have become a monster. How did this cute large family who made their own detergent evolve into people who are now influencing politics? The power of creating undeserving celebrities from reality tv disgusts me. Especially when they are so intellectually inferior.

sandi said...

Yes,I'm tired as well of the Duggar brand of politics.I wish tlc could keep them out of it but I see that isn't happening.I wish the show would end.The more the Duggars show their true political colors and nature,the whackier they all seem to become.JMO.

Anonymous said...

Re: the Duggar DC B&B - Maybe J&A will, between them, cobble together one spine and "a pair" and "encourage" the family to give them space to MATURE as a family. Now,THAT would be "exciting," but, I admit, highly improbable.

More likely, and entertaining, will be periodic episodes watching J cope with WORKING and employer expectations re: "deliverables" - the grassroots organizing with which he's allegedly tasked.

Whatever happens, IMO, I give the FRC gig a year before the, "I need to spend more time with my family" press release is issued.

sandi said...

I suspect Josh has signed a contract w. FRC and will be there for a certain amt of time,who knows how long.I can't see him giving up the carlot permanently unless he was sure of it.JMO though.
I think any interview he had was likely just a formality,and that he and FRC already knew he was going to get the position with them.Again,jmo.

Ty's Mom said...

Zach Bates has entered into another courtship! I'm surprised they are telling people about it after what happened last time. AND in one of the pictures they are holding hands! *gasp*

But he seems happy so hopefully things will work out this time. I like seeing the Bates kids in courtships. If Jim Bob waits too long, the Duggar girls are going to be old maids.

Slightly Freaked Out... said...

The fascinating thing about the Zach Bates courtship is Kelly's responses to comments. It actually provides some insight into the thought process behind courtship. I think some of it is skewed thinking but at least it more than just Duggar-style rote platitudes.

Rachel said...

I am think this courtship for Zach already looks more hopeful than the last one. The girl in courtship #1 looked traumatized in all of the pictures. It always looked forced. Zach and Whit look happy!

tulip said...

So beyond over the Duggars it makes my stomach turn to even attempt to comment about them anymore. They need to just go away, now more than ever. I do have to say that after reading the above comment by "February", that completely sums up my feeling about it all as well. Their ridiculous involvement in politics and Josh's "new job" is what officially sent me over the edge with these people.

TLC needs to bring back the Bates. Good for Zach. It really looks like from the pictures he has matured. And wow, his "girlfriend" is finishing up college while she works at Sonic-imagine that. Erin's courtship is taking it's time, no need to rush into hosing down hormonal overdrive by making it "legal" like Josh & Anna. Yes, I know, they're cut from the same cloth, but if TLC is going to keep devoting airtime and printing off paychecks in support of Family of Gothard, might as well be to the Bates. The light-hearted, genuine closeness of the Bates far surpasses the heavy-laden rhetoric & politic the Duggars have become.

Please, oh pretty please, no more paychecks for second honeymoons, book signing bus tours, violin "performances", baby deliveries, or tow calls. No more loads of laundry, food & fellowship, pretend trips to Goodwill, or fake grandparenting. One clip I did manage to see was when Anna & Priscilla were back in Florida with the kids. Watching just the snippet of time Anna's mom interacted with her grandkids making cookies was so loving, genuine and grandma-like, it made me realize how staged and envious Michelle really is.

Andrea said...

Just read through the Bates blog about Whit and Zach. They seem likely a lovely couple. That said, why is it that Kelly feels the need to reply to people questions about Zach's dating life. Apparently in Gothard circles holding hands before being engaged is a major no-no. Why is Kelly botching to reply to these questions? It's no ones business but Zach and Whitney's what they decide to do or not do before being engaged or married.

TLC bring back the Bates and ditch the Duggars!

A

Leigh Ann said...

Ty's Mom mentioned the holding hands. This was in the comments:

Gina July 18, 2013 at 9:27 am

It’s so awesome to see Zach has found a precious young lady he cares about and she also happens to be very pretty! They look like a great match and I am so happy to see Zach back in the courting-game! :) I can’t help but notice Zach has not set such strict boundaries for physical contact this time. I wonder how Zach came to make that decision? While I recognise boundaries are important for maintaining a pure heart, I must say I applaud Zac for his decision to be a little more easy-going in that area. As a psychologist, I know that often when you say, ‘Don’t spill the milk!!!’, the person will often go right ahead and spill it. In other words, sometimes setting extremely strict rules or saying ‘I can’t do this and I can’t go that’ can work against us, or cause us to stumble even more. Now that your children are entering into the courtship season of life, I’d love to hear more about what they’re learning in the area.

Reply

Kelly July 18, 2013 at 2:57 pm

Dear Gina,
Hearing the testimonies of some hand off married couples helped us reevaluate our thinking on holding hands. Sometimes in fearing bad choices, we make extreme choices that can be just as dangerous. That is not to say that hands off relationships are bad…we might have some children who decide to go that route and we’ve seen others who did that were a wonderful testimony. For Zach, after months of tears and hurt, he realized he didn’t really even know how to communicate with girls. Whitney became a great friend that encouraged him spiritually and emotionally through his heartache. When she went through a hard relationship, he in turn, encouraged her. They learned a great deal about communication and they became best friends…through thick and thin. Love, Kelly

Mrs. Bates is right, it has to be up to the individual couple. If a couple wants limits to need to discuss that between themselves and be in agreement. I remember in high school a youth minister saying "Decide how far is too far right at the beginning". But he never told us what we should and shouldn't do other than waiting until we were married to have sex. But things like holding hands, kissing (and what type of kissing)etc. he told us to think about and decide on as "what is OK for one couple may be too far for another". And he was right. I'm glad Zach figured that out before he had a whole string of bad relationships in his wake.

flowerchild said...

I think the Bates family seem do much more reasonable and flexible in their decisions. They see that their can reevaluate life approaches, such as dating, without compromising their beliefs. Way to go Bates :-)

Patrice said...

Nice that they can actually experience touching and hand holding with the one they love! BUT...the chaperone thing is still skeezy. Why do they need a whole flock of younger sisters to sit at the next table and watch their every move? These are people in their early or mid twenties!!!

Ty's Mom said...

I was reading through the comments on the Bates blog about Zach's courtship and Kelly wrote this...

"Zach wanted to hug Whitney just when he asked to court…in full view of their chaperones, of course. Erin and Chad want to save their first “real” hug for when he asks her to get engaged. They gave a side hug at the time of their courtship and give side hugs when they first greet if they haven’t seen each other in a long time."

This explains the weird side hug the Duggars are always doing. So I take it in the Gothard mindset that hugging leads to sex?? Or in Duggar speak "Stirs desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled."

*shakes head* I can kind of understand (don't agree with it but I can see their point) their reasoning for the side hug for "friends" but Jim Bob & Michelle only give side hugs to their children. Which is so sad. As a mother, I can't imagine never giving my son a "real" hug because some "religious" leader told me it was wrong.

sandi said...

Congrats to Zach and Whit! I was just sure it was going to be Alyssa and her 'special friend' announcing a courtship.This is a pleasant surprise. :) I'm glad he's moved on,and with fewer contraints.
Yes, bring back the Bates! They actually have interesting things going on in their lives,and none of the political nonsense.I hope we can see more of them.Please,TLC?

Beth Anne said...

Re: "I'm glad Zach figured that out before he had a whole string of bad relationships in his wake."

And I'm glad Kelly and Gil are supporting his decision in this area! Kelly made a great point in her response, that poor Zach didn't even know how to communicate with girls before, and I think all the rules and restrictions they lay on these young kids with the threat of hell-fire makes them terrified. Holding hands is a very natural part of a romantic relationship's progression, and giving the two people in the relationship some freedom and privacy to allow the relationship to evolve naturally is a wonderful thing.

Just had to share...a niece of mine once had an over-eager boyfriend from a fundy family, in terms of him bringing up marriage when she was, like, 16 years old. Terrified her, of course, and he went on to have several more "serious" relationships and to tell friends he was running out of time to find a wife (he was 19). We came to the conclusion that he was just eager to consummate a marriage because his hormones were going crazy. Not a good reason to push someone into marriage! (He is now engaged at 20)

hannah said...

Good for the Bates. I bet the Duggar Girls are jealous. You need to cut the cord and let them move on in life.

Rudy Tecat said...

I hope Zach and Whit take their time in their courtship, rather than beating a patch to the altar.

MandySue said...

The net show TLC should do is "Ditching Duggar"..or "Fleeing Fundy"

Emilya842 said...

Rudy, In the blog post or one of Kelly's comment responses, she informs readers that Zach and Whit are planning to get engaged in October and are thinking about a spring wedding. It appears they will have a short courtship like J&A. What I don't understand is why they are planning on what month to begin their official engagement. If you are planning on getting engaged and looking at wedding dates, go ahead and make it official. Kelly discusses the couple not wanting to miss the courtship phase, but wouldn't disussions that serious about marriage signal the couple being ready to move on to engagement?

That being said, Zach and Whit look genuinely happy! I much prefer the Bates family to the Duggars. Gil and Kelly seems like loving, hands-on parents. I also love that they encourage their children to get an education beyond high school/GED (even if it is an an ultra-conservative school).

Leigh Ann said...

It's not wonder these kids can't communicate with the opposite sex, they've never been allowed to. If they ever had normal boy-girl friendships a more serious relationship wouldn't be quite so foreign. But if you're convinced it's not possible to talk to the opposite sex without winding up with "desires" that's not going to happen. Jim Bob didn't want his girls talking to guys buying coffee. The older girls did seem to be holding their own talking to the guys in the ocean in Israel til dad came over and put a stop to it.

sandi said...

Patrice,I agree,and I hope the kids from these families figure out that meeting someone at the library or for a cup of coffee isn't sinful.I don't know why fundies always think dating=sex.Or what about simply a double date w a nice couple of similar age?
I'm still all for the old fashioned way of dating where a polite gentleman comes to the door with flowers and candy,talks to the girls' parents,does things like open the door for her,help her with her coat,etc., and takes her out to dinner and/or a movie,returning her safely at the time her parents request.I know it sounds corny, but it's better than the courting w a chaparone,and it gives the couple some time to get to know each other,and places trust in the couple that their parents have raised a young lady and a young gentleman who can be trusted to treat each other with respect,even outside of other ppl's prying eyes.It's what they should strive for.
jmo.

Patrice said...

Now I'm wondering, what happens if the couple does sneak a kiss, or lean in close to say something to each other that the "chaperones" can't hear? Do the little snitches take notes and run home to mommy and daddy to tell? And then what? Zach (or whomever the victim is) gets grounded or sent to the prayer closet, or kicked out? Or has to serve some other idiotic punishment? I wonder if these people realize how silly this all is: A 23 year old man meets a woman, falls in love, puts his arm around her, kisses her goodnight, (all normal healthy activities)but has to be accountable to his 14 year old sister and have his parents find out and punish him? I mean, really, there is no logic to it. As others have pointed out, all these people think about is sex. If they want to emphasize to their kids that they don't want them to have sex before marriage, then go ahead and drill that in their heads. But once they are legal adults, they have to make their own choices. They should not have to have their families spying on them and making decisions on whether they were too intimate or not. Gahhh! It's mind-boggling.

Irene said...

On another matter, I read somewhere that some of the older 'children' help ou Grandma in her shop. Do they get normal wages for that? And if so, are they allowed to keep that or do they have to give that back to the parents?

sandi said...

I don't think Jim Bob has ever commented on wages,other than that they get .03 per chore.That's in their 1st book.
Patrice,good thought.They could always play footsie under the table,too.LOL.
What about a 'Bates Reloaded' special? just a thought.

Sharla said...

Gluten Free, this is a blog about the Duggars and others seen on the show. Your political comments are not relevant to that discussion.

mom in texas said...

I am happy that Zach had the confidence to enter another relationship/courtship. He and this young lady seem much more relaxed and natural with one another. The Bates currently have 3 kids in relationships. This makes me wonder seriously what's the deal with the Duggar girls? Do they really have no interest in getting out of the family home, has no one showed interest in the girls, or is it really Jim Bob and Michelle holding up the process? I am not saying these girls should rush into being married but at least have the chance to explore having their own lives.

Pam said...

I really think it's Jim Bob and Michelle holding up the Duggar girls. If they are gone, there is no one to take care of the younger blessings. While Kelly and Gil also use the "buddy system", they don't seem to take it to the extreme the Duggar's do. They seem to actually see their kids as individuals.
I agree, Zach and Whitney look really cute together. I hope it works out for them. Oh and I am also glad to see that Whitney doesn't appear to come from a "super fundie" family and Gil and Kelly are still supportive.

Just Me said...

TLC has a video blog called Michelle's Take

It currently has a video called "Do the Duggars Date?" and one titled "Getting Everyone up and Out"

Patrice said...

That whole dating/courting/giving away pieces of your heart bullshit is getting old already. Obviously it is not working for the Duggars. "God", aka as Jim Bob, is not finding partners for these women. It is going to be up to them to start meeting people on their own. In part of the video blog, Michelle says something about not going out on dates just to have fun. Duh, Duggars that is your whole problem, Your definition of "fun" includes trips to Goodwill, petting zoos, train rides, family field trips to lame places meant to entertain 10 year olds. Did it ever occur to the Duggars that their adult spawn may have a different idea of fun? What is possibly wrong with dating for fun? It is fun to go out to dinner, a movie, a dance, a picnic, an outing with a date or a group of couples. Not every date leads to a hot and heavy roll in the hay. When will the Duggars figure this out? Their young men and women offspring have to wait for JimBob to approve someone, then have the entire families meet and sit around and giggle and watch while a possible courtship relationship is formed, then go through chaperoned dates, follow the couple on every possible meeting, and wait for the "boy" to ask the "girl" to be engaged...by the time this all takes place for each of the offspring, it will be too late for them each to have their 20 members of God's Army. I guess this is probably the ultimate goal. NO ONE will beat Michelle at the baby-making competition.

Nancy said...

Just found out from Josh's FB that he will be filling in for Tony Perkins on the FRC radio show tomorrow (7/25) 5pm eastern. Go to tonyperkins.com for a link to the show.

He's going to interview Santorum. This should be comedy at its finest, the blind leading the blind and all that...

seriously? said...

Agree with comments by "Patrice". AS IF there's anything unethical about dating for fun. Another measure of warped Duggar mentality is The Baby Maker's contrition for her youthful mistakes, including dressing 'cutely' and hoping for male attention. WHY take NORMAL parts of the human experience and weirdly assign to these experiences a sin-filled context, just to provide an opportunity to later piously, and, better yet, publicly, beat one's chest in a constant drone about self unworthiness as these past 'transgressions' are denounced?? Yo, Duggars: sometimes sex is in the eye of the beholder, so, seriously, what is wrong with YOU?

Nancy said...

For the lazy (like me), here's a link to Michelle's ridiculous interview, rehashing the same old, same old about "Duggar Dating Rules.
http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/videos/michelles-take-do-the-duggars-date.htm#mkcpgn=fbtlc1

She mentions "character qualities" then specifically, Gothard's "49 Character Qualities" a few times. Nothing like a little (or a lot) of legalism sprinkled in with "God's timing." Between the 49 and the "Seven Basic Principles" (all can be found on the IBLP website), it's virtually impossible to live a "godly" life without tons of guilt. There is no way that anyone, even Jill or David Waller, can adhere to all of Gothard's rules and regulations that twist the bible to fit into his box of the "godly" person.

IOW, if JB is checking off boxes in order to find suitors for his daughters, every boy is going to come up wanting in some area; it's going to be very hard for these girls to find mates. It appears that they are also unwilling to look outside of the Gothard box, unlike the Bateses: Zach's intended is not ATI, and if Alyssa's young friend (the Congressman's son) is involved in ATI, it's pretty loosely. I think he also attends a real college. The Duggars aren't having any of that.

sandi said...

Another measure of warped Duggar mentality is The Baby Maker's contrition for her youthful mistakes, including dressing 'cutely' and hoping for male attention. WHY take NORMAL parts of the human experience and weirdly assign to these experiences a sin-filled context, just to provide an opportunity to later piously, and, better yet, publicly, beat one's chest in a constant drone about self unworthiness as these past 'transgressions' are denounced??
----------------------------------

I think the Duggars like to set themselves apart from others,as if they are better than anyone else,and also this is a way of just downright insulting other females who dress this way.
There is no need to yell 'nike',hello Jim Bob...no one TOLD you to look at other women,and it's not their fault if you get turned on.
There are also things like foot fetishes,of which I'm sure some out there probably find the Duggar feet in flip flops a turn on.Clothing does not need to be revealing or sexy in order for that to happen.Goes to show you how little they really know about sex.JMO.

Allison said...

The thing that gets me about the whole Duggar dating thing is that it doesn't even appear that the Duggar girls do what little they say they are allowed to do (the whole group dating courtship thing). There has not yet been one mention of a single boy by name on the show, whereas the Bates seem a little more normal about courtship. Yes, they have their own little weird courtship ritual, but at least they are out there trying. Zach is on his second girl, Erin and Chad, Alyssa and John.

I think Kelly is pretty smart in some of what she says, in that she doesn't want her kids to get too emotionally attached (okay, whatever) but that you have to be someone emotionally attached. She says she sees couples who were so distant that even as married, they are cold to each other and that it isn't normal.

Michelle just keeps repeating the same stuff over and over again, Kelly at least gives us some individualized attention to each situation.

Willow said...

Sandi, you are so right about the flip-flop thing. I have thought many times that since they can't wear sexy clothes, they try for hair and make-up - and painting their toenails. It is human nature, for goodness sakes. It reminded me of that old story about the men who have to look at women in burkas. Eventually, all they see is their eyes and that is what they judge them on. You just cannot change human nature. Just put time and energy where it might be more useful. Just a thought.

Marissa said...

I want to give kudos to Kelly for something. She was asked what she would do her kids didn't follow all her desires for them (i.e. kissing before marriage, etc)? She replied, "Would I love them and still be their biggest fan if they don't follow all my desires? Yes!!"

Generally, when I read a blog from a fundamentalist who is "encouraging" one to not touch, kiss, date, etc and talks about how his/her children will court, I find that when asked how he/she would handle it if his/her child decided to "date" the answer isn't "I'd love them anyway?" I usually see some convoluted answer like "my kids have been taught that's wrong" or "why would they want to." What I think it all amounts to is "I will disown them if they do" or "I can't bear to think of it if they did because I would be a failure."

Kudos to Kelly for saying,essentially, they're my kids, I love them no matter what, no strings attached.

Willow said...

They don't come right out and say they will disown their children, because they know they won't. They want their children to THINK they will, however, as intimidation to get their own way.

Sharon said...

Someone saw the Duggars in Tokyo:
http://wtffundiefamilies.tumblr.com/post/56793454578/my-uncle-lives-in-japan-and-he-was-in-tokyo-at-the-same

seriously? said...

By Fundie standards, and for women sans college, those older Duggar females are getting a bit long in the tooth for single hood under Mommy and Daddy's roof. Maybe skinflint JimBob will have to part with some of those TLC bucks to sweeten the deals by offering Duggar Dowries!

Hannah said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzSFMXqGCfI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUXJVXHfgZ7ozSzA_KkIzFcg


Josh talking about upcoming events

Nancy said...

Have your barf buckets ready! A new FRC video is up, featuring Josh, inviting us all to attend the Value Voters Conference in October (no thanks...I've seen the full speaker list for these things and it's a "Who's Who" of whackadoos - Michelle Bachmann has been a regular in the past).

Note how long it took him to establish his claim to fame to "legitimize" his pitch. So much for getting this job on his own merits (as if the majority of people here believed the cock and bull story that TLC tried to sell).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzSFMXqGCfI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUXJVXHfgZ7ozSzA_KkIzFcg

sandi said...

I think frc should just admit they hired Josh to be a spokesperson for them, simply because he is from a large, conservative family on tv.

beth anne cherry said...

Anna, please stop referring to your children as "the kiddos"...watching the episode entitled "All You Can Eat"; and you just called them "the kids" ....much more natural than copy-catting your mothe-in-law's term "kiddos"...please, be yourself....hope you can break away and find your own identity in DC.

Beth Anne said...

Re: "Who's Who" of whackadoos -

As a conservative woman, I liked Michelle Bachman for about 2 minutes until I looked into her eyes more closely and swore I saw twirly-whirly swirls spinning around at rapid speed - yikes! I know there are whackadoos on both sides of the aisle, which is why I'm semi-puzzled by the Duggar love-fest with politics.

Seems like a big ego-fest to me, as all these folks think they need to tell everyone else how to live. For my "progressive" friends in politics, they seem to have a sense of intellectual superiority, thus feeling the need to make laws because they are just so much smarter than everyone else. I think for Jim-Bob, he has this sincere belief that he has passed down to Josh and the rest of the kids that the Duggars have a direct line to God...thus, they just MUST be in a position of authority making laws for others, because they are just so dang holy!

As a Christian, the LAST thing I'd want my kids to get into is politics...just doesn't seem very "Jesus first" to me. (Sorry for lumping all politicians together as power-hungry crazies...JMHO!)

Seriously? said...

I find it hilarious that any of the Duggars sign on with any organization with the forbidden word, "Research" in it's title. everything the Duggars stand for seems to scream FEAR at anything that might be learned from REAL, scientific research and study.

The Duggars seem incapable of discriminating between genuine RESEARCH and fundie Junk Science. "FRC" is a misnomer. This organization fears anything that even resembles true scientific scrutiny. Evolution, anyone?

Josh and his new job is as much a joke as that rinkydink used car lot and the "reality" of "...Kids & Counting".

sandi said...

I agree Beth Ann,and Jim Bob certainly is a very controlling person anyway,starting with his own family.And it's scary when someone like that gets into politics (thankfully he didn't get far) and wants to control everyone else.
And now he and the rest of the fundamentalists think they are going to control all of us heathens by outbreeding us and taking over.I don't think they're going to get very far.For starters,it's a recipe for financial disaster.And that's only one reason.
JMO.

Kerstin said...

I don't know whether this has already been discussed, but I think it's a bit risky to say if you love you're giving away pieces of your heart when you have 19 kids. In my opinion they are saying that there is only a certain percentage to love. So the love Michelle and Jim-Bob were capable of could have stopped at kid #12 or #15

Anonymous said...

Rudy Tecat said...

"I hope Zach and Whit take their time in their courtship, rather than beating a patch to the altar".

"...beating a patch to the altar"

Coffee out my nose. D hahahaha good one!

Beth Anne said...

Kerstin:

That is an interesting point. I believe the whole "giving away pieces of the heart" concept relates to romantic relationships. But, of course, there is no "romance" involved in these rigid courtships if the two parties cannot openly express their feelings or their hopes and dreams, lest they give away "too much." It's completely weird and contradictory to what a courtship and engagement is supposed to be about...which is learning about another person and allowing the relationship to progress naturally.

If course, I can't help but wonder if JimBob and Michelle have either consciously or sub-consciously passed on this message about guarding the hearts to their kids, in terms of familial relationships. The whole "side hugs" thing, like we can love, but we can't be too demonstrative or give too much love; the whole ignoring of the younger girls; the way Michelle was shockingly unemotional at the wedding of her first-born and oldest son...

And, we all know how JimBob and Michelle have made it abundantly clear to their kids that the love between the two of them is THE ultimate love relationship, NOT to be matched or surpassed by ANYTHING else. It's about THEM and their holy marriage, and the kids have to creepily decorate their hotel room with rose petals and love notes so their parents can once again have their love fest. Yuk!

sandi said...

Good point.They claim love multiplies the more kids they have,yet it's giving away pieces of your heart to have prior relationships.
So that would mean Michelle,having had high school boyfriends before Jim Bob,will never be fully able to love him like she could have,according to that theory? It doesn't jive with what they claim,imo.That is if they have the ultimate love relationship.
jmo.

Not a Fan said...

So this is off topic of what some are currently writing. I was just thinking again about the Duggar kids and the home schooling, given that most of America's 5 year old and up are gearing up for the impending school year. So I only know this because my twins start K in a few weeks. Part of their entrance requirements are to have vision and hearing screening. My kids ended up needing glasses. They never before showed signs of vision problems. They never complained, never tripped nor did they have what would be seen as a problem throwing, catching or chasing a ball. My concern is that because the Duggars do not go to school (private or public) they are not made aware of these requirements that might help to detect something they are missing. We missed this huge thing and spend a great part of our day with our children. I feel I am a very present parent and I missed this. I'm told I would have never known. So how can Michelle be sure none of her children have a problem hearing or seeing properly? She can't. I'm looking at this like our eye Dr. said. Most kids with problems seeing don't complain because they don't know any differently. So if these kids are constantly being touted to not complain as older kids, they may not say anything at all even when they do finally realize that they have trouble. Not to mention aside from the numerous dentist exams we've seen, I don't know if Michelle would even be willing to explore eye exams for her kids. I could be way off base with this but with these people you just don't know.

Londonbridges said...

I also thought Michelle was unemotional when Josh was married. She seemed to be unattached to her own child. Perhaps her children feel unattached to her as well. We have evidence of the younger blessings call out to their sister-mommies when they are ill or hurt.

It has always creeped me out when the older blessings arrange "intimate" times for their parents. Monitoring their mother's menstrual cycles makes me feel very uncomfortable. My cycles and "intimate" times have always been private. The Duggars may preach modesty and self-control, but they sure are focused on sex. JMHO.

Mom13 said...

I don't know about the Duggars and eye exams, but, as a homeschooler myself, I can tell you this. Our pediatrician does vision & hearing screenings starting when they're babies. Just last year, our then 9 year old daughter had a little trouble with the pediatricians eye chart, so he sent us to a children's eye doctor. She has a prescription for glasses now, but it's a very minor one at this time. They gave her the option to wear them or not right now. She only needs them for distance, so, as a homeschooler, we probably wouldn't have picked it up by ourselves since she doesn't have to see a chalk board in a classroom like school kids do. Don't other pediatricians do that? My older kids were in public school, and he still checked them, even though the school was doing it as well.

tator tot said...

The girls/women keeping track of michelles cycle and arranging the intimate outings of THEIR PARENTS ..CREEPS ME OUT TOO. Heck these girls/women need to be having a good time (no i dont mean all out party on and sex ..or maybe i do;-)..just huge ICK factor on the above. Will they ever have a life? Soo very sad.

katie_cheese said...

When I was in middle and high school, my mom had a period-calendar and she would chart hers and mine on the calendar. Mostly she did this because she was curious if we would cycle together, and also so she'd know when to stock up on sanitary products. HOWEVER, this was a private calendar between the two of us - my dad and my brother didn't know about it. And we certainly didn't discuss intimate activities.

sandi said...

My mom tracked mine,too.Mostly to see when I would be irritable (or to see if I might be pregnant...j/k).
But that leads me to a thought..does that work the other way around? Does Michelle track all the girls in the house,to see if they are normal? Not that they might be pregnant..I'm sure she knows they're not,but babymaking being their only ultimate 'career' option,I would think they would want to make sure all is well in that dept.
jmo.

Beth Anne said...

Re: Does Michelle track all the girls in the house, to see if they are normal?

My guess is NO, because that would be thinking beyond herself and her role as the Supreme Baby Maker. The girls' menstrual cycles have no meaning at this point, since they do not have their own wonderful Jim-Bob-ish husbands by whom to become impregnated. It's all about HER and JimBob's special status as the exalted married couple in the house who are the only ones who have that special love and can create babies. Who cares about the others?

Kerstin said...

I suspect that the whole pieces of your heart theory is one reason why the older kids aren't married yet. Maybe they're so afraid to give a piece to the wrong person that they prefer not to give it to anyone.

Seriously? said...

Re: tracking eachother's cycles: Boundaries, people.

Prior to tampons, birth control pill, and lack of technology-driven pregnancy testing, I can understand why a woman of that day and age tracked her OWN cycle, but that day has long passed.

Tracking anyone ELSE'S cycle strikes me as an intrusion on personal boundaries.

TheDuggars are a cult of weirdness. And, given their way, ALL of us would be legislated into membership.

puddin said...

How many more times do we have to hear the same information...their take on life...whats in the pantry..ooh they like pickles (this one cracks me up...) Same Old Same Old Same Old stuff...we have all heard it before ...and before that and before that and ...WOW waay back when we first heard it all...we get it...WHY OVER AND OVER AND OVER...? Cuz they do not have anything new to add and they are all so closed minded they would not let a new idea pop into their heads---I YELL NIKE ON THEM. Enough is enough and the same ole same old..like we the lowly knee showers and jean wearers do not have the ability to remember. Don't get me started on Michelles baby voice...or the fact that the young women will never have a life due to their parents...JimBo and Michelle would keep on having those blessings and passing them off to the older daughters til the cows come home..without a thought for their daughters and that its their turn to have lives and familys. ok im done sorry people but its just WRONG.