Please use this for Duggar sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, or personal stories. Thank you!
Happy New Year to all. May 2011 bring happiness and joy to all our lives.
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16. Please refrain from beating the dead horses such as Josh's years ago expressed interest in law school. If the Duggars have moved on, so should we.
2. No online petitions.
3. Do not be rude about the children or call them names. Commenting on the behaviour that we have seen is acceptable, but no name calling.
4. Do not refer to calling CPS or use the term child abuse unless we something that actually is abusive.
5. Watch profanity.
6. Don't tell the moderators how to run the blog.
7. Be careful about boards on boards and please don't discuss or provide links to other Duggar boards.
8. No diagnosing mental/medical conditions.
9. No posting addresses.
10. Along with not being rude don't tell other people how to think, act, or behave - don't try to tell other people what to do or not do.
11. No using the kids' names or moderators' as your screen name.
12. Comments including "I'm sure you won't print this" will never be printed.
13. No unsolicited recaps. We are not recapping the Duggar shows.
14. The administrators are not able to verify the identity of people who comment here. Believe what you choose to believe.
15. Please use proper grammar, spelling, capitalizations and punctuations in your comments. No instant message type speaking.
16. Please refrain from beating the dead horses such as Josh's years ago expressed interest in law school. If the Duggars have moved on, so should we.
267 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 267 of 267Time for a friendly reminder to reel in the off topic. If you're arguing with a fellow reader, if it's a story about your childhood, if it's all about your town, cousins, children, dog, etc, please tell someone else. Thank you.
I may be wrong, but TLC had a preview of what was coming next week. The Duggars will be back. The statement with which I was floored was when Jim Bob said something to the effect that it is really scary to think that Michelle could become pregnant again. Would somebody please tell that man what exactly is causing the pregnancy. Someone show him a dictionary with the word "abstinence" and what it means. Michelle is constantly telling us that they are teaching the children "self control". Maybe she could get a rein on her husband and his libido during fertile times.
They prefer that their children remain chaste prior to marriage, yet Jim Bob goes around like a rutting stallion, constantly kissing and mugging for the cameras. Enough, already
Anonymous said:
You honestly cant say what you would do if offered a show, unless it was actually offered to you.
What if they asked you to do a 5 episode show, and your take in after taxes would be a million bucks.
You don't think you would sit down and talk about it with your family. I would do it in a heart beat, to pay off all my college, house and car loans. Then I could set up that money in accounts for my kids colleges and on and on.
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Actually, I do know what I would say if offered a million $ to do five episodes of a reality tv show -- there's the door, don't let the screen hit you on your way out.
My child gets embarrassed if I tell his own grandmother a cute story about him! I can only imagine how he would absolutely hate having a camera in his face all the time, recording things he said or did that he wouldn't want his friends to see, much less strangers. I feel exactly the same way.
Money is not the be all and end all in my decision making process. There are many things more valuable and important than money. Sadly, I think Mr. Duggar has forgotten that, if he ever truly believed it in the first place.
I struggle financially and have to do without many things. Yet I am overall very content with my life and the home I provide for my son. So I do know that I would absolutely turn down any offer to put our lives out on tv as "entertainment" for the masses. It's truly our life, and we will live it in private, and make do without selling it to the highest bidder.
Anonymous said...
"Would somebody please tell that man what exactly is causing the pregnancy. Someone show him a dictionary with the word "abstinence" and what it means. Michelle is constantly telling us that they are teaching the children "self control". Maybe she could get a rein on her husband and his libido during fertile times."
But that's just it...they don't believe they have to take measures to avoid pregnancy, and it seems that in their definition abstinence and self control are measures designed to prevent pregnancy. In their way of thinking, it is all God's will. If they are intimate during a fertile time, then God will either allow the pregnancy to occur or God will not. They portray their beliefs to be that they, as humans, have absolutely no control over their reproduction so it makes no sense to them to abstain because regardless of their participation, or lack thereof, a pregnancy WILL occur if it is so willed by their God. If they are too old, or Michelle's body is too worn out, is not a factor they feel they need to consider. That is decided by God. It does make those of us who don't subscribe to the same beliefs wonder how they justify their God giving them intelligence, when it appears they aren't expected to use it.
Over the last several years much has surfaced about this movement and not just one isolated incident. What faith requires its followers to make possibly dangerous convictions? And if the Duggars aren't QF why is there an article on them at the main site?
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One does not have to be a member of a group, organization, or movement in order to appreciate an aspect of that group, or find truth in some of their teachings. Nor does one have to agree with every single point of belief in order to appreciate one point of belief.
Furthermore, there is no "membership" in QF. There are bad people who call themselves that, and do bad things. There are good people who call themselves that, and raise their families with love and care.
The Duggars could be any one of huge variety of types of families who hold that one belief. Even calling themselves QF would mean nothing more than that they hold that particular belief and are connected with other families on that point of belief.
Frankly I'd be much more concerned about the Gothard/ATI thing, and that is the primary engine behind the abuses that I've read of, not "quiverfull". Not all Gothardites are QF, and many QF people are anti-Gothard, self included. The two are simply not synonymous.
"But that's just it...they don't believe they have to take measures to avoid pregnancy, and it seems that in their definition abstinence and self control are measures designed to prevent pregnancy. In their way of thinking, it is all God's will. If they are intimate during a fertile time, then God will either allow the pregnancy to occur or God will not. They portray their beliefs to be that they, as humans, have absolutely no control over their reproduction so it makes no sense to them to abstain because regardless of their participation, or lack thereof, a pregnancy WILL occur if it is so willed by their God. If they are too old, or Michelle's body is too worn out, is not a factor they feel they need to consider. That is decided by God. It does make those of us who don't subscribe to the same beliefs wonder how they justify their God giving them intelligence, when it appears they aren't expected to use it."
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Agreed and well said!!
Using this logic, why seek any medical assistance ever? Just one example: if diabetic, why take prescribed insulin, because, since everything is totally under god's control, only things that god wills will happen to your body, with or without insulin.
IMO there are many lapses in logic in the Duggar belief system.
Using this logic, why seek any medical assistance ever? Just one example: if diabetic, why take prescribed insulin, because, since everything is totally under god's control, only things that god wills will happen to your body, with or without insulin.
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The Duggars definitely don't apply this logic to the rest of their life. They believe that children are a "gift" and that to use birth control or any method of preventing a child from being born is basically rude and self-serving, not accepting of this "glorious gift." So that's why they do it. Because children are a gift, as said in the Bible, and you shouldn't do anything to prevent a gift from coming. I don't think it's so much that they think it's God's WILL, but that it's God's GIFT. That's the mentality they've adopted for their children, and it's a very spiritual thing and I don't think it would be easy to talk someone into or out of that line of thinking.
Illness and other things are not "gifts" and since these things are more in the "control" of the individual, they have to participate. Such as Josie's health. They didn't just say "Oh well God will make her better" - they participated in her health by bringing her to people who could help her. They also obviously work and participate in the community, and participate in community service, not just expecting God to "fix things" for them.
That's not to say there aren't Christians who rely on God for everything health related. Christian Scientists are known for their prayerful ways when it comes to health, and a number of diabetic children have died because of this (I am a type 1 diabetic myself so I can remember being horrified to find that out).
"Using this logic, why seek any medical assistance ever? Just one example: if diabetic, why take prescribed insulin, because, since everything is totally under god's control, only things that god wills will happen to your body, with or without insulin.
IMO there are many lapses in logic in the Duggar belief system."
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The insulin analogy is also applicable to the situation the Duggars faced with Josie. In their belief system, if it was God's will for them to conceive a child at Michelle's age, then logically, it would have also been its will for the baby to be born prematurely. And if it was their God's will for the premature birth, then was it also its will to have medical intervention? Also, wouldn't an almighty deity also be able to overcome obstacles, like man-made birth control, if it, in fact, wanted someone to become pregnant?
I'm not trying to start a religious debate, because I support the right of everyone to worship however he or she deems appropriate (as long as it doesn't harm others). My point is that the Duggars seem to conveniently chose what they claim to be controlled by God, and that leaves them open to scrutiny of the beliefs they profess, especially when there appears to be contradictions in what they say and what they do.
Sincere question about the Duggar belief system: If God 'gifts' children to deserving couples, and if using abstinence to prevent pregnancy is considered rude/ungrateful as if conception falls under basic social gifting etiquette, then is actively SEEKING pregnancy considered rude because it is contrary to etiquette in that it is asking a benefactor for a gift, rather than merely waiting and hoping the benefactor provides the gift one hopes for?
We have questions about why some comments were removed. As I've stated before, if an item turns into an argument and not a discussion, the entire subject will be removed. The readers may not always see the resulting argument as it will hopefully be caught in the queue before very many comments are published.
I have been re-watching Season 2 on Netflix and was curious if anyone knows what the R-rated movie was that Josh, Anna, and their chaperones saw in one of the courtship episodes.
I have been re-watching Season 2 on Netflix and was curious if anyone knows what the R-rated movie was that Josh, Anna, and their chaperones saw in one of the courtship episodes.
GOOD QUESTION..... i don't know either, I am suprised that even go to movies. i wonder also, someone should ask them.
when I go to see my family, if i ever see them out again. I will ask.! lol
Still grapling with the 'logic' of the Duggar beliefs here, so please bear with me.
First, let me state that as a medical professional in OB, I do NOT agree with the Duggar claim that it was their use of birth control that caused their spontaneous abortion (miscarriage).
That said, I have to wonder, and I hope someone can explain using Duggar 'logic', wouldn't god know the Duggars were using birth control in that interim? And, if so, why would god choose to send them the gift of conception, knowing M&JBD were using birth control and, per Duggar logic, this pregnancy would,therefore, be destined to miscarry?
I'm unable to make sense of this thinking. Can someone help me understand?
While Jim Bob and Michelle continue with "hit and miss" breeding practices, it would be constructive for them to take a step back and remember this time last year. Remember that precious little preemie with tubes, IV's, etc., enclosed in a little bubble. I am sure that little girl will have scars for the rest of her life. Why would they risk having another little life suffer the same consequence of their irresponsible actions.
There are a lot of deserving couples who are not able to procreate for one reason or another. I am sure that God loves them just as much as her loves Jim Bob and Michelle.
It appears that Monday at 10:30 is the "official" new time slot. My DVR is picking up that date/time for the second episode.
I still find this a bit ironic, given their "wholesome family" image. I hope that means the activities will remain geared a little more towards adults and older teens rather than riding mini trains, teacups and cheesy parade floats.
"Can you show me what episode they denied being part of the quiverfull movement?"
Can't show you the actual show, but I'm generally on the pro-Duggar side and I do remember them saying they are not Quiverfull, or not part of the Quiverfull movement. IIRC it was on one of the question-and-answer episodes.
Beyond that, I like Cappuchino Life's explanation.
"I'm just wondering, since the next season is set to air on the 24th at 10.30, does that mean that the show has moved to that time slot for future episodes?"
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According to TLC's weekly schedule the Duggars Season 5 is scheduled for 10 and 10:30 E/P time on Jan 31 so it does appears they have moved day and time.
"They aren't avoiding extensive religous analysis because they're being secretive or trying to cover up something. They've always been plain and up front about what they do and why they do it."
I don't know about that.
I think they avoid a lot of Gothard references because he and ATI are cultish and controversial and often abusive. But by always presenting those beliefs as just their own, and always in a positive light, they could be influencing others into a cultish, controversial, abusive group.
Personally I think they've distanced themselves from ATI in some areas (which is a good thing), and have been allowed to remain "in the fold" because of their fame and the good name they give the Movement. My hope is that they eventually see Gothard for what he is and publicly denounce him altogether... hopefully before they've influenced too many people down the wrong path.
"Illness and other things are not "gifts" and since these things are more in the "control" of the individual, they have to participate. Such as Josie's health."
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Many people, and several on this board, see this as the "Duggar logic" that is most difficult to digest. They have just as much, if not more, control over the conception of the "gift" as they do any illness that may occur. Many illnesses or diseases happen without any participation from the person who suffers. I understand in this context that "participation" is directed to the care, not the cause, but in Josie's case the Duggars' "participation" in creating the "gift" directly led to them having to "participate" in medical intervention.
There is an established correlation between a mother's age, and potential health risks to the fetus. The Duggars chose to ignore the medical statistics, and put this all in the hands of their god. If they trust that their god will overcome the health dangers of the pregnancy, wouldn't it stand to reason they should put that same trust in their god when the child is no longer in utero?
Note, I am not advocating for the abandonment of medical treatment in any way, shape or form. I'm just commenting on the logic used by the Duggars.
"That said, I have to wonder, and I hope someone can explain using Duggar 'logic', wouldn't god know the Duggars were using birth control in that interim? And, if so, why would god choose to send them the gift of conception, knowing M&JBD were using birth control and, per Duggar logic, this pregnancy would,therefore, be destined to miscarry?"
As a Christian, I would never claim to know why God does something.
I don't even think this comes down to what "Duggar logic" says. It's a fundamentally spiritual question of why God does what the does. I don't think I can answer that, or anyone with any real certainty, and neither can the Duggars.
People have free will and so even if God desires something to happen, people can go against God's will. However, if they do that, they might face consequences of their actions. God wanted the Duggars to have a child at that time, and since the Duggars were "selfish" because they used birth control, they "killed" their child. So this, to the Duggars, makes them say, "We never know when God might bless us with a child and if children are a gift, we shouldn't refuse children and we should risk killing our child because of birth control." It might be inaccurate science but it had a profound emotional impact and that's not something you can "logically" talk a family out of doing.
Again, I don't claim to understand the inner-workings of the Duggar minds and I certainly don't claim to understand that inner-workings of God's plan. And I certainly don't expect this to make sense to an atheist. It probably sounds very strange. But when you devote your life to pleasing something, the idea that you could be hurting that person or thing is very traumatic.
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"Why would they risk having another little life suffer the same consequence of their irresponsible actions."
Considering they only have had one issue with a birth out of 19 children, the odds are still technically in their favor. As Michelle has pointed out, she had pre-eclampsia with Jana and John David. But she went on to have many other healthy children. I'm not saying that I agree with her having so many children (for a variety of reasons, quality of life, etc.) but medically-speaking, she probably does not think there is an issue.
However, this is the longest the Michelle has gone with getting pregnant so I wonder if she will again at this point.
Religious Beliefs notwithstanding, there has to come a time where two reasonable mature and somewhat intelligent adults decide to use the other personal gifts given to them by their God. They were given common sense. They were given the ability to filter most things through to a reasonable conclusion.
If they don't do it for themselves, one would hope that they take a look around at the young children they have. I have read on this blog how they have raised good children. They have done that, but it has become obvious that the younger children (the middle boys and the little girls) are being raised differently then the older children. Their lives have been filmed from their birth. They do not have the attention from their parents. They are under the jurisdiction of older siblings and that is not fair.
Michelle would be putting her life at risk to endure another pregnancy. I am speaking from experience. If she wants to be a martyr for the cause, she should pause and think of the legacy she will be leaving her older daughters. They will give up their own dreams (marriage, children) and take over her responsibilities. That just does not seem fair!
I think the point everyone is making is that "Duggar logic" is not the same as "non-Duggar logic." The reasons they do or don't do things will not make sense to us because we have not been raised or taught the way they have. That doesn't make us wrong, it doesn't make them wrong. It's like trying to convince anyone who doesn't believe like you to change their behavior.
The Duggars might be more extreme in their actions, but at the end of the day, they are following their faith. Faith by its very nature rarely looks "logical" by people who don't share their faith or their experiences. Everything from religion to politics to parenting falls can fall under this disparity in logic.
I don't think anyone here will ever be able to fully explain why the Duggars do what they do, unless the crew starts asking some tough questions. And personally I don't think the Duggars have been asked these questions to the point where they've really formed a coherent argument. Most of the people they are with (Bates, Wilsons, ATI families) accept their lifestyle and don't ask questions like this, so it's possible the Duggars couldn't even present a suitable argument.
"I think the point everyone is making is that "Duggar logic" is not the same as "non-Duggar logic." The reasons they do or don't do things will not make sense to us because we have not been raised or taught the way they have"
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I'm one who was raised similarly to the Duggars in a religion that taught that 'to question was wrong - god calls us to take it on faith'. I struggled with this even in childhoold, as it seemed to me even as a child awfully convenient that every single time the beliefs were illogical, ye olde 'we lowly humans can't understand how God works/thinks'. It also bothered me that God was given all the credit for good things that happened in the world, yet never held responsible for allowing the bad. Tragic things like killer tornadoes were somehow out of God's hands or 'God was providing us the gift of a lesson as to how important loved ones are to us', while good things like "I was injured but not KILLED in my car wreck' were due to God's intervention.
I respect the concept that people are free to believe as they choose, so I mean no insult here.
I am not an atheist, but in my adult life, I gave myself permission to soul search and decide for myself which religious concepts I was taught were relevant in my life and which could be left in my childhood as incorrect for me personally.
It is too late for the parents, but I hope the 19 Duggar kids some day read, ponder, and determine for themselves how much of what they were taught religion-wise is something their minds and hearts can actually embrace without conflict between intelligence and spirituality.
Again, JMO, and absolutely not intended to offend. Merely food for thought re: the Duggar kids.
First, let me state that as a medical professional in OB, I do NOT agree with the Duggar claim that it was their use of birth control that caused their spontaneous abortion (miscarriage).
reply-
YOU are right on! I don't believe that either.
am curious to know what their excuse for anna's mis. was?
First, let me state that as a medical professional in OB, I do NOT agree with the Duggar claim that it was their use of birth control that caused their spontaneous abortion (miscarriage).
reply-
YOU are right on! I don't believe that either.
am curious to know what their excuse for anna's mis. was?"
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I wondered the exact same thing! What piece of 'logic' was used to explain Anna's miscarriage?
Conception by the will and gift of god, only to be miscarried? I'm guessing the usual "we can't begin to understand god's plan for us" is the pat, standard 'answer' for this one.
You don't want to think too deeply in Oz.
They have never said that *all* miscarriages are caused by birth control.
There is no need for them to "excuse" Anna's miscarriage. They believe that in *their* case, birth control may have been a causal factor in their miscarriage.
Mayo clinic mentions their concern, actually, as something that medical professionals were concerned about *in the past*. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/birth-control-pill/WO00098 Given that their miscarriage was 20+ years ago, it is not at all unbelieveable that they heard this possibility from a doctor.
Also, given that they believe life begins at conception, they consider failure to implant a miscarriage, which is why they have not done an about face on the Pill. The change in uterine lining with the possibility of failure to implant is listed in standard hormonal bc info. The possibility alone is I'm sure enough for the Duggars to continue their rejection of that specific type of contraception, religious beliefs about birth control as a whole aside.
Just a medical note: not all fertilized ova implant EVEN when NO oral contraceptives are used. Just something to keep in mind when pondering this Duggar issue.
I am fairly sure that does not make a difference to their thinking. Crap happens, in nature. Miscarriages happen at all stages of pregnancy. (And infertility happens too, since that's been an issue regarding their beliefs). The Duggar's objection is taking intentional, deliberate actions that cause or could potentially cause such things.
Abc news did an update on the Bates family and the Duggars were also mentioned in it.
Here is the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/the-bateses-and-their-18-children-23906649
Are the Duggars due to appear on The Today Show on Monday morning before their new episode airs?
"Just a medical note: not all fertilized ova implant EVEN when NO oral contraceptives are used. Just something to keep in mind when pondering this Duggar issue."
That is true, but not really applicable to the Duggars. There is a HUGE difference between something naturally occuring(beyond your control) and doing something that you KNOW has the potential to not allow an ova to implant. It is stated as one way the pill etc work. And as someone who believes life begins at conception, to purposely take something into my body to make my body reject that life is something I find wrong and not consistant with my beliefs, as Im sure the Duggars do as well.
"Just a medical note: not all fertilized ova implant EVEN when NO oral contraceptives are used. Just something to keep in mind when pondering this Duggar issue."
That is true, but not really applicable to the Duggars. There is a HUGE difference between something naturally occuring(beyond your control) and doing something that you KNOW has the potential to not allow an ova to implant. It is stated as one way the pill etc work. And as someone who believes life begins at conception, to purposely take something into my body to make my body reject that life is something I find wrong and not consistant with my beliefs, as Im sure the Duggars do as well.
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Understood. The question really is more about why, in Duggar logic, a god would allow a conception only to then allow it to become a miscarriage.
Just another piece of Duggar beliefs that makes no sense to me personally. To the Duggars, their own belief system, but also to the rest of us, our own. Respect to all.
Understood. The question really is more about why, in Duggar logic, a god would allow a conception only to then allow it to become a miscarriage.
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"Duggar Logic" involves the belief in eternal life after our temporal life here on earth.
A 3 week life and an 80 year life on earth, when compared with eternity, the difference is a lot less than when we compare them from our mortal, human perspective.
To say God's wisdom is beyond ours and his purposes sometimes do not make sense to us (being limited human beings) follows quite well with the Duggar's belief.
Obviously, it won't make sense to someone who starts with an altogether different premise, but their belief follows their premise perfectly logically.
Of course, then the question is, which premise is right? but I'm guessing this is not the place to duke that out. :p
http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/the-bateses-and-their-18-children-23906649
Above is the web address to a recent video of the Bates after they built onto their old home. As you can see it is quite like the Duggars now. It is 4000 square feet. The Duggars not only provided the means to increase their home but also provided a model as many of the things you see in this home are "Duggar" like such as the intercome system and the laundry room. The children too hae chosen to share their bedrooms with the various age ranges. The Bates have a nice video system in one can view the various rooms in the house and some parts of the outside. This family surely has been blessed by the Duggars in so many ways, not only as a model to get some very nice ideas from but also with the means to live in such a nice spacious home. You can see the Duggar's influence throughout the short video.
"You can see the Duggar's influence throughout the short video."
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Also obvious is the influence of TLC and their payments when buying families' privacy.
LOL I saw the video.... means no more drive by's for meeeeeeeeeee
(not that I did any more than drive by to begin with)
I loved the fact that even given the choice at older ages the older kids STILL wanted to be with the younger ones, and wanted bunk style rooms, instead of individual rooms.
I agree there are a lot of differences including the jail. However, the jail is a nook in which the kids play in and I believe that the Duggar's home too has some play nooks. I enjoy both homes but could not help see how some of the things are the same. There is no way the two houses would be identical being one was built out of two steal kits and the other was a make over.
When posters speak of the older girls wanting to share their bedroom with all their siblings, they are just parroting Michelle's version. I am sure the girls enjoy the company of the siblings close to their own age, but i would hazard a guess, they would prefer not to have all the younger girls and the babies in their bedrooms.
Why should a young teenager be responsible for a younger sibling waking up in the middle of the night, either sick or crying? I am very skeptical when Michelle or Jim Bob quote the wishes of their children. Isn't is convenient that their wishes are so in sync with what Michelle needs.
None of these girls will leave home while Michelle has so many little ones to look after. She couldn't handle half of them. As far as the College on Line is concerned, I am sure that would be convenient, but, of course, after their jurisdictions are looked after. When posters suggest that the older children could leave, they have years of indoctrination to overcome before that can happen. They may all look soo happy on the show, but their lives are very restricted and that is so unfair.
That red bus the Bates family drove in the video looked like a Duggar hand-me-down.
Wonder why, in Michelle Duggar logic, it was fine for her to leave home to pursue her own life at 17-18 years of age, yet she seems to discourage her daughters from pursuing their own lives at this age? Do as I say, not as I do?
When posters speak of the older girls wanting to share their bedroom with all their siblings, they are just parroting Michelle's version.
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I was quoting Gil and Kelly bates. Michekella Bates (can't spell it but that's how it sounds) and the other oldest daughters were all doing one of the interviews, though Michekella was the only one talking, none looked liked they disagreed with her. As for toting the "party line" quite a few of those Bates children have no problems giving their opinion if they do NOT like something. (Any one remember one of the Bates girls giving the Duggar girls grief about the painting of the bathroom door and how ugly it was going to be?)
When the Bates where building the new addition the kids (older than the Duggars when they were given the choice) begged to almost the point of crying to stay together.
It's on the video link Suzanne posted a day or so ago.
My point was that even given the choice even the "college age children" wanted to share their rooms with the younger siblings.
Wonder why, in Michelle Duggar logic, it was fine for her to leave home to pursue her own life at 17-18 years of age, yet she seems to discourage her daughters from pursuing their own lives at this age? Do as I say, not as I do?
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I would surely hope so, since Michelle left at 17 only to marry JimBob.
Her oldest girls on the other hand....
1) one of them is following a doula around deciding if that is what she wants to be.
2) 2 of them are volunteer firepersons (lol couldn't call them firemen) and on the medical team as well.
3) One of them is learning she likes to organize things and boss people around (Jinger is harder on the younger kids than Michelle is)
4) The older ones have all been out of country doing missions work.
5) Michelle does not like heights and Jinger wanted to go sky diving for her birthday.
6) Several of the older children are attending college classes (all be it on-line)
7) According to reports we have heard at least one of the girls likes to shoot as well. <<< can't back that one up as a fact till we see the new episode so I said it was based on reports.
So yeah I'm quite happy if the girls continue to do as Michelle says and not as she did. Something we seem to be forgetting is that at her oldest daughters ages she was married and with Janna's age she was pregnant or had given birth to Josh. So far only Anna is following in Michelle's footsteps, with Josh's help ;)
I suppose it comes down to the fact that most of us like what we are most familiar with.
Every time I see those jam packed bedrooms at either the Duggars or the Bates homes, I for one and extraordinarily grateful that my parents only had 2 children, that I grew up with my own private room, and that I never had to vie with a dozen other voices for my parents' attention. This is how I was raised and how I intend to raise my children.
I bet that the Duggar and Bates children, never having known any different, are totally content sharing their bedrooms. I work with a girl who was one of 7 children, and she comments often that her studio apartment is so quite and lonely. I bet the Duggars would feel the same way if they moved out and headed out into the world alone.
Peace and quiet are things that I value. I am totally content in a silent room, no need to have the radio on in the background. Not everyone is like that, I would guess that the Duggars would like to have some music playing or a radio talk show (conservative, of course) if they were alone.
It's all about what we're used to. Neither way is right or wrong.
I wonder if the girls realize that other people think it is odd that they share rooms with toddlers. Or if they even care.
I would be more worried about Jana and Jill still living at home at age 30. I doubt the show will be on that long, so we may never know, but I could see it happening.
And with all the schooling of the young'uns and childcare, I doubt there is much time for on-line college anyway. Maybe a course here or there, but not so sure about even that.
The point is that Michelle had the freedom to leave her parents home and follow her own path (even if that was "only to" marry Jim bob). And by the way, Michelle was able to go to public highschool and work in a yogurt shop long before she wanted to marry Jim Bob, so clearly she had way more freedoms as a teenager.. How nice for her. The girls don't have that freedom. In fact, the girls don't even have the freedom to pick a guy to fall in love with during highschool and get married at 17 because, according to jinger, dating is "out of the picture". It's all based on a man that goes through Jim bob to ask permission to marry or court his daughter. That's not how it worked for Michelle, and I am sure she's eternally grateful that her own father had no hand in picking the man she dated and married. It makes me furious. It is not about protection. It's about control, control, control. Is it really the end of the world if your daughter kisses someone before marriage? No, I'm sorry, it's not.
I realize the quote regarding the girls sharing their bedrooms was from the M. Bates, but Michelle quoted the very same statement when her friend, the decorator, was helping out with the finishing touches for the bedrooms.
It is very obvious that Michelle's sleep is not going to be disturbed. I wonder how long it will be before Josie is also handed over. After all, Michelle's responsibility is breeding and she needs her rest.
"I suppose it comes down to the fact that most of us like what we are most familiar with.
Every time I see those jam packed bedrooms at either the Duggars or the Bates homes, I for one and extraordinarily grateful that my parents only had 2 children, that I grew up with my own private room, and that I never had to vie with a dozen other voices for my parents' attention. This is how I was raised and how I intend to raise my children.
I bet that the Duggar and Bates children, never having known any different, are totally content sharing their bedrooms. I work with a girl who was one of 7 children, and she comments often that her studio apartment is so quite and lonely. I bet the Duggars would feel the same way if they moved out and headed out into the world alone.
Peace and quiet are things that I value. I am totally content in a silent room, no need to have the radio on in the background. Not everyone is like that, I would guess that the Duggars would like to have some music playing or a radio talk show (conservative, of course) if they were alone.
It's all about what we're used to. Neither way is right or wrong."
I love your Comment, thats how I feel, that its all about how you are raised, and you dont know any different.
In todays age, kids just think that they deserve a room to themseleves. when it wasnt but 15 yrs ago, that kids didnt have their own rooms.
as someone who grew up with 2 brothers, and 20 cousins on both sides, we did have our rooms at our house, and most nights i had my little brother "2yrs old to about 5 yrsold" come crawl in bed with me or on my trundle bed, just cuz he was scared to be alone.
but when we are stay at our families cabin, all us cousins boy and girl have one huge room,like 1,000 sqft room, the boys had foam pads that they slept on on the ground, us girls had custom built daybeds all long the walls. and now that the youngest cousin is 21, we brought in queen and king size beds, and guess what, our husbands.wives now sleep in the same room with us..
LOL.. but its not weird to us, we grew up sleeping like that, so we see nothing wrong with it.
but now that we are having babies of our own, we are adding another 2,000 sqft, with a new kids room for the new babies.
it really does depend on how you grew up. If you grew up having your own room, you dont know what its like to have roommates, vice vs.'
having had a room of my own, but sharing with my cousins at our cabin, I know both ways. and I like both ways,
But not everyone can have there own rooms.
Again, things do not have to be black vs. white, as the Duggars tend to view all of life - much in lif is neither all good or all evil. This is far too simplistic an approach for an intelligent exploration of a full life.
The issue is less about each child having her own bedroom and more about the incredible overload of kids crammed into one room, with the oldest daughters (never sons) always on duty for the care of the younger children.
Difficult to imagine the Duggar kids can make an informed decision about anything they may like or dislike (including how many sibs they'd prefer as roommates), as their parents have controlled them to such an extent that any situations, concepts, beliefs that fall so much as an inch outside the parental 'party line' is deemed 'black' and, therefore, verboten. Points are given in the Duggar household for not questioning, but, rather, simple obedience to whatever the parents state as 'truth'.
To make a mature decision, one needs to be free to at least be exposed to some of the outside world and ENCOURAGED to decide for themselves what pieces make sense for them as an individual, and which can be left behind.
The Duggar parents refuse this freedom for even their adult children, and IMO this is not the gold standard of parenting.
Others are free to canonize the Duggars and their lifestyle, but the Duggars will never have my vote.
"Wonder why, in Michelle Duggar logic, it was fine for her to leave home to pursue her own life at 17-18 years of age, yet she seems to discourage her daughters from pursuing their own lives at this age? Do as I say, not as I do?"
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Following around a local doula, making fireskirts and going to the local fire dept, bossing around younger sibs due to her assigned jurisdiction, international travel but only under the close eye and direction of the church, on-line (and at home, under the ever-present total control of the parents) 'college' classes, sky diving and shooting are not at all the same thing as having the maturity and ambition to leave the nest after high school to seek independence, real world experience, full time employment, college education, and, most importantly, self.
IMO, the earlier post was about Mrs. D being free at 17-18 to flap her wings and fly away from her parents' nest to create her OWN life, which is something that the Duggar parents have pretty much made an impossibility for their own kids. The Duggar parental goals seem to include keeping their offspring perenially under the parental roof and childlike by extending parental control as long as humanly possible.
JMO.
How does Duggar courting work,anyone know? are the girls even allowed to mention first that they are interested in courting with someone,or would that be too fwd? do they have to wait for the guy to make the first mention of it? just wondering.
About the sharing bedrooms, it just so happened that Michelle's last 4 babies have been girls so when they are old enough they join the room with what everyone refers to as their "sister-moms". Obviously we don't know for sure but I'd be willing to bet that if Michelle had boys instead of girls from Johannah to Jordyn that those children would instead be in the boys room.
Michelle's new book "A love that multiplies" is now available for Pre-Order on Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/Love-That-Multiplies-Michelle-Duggar/dp/1439183813/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1295913626&sr=8-1
"About the sharing bedrooms, it just so happened that Michelle's last 4 babies have been girls so when they are old enough they join the room with what everyone refers to as their "sister-moms". Obviously we don't know for sure but I'd be willing to bet that if Michelle had boys instead of girls from Johannah to Jordyn that those children would instead be in the boys room."
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Respectfully disagreeing here. It seems the males in the fam basically follow in The Patriarch's footsteps, and, as the daughters have told us on camera, child care is not their father's jurisdiction.
At the Duggar household, it's the standard issue male-dominated role model set up, and Jim Bob Duggar is control of all, most especially the Duggar womenfolk.
Why do people think Michelle would be unable to handle the younger children on her own?
When Joy Anna was born, that gave Michelle 9 children that were 9 yrs old and younger. (Josh, John David, Jana, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joseph, Josiah, and Joy-Anna.)
As of today, she only has 7 children that are 9 yrs old and younger. (James, Justin, Jackson, Johannah, Jennifer, Jordyn, and Josie).
She also has about 13 more years of parenting experience than she did then, as well.
(I realize I did not count all the children; this was because of the age range I was trying to compare.)
Using this logic, why seek any medical assistance ever? Just one example: if diabetic, why take prescribed insulin, because, since everything is totally under god's control, only things that god wills will happen to your body, with or without insulin.
My understanding of the Duggars' beliefs is that the bottom line is choosing what they believe promotes life.
They were told, 20 years ago, that it was a possibility that birth control pills contributed to a miscarriage. Accurate or not, this was information given them by a source they trusted, and based on this information, they chose to no longer use any form of birth control.
There is more to their decision than just using birth control pills or not, because there are plenty of other methods of birth control. It appears that the miscarriage gave them a different perspective on children in general and they chose to discontinue using birth control completely.
They have never, to my knowledge, said that others should not use birth control or even that birth control is bad. They have said that THEY chose not to use any.
This is consistent with promoting life.
Using insulin to treat diabetes, having surgery to treat gallbladder problems, all the life-sustaining medical interventions that were done for Josie, these all promote life.
Using birth control does not promote life.
Now, there are obviously exceptions to this. If Michelle was told that to get pregnant again would definitely cause either her death or the death of the fetus, what would they choose? I don't know. Would they choose to risk Michelle's life to promote life in an unborn child? I would hope they'd choose to preserve Michelle's life so she can continue mothering the children she already has.
I don't see it as inconsistent that the Duggars believe in using medical knowledge and technology to promote life (surgery, etc), but not to prevent life (birth control pills).
Some would say that the fact the Jim Bob thinks it is scary that Michelle could get pregnant is somehow human and heroic. I would be so more impressed if he would just practice abstinence for a short period of time. It is absolutely incomprehensible. Michelle's tears don't impress me, either. She cries over the hardship poor little Josie endured but is willing to jeopardize another little baby.
Judging from tonight's episode, it is pretty much all about Michelle. Some focus on the children, but not much. We had to see that see was cooking and teaching and scared of heights and crying over Josie, etc., etc., etc. In my opinion, she is exactly like Kate Gosselin, only not as shrill! It is somewhat amusing that all of the issues expressed on the blogs concerning Michelle were addressed tonight.
I did enjoy Jackson and Johanna. They are seriously cute little children!
Re: the Duggar "logic" about doing everything they can to 'promote life':
How does hunting fit into this goal? Surely shooting, maiming, killing animals is not 'promoting life'.
We are long past the day where any of us need to hunt in order to eat.
Duggar logic is like lace and swiss cheese: too many holes requiring too many leaps of logic.
JMO.
How does hunting fit into this goal? Surely shooting, maiming, killing animals is not 'promoting life'.
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Duggars only care about human life. They don't care about animal life.
Also, Jim Bob said in this last episode that he doesn't really hunt. The shooting range trip was just to teach children to be responsible around guns. For all we know, John David is the only one who enjoys hunting. Up until this last month, we've never heard or seen the Duggars go hunting, so it is probably not something that they all do as a family. It could just be John David's hobby and his interest, which he's allowed to have.
"If the Duggars did use $110,000 for their own campaign in the past when they were frugil I admire that. They put their money behind their strong desire to be a public servant"
Making your family'slife betteris more imprtant than being a public servant. IMO it seems parents of these large broods especially the religious types, aren't prepared for the possibilty of college education for thier children or other expenses to help children succeed in life. Not all will want college but preperation never hurts. Life is much more expensive now than when Jim Bob started his empire.
I know I am a little late to the discussion but I wanted to add in this little bit of information on the picture of John David and the exchange student with the guns.
TexasDad thought that the one being held by the exchange student is a paint ball gun. It is a Mossberg 500 series bullpup. It is a 12ga shotgun. In order for a shotgun to be legal it has to have a barrel length of at least 16". This shotgun has a barrel length of 18.5". Therefore it is legal. It is not sawed off, since it is a bullpup it simply has a shorter butt which makes the entire length of shotgun shorter than most traditional shotguns. My husband has a mossberg 500 series that he uses for turkey hunting, it is not a bullpup however. You could use one for hunting if you wanted to but a bullpup is more suited for home defense since the shorter butt on the shotgun allows you to bring it closer to your body and would allow you to move easier throughout the home.
I feel like on one episode we saw Jackson in one of the girl's ( Jana's?) bed when everybody was waking up in the morning. Maybe this was a one time thing but maybe some of the little boys ended up in the girls room too, at least when they were younger.
I'm wondering when they will announce the gender of Josh and Anna's new baby. She probably knows by now.
The viewing public has no idea on what the Duggars are spending their money. They seem to have a lot of big toys with wheels. I would guess these are Jim Bob's toys. Although they are not "conspicuous consumers", so to speak, it does take a lot of money to look after all the members of the family. However, as they are always telling us, they were debt free before TLC.
I would hope that the parents are making sure that all of their offspring have money banked individually for future use (or for some, payment for performing on the TV show).
I strongly doubt they do because the father is the controller and it appears that even the older offspring are not mature enough to make any individual decisions. I don't think any of the offspring would even expect any remuneration. Daddy is building up quite the bank account off the backs of his children.JMHO
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@Anonymous 1:09: Well said. Absolute agreement with all points.
Absolute Control seems fitting for Jim Bob's middle names AND he puts a holiness spin to it, as if this level of control defines him as the gold standard in fatherhood. In this way, he takes a negative personality trait and assigns to it a level of alleged morality AND, because he is The Patriarch, no one is to question him.
I question him.
I am sure I am not alone in my questioning of the Duggar ways.
We have no clue whatsoever what the Duggars are doing with their TLC earnings. None. Are they giving each child their fair share? Keeping it all for themselves? We have no idea at all. They have said not a peep about it, ever, and there are no clues at all about who's got which money and where, if the kids have their own accounts, etc.
Accusing JimBob of being the Pious Control Freak of the Century seems presumptive based on the total lack of info on the topic. For myself, I am going to withhold my judgment until or if we ever find out anything.
I also question the Duggar ways, and the financial earnings, spending, and distribution of TLC monies are just the beginning.
"Accusing JimBob of being the Pious Control Freak of the Century seems presumptive based on the total lack of info on the topic." &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& IMO evidence is blatant on just about every episode that The Patriarch considers it his right to make all final decisions. For women that want this kind of husband, great. Me? I'd rather work more as a team with my intellect & wisdom equally respected and weighted in decision-making. The sequestering kids on the Duggar compound as much as possible, the Mrs. Duggar & the girls wearing their 1980's frizz "because Daddy likes it", the lack of encouragement to even the adult kids to think, act, and live on their own..... JMO: not sure how much more evidence is needed to realize that Mr. Duggar is a control freak, who has to use cans o' hair spray to control even his manly hair.
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