June 16 Big Family in Big Sandy

It's a challenge for any family to take a road trip but what about when that family has 18 kids? Watch as the Duggars embark on a trip to the ATI Homeschool Conference in Big Sandy, Texas.

30 minutes

104 comments:

chocolatebee said...

I have been watching the Duggars since they began their hour long specials some years ago and recall on one special Josh talking about dating. On the show he took a young lady ice skating and the whole family went along. Does anyone remember this? Or am I making this up? I'm wondering because when the Duggars speak of courtship they speak of it as if its not dating around, which I know it isn't. So were they not practicing courtship before? He acts as if Anna is the first girl he's ever been associated with.
Also did anyone notice how uncomfortable Jill seemed when asked about boys at the homeschool conference? She's 18 and should be able to discuss boys and remain pure. Even when Jim Bob was asked about potential courtship mates at the conference, he hesitated. I know that Josh and Anna met at a conference a few years ago (they've mentioned this a few times and on tonight's episode as well) but is this not the ideal way the Duggars want for their kids to meet potential mates? Were they against this idea? Maybe Jim Bob wants to choose the courtship mates because he has 4 daughters coming up with the exception of John David (who I personally can't imagine with a wife!)Anyone know what this is all about?

Willow #1 said...

This is the kind of Duggar show I really like. Their conference looked like a lot of fun for the kids. This is like vintage Duggars. Did you all pick up on the hint about the Duggar/Bates clan MAYBE having a hookup? I can't recall the exact words, but will re-watch it later. Actually, I didn't even mind JB in this one. He was helping out with making lunch etc. and he didn't seem arrogant to me at all. It seemed like the camera stayed on Erin Bates when the subject of matches came up. They even asked JB before the Duggars left home (about possible matches at the conference) and he was grinning so hard and laughing, he had a hard time answering in a neutral manner. This show was SO much better than the dentist and the new blinds.

Anonymous said...

I just got a chance to watched the Duggars episode and I'm glad to see I am not the only one who picked up on the Duggar/Bates courtship hint. I'm thinking maybe Jana and Nathan Bates or Erin Bates and John David.Did anyone noticed how flushed and nervous he seemed?!It was so cute.I was a little confused in the begin because Jim Bob seemed unsure about his kids meeting courtship mates at the conference even though Anna and Josh met there.

I did enjoy this episode but was a little disgusted by Justin eating off of the ground. The Duggar kids have some habits that need to be changed.But for the most part it was a great episode and I would have loved to see more from the conference.Johannah is growing up so much and she looked so cute along side the rest of the clan singing at the end. It was nice.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

I noticed that at the convention there are a lot of fun things for the boys and for the girls their activities were of a more serious nature.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

Jill may just have been uncomfortable with the question or was not expecting it and did not know how to answer it. Who knows why she did what she did.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone else catch Michelle asking the baby at the Mexican restaurant: "Do you like Spanish food?" Ugh.

Shawna said...

Every time the Duggars are around the Bates, the camera always zooms in on Erin Bates, and then on John David. And did you see John David waiting to talk to Mrs. Bates? Future mother in law! At least that's what I think. I really like John David, from what I've seen. He's so unlike his older brother.

Amabel said...

Michelle asking the baby if she liked "Spanish" food was not that big of a deal to me. My family is Hispanic and yet they refer to themselves as "Spanish"... it bugs the hell out of me because they should know better (seriously, sometimes I feel like screaming at them, "You're not from Spain you idiots!). But honestly, that's what most people call Hispanics anyway. Apparently that extra syllable is just too hard for everyone. Yeah, it annoys me, but it's nothing to get worked up over. Unless you want to drive yourself crazy correcting every single person who uses the word wrong, which would get pretty tiring because a lot of people do.

notafan said...

The boys get to learn rapelling and climb the rock wall. The girls get to take music lessons and babysit. Something wrong there!

Anonymous said...

I don't think JimBob is willing to give up his slave daughters for "courtship" yet. Who will do the cooking, cleaning, laundry and child rearing while his wife cares only for her 'buddy'?

He won't let them go to college or pursue their own dreams of a career, travel, friendships, dating or anything else.

It's far more important to Jim Bob for those older girls to do household chores all day long. This is one of the reasons that Jill (and Jana) seem so immature and naive. She doesn't do anything except laundry and dishes and carry around her mother's children. She hasn't had to form an opinion on anything, or defend it, as children who go to school do. She can't even speak up for herself in any situation. Such a shame. One day, her father will pick some guy for her, and she will begin her own idiotic "courtship" and then become a breeding machine, just like her mother.

It's unfortunate that there will be another generation of Duggars, as unenlightened and uneducated as this one.

Anonymous said...

I thought it was quite obvious that Jim Bob is hoping for a match between one of his brood and a Bates kid. The way the camera stayed on sweet Erin Bates and then swung around to show nervous John-David... yah, there's something going on there... or at least the camera crew wants you to think there is!

The "Spanish food" comment irked me a bit. My fiance is from Spain is sensitive about that. But really, it's not that big of a deal over all. A lot of people we know do the same thing and you can't change the whole world.

I was also a little irritated that the boys got to go off and do fun cadet training but the girls had to teach Sunday School. What if they wanted to go climb the rock wall too?

I was impressed that Jim Bob never lost his cool while changing the tire. That sort of thing can cause stress in any family, especially when crucial tools have gone missing. But he never snapped at anybody (that we saw) or even looked beyond mildly annoyed.

Admirer said...

It was hardly a 'hint' that there is a new romance in the air....didn't anyone else pick up on Mrs. Bates saying to Michelle, "I didn't give it away." I agree it's probably the oldest Bates girl and the 2nd oldest Duggar boy, although they kept moving the camera from one to another like, "nope, it's not me - not me - who could it be?"

ALL of the Duggar girls are so nice, I hope they all find equally nice young men to marry.

Is there anywhere to go online to find out more about the Bates? I can't keep track of all of them any more that all the Duggars!

Anonymous said...

Michelle did look like she could be pregnant. It very much looked like she was wearing a maternity blouse. Perhaps she is, and they are waiting to make their announcement so as not to "upstage" Anna and Josh? Anybody?

Anonymous said...

I might agree that the "Hispanic"/"Spanish" distinction isn't important--if the person making the error weren't homeschooling a throng of kids. I think teachers should be able to handle the extra syllable.

Tammy C said...

Should be intersting to see if any Bates and Duggars ever match up and marry.

The former camera man was hysterical in saying that the Duggars are always late.This is something that will probably never change until there are about 5 left at home!

Stephanie said...

Erin Bates is a beautiful girl!
Anyway, I liked this episode. Funny about JB being so nervous to speak...wasn't he a state representative?

Anonymous said...

I like the Duggars OK but when she said do you like Spanish food, she sounded like a real rube. I live in So Cal and that was run-of-the-mill microwaved MEXICAN food. I thought it was funny.
As for Justin eating the hotdogs that fell, there was a reasonably clean tarp under the grill. The Duggars are by no means heath foodies, but when meat drips juices that flame up onto the meat, that substance in the food is carcinogenic and those burgers/dogs were on fire! That bothered me more than the ones on the tarp.

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed this episode alot because it just showed kids being kids, the hassles involved with traveling in bad weather, camping , etc. As for the courting thing, seems too many people are so curious about what Duggar will marry who. It will all happen soon enough, and I do believe the Bates/Duggars encourage that spark to grow.

AmyKB said...

interesting episode, I enjoyed seeing more of their homeschool convention activities than last time.

did anyone notice the bubble that popped up and said they packed 642 pairs of underwear?? I thought the trip was only 1 week, not 1 month.

Anne Elizabeth said...

SuzanneDeAZ said...
I noticed that at the convention there are a lot of fun things for the boys and for the girls their activities were of a more serious nature.
------------------------------

I noticed that too. The boys seemed to be doing the outdoorsy type things like rock climbing and the girls were stuck inside. I think the babysitting thing was something the older girls volunteered to do, but when they showed the orchestra it seemed to be all girls. I wonder if the boys and girls are kept separate for all their activities?

Crackerjack said...

AS USUAL, the Duggars are running late for their departure for their trip to Texas; even the crew makes mention of "Duggar Time" meaning they never leave on time. Even with the majority of the kids sleeping on the bus the night before, they still can't get away on time.

I have decided that Jim Bob has little to no common sense. Who tosses an open umbrella down on the ground during a storm where the wind is blowing? Because they were running late to their speech, he just threw the open umbrella down on the ground for someone else to chase or deal with. What a doofus!

Have Josh and Anna had surgery to join them permanently at the hips, waist, chest, shoulder, arms, etc.? They act like kids in junior high with their first boy/girl crush, in a perpetual embrace. Really, really silly!

Not a Duggar Fan said...

342 pairs of underwear???? Excluding the members of the family who wear diapers, how many times a day do these people change their underwear? 342????? Were they gone for weeks and weeks?

BoyMomInTX said...

Oh, I'd bet money that John David and Erin are getting married next! He wasn't on camera once on the entire trip to TX and wasn't there to help with the tire problem, but as soon as we saw the Bates, there was John David. Then, they zoomed in on Erin. LOVE IT! I was hoping he'd get together with her! Poor Jana though-she seems so ready to get a "relationship" of her own...

BoyMomInTX said...

Anyone catch that Michelle was wearing the same shirt that Anna and her mom wore when Josh proposed? Weird.

Paige said...

Of course there will be a Duggar/Bates hookup; they don't know anybody else.

jonandkatewho? said...

Sorry to those who love this family, but I just can't seem to get through an episode without falling asleep. Funny, everybody says how different the Duggars are from the Gosselins, but both shows have the same effect on me....zzzzzzzzzzz.....I'm outta here....guess I'm just fed up with big families capitalizing on their kids.

Anonymous said...

If they know the kids get carsick, why don't they get a Costco-sized pack of Dramamine? Why have all of em feeling bad the whole trip?

Harriet said...

They've shown the huge packs of motion sickness pills in prior episodes. Maybe it was cut out or they thought it would be redundant repeating it. There's also a chance it didn't work well for them.

Not a Duggar Fan said...

AmyKB said: did anyone notice the bubble that popped up and said they packed 642 pairs of underwear?? I thought the trip was only 1 week, not 1 month.
***************************************

642?!?!?!? I thought it was 342 and even that was crazy! (I can't read the tiny print in those silly pop-up boxes.) What in the world is going on that they must take that much underwear? And does this mean that they are driving back home with 642 pairs of DIRTY UNDERWEAR???!!! Does Bill Gothard send the ALERT cadets from campsite to campsite to do an undie check? If the little kids are going through so much underwear, then a trip to the doctor is in order. If the big kids and adults are going through so much underwear, then a trip to the doctor is DEFINITELY in order!!!

I didn't think the girls looked like they were having a lot of fun. Basically, except for orchestra practice, they have their same daily routine without the luxury of their giant washers/dryers and industrial-size kitchen. I didn't think the assembly with the rowdy kids looked like fun---it looked like the girls' regular day, but on steroids.

Why did Josh and Anna go? They aren't home-schooled anymore. Seems like they ought to be at home selling some cars so they can pay their bills!

Iris said...

I would be car sick too if I had a big lunch of SPANISH food and then had to ride in that swaying bus as Jim Bob drove all over the road.

Personally, tires are something that I do not scrimp on. Jim Bob, "buying used and saving the difference" on retread tires can get your family killed.

totallyhonest said...

I have to agree that this is "vintage Duggars". This show is supposed to be about how the Duggars are different from everyone else (not about how they also have their teeth cleaned and removed) so I was actually entertained this week.
A couple things bothered me though: while it is certainly understandable that the girls might want to "teach" while the boys go off and and do "boy scout" things, it bothers me that there weren't even a couple girls or boys doing the opposite. This shows that they obviously don't have a choice. Out of the hundreds of kids there, at least a couple girls would have wanted to go rock climbing.
Next, I really hope that a Duggar/Bates union isn't in the works. They are just too young. Erin Bates looks like she has the matiurity of a 10 year old. That is pretty harsh but it is true. The episode where the Bates came to visit and she was interviewed, she came off as really young.
Also, Josh and Anna need to stop being all over each other. I don't know why Jim Bob and Michelle haven't told them that it isn't appropriate for them to have such PDA all the time. They act like two teenagers who can't wait for their parents to leave them home alone together.

notafan said...

I have a feeling Joy-Hanna would have loved to climb the rock wall and do the rapelling. She seems like a bit of a tomboy. But of course being cursed at birth by being born female she is doomed to a life of Duggar drudgery. I'm sure she will be responsible for the cleaning and cooking before long. And John-David, I dont know about him. I suppose he is just shy but sometimes he seems so backwards to me. Isnt he 19 now? What does he do? He must be done with high school. Is JB going to give him a used car lot also?

2girls17 said...

Well, actually, Josh and Anna ARE two teenagers who can't wait to be home alone together!

Anonymous said...

More and more I am struck at the real struggle that the Duggar family has because of their size. It is no longer interesting to me, it gives me a gnawing concern in my stomach. The trip to Texas was a major undertaking and I thought the bus looked like a terrible way to travel. I doubt a lot of the little kids were tall enough to see out the windows and it looked cramped and dark. I don't think the Duggar kids are allowed to complain so I'm guessing everyone rode nauseated and miserable. The sheer effort of amassing the enormous amount of food, water, 642 pairs of underwear, clothes for everyone, etc., would have completely spoiled the trip for me. I love camping and traveling but I imagine the little boys were the only ones who really had a good time. The older girls were probably missing their bathroom and amenities and trying to get to sleep with 20 people in a bus is a big ZERO in my book. I sure hope Josh and Anna weren't squeezed in there somewhere! Awkward!

Even the trip to New York where one of the little fellows was lost in the airport looked like a lousy time. Just the sheer logistics of dealing with so many children has to be exhausting to all concerned. I really feel sorry for the entire family, Michelle and Jim Bob included, because I don't believe they had any idea that it would come to this and I don't think it's the greatest environment for children to grow up in. Sure they have a lovely home and get to take cool trips and their parents obviously love them, but who is "falling through the cracks", what is the real effect of a pathetic education, what are the long-term effects of marrying a stranger? My early interest has turned to sadness and dismay.

Anonymous said...

Crackerjack- you are right on.

The older girls spent half the night packing the bus and he can't even get his own stuff together on time? Oh yeah, he had to primp in front of the mirror first.

Also, do I sense a hairspray endorsement? He must be known for it in that circle for the girl to want him to autograph a bottle of the stuff.

Anonymous said...

notaFan said:
And John-David, I dont know about him. I suppose he is just shy but sometimes he seems so backwards to me.

I'm glad someone else finally has noticed this. I have never heard anyone make mention to this fact but John David seems a bit challenged. I am not sure how to word it but sometimes he doesnt seem to be all there or as if he isnt 19 years old. While I understand John may have had a disadvantage being that he is a Duggar and they lack a lot of real world experience, it just seems that he may not be mentally his age. I dont think the Duggars would even call attention to this if it was true. I think any kind of imperfection in kids would signify a failure.I could be so wrong, he could just be goofy but he something tells me that John David maybe slightly challenged.I noticed how he very rarely did interviews or talked on camera in the beginning and even now he still talks very little.

Anonymous said...

I wonder how Josh and Anna met at the home school convention. It looked like the sessions were pretty much segregated by gender. At least if John David and Erin Bates are "matched" and begin to "court" they should know each other better than Josh and Anna did. If I remember correctly Jim Bob said during the "courtship" that they met at the home school convention and then the family came by the Duggars home on the way home. I may be wrong, but I got the impression the Kellers and Duggars didn't know each other before then. At least the Duggar and Bates families know each other and apparently have for a while. So maybe that would be a less awkward situation. A strange one though.

Mommy in PA said...

I just loved Michelle's comment "Jim Bob doesn't like to speak in front of a large crowd".

Um, in case you hadn't noticed..... Your family IS a large crowd!!
(And it will be twice as large if one of your kids marries into the Bates family, cause they have 17 kids!)

SJ said...

The girls can't do the rock wall/outdoor activities because they have to wear skirts. Of course they don't have a choice! That would be immodest! You can't strap a harness around an ankle length denim skirt. I would be seriously mad as a little girl if my brothers got to do that stuff and I had to sing songs and do crafts and babysit. Sweet.

At least Michelle got to grow up wearing shorts/pants. It may not be a big deal as an adult woman to wear skirts every day, but a little girl needs the freedom to run and climb and sit in the sandbox without worrying about her skirt riding up all the time! It's not fair! Those girls get no childhood.

Randi Warhol said...

ATI= Advanced Training Institute

I was shocked at what was considered the ATI. In my mind, I thought they would further their home schooling with labs and art studios, etc. Instead, it was a camp, basically. Yes, it was said that it was more of a "character builder" thing, but where does anyone get to call what the Duggars do every year an Advanced Training Institute?!

As for the girls' activities: I didn't see much of a difference from what they do at home vs. what they did for a week at the "institute".

BTW: has anyone noticed that many times you don't see actual pajamas on the boys? Many time I've seen them wear their clothes to bed. You can see someone is wear his khaki pants to bed.

totallyhonest said...

Josh and Anna put a bunch of stuff about the ATI Conference on their website, along with links for more stuff about it. The episode apparently wasn't a fair representation of what goes on there...(haha)

http://ja20.com/ati2009.html

Anonymous said...

Thanks Harriet, I thought I'd seen most of the episodes but I didn't remember bonine. I do remember the little airplane ride where JB got off with handsful of barf bags. Ick.

totallyhonest said...

woah...so now that I am all interested (thanks to Josh and Anna's website), I went to the ATI website and read their application for their program. Everyone should go read it. It basically asks parents if they are prepared to brainwash their children.

Anonymous said...

Were they really only gone for a week?

642 pairs of underwear = 5 pairs per person per day (assuming youngest 2 in diapers

240 hot dogs and 100 hamburgers = 2 hot dogs and 1 hamburger per per person, per day

300 bottles of water (as seen during the packing scene)....have these people never seen a tap? Free water, and no waste. You'd think Jim Bob would be all over it since it is free.

The Real Susie said...

So.... the ATI conference is about religion mostly ... I thought it was about homeschooling?? It must just be about THEIR homeschooling? There are probably conferences similar to that, that aren't religion based? I didn't see anything on Josh's website that was actually about school. I guess I misunderstood that somehow. Looks like they had fun, though.

Anonymous said...

Josh and Anna said they met at the concession stand at the ATI conference. As Josh dorkily blabbed, "You are what you eat!" He just needs to stop talking and step out of the spotlight.

I guess if the girls did get a chance to do the rock climbing wall, they would definitley have to break out the black leggings.

I found the ALERT cadets to be extremely alarming. Jim Bob can sugarcoat it all he wants to, but ALERT is nothing like the Boy Scouts. Just because you say it over and over doesn't make it so.

I noticed the kids sleeping in their clothes also.

Jim S said...

There's been so much back and forth over time about John David's intelligence, but the wedding episode proved that the kid at least has a snarky sense of humor. I think he just likes to stay in the background and go about his business.

Otherwise, one of the duller episodes. So much prep, so little payoff.

Anonymous said...

So much prep, so little payoff? To quote another viewer. If you want drama and antics, tune into the terrible Kate and Jon as it runs. I prefer a family episode while not as dramatic or exciting does show what they do as a family while traveling to a home schooling venue. The comments I read here are indeed a diversity of thought.

leahsmoma said...

Speakin of the Bates Family, does anyone know whay the Duggars are still in TN? We saw them in Pigeon Forge the first of May and Josh said they were goin to the Bates to help them with a remodel job when they left Pigeon Forge. Then on Monday when Josh & Anna were on the today show the rest of the Duggars were still in Tn at the Bates home. Just wondering. Anyways we met Jim Bob & Michelle and my little girl rode some of the rides with the Duggar kids and she was soooo excited. Michelle gave Leah one of their pics and she keeps it in her Bible. Leah said meetin them was better than meetin Dolly.

Anonymous said...

John David is probably the brightest one of the bunch, realizing it sucks to be a Duggar and distancing himself emotionally from it.
Josh was there because he is a legal adult and therefore being cut his own paycheck. JD and Jana too, but until they escape or are indtured into marriage theirs must have to go into the family coffers.

Willow #1 said...

To Anonymous 6/18/2009 at 5:29 p.m.: I am really surprised at your comments about J&A and JD and Jana going to the conference to get paid. Do you know this for sure? Do all the kids get paid only on the episodes where their face is actually shown? or just the legal adult ones? Didn't know that. Do you think it might be possible the older ones might have gone becaue they just wanted to. If they have been going there for many years, they may have friends there and they may just enjoy it. My opinion is that its like a family vacation and they like it. Sometimes there is a good and/or simple reason for things.

mom of three and two said...

I don't think it's wierd the kids were sleeping in their clothes. I have five kids and occassionally when we have to go somewhere early in the morning, like leaving on a long trip, I will have the kids sleep in their clothes for the next day so we can just get them up and go.

Josh and Anna met at the concessions stand - they said that in this episode.

I've noticed that the little girls will have leggings under their skirts so they can still do things. Even

I think either Michelle is pregnant again or there is a bates/duggar hook-up.

I think that JD is fine. I heard JB comment one time that he is the hardest worker. I've noticed that. He just isn't like Josh and wants to be on the camera all the time.

I know from TLC's webisodes, the Duggars were going to Tennesee to help the Bates with their house. I don't know how long they would be there, but that explains the 342pairs of underwear.

mom of three and two said...

I couldn't remember her name, but Joy-Anna has also had leggings on under her skirt.

And I did like this show because it was vintage duggar like everyone says. The dentist and blinds episodes were pretty boring - especially because they've already been done on other shows.

totallyhonest said...

Plus....It isn't like Michelle and Jim Bob would have left John David and Jana home alone...they aren't married adults yet. They need chaperones...

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to comment really quickly:

My girls(I have 3 girls, 3 boys) also wear dresses and skirts 99% of the time. They wear bike shorts or leggings under their dresses so they can still play and climb trees, etc.
Most everyone we know that wears only dresses does this.
It's the modern equivalent of 'bloomers'.

Mrs P

totallyhonest said...

Mrs. P: that is great that you allow them to wear leggings to that they can still play. It is too bad the Duggar girls weren't given that opportunity during the ATI conference. Only the boys are given the chance for the rock wall and outdoor activities.

Anonymous said...

Note: It was 642 pairs of underwear.

Anonymous said...

Those long long skirts are preventative for most sports from bike riding, tree or rock wall climbing, to soccer, whether or not there are leggings underneath. They are simply so long that they are dangerous and could get caught in something. If the family insists on dresses or skirts, at least make them a bit shorter, with leggings, so that the girls can participate in more activities (unless of course, the goal is to have the girls participate in nothing except cooking, cleaning, laundry and childcare).

Poor girls. I feel so sorry for them.

Jim S said...

Anonymous--

I simply meant that so much time was devoted to the packing, the tire, the restaurant that we got a little shortchanged on the actual conference. If anything, the episode needed to be longer.

Anonymous said...

OH MY GOSH I just looked at Bill Gothard's list of essential character qualities... I didn't know that PUNCTUALITY is on there! And punctuality is defined by "showing high esteem for other people and their time." I don't believe Josh exhibited punctuality when he decided the Dr. could wait!

Anonymous said...

re the ATI conference

When they were still in the bus Michelle said they chose this particular homeschool curriculum because there was an emphasis on character building.

Not that I disagree with that but I sure built a lot of character when I had to study for geometry.

Surely having the kids know how to read like an adult is as important as being on time.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

"Anonymous has left a new comment on the post "June 16 Big Family in Big Sandy":

re the ATI conference

When they were still in the bus Michelle said they chose this particular homeschool curriculum because there was an emphasis on character building.

Not that I disagree with that but I sure built a lot of character when I had to study for geometry.

Surely having the kids know how to read like an adult is as important as being on time. "

Just because this family choose a curriculum with a lot of character studies does not mean they do not teach the academics. You can have both, one does not void the other.

Anonymous said...

I doubt Gothard (who is a misongynist in his own right) meant that character building would include selling your soul and privacy to a TV station so that your family gets money and goods.

Character building is more than forcing your daughters to wear chastity rings, clean, cook and raise their mother's children. It is more than denying your children a true education, which includes real literature (not fluffy Christian purity novels), history, math and science. It is allowing your children to build a strong sense of self so that they can go out in the world as strong people and pursue their dreams.

People of strong character should be able to interact with others in the world, to have learned to make good decisions, treat others with respect and kindness, contribute to the good of the world.

Instead, we have the Duggars, who are making money simply because they have an obscenely large family. Feeding bagels to animals is not a "good deed" that shows character development, nor is accepting new blinds, a generator, etc., so that your family can have its privacy compromised on national television.

Patrick said...

Anonymous 9:17 p.m. said: OH MY GOSH I just looked at Bill Gothard's list of essential character qualities... I didn't know that PUNCTUALITY is on there! And punctuality is defined by "showing high esteem for other people and their time." I don't believe Josh exhibited punctuality when he decided the Dr. could wait!
****************************************

Or when they kept an entire school waiting or when Jim Bob threw down the open umbrella in the storm or when they were late to the dentist or when......

Joanna said...

Yes, this episode should have been an hour.

Harriet said...

Very true, Patrick, and I've always said just because Bill Gothard said it doesn't mean the Duggars slavishly follow it. :) Intereting that it was actually a positive quality that proved the point.

Fascinating stuff said...

This was a home school conference, but all I heard was "character". It was all about character building, which is not the same as education.
I was looking at the elaborate paperwork for ALERT basic training. There are extensive, spiritual questionaires for potential cadets and their fathers*. With all the time devoted to character, I wasn't too surprised when I found a spelling error on the application.


*While they do mention a specific scholarship for sons of widows (not divorcees), there's no mention of who is supposed to fill out the father's forms if the father isn't available.

Watch Closely said...

Josh and Anna met at the concession stand at an ATI conference. Presumably, waiting in line gave them a chance to talk and decide to pray about each other.

Jim Bob says he doesn't like speaking in front of a crowd. That's a good reason to become a state senator.

Oh boy said...

If you go to http://ja20.com/ati2009.html, be sure to scroll down to the student sessions and courses. Notice how they are offered to students, girls, young men and children. No boys at ATI?
Then read the course descriptions compared with what the episode showed. I think the Commit program is the babysitting.

Anonymous said...

How could Josh have met Anna? Those kids aren't allowed to mingle like normal teenagers! It is so weird to think that they have never had a private conversation before they are married. If this marriage makes it, great, but it really is a good idea to know the person you are marrying before saying, 'I do'. Also, young marriages are apt to fail, and these are ones in which the couples actually did know each other before the nuptials.

Anonymous said...

Isn't character being able to see a woman and not think lustful thoughts? Or letting your children learn to make decesions on their own about books to read and music to listen to?

Does Anna yell "Nike" for Josh now?

Josephina said...

The things the Duggars do like look adoringly at the hubby as he speaks, never say anything derogatory but always phrase it in a positive manner, dressing modestly, and all seemed to be a somewhat small group cultural thing to me until last week. I knew my neighbor went to a moderately fundamentalist church. She wears pants but never exposes her collarbone and doesn't wear shorts outside the house. They have members at their church who only wear long dresses, but no one pays attention at their church she has said. Then Friday she told me about a nearby church that people will sometimes switch back and forth with her church that is all Duggar-like it seems. Everyone on staff at the church is male. All the women wear below the knee dresses. Sunday school classes are separated boy/girl beginning in first grade. Anyway, there are classes taught on how to be a proper wife and mother and they teach the exact Duggarlike look and how to speak to one's spouse and all those behaviors and attitudes that we've talked about. It was quite a shock being only about three miles from my house in a large US city. It isn't a small place either. They probably have 2,000 to 3,000 members. I wonder if Michelle went to classes early in their marriage either somewhere like ATI, a seminar held at their church, or what? It kind of makes me want to sneak into one of the classes to see what books they're using if they have textbooks for how to be proper Duggar clone.

maria said...

Does Anna yell "Nike" for Josh now?

-------------------------

I must be missing something. I've heard this comment before. What does this MEAN??????????? Why would you yell "Niki" for ANYONE?????

Admirer said...

Someone mentioned the Duggars stopping at the Bates' on the way home from ATI to help with a remodel......

I was on a different blog (similar family beliefs) and they went to help a family with a remodel. That family happened to be the Bates! And of the several photos they showed, only one Duggar was there....John. I thought Erin - the piano player - was the oldest, but I think now I'm wrong, that there is an older Bates daughter. if we're all so sure John Duggar is going to court and/or marry a Bates girl, I wonder which one it will be? I hope Jana can find someone....

I'm sure Jim Bob and Michelle WANT their kids to find like-minded spouses, so it makes sense that they would see ATI as (among other things) a way for them to meet someone they would eventually be interested in. But it's not a 'matchmaker' gathering, so no wonder JB would be flustered or embarrassed by the question. On the other hand, I do agree that it did not appear that there would be much, if any opportunity at ATI for boys and girls to meet each other.

Emiku said...

maria said...

Does Anna yell "Nike" for Josh now?

-------------------------

I must be missing something. I've heard this comment before. What does this MEAN??????????? Why would you yell "Niki" for ANYONE?????



Whenever the Duggar's are out in a public place, if they walk past someone who's dressed in a way they find inappropriate (like a woman in a low cut shirt or miniskirt) someone will say the codeword "nike" and the boys all advert their gaze and look at the ground or something when they pass by the person. They do it because they find immodest clothes offensive and supposedly it will make the men lustful of something. LOL

I agree with a previous commenter who said "Isn't character being able to see a woman and not think lustful thoughts?"
I find it rather insulting that only the boys have to look away, and that they act like the can't control themselves. What if the girls passed by some hunk in tight jeans? =p Wonder if the "nike" rule applies to them too?

maria said...

Emiku, thank you for explaining that to me. Oh my goodness, it sounds SO ridiculous, though. So I guess they believe that men are just not able to control themselves and must look away? You would think they would just teach their boys that it is wrong to have immodest thoughts about women, or something along those lines. Having them look away makes them seem like animals with no control. Again, how utterly ridiculous.

Momma said...

The Duggars do not only use the ATI curriculum, they also use Switched on Schoolhouse for grades 3 and up and who knows what else for the lower grades. The ATI stuff does not cover all subjects, it is supplimental. SOS is a good curriculum that is by no means going to turn out barely literate students who are unable to add or think critically.

Not a Duggar Fan said...

Admirer said: I'm sure Jim Bob and Michelle WANT their kids to find like-minded spouses, so it makes sense that they would see ATI as (among other things) a way for them to meet someone they would eventually be interested in. But it's not a 'matchmaker' gathering,

********************************************

I DO think it's a matchmaker gathering. When you have no other interaction with boys, other than your brothers, where are you supposed to meet guys? The same applies to Jim Bob and Michelle....where else are they able to meet nice young men that might be possibilities for their daughters? There aren't enough cameramen and sound guys to go around! ATI is a fundie mixer!

nccalgal said...

I'm sure the "nike" thing is based on the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said if a man even thinks lustful thoughts he has committed adultery in his heart. Jesus was just pointing out that it was impossible for mankind to save himself by obeying the "law", but legalists use that verse and many others out of context to justify their long lists of dos and don'ts.

Anonymous said...

What if one of the Duggar kids meets the-one-God-has-chosen/made- for-them and they happen to be of the same gender? Or they don't want to marry? What then?

How soul crushing would it be to meet the person or find a passion for soem kind of work that makes your soul sing and all the while, everything you've known and been taught up to that time, condemns your thoughts and feelings?

Anonymous said...

I suspect true critical thinking skills are NOT part of the "character building" curriculum (indoctrination) taught by ATI. I doubt that commentary and argument are considered virtues, but rather, disobedience or signs of a loss of "self control".

Otherwise, the sham of "traditional values" - male dominance/female submission - would crumble.

Forsythia said...

What if one of the Duggar kids meets the-one-God-has-chosen/made- for-them and they happen to be of the same gender?

That cannot happen, God is not the author of sin, so God would not choose a person of the same sex as a soul mate.

Anonymous said...

Two Men walking along see a prostitute wearing almost nothing One looks away and One does not which man did the right thing?

Both The Man who looked away recognized the dignity of his sister and not wishing to look upon her lustfully did not look at all.

The man who did not avert his gaze saw his sister as a beautiful woman created by God He was not given to lust and would therefore not disrespect her dignity.

If the Duggar men/Boys are unsure if they will be lustful or not they are being more respectful to the women they encounter by not looking.

Anonymous said...

I'M still stuck on the whole character thing. My husband is a boob man. He'll make comments about someone's "girls" to me...such as did you see her girls? I would think he's sick if he didn't. It doesn't offend me. My husband is a wonderful
man, a strong Christian. For me that shows character because he sees it and goes on. He doesn't have a urge to rape a woman because he has seen a glimpse of her girls. That's self control. That is character.

Of course I get to make comments about men too. Hubby knows that we are going to see whatever Matthew McCounghy movie is showing.

How are the kids learning self control? Critical thinking? How will they learn how to choose right from wrong if they are not given choices?

Anonymous said...

Jim Bob had better get busy matchmaking for the older girls. They are starting to look like spinsters, still living at home, cleaning and cooking and raising their siblings. Time for them to get out in the world. Oh, that's right...Jim Bob won't let them out in the world, so he had better find them a courtship, and soon.

Emiku said...

Anonymous said...
Jim Bob had better get busy matchmaking for the older girls. They are starting to look like spinsters, still living at home, cleaning and cooking and raising their siblings.


Are you kidding me? Jana, the oldest girl, only just turned 19. She could hardly be called a "spinster" at that age! I'm 24, single, & live at home. So do all of my girl friends. Just because Jana chooses to help with the family instead of getting a job outside the house does not make her a "spinster".

Anonymous said...

A woman can be 35 years old and unmarried and not a "spinster", if she is busy, working, socializing with friends (of both sexes), living life to the fullest.

A 19 year old should be in college or working (even if living at home), learning, growing, readying to find her place in the world. She should not be doing all the laundry or cooking for 20 people, or raising her mother's children as her only activities. Where is the learning, the joy of being with friends, of experiencing new things?

Since the Duggar girls are allowed to do nothing but cook, clean and raise children, Jim Bob had better get them married off soon. Oh, but wait, if they leave home and marry, he and Michelle will have to raise the brood themselves. Guess the girls will be at home awhile longer, as the maids that they are.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said: What if one of the Duggar kids meets the-one-God-has-chosen/made- for-them and they happen to be of the same gender?

Forsythia responded: That cannot happen, God is not the author of sin, so God would not choose a person of the same sex as a soul mate.
************************

I'm the niece of two male, civil rights lawyers who have been together for 52 years. They are the best example of love, commitment, service and happiness a person could ask for. They are my testament to God's wisdom and grace.

Anonymous said...

I hope Erin Bates is not being courted by John David. She is too smart and mature for him, he seems strange now the olders bates boy and oldest girl seem I better match I think Jana is her name

msrylee said...

It would be highly unlikely that one of the Duggar children would choose a member of the same sex as his/her life partner. These children experience very limited exposure to "out-side" people. Also, JB and Michelle would do everything in their power to destroy such a relationship.

Having said this, I wonder if one of the kids got involved in a same-sex relationship, would he/she allow their parents to break it up? Most of them probably would follow the family rules, but perhaps one or two might not.

Anonymous said...

There isn't any way that a Duggar would get involved in a same-sex relationship! They aren't even allowed out of the cocoon/compound, except on Duggarly religiously sanctioned activities. Where would they even meet someone of the opposite sex, much less same sex? They aren't allowed to be alone with anyone outside of the family, so there are no normally developing friendships or relationships.

There is no chance that these brainwashed kids will go against their parents' arcane and closeminded views. They are so cloistered and believe exactly as their parents do (in "immodesty, creationism, etc). I think Jim Bob and Michelle are safe from the possibility of having a gay child or any one of them that challenges their upbringing.

Anonymous said...

Was anyone paying attention when John David said he was planning on starting his own tow trucking business?

Josh had to be financially stable before he could marry Anna.

Maybe thats what John David is trying to accomplish before he begins to courting Erin Bates?

Jinger Rocks! said...

ANONYMOUS 6/23, 12:28 said:
What if one of the Duggar kids meets the-one-God-has-chosen/made- for-them and they happen to be of the same gender?

FORSYTHIA said:
That cannot happen, God is not the author of sin, so God would not choose a person of the same sex as a soul mate.
_______________________________

God also never said there are soul mates. And that includes in the Bible.

KB said...

I've wondered over the issue of the girls and boys being able to interact with each other on their own. Take Anna and Josh, the fact that they never spent time or talked alone until after they were married. I understood the importance of chaperone's during their cross-country trip prior to their marriage. But otherwise I have issues with it. These parents claim to be raising their children with certain values, which is great, but it seems as if they don't trust how they've raised them or to follow what the children themselves claim to believe. Why have a chaperone at all times? Do they not trust Anna and Josh to control themselves? Isn't that something Josh himself said during the wedding rehearsal; the importance of practicing restraint and self-control. It seems like it's something they teach their children yet they don't trust that teaching or their children to follow that. Isn't practicing restraint something we all teach our children as well as not being able to get or have everything that you want. Don't we try to teach our children the difference between lust and love in terms of making informed decisions before acting.

I don't know, just throwing it out there. Some of their words and actions are contradictory. I wonder too if any of the kids think that it's hypocritical of their parents and what their childhoods were like in comparison to their own? Perhaps not, considering how they were raised.

As for JD, I think he's quite bright. He's got a quick wit when he chooses to talk. He doesn't come across as someone very impressed by or or interested in the cameras, certainly opposite in personality to Josh. It certainly doesn't signify lack of intelligence. Josh comes off as the type of guy who manicures his nails, JD scrubs his nails to remove the dirt, oil and grease because he's been busy out working. The family often credits him as being able to do anything with machines. He's someone clearly with a mechanical/engineering mind and there's a certain personality that often goes with that. But considering his closeness in age to josh, it's clear josh is the star and like to perform whereas JD is far more at ease with taking the back seat and going with the flow.

Anonymous said...

Does no one else think that it is so strange that people are all for *hypothetical* multiple Duggar-Bates matches? After one marriage all other Duggar siblings would become a brother of sister in law to a Bates and vice versa. I have never heard of a marriage between a brother and sister in law.

Anonymous said...

When Josh and Anna were going out on their "chaperoned" dates, does anyone know who the chaperons were? Were they always supervised by parents, or could they go out with their siblings serving as "chaperons"?
Also, did anyone else read John and Anna's story of their courtship on their website?

MarylandMomOf3 said...

"Does no one else think that it is so strange that people are all for *hypothetical* multiple Duggar-Bates matches? After one marriage all other Duggar siblings would become a brother of sister in law to a Bates and vice versa. I have never heard of a marriage between a brother and sister in law."

My DH's dad's sister Mary married DH's mom's brother Harvey. It's not that odd, if you think about it- they were probably seeing each other a lot at family functions and wedding planning stuff, and started dating. I wouldn't think it was odd if there were several Duggar/Bates matches- the two families are obviously close and spend a lot of time together.

Anonymous said...

Maryland Momof3 said:
"Does no one else think that it is so strange that people are all for *hypothetical* multiple Duggar-Bates matches? After one marriage all other Duggar siblings would become a brother of sister in law to a Bates and vice versa. I have never heard of a marriage between a brother and sister in law."

My DH's dad's sister Mary married DH's mom's brother Harvey. It's not that odd, if you think about it- they were probably seeing each other a lot at family functions and wedding planning stuff, and started dating. I wouldn't think it was odd if there were several Duggar/Bates matches- the two families are obviously close and spend a lot of time together.



It's funny that you mentioned that. I have plenty of family members who have paired up in this way and so many others find this so strange.You would be surprised how many adult people don't understand family relationships.I have many cousins who have married people from the other side of my family and have one friend who finds this so wrong. She is just too simple to understand that just because they are both related to me doesn't mean they are related to one another.Also relation by marriage is definitely not the same as relation by blood.So many adults don't get the concept of "in-laws"

Mandy said...

I apologize if someone already mentioned this since I haven't had time to read through all of the comments but...I definitely feel like there has been something breweing between the Bates and the Duggars as far as relationships go. I don't think they'll advertise any of their courtships until they get to the engagement stage, just like with Josh's relationship.

I did stumble accross this blog entry (http://www.staddonfamily.com/2009/06/03/meet-the-bates-family/) as I was looking into more information about the Bates. I know the Duggars visited the Bates since tey were there when they found out the sex of Josh and Anna's baby but in the pictuers on this site John David is the only one there. Maybe he was purely there because of his construction knowledge but it does seem a bit abnormal. Perhaps he was visiting someone special?

And for the record, I think it's great that TLC does this show.

JenTru said...

Not a Duggar Fan said...

What in the world is going on that they must take that much underwear? And does this mean that they are driving back home with 642 pairs of DIRTY UNDERWEAR???!!! Does Bill Gothard send the ALERT cadets from campsite to campsite to do an undie check?

******************************

Thank you for this, it made me spit pop out onto the computer desk though! LOL.

It also bothered me that the boys were rock climbing and the girls were doing "indoor" activities. Perhaps they had the girls do the outdoor stuff separately, but from what I have seen of the Duggars I kind of doubt it.

JenTru said...

SJ said...
The girls can't do the rock wall/outdoor activities because they have to wear skirts. Of course they don't have a choice! That would be immodest! You can't strap a harness around an ankle length denim skirt.

*****************

While I disagree with them having to wear the long skirts all the time, they did let (let-that is sad) Jana (and maybe one of the other older girls?) wear pants under their skirts for the skydiving episode. And of course there are the lovely "bathing suits" like the one Anna wore when they went parasailing on their honeymoon.

Anonymous said...

The bathing suit in the honeymoon episode was clearly a product placement advertisement. I, for one, would like to know what they get paid for all this -- are there separate accounts for what all the children earn?

Anonymous said...

I totally agree. The Duggar girls should feel comfortable talking about dating or in this case courtship with it being a big issue. I still think the parents shouldn't push marriage so much. Michelle and Jim Bob never come out right and say it but watching episodes you hear on many occasions Michelle mention thats where one of her kids could meet there future spouse. I think those kids are my age. Education should be pushed way more in that family not getting married.

Anonymous said...

JenTru said...

"While I disagree with them having to wear the long skirts all the time, they did let (let-that is sad) Jana (and maybe one of the other older girls?) wear pants under their skirts for the skydiving episode. And of course there are the lovely "bathing suits" like the one Anna wore when they went parasailing on their honeymoon."

7/07/2009 7:05 PM

In the Duggars' book, JB and Michelle state that they taught their daughters to dress modestly, but that as they've gotten older, the girls have chosen to dress even more modestly than their parents were requiring of them. Michelle said they dress the way they want to. It sounds like there isn't any "making" or "letting" involved when it comes to pants vs. skirts, or swimsuits, for the Duggar girls. They dress themselves.