Michelle miscarried

People article

Update on Friday.

Today Show announcement.

Today Show uploaded Jim Bob's note from the family blog.

People Update - she miscarried late Sunday.

365 comments:

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Sweetie Pie said...

This is so sad no matter how many children she has. But when she miscarried earlier she took it as a result of the birthcontrol. Hopefully she will see this as her uterus is probably no longer receptive to a pregnancy and isn't a safe place for a baby.

Elverna Bradshaw said...

This is very sad however I hope JimBob and Michelle take this as a sign that their quiver is full enough already. I doubt they will though.

mk said...

I am so heartbroken over this. The loss of a baby, at any phase, is a terrible thing. I was (one of the few, it seems) excited for this pregnancy.

I doubt that they will start using birth control now. I pray that there will be no more conceptions that are miscarried. That takes an enormous toll on all members of a family.

SGoody said...

I feel badly for Michelle as I'm sure it hurts to miscarry, whether it's your first or your twentieth child. I wish them the best.

OhMy91 said...

I am very sadden by this, no mother or father should have to go through something so traumatic as losing a child.

Yet

I can't help but wonder how many weeks was she and did her traveling abroad effect the pregnancy?

Lisa said...

So Sorry to hear this. The miscarriage may also have been due to a chromosomal disorder. Sometimes the body miscarries when it knows something is wrong with the baby. Not saying this is the case, but is another reason it can happen.

Rainbow68 said...

Very sad. I don't think her body can sustain another pregnancy. I hope someone in the medical profession tells her this. I'm not trying to be insensitive. I just want her to stop before her family loses her.

taurus0385 said...

I just seen this on the tlc site. I feel very sad for her and her family. Its never easy to lose a baby. Im praying for her family to find stregnth in this time of loss.

taurus0385 said...

Praying for them but hoping they take some private time for a while and time off for the show.

Kate said...

My heart goes out to the family- no one deserves this. I wonder if the Euro trip was too much!

Elvira said...

I feel for them. Truly I do. Once they had conceived, I could only hope for a healthy pregancy and baby.

However, Michelle has reached the age with a 50% and up miscarriage rate. That's probably a big indication that it might be time to stop.

Enough Already!! said...

Maybe she should have thought of the health and welfare of her unborn baby and the sick premie she already has before galavanting all over the globe for a month. That was way too much for a 45 year old mother of 19 who has had premature labor before.

Enough already, Michelle. I'm sorry she lost the baby, but I hope she will realize that this is now God saying ENOUGH!

mom in texas said...

This is very sad news for the family. I miscarried at 5 and a half months during my first pregnancy. It is an agonizing feeling because you believe that you are indeed in the "clear". No matter when it happens or to whom, it is a sad occurance. I hope the family pulls together and through this together. I also pray this doesn't become an episode on next season's 19 kids and counting.

Becca said...

This is very sad. I wonder how this miscarriage will be interpreted by them. I hope they do not blame themselves or others and think it is the result of some sort of sin or not trusting God enough.

Maybe just maybe they'll reconsider future pregnancies and avoid any fiture tragedies.

hannah said...

Aw, I do feel bad for them. They were so happy.



Please TLC do not to a special on this or the rumored "funeral"

Whitney said...

Very sad news.

Even sadder- making an "announcement" and press release of the news today.

Why was this announcement made today- wouldn't a day or so help all family members understand the loss and start the grief process?

Why do they ask for privacy in the press release when they insisted upon notifying the media within 24 hours of learning the news.

Would the world have come to an end if the Duggars had geven themselves 24-48 hours to accept their loss before announcingit to the world? No

Do I think we'll see a VSE during sweeps next Spring- sadly, yes

And Je$u$ wept...
Low standards even for those who sold their family's porovavcy for a reality TV poaycheck.

Rainbow68 said...

As far as the funeral, this is a 5 month old unborn baby. I checked a website and the size of this baby is a papaya. I can't imagine a typical funeral... but I've never had a miscarriage and don't want to presume on what is the "correct" way to deal with this. I think all of this will be on TLC, but it would be better to turn off the cameras and deal with this privately.

Anonymous said...

Having survived a miscarriage myself early in my second trimester, my heart goes out to Mrs. Duggar and her family, but they should have known better.

19 is plenty---especially since all 19 have doctors and dentists and food and a nice place to live. I assume Mrs. Duggar also had excellent medical care during this physically and emotionally traumatic incident.

I still think TLC should do a show about some huge equally nice equally loving Duggar-like family in Africa or India. Instead of the usual trip to the bookstore etc., viewers could watch the starving kids scramble to gather fire wood to cook a few handfuls of beans outside of their fly-infested mud hut.

Episode suggestions: #1Watch everybody get polio or cholera or influenza. #2 Watch the kids (boys and girls)systematically sold into the sex trade. Whoo hoo.

Truly sorry about Mrs. Duggar's miscarriage, but they have the means (thanks, TLC) to do a good job by the kids they have. What about the other Duggars in other parts of the world?

Former Peace Corps Volunteer

hart&sole said...

Since this was a badly wanted baby I feel so sad for this family, especially for the little children who were so excited. They know no other way of life, so this is indeed a tragedy. I would presume they would have a funeral for closure. (I hate that word but it fits this situation.) Will the cameras be there? I would not be at all surprised, but I hope not.

Sweetie Pie said...

Oh my I read that they discovered no heart beat and that the baby was dead during an ultrasound to know the baby's sex. How horrific she must have had to under go a d/c of her baby instead of a natural spontanious abortion. That is horribly traumatic especially at 5 months. She needs our prayers and not judgement right now.

Leigh Ann said...

I read this on Yahoo and was sad it hear it. Someone wondered why they announced it so early. I bet TLC was filming the ultrasound and they knew about it. Maybe Jim Bob and Michelle figured they better say something before it somehow leaks out. Not that their crew isn't trustworthy, but things get out. Hopefully they can have some time just the 20-something of them to deal with it. This will be a huge disappointmentand upset for everyone. I do wonder how they will handle the future. Will they let any future pregnancies they may have run their course or will they take something to prevent another miscarriage? Or are those drugs only to get you through the first trimester?

As for having a funeral and burial, my cousin was pregnant with triplets (no drugs just lots of eggs) and lost one early on. She was just palm-sized and they named her and had a service and burial. My cousin couldn't go to any of that because once she was admitted she stayed in the hospital until the other two were born. But they put her to rest with a little dignity even if she wasn't very big and never took a breath.

Elverna Bradshaw said...

I'm disturbed by the fact that they found out their bad news apparently this morning and by early afternoon, People magazine was already running a story on it. Meaning that they probably placed a call on the ride home from the doctor. I can't even wrap my head around that.

And please.....producer Sean, we know you read here. Please don't show us a funeral. OR if you must, let it be a funeral for the child that would have been AND for the series. What else can be covered now? We don't need any more train trips, bus trips, dentist visits, Bates visits, and on and on. We've seen them all before. All you are doing is fueling Michelle's obsession and JimBob's baby race with the Bateses.

Elvira said...

Sweetie Pie, they are more likely to induce labor at the point where Michelle is than do a D&C. Michelle also has the option of waiting to see if labor will ensue naturally. They could also remove it by c-section.

Sue said...

Anonymous, I couldn't agree more. While I feel badly for Michelle, she should be happy that she has 19 wonderful children. I know people (myself included), who desperately want more children and it's not because "God" isn't "blessing" us enough-- or that we're not as "good" as the Duggars. It's just plain old bad luck, genetics,age, or something else (in my case-- a chronic health condition in which I'm forced to be on birth control because the medication could be harmful to a fetus were I to get pregnant).

I really, really, dislike hearing them say how "blessed" they are. If you feel that way, ACT that way. Take the 19 you have and be grateful! Don't keep trying to have more, esp. at your age, Michelle, when the chance of chromosomal abnormalities is huge as is the risk for miscarriage.

Anonymous, I LOVE you suggestion! While it is great that the Duggars have had the success they have had by being frugal, etc. (and scoring a well-paying TLC series), in the REAL world... women are forced to walk for miles to get firewood and risk being raped just to get the wood and water for their children. They might die during childbirth because there isn't a hospital nearby. They might live in an area of intense civil war where the food aid that is supposed to help sustain them is actually kept away from them.

Enough already. Please.

HistorianMom said...

Going on a trip in your first trimester of pregnancy is not going to cause the baby to die midway through your second trimester. As far as the timing of the announcement, it was when she was about fourteen weeks, which is when people prone to miscarry kind of exhale, because you have passed the first trimester. I agree that there's a high probability of a chromosomal or other abnormality when a baby dies at this point in the pregnancy. I feel bad for the family. As far as the announcement was concerned, I bet there were camera people there to find out the sex of the baby, so ther was no way this was going to be private. They probably made the press release to forestall the inevitable calls when rumors got out.

sandi said...

My heart goes out to the Duggars.This was very much a wanted child.It probably didn't have anything to do with Michelle's health,as she was in good health;rather,the age of her eggs and likely genetic defects.

Anonymous said...

anything after 20 weeks pg in my state you have to labor and deliver and it is considered a stillbirth and after you have the baby. The hospital told me that they can cremate or I can bury it. I chose a burial. I had a graveside service and yes they do make small caskets. My son was 27 weeks along. if you want to know more you can google it people on you tube have videos holding there children and everything it is the sadest think you will watch I think Michele was 20 or 21 weeks along. I think she was due the 18the of April.

Lindy said...

I am saddened by Michelle and JimBob's loss. I hope the good thing that will come out of this tragedy is that the children will question their parents' belief system, in that the parents cannot blame their latest miscarriage on birth control. I do hope that they do not publicize the funeral of their fetus and keep it strictly a personal matter. I also hope that they do not try for number 20 again.

Miggy said...

So many possible reason; tired uterus, baby attaching to previous caesar scar (Michelle has had four and this is a known risk factor), decreased home levels due to age (as in Kelly Bates case), chromosonal abnormality (age related) .... the list goes on. I don't want to know the reason - it is not my business but I really hope the doctors can find the cause and that Michelle listens to their advice. Comments she has made suggest she believes her reproductive system will just switch off on day but hormone levels usually drop slowly and that could mean years of miscarriages. I pray this doeesn't happen, for her and her family.

Nikki said...

Very sad news despite my personal thoughts of this couple. No one wishes an innocent life to end. You're forever held in the arms of God now, little one.

Becca said...

I just thought I hope the little children werent there for the ultrasound. I remember an earlier episode when the whole family went to find out if they were having a brother or sister.
It's truly very sad, and I echo others in my hope that they choose to grieve without the cameras.

Duggar fan said...

I am very sorry that this has happened to the Duggar family. I have had a miscarriage and it is very sad.

Sweetie pie makes a good point.

The Duggars started their personal philosophy of "having as many children as God would give them"; after a miscarriage that they felt they had caused, using birth control.

As I stated on the other thread, that I think God is bigger than our mistakes and that I too have as many children as God would have me to have, even using birth control for 30 years. I have four children, 2 concieved while on pills, two with condoms. God was bigger than birthcontrol!

Miscarriages can be caused by birthcontrol pills, because as I said, I had one while on the pill. But, honestly, miscarriages could also be caused by GETTING pregnant too soon after a previous pregnancy; and especialy when your body is too old to carry a child to term. And having miscarriages over and over can actually, according to some studies,increase the likelihood of breast cancer.

So, will they continue to get pregnant, even though it is irresponsible? Even though Michelle's age is the cause of the death of this child? It doesn't make sense to stop birthcontrol because it caused the death of their child, then continue getting pregnant, when age is the cause for the death of this child.

Having children is a choice, that is a fact. (except in the case of rape) It is ALWAYS in the power of the couple to have or not have, as they decide to abstain or slow down bedroom behavior...and control their selfish passions. God gave us brains; wisdom, modern medical care and some discretion.

duggar fan said...

Wasn't 20 just about as old as Josie was when she was born?

This is a horrific day for the family...I do feel awful for them, because she will have to give birth to this baby.

They should have a funeral, and name the baby.

Just Me said...

As others have said, I too am saddened by their loss. I am also due in April and had an ultrasound yesterday. I was nervous because I have yet to feel the baby kick and was not feeling well the last couple of days. I was so happy to see a healthy baby kicking and moving with a very healthy heartbeat. Turns out my placenta is placed so that I won't feel as much movement as many pregnant women and I caught a virus at work. I do know that while I am younger then Michelle it still could have been me in her positon and how sad I would be. I also hope that none, or perhaps only one of the other children were with her. That could be especially traumatizing to a younger child who would not immediately understand what was happening.

Anonymous said...

I'm sad for the whole family. Whether it's your first or 50th it's heartbreaking! God bless!

sandi said...

duggar fan,no,Josie was 25+ weeks.

KbA789 said...

I will start by saying my thoughts are with the family, especially the little ones who can't really wrap their minds around what happened.

However, Michelle and JimBob are foolish. I have had a problem with them since they feel birth control is such an issue and the "cause" of their first miscarriage. I conceived a child while on the pill, carried him full term with no complications, and he is the picture of health and perfection. I have SEVERAL friends who conceived while on the pill (mostly from misuse or while on antibiotics) and their babies are JUST fine. Miscarriage happens for so many reasons.

Now my question is what will the scapegoat of the Duggars be this time? Evil science (which is responsible for the life of little Josie, another thing that angers me...they always thank "God" and prayers for her but never acknowledge modern medicine) caused the first miscarriage, so what about this one? I think they have hidden behind their religion too long. They are addicts addicted to having children. If their "God" is real (which I doubt) he will slap them one day and tell them how ignorant they are.

Also, I hope their daughters find happiness in whatever they choose and don't just become their mother. They are beautiful and very bright, no doubt they can all achieve whatever they choose to pursue as long as old-fashion Jim Bob isn't there to stomp their dream!

Keri said...

While the loss of a child is horrible, I am horrified that there was a media statement released the same day. She still may not have had a d&c or birthed the child yet, so it's a very bad idea to feed it to the media before anyone has really had a chance to grieve in their family. I also hope they stop reproducing and enjoy the blessings of the many grandchildren they will have.

heavennoseven said...

She was 19 weeks along. She had a letter on the website.


http://www.duggarfamily.com/

hart&sole said...

Since the TLC crew has always attended the ultrasound that tells the baby's sex, I would presume that Michelle and Jim Bob had no choice about going public in this case. Probably all the kids were there, too. I hope they left before the lack of a heartbeat was announced. I give them a BIG pass on the announcement. Who knows maybe the news was leaked to People Magazine and they called to confirm. As for the funeral, how much choice is there. It would take a pretty heartless mother to just have the hospital toss it in their incinerator. We're talking about a fetus who would be obviously recognised as a human infant even though it's only about 6 inches long.

ennvee said...

Why was this announcement made today- wouldn't a day or so help all family members understand the loss and start the grief process?

=====================================

I just read somewhere (sorry, it's late, eyes blurry after a day of writing...didn't even find out about this until about 8 this evening) that they found out on Wednesday, released the news Thursday. From other women who have gone through this around 19-20 weeks (I guess official word is that Michelle was 19 weeks along) is that she will have to to a hospital and be induced if spontaneous labor doesn't happen a couple days after they discovered no heartbeat.

I wonder, given her age, how often she was going to the doctor and got ultrasounds? I would think they'd be more frequent than a "regular," low-risk pregnancy. What I'm getting at is that the fetus probably died within the last week or so. I read one story of a woman whose fetus stopped growing at 9 weeks, but she did not go into labor until week 17. Yikes!

Anyway, they'll induce her or have a c-section (she can probably deliver VBAC since it's so small) in the next couple of days, max.

Sorry it happened, but as is the case with the two miscarriages I suffered around week 12, it's sad, but it's for the best. The fetus must have had some major chromosomal problems to die like that in utero (although the cord could have been involved, I suppose...anything's possible).

I think God is telling them that maybe it's time to start enjoying their small kids who barely know them, and their grandkids.

And please, NO FETUS FUNERAL! Thanks.

Melba said...

I believe that God is all knowing but He also allows us to make our own choices. If the Duggars are doing everything they can to conceive a child with no concern for the health of the mother or baby, that is a choice they are making of their own free will. While I am sorry for their loss, they should ask God to help them make better choices because those 19 children need their mother to be around a lot longer.

londonbridges said...

I too am sorry for their loss. A miscarriage is a tough trial to go through for the woman and her partner, and then the rest of the family.

Tetotomom said...

I think this is Gods way of telling them no more babies for the older girls to raise. Those girls need their own lives ...not being sister mothers.

TK said...

I feel bad for her. I have had 2 miscarriages and although my husband was completely supportive, the bottom line is that I regarded them as a death, which my husband could not understand. Get well soon Michelle

Unknown said...

Will not hold my breath that they will see this as a "sign from God" that they are done with the baby making. Michelle is absolutely addicted to being pregnant. She will keep trying no matter what. Josie should have been the "message that sunk in" but obviously was not. Very sad situation all around. (would not be at all surprised if Grandma Duggar and some of the kids are secretly relieved...)

Rainbow68 said...

There is no scripture that says to do something that the medical community would say is very dangerous. She is 45, has had pre-eclampsia and delivered her last baby very early. Josie made it to 25 weeks. We're not sure how long this baby was alive. Scripture says children are a heritage. That's it. I realize that they follow Bill Gothard slavishly, and will confidently tell us that they are "letting God decide". I guess Michelle could climb to the top of the Empire State Building and jump, all the while saying she was letting God decide her fate. Sad thing is, in a deliberate high-risk pregnancy, you are not the only one affected. The baby who is no longer in a hospitable womb is certainly affected as are the children you already have. If they are going to engage in this high-risk behavior, please leave God out of this. This is strictly their decision. Knowing you are very fertile and having unprotected sex during the time you're ovulating is selfish. Please enjoy the children you already have. I have also heard Michelle say tearfully that she would be willing to die carrying another baby. The sad thing is, I think she wears this attitude as a badge of honor. Willful foolishness is not something to be proud of. These words are harsh, but as a fellow Christian I can no longer bear the Gothard-like twisting of scripture to justify high-risk behavior.

Momygirl said...

So sad. A loss at 19 weeks should not be a miscarriage. They had a fully formed child that lost his/her heartbeat. I would definitely think a funeral would be respectful. My heart goes out to them.

stephanie said...

Wait a minute, a baby that far along has to be delivered just like a live baby. Is she going to wait to naturally deliver or will doctors move labor along? Why was she home so fast giving interviews with her deceased baby in her body? They also said they didn't know what the sex is, so she is still pregnant right? And here is another tramatic event for her already overused uterus. She is still in danger IMO she could bleed out or any complications could arise. Those doctors can advise her to not get pregnant but they don't have to listen.

Rainbow68 said...

People.com is reporting that "Michelle's doctor recommended that she allow the miscarriage to occur without using medications that cause her uterus to contract, due to the cut that her emergency Caesarean for Josie created." I'm not familiar with why that is preferable, but it sounds very dangerous to me. Michelle is waiting for her baby to pass. Depending on how long the baby has been deceased, it could be a hard thing to view. JimBob is said to be the leader of his family and I'm certain that Michelle believes in submission. Knowing this and reading that some of you believe that the Duggars view this website, I'd like to make a personal appeal to JimBob: I know that you always say that you let Michelle decide whether or not she's finished having children, but I urge you not be passive anymore. Her body, particularly her uterus, is clearly warn out. Please intervene for Michelle, any future babies she can no longer carry, and your own children. If you want to grow old with Michelle, you have to speak up. Release her from the guilt she carries about using birth control over 20 years ago. She doesn't have to attone for the first miscarriage. Please save your wife.

Nikki said...

I hope they don't blame the miscarriage on Josiah's reaction to the pregnancy announcement. He doesn't need to carry around that guilt. Sadly, they need a scapegoat and aren't above doing just that.

So sad too bad said...

I was just thinking about Michelle the other day. I was thinking that it is almost Josie's birthday and 2 years ago at this time Michelle was experiencing problems with her pregnancy. Before hearing the news I thought well everything must be going all right for Michelle and then I read she miscarried. It is sad but hopefully a wake up call. The doctor better have a talk with them when this is all over.

Elverna Bradshaw said...

I don't think they are seeing Dr Sarver anymore because one of the People articles said they were at the midwife's (probably Miss Teresa) for the ultrasound. (Unless they were at one of those strip mall 3D ultrasound places like Anna went to for Michael, in which case I'm violently shaking my head.) I'm assuming Miss Teresa (and her husband) was/ were the medical person(s) of record on this pregnancy.

ennvee said...

Rainbow68, the People article said the fetus measured as 16 weeks and that she was officially 19 weeks, 1 day along when dx'ed.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20552365,00.html

tulip said...

Sad...for many reasons. First and foremost for the loss of a new & precious life. Also, assuming the TLC crew was there for the ultrasound, as well as all the rest of the family, I agree with you heart&sole that something like this most likely went public more quickly then maybe was necessary. Also, stephanie, I believe you're right that Michelle may actually have to deliver. That is such a sad and heartbreaking thing to have to do. I definitely agree with naming the baby and having a memorial service...I hope, as it sounds like all of you do, that they all take a break from filming and take a step back from all the distractions of living life in front of the cameras.

hart&sole said...

Maybe, and hopefully, I am wrong, but I can't see either Jim Bob or Michelle wanting to stop filming
19 Kids and Counting. And, aside from that, I can't see this couple deciding not to accept another pregnancy. They said they believe that the show is their mission to provide encouragment to other families. I am positively amazed at how many people want to sign up for this kind of lifestyle. How much money would a person need to make each year to adequately raise 19 children? I wish I could just quit watching this show, but I can't seem to. It's like a soap opera back in the day.

Leigh Ann said...

People.com is reporting that "Michelle's doctor recommended that she allow the miscarriage to occur without using medications that cause her uterus to contract, due to the cut that her emergency Caesarean for Josie created." I'm not familiar with why that is preferable, but it sounds very dangerous to me.
----------
Induced contractions are much stronger than natural contractions and they're worried about her uterus rupturing from the extra "oomph". I can't imagine that natural contractions would be safe, either.

sandi said...

will they even be able to tell the sex of the baby,(without dna tests),since growth stopped at 16 wks? just wondering,if anyone knows.
yes,I am sure Jim Bob and Michelle will want to see the baby,even though it's no longer living.I hope they will chose not to show the little ones though;that could be quite scary for them,imo.do a search for a fetus/misscarriage at 16 wks and you will see what I mean.

Elvira said...

We can't say the baby stopped growing at 16 weeks. The fetus is the average size at 16 weeks. Just as children grow at different rates outside the womb, fetuses grow at different rates. Jill heard the heartbeat it is reported so the fetus should have made it to 17 weeks gestation or more if that is correct. It is not unusual for a fetus with problems to be small for gestational age. They should be able to tell the gender by looking.

Rainbow68 said...

Thank you ennvee and Leigh ann for the answers. I googled "miscarriage at 16 weeks" and wish I hadn't. The family and the viewers don't need to see this. TLC will have to handle this situation with kid gloves and will have to discard a lot of footage from when they thought the baby was okay :(

tiggycat said...

This is very sad, I'm sure the family is heartbroken. I don't agree with their choices on family planning, but I do believe the Duggars love one another very much.
This same thing happened to a friend at around 20 weeks. They also wanted to know the gender of the fetus, but because fetal tissue breaks down rapidly inside the uterus the doctor was unable to discern the gender. This may also be the case for Michelle. The longer she carries the fetus, the greater risk she is at for infection. I hope her doctor/midwife explained this to her.

ennvee said...

I'm really creeped out that they've set a date for the funeral. If Michelle still hasn't spontaneously aborted (sorry, that's the medical term for a loss at that gestation age) by Wednesday, what then?

I think, especially since she's on bedrest, that she's already gone though the worst. Just reading other message boards with women who have had the same thing happen at the same gestational age, they lived their "regular lives" until the contractions came. Of course, none are as old as Michelle and weren't on their 20th kid. At any rate, I can't imagine the doctors wanting her to have ANY contractions at all; I think that could be dangerous for her (as in hysterectomy dangerous).

I really hope that everything was over when they made the press announcements; HIPAA laws won't let doctors talk, and I'm sure a camera crew was accompanying her to these recent appointments (she should have been scheduled for an appointment since Jill last heard a heartbeat on 11/25. When she DIDN'T hear one, they should have called the doctor stat.

If you couldn't tell, now that more statements from the Duggars are coming out, I'm becoming more skeptical about the truth, especially since the Duggars have been known to stretch it a time or a thousand.

Reality TV Junkie said...

I'm hoping badly that they do not televise the funeral. They did with Grandpa Duggar's, so I wouldn't put it past them either. Please Duggars, do not film the funeral hoping that it will bring encouragement to other people in the same situation; just keep it private this time. I think two problem pregnancies in a row is a sign.

Leigh Ann said...

I wonder if since the baby isn't very big and her uterus isn't really stretched out and putting strain on her incision site if that's why natural contractions are OK at this point.

Rachel said...

It is very, very sad any time any baby dies. My mom had a miscarriage in 1976 and I know she thinks about that baby every singe day.

Hopefully Michelle will get some kind of counseling following this miscarriage, since her first miscarriage clearly caused her to completely change the direction of her life.

I know that they will not use any kind of birth control to prevent future pregnancies, but maybe her uterus has announced that it is done now.

SmokeyKitty said...

I hate to feel so little pity but I couldn't help but think "so what".
Michelle might be mourning the loss of her baby, but then she so callously treats her most delicate child, Josie, with so much callous disregard that it strikes me as hypocritical for her to put her preemie's life in danger while talking about the value of life etc...
If G-d has anything to do with this maybe He is telling her to stop capitalizing off of her children and fecundity and start actually being a mother.
I honestly believe that she is mourning the loss of her fecundity and the ability to capitalize off of it more than anything. I wish I could believe in their sincerity, but I see it as an act.
They have turned child bearing into a fetish or an obsession. They are obsessed with their piety and their ability to be "better" whilst denying their children free thought, education, and basic independence and choice. We live in a country where a child can truly be whatever they want to be. Yet, they deny their children those opportunities on purpose.
I am cynical enough to believe that they will capitalize on this unborn child as much as they can. Without even having been born this child will be a way to increase the fame and monetary worth of the Duggar clan.

lal said...

Can anybody post a link for the scene where Josiah runs out of the room when it is announced that Michelle was pregnant with number 20.?

Casey said...

I am so very sad for the whole family, I have had a miscarriage and it is a terrible loss...no matter what number child it is in a family
It is nice to see so many kind comments here.

hart&sole said...

When I told my daughter about Michelle's miscarriage (she does not watch '19 kids and counting,') her comment was, 'Mom, how is this any different from hoarding?'You know what? She's right! If Michelle and Jim Bob had 19 dogs and were at the pet shop looking for another one, we would think they are nuts. Instead, since it's babies we're talking about, we are to believe Michelle and Jim have 19'blessing' from the Lord, who is opening and closing her womb, since God has so little to do these days?

Enough is Enough! said...

I'm also skeptical about the truth, given that the Duggars are fame and media whores, whose main goal is to make as much money as possible. A new baby is a ratings bonanza for a failing show.

I thought it odd that Michelle could galavant around the globe for a month in the first trimester with her known history of severe morning sickness, particularly with all the air, bus and boat travel. There was little resting involved.

We'll never know. I just wish them well and wish them off the air. Enough is now enough.

Seriously? said...

For obvious reasons, this one can't simplistically be blamed on oral contraceptives.

Too bad the Duggars won't interpret this as one of God's signs that maybe they should start using common sense in factoring in Mrs. Duggar's age and gravidity before considering any further pregnancies.

Seriously? said...

"I'm hoping badly that they do not televise the funeral. They did with Grandpa Duggar's, so I wouldn't put it past them either. Please Duggars, do not film the funeral hoping that it will bring encouragement to other people in the same situation"

--------------------------------

Strongly agree. It would be nothing less than obscene to exploit the miscarriage in TLC's attempt to grab higher ratings.

It's sad to realize that this kind of drama WOULD bring higher ratings. It speaks sad volumes that there is a tv market for this kind of personal, private drama.

Equally sad is the fact that there are some who would be willing to sell their most personal drama (like Grampa's b'day and funeral) for tv viewers' consumption.

tashapork said...

I can see how someone who doesn't watch the Duggars' show could see having more kids as hoarding, but I see it differently. A person who has a farm with plenty of space and is able to take care of a lot of animals is not considered a hoarder, whereas someone who keeps them in a trailer, doesn't clean, feed, or provide for them medical care properly is one. While others may have different priorities or values, millions of kids in this country get a lot less love, care, space, and attention than they do. There is no way I could or would even try to raise that many, but at least if they are chosing to do so, they are taking responsibility. Their freedom to choose and to take responsibility for that choice just as my ability to choose to limit my family size for my own reasons is what makes this country special.

It's Exploitation... said...

Is anyone else not buying the fact that this is only Michelle's second miscarriage? I suffered one a few years ago and was told by my doctor it occurs in 1 out of every 4 or even 1 out of every 3 pregnancies. As many times as Michelle has been pregnant, I would imagine she's had some first trimester miscarriages before. But they wouldn't be able to blame it on birth control pills, so they may have kept it under wraps.
That being said, my heart goes out to them. A miscarriage is hard no matter how many children someone has.

sandi said...

I would much rather see the funeral as opposed to seeing Michelle in mini-labor with this baby;much less,I hope they do not show the fetus.Some things are just better left sacred and alone for the sake of family's own privacy.I hope tlc sees it this way.

sandi said...

Re:(she should have been scheduled for an appointment since Jill last heard a heartbeat on 11/25. When she DIDN'T hear one, they should have called the doctor stat
-----------------------------------

I just took it as they didn't listen for the heartbeat every day.Most ppl don't,if things are going well.And it seems they thought they were,as they were going to the Dr. to determine the sex of the baby.

faline said...

You can view the video of Josiah's reaction to #20:

imageshack.us/9/508/shotic.jpg

hannah said...

Happy Birthday Josie. I hope your mom spend some time with you and realized how blessed she was that you are alive. I hope the rest of the duggars have good birthdays this month.

HondaMom said...

Since so many people have brought up the preeclampsia: having preeclampsia in one pregnancy does not mean you will experience it in subsequent pregnancies (it's something like 20% will get it again). Also, among people who do experience it more than once, the first time is usually the most severe.

Also, there are a myriad of reasons why someone might experience a miscarriage. If this were "God telling them to quit," then it would make more sense for God to just close her womb and not allow her to have conceived again in the first place. Saying this miscarriage is a message from God is equivalent to the Duggars' claim that they KNOW their first miscarriage was because of taking the pill (that is one of many possibilities, but they don't KNOW that).

ennvee said...

lal, if you can find the Q&A episode on YouTube, it's at the very end when Michelle makes the announcement she's pregnant. Josiah, off to the right near Joy and Jim Bob bolts and Jana (I looked at it a few times when I still had it the DVR queue) says, "Josiah, don't cry!" However, she's in the back row and can't get to him; I guess she was his "buddy" back in the day. He's later seen on the other side of the group with a tissue in hand, then next to Jim Bob again, looking very upset. Jim Bob is practically horse-collaring him to keep him in the shot. It was strangely edited so there is no certainty about what actually happened to him.

Gothard is big on blame: Josh was the scapegoat for Jim Bob's failed election. I don't find it at all out of their "character" to find "sin in the camp" here as well, either with Josiah or with Jill, who says she last heard a fetal heartbeat on 11/25. To be honest, who knows what she really heard? It could have been stomach gurgling or gas for all we know. She's apparently training with a low-level doula (they are not licensed in AR), not at with a nurse-midwife or at a reputable nursing college...(she's still "thinking" about that, as of about a month ago at a book signing).

Something is definitely rotten in the House of Duggar.

Reality TV Junkie said...

"Is anyone else not buying the fact that this is only Michelle's second miscarriage? I suffered one a few years ago and was told by my doctor it occurs in 1 out of every 4 or even 1 out of every 3 pregnancies."
----------------
Yes, that is true, but usually a miscarriage happens so early on in the pregnancy that the person didn't even know they were pregnant in the first place. So perhaps Michelle has had more, but didn't know about it as most people don't.

Anonymous said...

I'm so sad for the Duggars. The heartache must be so painful. I've been thinking about how Michelle has chosen to wait at home for her body to give birth to the baby instead of being induced. That must be agony, the waiting while knowing the baby inside you isn't alive. I'm so sorry Michelle and the family are suffering like that.

I absolutely agree there should be a funeral. This is important for healing and dealing. A friend of mine lost three babies around 19-23 weeks and had a funeral each time. The baby looks like a miniature full-term baby, completely developed. I couldn't imagine anything but a dignified funeral.

It isn't my business what choices the Duggars make regarding future pregnancies but I hope they don't try again. Its not for me to say what the Lord's will is for them, but maybe God doesn't want Michelle to have more babies. Maybe He has amazing plans for them to be advocates in other ways, and He has chosen for them to have 19 children on this Earth, and no more. I hope they can maybe accept that possibility. But again, that's their business and that's between them and God.

I think, probably, birth control was not the reason Michelle miscarried her second child. It could have been the reason, but certainly not definitely. Many people conceive and carry healthy, full-term babies on bc. As far as this miscarriage, I suspect either chromosomal issues or attachment to a weak or scarred part of the uterus. I do not, by any means, think this miscarriage was caused by her trip in her first trimester.

As for the early announcement, I don't think it's a poor choice on their part. It actually might have saved them grief over false rumors, etc. I thought their statement to the public was short and tasteful and to the point. I also agree that TLC was probably at the ultrasound, and quite possibly other children of theirs. It must have been a terrible moment for them to all be there and find out such crushing news. I'm so sorry they went through that.

For me and my family, the Duggars are encouraging and we enjoy their show. I think they are raising respectful, kind children who will be an asset to society. Personally, i didnt feel lead to have 19 children but i don't think God has the same calling or plans for each of us. I think they truly wanted this little one, and I'm deeply sorry they are hurting. I pray God gives them peace, strength and comfort.

sandi said...

I don't see as they've set a date for the funeral.The article simply says they have planned a funeral after Michelle miscarries and they find out the sex and can name it.
As far as infection,as long as her membranes haven't ruptured,I believe she will be just fine.

Seriously? said...

"Also, there are a myriad of reasons why someone might experience a miscarriage. If this were "God telling them to quit," then it would make more sense for God to just close her womb"

__________________________________

Or, another perspective might be: it makes more sense to consider that maybe God is not in the 'womb closing' business at all.

Just food for thought being offered, not criticism.

Seriously? said...

TLC has will have had enough time to do their PR research to weigh public opinion before deciding if televising any/all things involved with this controversial pregnancy and its fairly predictable demise will bring in more viewers or, conversely, turn even more people off to the Duggars and their whole tv persona.

Kitten said...

A person who has a farm with plenty of space and is able to take care of a lot of animals is not considered a hoarder, whereas someone who keeps them in a trailer, doesn't clean, feed, or provide for them medical care properly is one...at least if they are chosing to do so, they are taking responsibility.

True, the Duggars can have as many children as they like, but remember, before TLC came along, they were, in fact, living in the equivalent of a trailer (3BD, 2 BA house). While they had the frame of the new house built, it would have been YEARS before it was habitable without the TLC money.

There is no shame in being poor, and they managed (more or less) to provide the basics, but let's not gloss over or pretend that their pre-TLC life was in any way equivalent to what they enjoy now. JimBob and Michelle sold their children's privacy and childhoods for 30 pieces of silver.

Seriously? said...

Not aware that anyone here claimed this miscarriage was a message from God. All I've read here is that it would be a good thing if the Duggars were able to see it that way, since they seem to be the type who believe God leaves little clues/signs specifically for them. Not all of us look at it that way, but, since the Duggars seem to, why take lesser things as God's 'sign' while ignoring this event as an equally plausible possible 'sign'?

tulip said...

The first thought that came to my mind about Josiah's reaction wasn't necessarily the news of yet another baby added to the family, but rather maybe the fear and sadness he has for the possibility of what ANOTHER pregnancy could do to his Mom, like the chance it could be fatal to her. Just another reason this has to stop...I'm sure, no matter how much they trust in God for all things, that some of the kids live in fear that their mother one day may not be around any longer because of complications with MORE pregnancies-it's sad.

There are so many reasons that could have been the cause of the miscarriage. The bottom line in my mind is God created women to be able to bear children for a certain period of time in their lives, and up to a certain point the body (as created by God) is not able to continue the process of the newly created life to thrive or live whether because of her age and hormone levels or whatever. This is a Biblical truth for Jim Bob & Michelle, AND Gil & Kelly Bates (especially regarding Kelly's use of "hormonal supplements".)

heavennoseven said...

I hope TLC stops filming, they gave breaks to other TLC shows when they were having major family problems.


However, I doubt this will happen. The Duggars lost all the morals they had in the early days. If they must show it have them talk about it like Anna did.


TLC read the signs its time to step away.

UGH!!!!! said...

Disagree with much of their choices but certainly, at this point, simply sympathize and wish all the best. Plenty of other entries have already covered the “lessons” involved – miscarriages are statistically with usually little way to tell the cause. I only have condolences to offer now.

That said, a friend of mine miscarried twins just like this. They could tell death had occurred a few weeks back and therefore had to “abort” them – but misjudged how broken down it all was. The minute they were touched, they broke down like dust and she went into full sepsis. Huge life-threatening nightmare later, she woke up with a full hysterectomy at 22 (they have since adopted). I’m sure she’s being watched carefully but I worry about docs’ true ability to accurately gauge someone of this age/history, whose uterus cannot withstand one type of contraction over another. Let’s just hope. But at this point in pregnancy, a miscarriage is indeed a big deal.

Rainbow68 said...

Ok, thought the Josiah on the baby announcement comments were a bit of a stretch, but he looked very unhappy. Could he be worried he might lose his mom?

Reality TV Junkie said...

Here is the actual episode of the "All you wanted to know". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lJ0fWfOHro

They make the announcement just after the 8 minute mark. If you pay close attention, you can definitely see Josiah walk off and someone shouting his name shortly after.

Leah said...

I don't want to sound callous here because I am sad for their loss. But I don't like how many articles I've read about how much personal time and rest Michelle is getting these days. Now, I agree someone who has gone through a 2nd trimester miscarriage needs rest. But apparently, while the child was still living, Michelle was taking a nap every day. AND working out every day. That's fine, but I have only 2 young kids and I can't imagine getting to have so much personal time every day. Since when does getting pregnant again qualify you for MORE personal time? Whoa, that's not how it works in my house! Getting pregnant at age 45 with several children under age 5 means you better be ready to roll up those sleeves and ditch that nap because you've got WORK to do. If the 5 oldest girls were to just disappear one day, would Michelle be able to sneak in daily naps and workouts? Not a chance. If you choose to have that many children, that's your choice. But don't be surprised when one day you look around and your children resent you because you relied on them to do the dirty work for so many years while you were off accepting mother of the year awards. Don't let your heart break when Jordyn doesn't call home very often after she gets married because she doesn't really know you. Don't be shocked when Jessa decides not to have kids because she's so darn tired of raising them.

For the record, Michelle used to be my absolute hero. I never, ever thought I'd say stuff like this about her. But, I'm saying what's on my heart these days. I dont like what I see anymore.

stephanie said...

I just rewatched the baby announcment and Josiah did disappear and when you briefly see him again he looks like he was crying. But as always with Jimbob the she phony show must go on. They are as fake as the Kardashians show.

Krissy said...

I have to say I'm in the minority that doesn't really feel any pity for Michelle. I feel bad for the baby of course, but Michelle has a gaggle of children under five that already aren't receiving the attention and nurturing they deserve.

Johannah and Jackson's grammer is atrocious, Jennifer appeared to have speech issues early in life, Josie is still having recurring medical emergencies and Jordyn could probably hop a bus to Little Rock before anyone realized she was gone.

A miscarriage is sad under any circumstances, but I truly believe this baby would have turned out to be another Josie or possibly worse. I think Michelle seriously needs to re-evaluate her priorities.

heavennoseven said...

I am not trying to sound rude. However if she was feeling strange why didn`t she go to the ER. She has done this 19 times,19 children(2 sets of twins)and 2 miscarriages. I am not saying this would not happened if she did seek help. I just find it odd that she didn`t or have Jill use the droopier.

sandi said...

Re: Not aware that anyone here claimed this miscarriage was a message from God. All I've read here is that it would be a good thing if the Duggars were able to see it that way, since they seem to be the type who believe God leaves little clues/signs specifically for them. Not all of us look at it that way, but, since the Duggars seem to, why take lesser things as God's 'sign' while ignoring this event as an equally plausible possible 'sign'?

-----------------------------------

I agree,and I'm not judging them,but I would like to point out that I don't see how they can claim that God is the giver and taker/holder of life,yet still claim they caused their own miscarriage the first time with birth control pills.Either God is or isn't the giver and taker of life;you can't have it both ways.It's not a congruous statement.Perhaps that first child,just as this last one,was not meant to be.JMO.

It's Exploitation... said...

Is anyone else not buying the fact that this is only Michelle's second miscarriage? I suffered one a few years ago and was told by my doctor it occurs in 1 out of every 4 or even 1 out of every 3 pregnancies."
----------------
"Yes, that is true, but usually a miscarriage happens so early on in the pregnancy that the person didn't even know they were pregnant in the first place. So perhaps Michelle has had more, but didn't know about it as most people don't."

But Michelle keep pretty close track of her cycle. She even said in one episode that the older girls watch it like a hawk. (Something I've always thought was weird. What teenage girl wants to know that mom is on her period?) I'm sure, just like Anna, Michelle is taking pregnancy tests as soon as she's late and has been her entire marriage. I'm sure it's none of my business, I'm just not buying that this is only her second one.

Annie2 said...

"Ok, thought the Josiah on the baby announcement comments were a bit of a stretch, but he looked very unhappy. Could he be worried he might lose his mom?"

I agree. I think he may also be worried about loosing the baby. He was so emotional when he got to hold Josie. He looked so worried about her.

londonbridges said...

I agree that God may not be in the 'womb-closing' business. My hope is that the Duggars will truly understand that this may be the last of the pregnancies for Michelle.

As a mom who has suffered a miscarriage, it is such a painful experience and I do feel for this family. However, the youngest blessings desperately need their bio mom's attention and hands-on care. Perhaps she will finally understand this, but I'm not holding my breath.........JMHO.

Andrea said...

To hart&sole: Concerning not wanting to watch the show, but not being able to stop. I'll tell you what I did. . . I made plans Tuesday night; Go to the movies, see a friend for dinner, undertake a project which requires time and concentration, read a book, etc. I haven't watched the show since number 20 was announced, as I felt so very sad for the adult Duggar daughters. I get my Duggar fix by coming to the message board and reading about what happened. Sadly, the Duggars will continue to be on television as long as people watch, Jim Bob and Michelle are egomaniacs and the tv show feeds into their egos.

Andrea said...

One additional thought, that I don't think anyone else has mentioned. There is a very strongly likelihood that had this pregnancy progressed Michelle's life would have been endanger or she could have died herself. Josie was born so pre-maturely to save Michelle's life remember. Women die in childbirth every day all over the world. To speak in the language that Jim Bob and Michelle understand: This is the sign from God to stop, rejoice in the 19 children that you already have and praise the lord for your continued existence and health.

Melinda said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Steph said...

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/duggars-plan-memorial-baby-jubilee-shalom-michelle-hospitalized-191629324.html

Elverna Bradshaw said...

A girl named Jubilee Shalom, eh? Didn't the Bateses name one of their miscarriages Jubilee also?

I see JimBob didn't let his longed-for Julie name get used on this one.

It must be killing them that it was a girl who would equal things up. Look for them to try again after the 80 days is over.

Oh my said...

Jubilee Shalom. Really?

Anonymous said...

JimBob insists they didn't want to "stop on an uneven number." I think they know that they are done having babies (not by their choice, of course) and so he wants to say they have 20 kids, 10 boys and 10 girls--but how can they count baby "Jubilee," and not count baby "Caleb?" By my count they either have 19 kids or 21 kids, so it seems they are stopping on an uneven number. And if Michelle does become pregnant again, it will only result in heartache. Time to enjoy your adorable grandchildren, Michelle.

Lindy (edited) said...

JimBob and Michelle hopefully will have the funeral privately and not give TLC or any other news organization permission to publicize the funeral in any way, shape, or form. Publicizing the funeral will not promote the Duggars in a positive way. I think, should they show pics of the funeral even, there will be such a strong backlash against JimBob and Michelle, their 15 minutes of fame may end rather quickly. Hardly anyone will stand in line for book signings or wait to hear them play their violins or sing. Actually, I was a taken aback when they showed Grandpa Duggar's death in an episode, but thought maybe they did it because Grandpa Duggar was an integral part of the entire family's life. One really can't say what they should have done in regards to their public announcement and updates on their website. It's been done, and hopefully JimB especially has learned that the world does not revolve around his libido or Michelle's uterus.

Elverna Bradshaw said...

Anonymous (1:38) brought up a good point: when the show resumes airing, will the title be "19 Kids and Counting", "20 Kids and Counting" or "21 Kids and Counting"?

(Isn't this past week the first we've heard of them actually using the name Caleb for their first miscarriage?)

hart&sole said...

My 'addiction' to the Duggars will probably end when I have had enough, as it did with the Gosselins. Although I appreciate the suggestion, I am 68, I have emphysema and don't get out much. I don't know what sort of birth control Michelle was using which she felt caused her first miscarriage, but I can tell you, from personal experience, that it wasn't from Ovulin 21. After that, can you just imagine how many children would have been born had I thought, like the Gothardists, that God has so little to do, he was opening and closing my womb?

duggar fan said...

KbA789, I think you may be on to something. I think the Duggars are child "hoarders"! They can not stop having them, nor can they let them go and have their own lives. Even Josh is with them more than on his own.

Reality TV Junkie said...

I guess it's now evident that Michelle's body can no longer sustain a pregnancy after the second trimester.

hannah said...

I wonder if picked the second half of the name in Isreal.

duggar fan said...

I think Jubilee Shalom is a beautiful name. And I do think the family can minister to others by showing their honest reactions and the way the family resolves these conflicts with their beliefs on the television show. But, they must be honest. I am sure there are doubts and re-evaluations going on for the adults and the children. This could be their greatest ministry tool.

Seriously? said...

"I guess it's now evident that Michelle's body can no longer sustain a pregnancy after the second trimester."

*********************************

It would be overly optimistic to give the Duggars credit to comprehend and accept this fact.

It won't be long before we hear the familiar refrain, "we would love to have more chiiiiildren" from these two idiots.

Seriously? said...

"Jubilee Shalom. Really?"

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Why not "Judicious Restraint" instead?

ennvee said...

I'm still kind of confused at the timeline People is giving. Did Michelle miscarry at hom, then go through a memorial service of some, then go to the hospital because she wasn't feeling well? Because the article says they had the service at home, not at the hospital, which is where I'd assume she should have miscarried (probably had to have a D&C done right away to get rid of any remaining tissue out, especially given the fact she'd been walking around with a dead fetus for a at least the last couple of weeks.

Of course, they can't tell the lemming fanbase that; D&C's (most are done for this reason, after a miscarriage) are tantamount to abortions as far as a lot of them are concerned.

So confused, but with the Duggars' PR peeps, that seems to be the norm.

Elvira said...

If I understood it correctly, she miscarried at home last night then felt dizzy or lightheaded and was taken to the hospital. A D&C is not required after a miscarriage. One is performed only if the miscarriage is incomplete and tissue is left behind.

I kind of find having a service at the house immediately and then another one days later to be odd. Wouldn't one service be sufficient?

Melissa said...

My heart goes out to them. With my second pregnancy, I was told that the baby had not developed past the yolk sac, and it took almost 3 weeks before my body started the miscarriage process. The doctor's office gave me one more
day before they were going to do the D & C, and then I had the miscarriage that night.
So, I am glad that it happened relatively quickly for Michelle. I do hope she is ok and recovering alright. That would be so hard to look at that precious little baby. I, too, wish they had named her Julia since Jim Bob really liked that name, and Jubilee seems odd since it definitely wasn't a happy occasion.
As so many others have commented, I do hope this is their last. I truly worry for Michelle's safety, and I think those precious little ones need more of her time. I worry about little Jordyn that she gets lost in the mix.
Some have commented that a lot falls on the girls while Michelle naps, works out, etc., but I also would like to point out that Jim Bob is pretty much a "stay at home dad" at this point thanks to TLC and his real estate. Michelle has even mentioned on the show that she couldn't do everything without all his help at home.
At any rate, my prayers are with them.

hart&sole said...

Yes, the Bateses used Jubliee for one of Kelly's miscarriages. The Bates family also has a Josie and a Jackson, who are older than the Duggars of the same name.

Anonymous said...

TMI. It's only Monday and the news has reported details of the dr appt, circumstances surrounding the unfortunate miscarriage, reactions/responses of Michelle, JimBob and the siblings, the baby's names, the private at-home memorial service, the private outside-the-home memorial service, Michelle at the hospital on Sunday after feeling lightheaded, coming home on Monday, the list goes on. JimBob wrote that the family wanted privacy, yet it seems like some of these comments are written directly for the media right after they happen.

Personally, I think that many of their sweet children are too young to understand all of what is going on and must be confused. I can only imagine what is going on in the minds of the ones who are about eight and under. I feel concerned and very badly for them in their probable bewilderment although I'm sure they are being comforted and reassured by their buddies and other caring adults.

Vera said...

I am sorry for their loss but hope that they take this as a sign that it is time to appreciate the 19 blessings they already have and call it a day.

I am concerned though...their first miscarriage seemed to push them over the edge into the deep end so what is this loss going to do to them? What are they going to blame since they obviously can't blame oral contraceptives?

Reality TV Junkie said...

Do they still have to wait 80 days before trying again?

OhMy91 said...

Its only a matter of time before one of the Duggar kids write a tell all book.....my bet is Josh

Alberta Rose said...

I know women who have suffered second trimester miscarriages but not taken it as a sign their bodies are incapable of sustaining a child. I guess that's why my first child, my sister-in-law's third child, and a friend's fifth child are all special. Different ages but all the same commonality, a symbol of not giving up. Given how much more stronger Michelle's belief is that babies are a blessing from God, I highly doubt this miscarriage will make her wait until she's reached menopause before having sexual relations to avoid a pregnancy.

heavennoseven said...

I thought it bad for any male to show emotion or tears. Jim-Bob did when his dad died and when Josie was born. Why was he not punished.

Elverna Bradshaw said...

Josh will write a book only when the last drop of TLC money has dried up, his car lot isn't doing well, and Anna pees on a stick and he tells her that she is expecting her 8th blessing (and her 30th birthday is the next week). He's going to toe the family/ ATI line til the bitter end (of the money).

Nikki said...

Josh is too ingrained to write a tell-all. My bets are on Jessa or Joy, unless they get beaten down by the Gothard lifestyle before that happens.

ARgirl said...

Here's the obituary that was in our local paper (in this situation, is it typical to cite the weight and length?):

TONTITOWN — Jubilee Shalom Duggar entered into the presence of Jesus Dec. 2, 2011. She was stillborn at 11:46 p.m. on Dec. 11, 2011, weighing 4 oz. and was 6 cm. in length.

She is survived by her parents, Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar; grandma, Mary Duggar; siblings, Josh, Jana, John, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joseph, Josiah, Joy, Jedidiah, Jeremiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Johannah, Jennifer, Jordyn and Josie; sister-in-love, Anna Duggar; niece, Mackynzie; nephew, Michael; and lots of cousins and extended family members.

She is joined in heaven by both of her maternal grandparents, Garrett and Ethel Ruark; and her paternal grandfather, J.L. Duggar.

The Duggar family is so grateful for the outpouring of love shown to them and they will be celebrating Jubilee’s life in a private memorial service with family and friends. Jubilee will be buried at Fairview Memorial Gardens in Fayetteville.

rcadra2 said...

Wow - I have never seen an obituary for a preemie with the weight and length. That is a first for me.

Seriously? said...

"She is joined in heaven by both of her maternal grandparents, Garrett and Ethel Ruark; and her paternal grandfather, J.L. Duggar."

*********************************

Uh... what happened to Jubilee's other sibling who miscarried several decades and siblings ago? You know the one Michelle still manages to eke on-stage tears out about using birth control that Duggars (erroneously) claim 'caused' the miscarriage. No name given to him or her before these halcyon days of TLC filming? Not even a mention in this obit was warranted for miscarriage #1 but this most recent one gets an official name, a funeral, and "People" mag and TLC coverage?

Seriously? said...

"Josh will write a book ..."

*********************************

Josh Duggar will WRITE a book??? LOL. Do we even know with any certainty that Joshie can READ an adult level book? What, with his stellar education with Gothard curricula, a high school grad 'teacher' at the highly ranked School of the Dining Room Table, doubtful that any of the Duggars can independently write a coherent adult-level tome. LOTS of ghost-writer help required, I'm guessing......

Elvira said...

I'm curious how they know think they know the day the fetus expired. Was Michelle feeling movement and then none or was that the day Michelle felt funny?

This is the downside of all the information they are putting out all while wanting their privacy.

Elverna Bradshaw said...

Yeah, why *isn't* Caleb (what they claim they named the baby from the first miscarriage..which by the way they claim don't know if it was male or female) mentioned in that obituary?

And again...what will the title of the series be when they air the new season? I can't wait to see.

Kitten said...

She is survived by her parents, Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar; grandma, Mary Duggar; siblings, Josh, Jana, John, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joseph, Josiah, Joy, Jedidiah, Jeremiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Johannah, Jennifer, Jordyn and Josie; sister-in-love, Anna Duggar; niece, Mackynzie; nephew, Michael; and lots of cousins and extended family members.

Really? I can almost HEAR the unspoken sentence in that paragraph. "That's 19 LIVE kids and counting, and yes, I delivered EVERY one!"


Everybody grieves in their own way, but this is a bit much. 6cm is less than 2.5 inches.

I really, really hope that this shameless use of what should be a private family affair for publicity wakes up the louts at TLC, and not in the way that says "Hey, boy! This is GREAT! Our ratings oughta go through the roof when we televise this! It's even better than a preemie, or a cracked jawbone!"

Yuck, yuck, yuck...

heavennoseven said...

She will be at peace with her brother in heaven.



I do hope that they see this as a sign not to only mourn the loss, but celebrate the birthdays this month and the other healthy and living children.


I have s bad feeling we will get a TLC special early next year.

I can just see it now.

"Duggars In Heaven" Airs Sunday 8/7c

Seriously? said...

"Yeah, why *isn't* Caleb (what they claim they named the baby from the first miscarriage.."

*********************************

"CALEB"???? Isn't that a weak link in the logic chain as far as their whole "J-Names-Only" thing?

Seriously? said...

"sister-in-love, Anna Duggar"

***********************************

Is this more church-speak, like 'God put it on my heart', 'we were fellowshipping', 'we listen with our hearts', 'we purposed it to happen'?

rcadra2 said...

Is there going to be a casket at the funeral? It just doesn't seem right. I'm getting creeped out at reading the height and weight of Jubilee. I mean, she wasn't born alive, so why report the measurements? I'm one for reading the obits, so I've read a lot of them over the years. Never have I seen one that had the measurements of a miscarried fetus. It's sort of half birth announcement/ half obit.

rcadra2 said...

I think I know where they came up with the name Jubilee. Maybe it was from their trip, from England. Queen Elizabeth's Diamond Jubilee is next June. Maybe they were going with Jubilee as she was due aound that date? Just a theory.

Jen said...

"Yeah, why *isn't* Caleb (what they claim they named the baby from the first miscarriage..which by the way they claim don't know if it was male or female) mentioned in that obituary?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Obituaries traditionally only list those that have have death certificates.

Jubilee being labeled a still born would have been issued a birth certificate and death certificate. Those listed as preceding her would have also had birth and death certificates. Caleb was labeled a miscarriage and would not have had a birth or death certificate, thus not mentioned in an obituary.

Jubilee will also be counted in the infant mortality rate of the United States.

hart&sole said...

According to the multiple sites I have checked with, Jubilee is half the size that would be expected at 19 weeks gestation.

ennvee said...

TONTITOWN — Jubilee Shalom Duggar entered into the presence of Jesus Dec. 2, 2011. She was stillborn at 11:46 p.m. on Dec. 11, 2011, weighing 4 oz. and was 6 cm. in length.

==================================

I also question how they know this as the date of fetal expiration, especially given that Michelle was at 19w1d gestation when the death (measured as 16 weeks) occurred. Nine days does not equal the three weeks of lost development.

Given the specificity of information, I have a feeling that Michelle actually made a visit to her doctor when she had those "flu like symptoms" a week after Jill supposedly found a fetal heartbeat and found out THEN that the fetus had died. It's entirely plausible that they kept the appointment last week for the cameras since she hadn't miscarried yet.

Two more items of note: the fetus was "stillborn" at "11:46pm on Dec. 11, 2011." That means she miscarried MONDAY NIGHT. And since Michelle had not reached 20 weeks gestation (and the fetus even less), she officially had a miscarriage, not a stillbirth.

Oh those Duggars, ever spinnin', then contradicting their spin with the next bit of spin. With this info, it means they had the first funeral when the baby was still in utero. To me, that's just a teensy bit squicky. At least wait to have a private service after the fetus has been delivered. The little ones will be traumatized enough by all of this as it is once they're old enough to really understand it.

FWIW, the Duggars would NEVER use Jubilee on a live baby. If Michelle somehow manages to eke out another viable pregnancy and the baby is a girl, Jim Bob will get his Julie since it will more than likely be the last baby his wife will ever deliver alive.

Patrice said...

There is something way too creepy about listing the height and weight of a miscarried fetus. I can't even begin to imagine what they are hoping to accomplish with all the over-publicizing of this event.
And yes, I do know what it is like, and so does about every 3 out of 5 women I know.
I believe the Duggars have really fallen off the deep end. This should be a private family matter, not yet another opportunity for fame-whoring.
If this gets televised, I will personally ask God to "lay it on TLC's hearts" to cancel the show!

Jasmine said...

Duggar fan said:
"And I do think the family can minister to others by showing their honest reactions and the way the family resolves these conflicts with their beliefs on the television show. But, they must be honest. I am sure there are doubts and re-evaluations going on for the adults and the children. This could be their greatest ministry tool."

This. I too believe that if they are honest and tell it all, not just the good stuff, then I think they can surely effectively minister to a lot of people.

Rainbow68 said...

Caleb was the name they gave the second baby. There was only one J baby at the time, so the chain hadn't yet been established. Joshua and Caleb were the only ones of the spies sent out in the Old Testament who came back to report that they believed God would give them the Promised Land. They were the only ones, I believe (maybe their families also?) who lived through the entire forty years of wandering in the wilderness. Maybe that's the name connection. I expect a special on this. I don't expect them to film the baby. I would be shocked if they did. I know they are hurting terribly right now. I just hope they realize that this needs to be her last pregnancy.

imaamy said...

The length and weight seemed small to me for even 16 weeks so I looked it up and what I found was gender wasn't visually determinable til 18 weeks. The sizes given were low for 16 weeks so I wonder if the dates were accurate or if the fetus just didn't grow from the start. Sad.

Elverna Bradshaw said...

Ok, so according to the second People magazine article, Michelle was 19 weeks, 1 day into her pregnancy. From what I've just read on the internet, 20 weeks is the cutoff between stillbirth/ miscarriage, with Jubilee coming up short of that 20 weeks.

My problem is that they seem very insistant to have this classified as a stillbirth so they can have the whole birth/ death certificate thing, and more disturbingly to me, so they can reach their magical number of 20 kids.

The Roaming Commoner said...

This may sound horrible, but I feel much more sympathy for Jubilee Shalom and Josie than I do for their parents.

Anonymous said...

"Jubilee being labeled a still born would have been issued a birth certificate and death certificate. Those listed as preceding her would have also had birth and death certificates. Caleb was labeled a miscarriage and would not have had a birth or death certificate, thus not mentioned in an obituary."




According to Wikipedia (and all of the other sources I looked at,) in the United States, the federal guidelines recommend classifying fetal deaths as stillbirths are those whose birth weight is over 12.5 oz (350g), or those more than 20 weeks gestation, and classifying miscarriages as fetuses under 12.5 oz. and 20 weeks gestation. Jubilee was measured at 16 weeks gestation and weighed 4 ounces.It may benefit their television show to pretend she was a stillborn and Caleb was a miscarriage, but by definition, they were both miscarriages. Miscarriages are very painful, though, and my heart goes out to them.

Anonymous said...

I have the greatest of compassion for these parents who suffered the loss of their very wanted unborn child. In that regard they are like every other family that has suffered a similar tragedy and I respect their right to grieve for "as long as they see fit."

Here's where I have a problem. All the publicity feels to me like a public, evangelical statement about the sanctity of life and I'm offended by that approach. First, I don't need this kind of lesson, especially from people who don't know anything about me, my values or my beliefs. Second, I find it even more offensive that they would use this unfortunate pregnancy to further their ministry which has to be why they are making so many public statements about it, referencing "our child" so many times, and continuing to talk about how God does everything for good. Good? Almost any other person would admit being angry at God at least a little as they come to terms with losing a wanted, cherished child, in this case their 20th child and 10th daughter. I suspect they're sending the message to their children, family and adult friends right now that little Jubilee's life is not in vain because her example to others is that an unborn child is a person. How misguided they are to use this innocent baby's life as a public "example" for their ministry.

The Duggars should grieve as much as they want to for as long as they feel the need to. But please, please, grieve within your own private circle of family and friends just like everyone else does, and don't conduct your ministry through this difficult "walk."

Krissy said...

I'm sorry but the whole naming a fetus, having a funeral and putting a death announcement in the paper is giving me the skeevies.

I understand people have the right to grieve as they choose, but this is just bizarre and extreme.

It was a miscarriage. Sad, yes. Not to downplay the seriousness of it, but I am really starting to think Michelle has some degree of Munchausen's by proxy or something. She seems to secretly delight when tragedy affects her children. First with Josie, then her reaction to Jason's accident and now the attention and sympathy a dead child is bringing her.

For a family claiming to want privacy, they are making way too many media announcements for me to believe they have any sincerity.

DJ said...

Poor Josie. I suspect that by listing Jubilee's date of death as December 11, even though the heartbeat was lost before then, Josie's birthday will always be overshadowed by this. How hard for poor Josie to celebrate her birthday knowing that the next day will bring such sadness to the family. Obviously remembering Jubilee will always be hard. However, I sincerely hope that the Duggars are able to focus on the positive and be grateful for the miracle of Josie on her birthday, rather than focusing on the sadness December 11 will bring. Yet, considering how much they still talk about their first miscarriage, I suspect this won't be the case.

Nikki said...

At the risk of sounding callous, the phrase "You sure know how to keep a series running" keeps going through my mind. Enough is enough. This is rapidly becoming a trainwreck--not just this miscarriage, but everything Duggar, including the severely misguided ministry. I can't help but ask: What's next?

ennvee said...

Oops. 12/11 was Sunday. My bad, everyone. It's finals week and I only know that I had exams on Monday, Tuesday and a big paper is due on Friday, which I know to be the 16th (as it's the last day of the semester).

Still, she miscarried at almost midnight. Did they wake up the kids and have an impromptu service before midnight, or does Sunday night imply anything before you wake up on Monday, even though it's been Monday since 15 minutes after Michelle miscarried?

This pretzel logic is why I took the evening off; this is hurting my brain as much as working on my paper after two 3-hours exams on the morning of the 13th would (so brain-dead I thought was the 12th, but I knew was Tuesday).

Hey, it makes sense to me! And their story is still wonky, even throwing in "late Sunday." From the looks of it, an "early Monday" memorial would have been more accurate.

Patrice said...

Oh those Duggars, ever spinnin', then contradicting their spin with the next bit of spin.
***********************************
From experience, (I miscarried somewhere around the fourth month too,) I asked my doctor and found out that the sex is not really discernible at that point. I think the Duggars put a spin on this too,to make their magical numbers of 10 and 10. Also, not to be morbid but I was told that the fetus starts to deteriorate right away, so I can't imagine what the Duggars are really burying. The whole thing is probably terribly confusing to even the older children who wonder where the "baby" is or what happened to their sibling. I do feel bad for anyone who has to go through it; it takes a long time to recover emotionally from something like this and I don't think Michelle's already challenged mental state will be able to handle it. Shame on Jim Bob for not recognizing her mental state and continuing to impregnate her. Someone tie a knot in it please!

Jen said...

19 weeks is the time when a baby is automatically labeled a still birth. My FIL is a pathologist and he has had to do autopsies at patents request on some of younger gestation. For him to do a cause of death they have to have a death certificate and thus a birth certificate. Then they are labeled a still birth not a miscarriage.

hart&sole said...

ANGRY at GOD? The Duggar family? You were just kidding, right?

susan said...

Ping, ping, ping! My BS meter is pinging!

No one can determine the gender of a four oz miscarried baby that had died weeks before in utero. Seriously. Does anyone really buy this nonsense?

Also, I don't even really believe that Michelle expelled the fetus naturally at home. With her history of c-sections, pre-eclampsia and heavily scarred uterus, there isn't a doctor in the entire US, including Tonitown, Arkansas, who would not take precautions with a 45 year old woman of 19 children, carrying a fetus that had died weeks before. The risk of Michelle dying just by bleeding was huge.

I think the whole thing has reached an entirely new level of bizarre. The funeral and burial was odd to me, but hey...to each his own. But the obit? Over the top. If we get a VSE from this, I'm done watching for good.

concernednana said...

I have great compassion for the Duggar family and am sorry for their loss. However, I do not understand their craving for publicity.
I am afraid Michelle and JimBob are centering so much on the loss, and sadly the publicity, they are missing the day to day loving of each of their children. Jennifer and Jordyn, especially, need the hugs. They also need the love being shown for the miscarried child. My daughter-n-law had a miscarriage at about the same amount of weeks and the baby had quit growing at about 9 weeks. It will always hurt, but they have so many blessings to be thankful for. I also wonder if the miscarried child felt pain. It is a terrible thought, but Josie may have a hard life as it is. It is sad to keep putting babies at risk to feel pain while they are unable to sustain life. I hope I said that right. We have lost 2 to miscarriage but are so thankful for what we have. Neither of my daughter n laws could have afforded a funeral plus they each had another child to care for. They grieved, but still gave to their living children

Clara said...

There's definitely something fishy going on with the length and weight of the baby compared to the supposed age of the baby.

6 cm is only 2.3 inches, that's the length of a 12 week old fetus. But the weight of a 12 week old fetus is only about a half ounce.
4 ounces is about the weight for a 16-17 week old fetus. I guess maybe they meant 6 inches instead of 6 cm, that would correspond to a 18-19 week old fetus.
Gotta love that home scoolin'!

Elvira said...

by listing Jubilee's date of death as December 11, even though the heartbeat was lost before then

I don't think we know for sure when they lost the heartbeat, do we? That's why I found the selection of that date odd. They have only told us the last time Jill heard it from what I've read.

buckeyegirl said...

Just to avoid confusion, Arkansas law is:

20-18-410. Certificate of birth resulting in stillbirth.

(a) As used in this section:

(1) "Certificate of birth resulting in stillbirth" means a birth certificate issued to record the birth of a stillborn child; and

(2) "Stillbirth" means an unintended, intrauterine fetal death occurring in this state after a gestational age of not less than twenty (20) completed weeks.

They cannot have a birth or death certificate. There is not a way to get around this - it is monitored carefully because a stillborn birth certificate can be used to claim a deduction on the next year's tax forms.

imaamy said...

Maybe they are assuming it was a girl to make 10 of each. The gender could be determined with amnio or CVS at an earlier date...but we don't think she had either of those because they would have determined a genetic flaw that could cause fetal death. Everyone is right: getting more and more bizarre.

tulip said...

I have actually seen an "obituary" in our local newspaper for a miscarried baby...for starters I remember it starting off with "In memory of...", and the baby did have a name and I think it was stated that he went to heaven before he could meet his family-about 22 weeks too soon (so I guess the baby must have passed on at about 18 weeks). And then it had a little poem. It was very sweet, and very tasteful. No measurements. No standard obituary text. It was a great example of something very appropriate...just saying.

Elverna Bradshaw said...

Ennvee, you know they didn't have to wake up the kids if all of that happened around midnight, because I'm sure every single one of them was still up and rocking. Didn't they basically admit that they don't go to sleep until 2AM? It's nothing but chaos in that house 24/ 7.

Seriously? said...

"Here's where I have a problem. All the publicity feels to me like a public, evangelical statement about the sanctity of life and I'm offended by that approach. First, I don't need this kind of lesson, especially from people who don't know anything about me, my values or my beliefs. Second, I find it even more offensive that they would use this unfortunate pregnancy to further their ministry which has to be why they are making so many public statements about it, referencing "our child" so many times, and continuing to talk about how God does everything for good.

I suspect they're sending the message to their children, family and adult friends right now that little Jubilee's life is not in vain because her example to others is that an unborn child is a person. How misguided they are to use this innocent baby's life as a public "example" for their ministry.
**********************************

Applauding. This is exactly my take on the Duggars but stated better than I've been able to accomplish.

I wish the Duggars would stop assuming we need THEIR example in order to find ethics. Seems mighty prideful for those who are so nauseating about 'having the heart of a servant'.

It's my opinion that "Duggars" is synonymous with judgement and self righteousness with an industrial dose of pride dumped into the zealous mix.

SPARE ME.

Jen said...

According to Arkansas death certificate flow chart after 20 weeks the hospital has to file a fetal death certificate before 20 weeks gestational parents can request a fetal death certificate. If a fetal death certificate is issued a burial in a cementary is required.

There is a medical person law that says they have to tell all those issued fetal death certificates that they can request a stillbirth certficate

I think it also needs to be stated that the Missing angel bill ( working on birth certificates for stillbirths in every state) points out there is often a difference between a stillbirth certificate and a birth resulting in a stillbirth. The 20-18 -410 is for the birth resulting in stillbirth certificate

stephanie said...

My 2 cents.

As a regular I have not commented but here we go. Why not wait until the baby was at the very least born before announcing to the press that Michelle was carrying a dead baby around in her uterus. Sorry to be so crude but that is exactly what they wanted us to know. Just like always we have TOO MUCH INFORMATION about Michelles uterus/cycles etc. Regarding Grandpa Duggar, the funeral didn't bother me personally as much as seeing how sick he was, his wife feeding him, Jimbob talking to him like he was a small child, kids pushing him around in that chair with his shoe falling off? Remember? How degrading IMO. He really couldn't communicate, who's to say he would want to be on tv in that state? I personally would not want to. Grandpa was just another prop, "look at us taking in our parents". They have their own house, if grandma needed help there are plenty of people to go to her house. Looking back, something fishy about that whole thing. And by fishy I mean $. I personally would not want to be very sick and dying in such chaos. JMO

Carla said...

The baby died weeks ago, but she only "miscarried" a few days after the u/s? I just don't understand why they would lie about her HAVING to do it naturally when clearly she did not. It really makes no difference to me, but I always scratch my head when people lie for silly reasons.

She was induced in a medical setting, as would be reasonable for anyone in this situation but especially so for this high risk pregnancy. Their faithful facade will crumble when the lies come to light.

buckeyegirl said...

Thanks for the additional clarification, Jen. What I was trying to say, not so clearly, is that a birth certificate would not be issued in this situation, and that a "fetal death report" would be issued if requested by the parents. I was always told that this is not exactly the same as an actual death certificate (for example, could not be used the same way that a "regular" certificate might). Perhaps I was told wrong? I am familiar with the flow chart, that is how I always read it.

In any case, it doesn't really matter as the family is going to handle it as they wish with their religious beliefs. I don't really see anything wrong with a service or so on, although I find some of it odd personally.

What I *do* take issue with is the PR that has gone along with this since they found out the very day. Although I'm sure it was probably viewed as hoping to receive "encouragement" and giving "encouragement" (ugh, their overuse of that word drives me crazy), it smacks of wanting to gain publicity and looks bad, and someone should have realized this. If not them, then someone who is close to them. This all should have been private, and details were not warranted,

buckeyegirl said...

Oh, my. There were pictures of the "event" posted online (taken down off the original Facebook site - bad move to put those on there, duh, Cousin Amy, but they can still be found).

Beaming Michelle? Family posed alongside the "casket" and beaming away like a TLC promo pic? Maybe it WAS a TLC promo pic? I guess they were supposed to be "encouraging" to others with their smiling PR faces?

Wow, just...wow.

I'm sorry, I had sympathy for the family, but it is definitely wavering. There is something wrong.

TotallyANanny said...

The Duggars posted pictures of the baby on their website and the pictures were picked up by TMZ.

Not sure if having those pictures public were the right choice.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/12/14/duggar-family-dead-baby/

tulip said...

My guess is the memorial service will be filmed, and featured, in some way, shape or form. The Duggars will probably justify it as coming together with their fans after they have prayed for them, etc., and/or a ministry to those that have went through this same thing suffering the loss of an unborn baby. Why else would they feel the need to specifically make a statement about having "2" services, the private one at home, and then one for "friends and family"? It's almost like they went out of their way to make sure everyone knows they had a "private service".

Anonymous said...

Okay, they have released "photos" of the fetus to the media. I am speechless.

tulip said...

Speaking of filming...a few photos of the memorial, as well as baby's feet now on TMZ? I think I'll have to take a break from commenting...I have no words.

Seriously? said...

"I suspect they're sending the message to their children, family and adult friends right now that little Jubilee's life is not in vain because her example to others is that an unborn child is a person. How misguided they are to use this innocent baby's life as a public "example" for their ministry."
**********************************

I fully agreed with this earlier in the day even BEFORE I saw the bizarre fetal funeral pictures.

Whether for publicity/ratings OR for promotion of their extreme religious agenda, exploiting this situation is classless and obscene.

There is something SO bizarre about posing photo shots with a fetus who died several days or weeks previous to the photo op.

The word 'bizarre' doesn't begin to describe this family.

ncgirl said...

News about the memorial service is on TMZ at

http://www.tmz.com/2011/12/14/duggar-family-dead-baby/#.TulN1_LnuN8

or

http://tinyurl.com/d2yg7re

There is a blurred out picture of the fetal corpse. If you click on it, you can see the feet. The Duggars distributed the picture at the memorial service.

I'm sorry for their loss, but this is getting bizarre.

Elvira said...

They have gone around the bend, headed down the mountain, and are aiming for the freeway out of state. That is southern speak for they are losing their ever-lovin' minds.

That "funeral" looks totally like a TLC staged event. How soulless can a family and a network be?

Vera said...

I sincerely hope they didn't decide that this was a girl so that they could make the even 20 with 10/10. That would be beyond unconsciounable. But it wouldn't surprise me.

I cannot imagine what impact all of this hoopla is having on the younger children who surely don't really understand any of this anyway. It would be nice if they could put aside their "wants" and think about their children's needs but hey, why start now.

I am still slightly hopeful that they will take this as a sign from God that it is time to be grateful for the blessings they have and call it a day but realistically...I doubt that they will.

Elvira said...

Did Jana escape from the family funeral photo with Josie? I must have missed some funeral etiquette because I've never seen a photo like that taken at any funeral I've attended.

Vera said...

What I wonder about is how Michelle didn't know something was wrong beforehand. Surely she should have been feeling movement at this stage, unless her uterus is just so scarred that she no longer can.

Vera said...

Okay, those funeral pics are CREEPY!!! I am totally creeped out by all the smiling faces! Is everything a photo op to them?? And the pics of Jubilee? I can see why they might want a few for themselves by why-oh-why would you feel obligated to share? They really have gone 'round the bend!

Shannon said...

Me and my husband had a stillborn when I was 27 weeks along. First, they would not let me leave the hospital once they discovered our son had passed away. The risk of infection was to great. They started labor immediately. The date of death was listed as the actual day that he was born and not the day they noticed no heartbeat. We also had funeral services but it was at the cemetery itself and we did not pose for a picture. To be honest, I was a complete basket case. I do not see how the whole damn family could be smiling like nothing ever happened.

Winter Wonderland said...

No one can determine the gender of a four oz miscarried baby that had died weeks before in utero. Seriously. Does anyone really buy this nonsense?

_______________

Genitalia develops between 14 and 16 weeks. If this fetus was 19 weeks, then yes, most definitely the physicians would be able to determine the sex through visual examination. Sex can be determined during an ultra-sound at 19-20 weeks. If the death occurred at 18-19 weeks, it would still be possible to know the sex after the fetus was delivered. The problem is not knowing when the fetus died, but if it was still viable at 16 weeks, it is not impossible that the sex could be determined after delivery.

A blood test on the mother can determine the sex at 13 weeks with 90 to 95 percent accuracy; at 20 weeks, with 99 percent accuracy, according to the physician in the family.

Lindy said...

Now that Jim Bob and Michelle have put pics of Jubilee on the internet for all the world to see, I have no desire to see any more of the Duggars on tv. I may even write a letter to TLC and boycott TLC until their show and specials are off the air. Some things should have remained sacred and private and not turned into a publicity stunt. They could have at least left the younger children out of this debacle and let them stay home with Grandma. Their 15 minutes of fame (at least for me) is over. I'll take another commenter's advice and find something else to do when their show comes on and get my "Duggar fix" by reading this blog.

Nikki said...

That picture of the family smiling around the CORPSE OF THEIR DEAD INFANT makes my stomach churn. I feel sick and dirty having looked at those pictures. How the hell is this encouraging?

londonbridges said...

I am too shocked for words. The fetal pics handed out at the memorial service, leaked to the media, and the smiling faces in the family pics are way over the top IMHO.

stephanie said...

Looked at "funeral" photos.
Picture of Michelle and babys hand was ok but her little feet looked really bad. Personal photos and funeral for stillbirth yes, but they are all smiles in a church staged like a rock concert.

Anonymous said...

I think the point the Duggars were trying to get across with releasing the photos was the fact that, that fetus is still their child and its THEIR choice if they want to hold a funeral service for that baby. She was still human and alive at some point.

Nevertheless, I hope they are holding a funeral for the right reasons....

I still help but think TLC has more control over the Duggars then we think. They are probably obligated under contract to allow TLC to do things like these.

imaamy said...

What creeps me out more than the fetal pictures is the pic of all of the family smiling. They don't have to be sobbing but what is to smile about? Also many people here and on other boards said deceased fetal tissue dissolves quickly so I guess the baby hadn't been gone that long.

Krissy said...

I am absolutely DISGUSTED that the Duggars not only published funeral photos, but they published photos of that poor baby and they're standing around smiling like they're at a freaking amusement park.

They have officially sold their souls for fame and money. Nothing is sacred to them. The fact that they couldn't allow poor Jubilee to have any dignity in death makes my blood boil.

I sincerely pray Michelle's baby days are over. I can't imagine this horrific, shameless attention seeking happening again in six months.

buckeyegirl said...

I'm not so sure that they had necessarily intended to release that particular family photo that is now public and kind of disturbing - Amy actually posted those on her Facebook and they were suddenly removed several hours later, but they were already out there. TMZ may have actually purchased them from someone else, if not from her or the family.

It really is a very odd set-up, with the family all smiling like a TLC photo op. Makes me very uncomfortable to look at it.

Josh has an "instagram" photo website, where there is a black and white candid photo of them under the tent at the cemetery and right at the burial. It is very natural and much more emotional. (I'm not posting a link). It gives me hope that at least part of this day was truly for the family to deal and grieve, and not the "show" that the mega church service location appeared to be in some regard.

Cheetah said...

When I heard there were pictures of the baby online, I was afraid of what I might see, but when I looked at the pictures, they didn't seem out of taste to me. All that could be seen were the baby's feet and hands, held in Michelle's hand.

I also can't fault them for smiling in the final picture, as they are considering this a family photograph to hang on their wall (per a supposed family friend that attended the funeral). I'm sure they weren't smiling during the funeral itself.

ncgirl said...

I didn't even see the family photo when I first looked at the site. One of the little girls is covering her eyes. The other is turned away. Mack is covering her ears. Not a very good family portrait.

Even if the Duggars didn't mean for the media to get the pictures, they should know with their fame the pictures can still come out.

I hate coy said...

Graveside:
http://instagr.am/p/ZIl0S/

jenny said...

Before everyone gets hyped up saying they sold the pictures. Perhaps everyone should read the tmz article....it says, " the pictures where posted on a friends TWITTER page, and that's where they got them from.

ennvee said...

Okay, they have released "photos" of the fetus to the media. I am speechless.

=====================================

If the fetus died at 16 weeks and Michelle was checked at 19w1d, it couldn't have been wholly preserved. A nurse who deals with prenatal deaths posted that the sizes of the hands and feet were about right for a 16 weeker (FWIW, the 6 cm. length is measured head to rump, legs aren't measured until later in gestation). The nurse knew the information we all know about the approximate date of death (not the fantasy date the Duggars made up because that was the day Michelle had flu-like symptoms...hey my husband had flu-like symptoms today...maybe he had a miscarriage...he was looking like he'd gained a few lbs. these past few months). ;)

At any rate, the nurse concluded that the pics *might* be the Duggar fetus, but if so, heavily photoshopped (explaining the black and white), or stock photos you can get on any pro-life site.

I strongly believe this entire spectacle was staged wholly to forward their pro-life politics. Had the fetus died during a period of viability, I would have more sympathy, but this circus over a 16 week, non-viable fetus that was MISCARRIED (NOT stillborn) is freakin' ridiculous.

If TLC taped this, shame on them. I think this will drive away the Duggar snarkers and as a bloc, they probably represent 2/3 - 3/4 of their ratings. Heck, half of their fans don't have tv's and watch them on YouTube or a year after the fact on their computer's DVR.

When I'm on official vacation after Friday afternoon, I'll start writing TLC's sponsors to pull out (hee, I'm 12) advertising from the Duggars. If the fundies can get together to slander a great show like All American Muslim, regular Joes can find a company to bombard with requests to steer far away from that hot mess.

I am so disgusted I could scream, but it's 1am, so I'll roll my eyes until they don't ocme back instead.

Delta88 said...

Ok, enough of this ridiculousness. I looked at the pictures of the adult hands with little feet and little hands and NO WAY were those the feet and hands of a 6 oz stillborn at four months. I have seen a video and photos of a stillborn 5month fetus, and the hands and feet were smaller and miscolored. Was Michelle in any of the pictures WITH the hands and feet? I think they just took those off the internet.

This has gone from the macabre to the ridiculous. I don't even necessarily believe that Michelle was pregnant, because the whole time line from supposed loss of heartbeat to fetal delivery makes no sense. The person I mentioned above was forced to labor in the hospital, totally monitored, and she was younger and only had two other kids. I simply don't believe that Michelle was allowed to go home with a three week dead fetus inside of her.

I don't buy any of this. And the pictures graveside. Spare me. The whole thing is a package for mediawhores interested in promoting their show for more money. Reality stars, indeed. Just like the Desperate Housewives.

rcadra2 said...

Oh my gosh - open casket? Truly truly bizarre. And it looked as if the tips of Jubilee's fingers were decomposing. I think I am going to be sick. I what the effect on the little ones will be? They will have nightmares after this.

I am surprised that they let the baby be buried. I almost thought they would have had her preserved and kept her on display, like Evita.

I am done with the Duggars. I can't stand to watch the carnival of freaks any more.

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