Free Discussion July 2012

Please use this for Duggar sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, politics, religion, or personal stories. If the comment is more about you or some other issue than the actual Duggars, please rethink before sending. Thank you!

100 comments:

Jen said...

Jill is a Licenced Lay midwife apprentice

http://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/programsServices/familyHealth/WomensHealth/Documents/LicensedMidwifeApprentices.pdf

Which I take to mean learning to be a midwife. Way to go Jill.

Theresa Fedosky, the lady present at the births of Anna and Josh's children is also listed as a Licensed Lay midwife Apprentice.

Alberta Rose said...

Awesome! I like that Jill quietly went about it, not saying "Look at me! Look at me! Hey TLC camera crew, you need to follow me to class, you need to follow me doing my practicum, Mom and Dad, you need to spew all the details of what I'm doing". They respected her privacy and let her go about it like any other young woman would go about it.

Nancy said...

That just means they are actually doulas. I just looked up Teresa's website and she does not market herself as a lay midwife, but as a doula.

http://www.yourwaterbirth.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=468

Jill isn't even apprenticing under Fedosky, which I find strange since they have had ties for years through her Bradley classes (both elder and younger Duggar couples were shown in her classes on the show and Teresa oversaw both of Anna's births).

There is no proof a midwife attended either birth. The Duggars are BIG on pimping out people/companies that give them free services. There is no mention that a midwife was even there, let alone a name given. Not to mention, there was no more room in that bathroom if Anna, Jill, camera, sound guy and the midwife were already crammed into what appears to be shot from the archway of the bathroom door.

Arkansas should really reconsider their midwifery requirements. No RN needed. Something can go wrong with ANY pregnancy, no matter how young and healthy you are. Remember Michelle? She had pre-ecampsia with Jana/John David when she was younger than Anna.

The only circumstance I can see a licensed midwife attending Anna's births is if they refused to sign a waiver to be on camera, but wouldn't the directions for Anna's delivery be given by the midwife and not the doula, who is more of a support (and I can see her doing this for free to promote her business).

The midwife (if there was one) must have charged them for the Duggars to be mum regarding her presence, if there was one at all. This goes for the doctor on call when Anna had Mack a week or so early and Dr. Sarver was on vacation. The doctor either wasn't going to give them a service gratis, didn't want to appear on camera, or wouldn't disclose his religious views (none of the Duggars' business, really). Or a combination of the three. So in steps Fedosky, who certainly did this for free to drum up business from the local homeschool/homebirth community.

Just my (pretty well educated) opinion.

Nancy said...

Don't get too happy. Jill does not have licensing to practice yet. She may well be the only Duggar to achieve anything, because she will be the one who doesn't marry.

Any other Duggar daughter will have to put away any aspirations she has once she marries and her job is to pop out kids like a Pez dispenser.

Nancy said...

Sorry for the multiple posts, but digging further, it appears Miss Teresa's husband had his medical license revoked, not once, but twice, most recently this past December.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/actions/2011/fr1117_5.htm

Sure, it was after Mike was born, but if Anna is pregnant again before the end of the run of the show, I seriously doubt they'll be using Miss Teresa again; her husband is a documented fraud and drug addict posing as a "Christian" physician. Even the Duggars wouldn't stoop so far to use the wife (it's all her fault in their minds) for any future services, even if they were free.

Betty said...

There appears to be confusion between being allowed to prescribe DEA scheduled drugs and licensure to practice by the state. The doctor is licensed to practice by the state after a suspension, but the DEA is not allowing him to prescribe scheduled drugs.

tulip said...

How do we know TLC didn't film any of Jill's midwifery stuff?-the new season doesn't start til August...they've had, and still have, plenty of time to show off. Jim Bob & Michelle will probably force TLC to film, or put together some kind of montage, just for the critics. Josh will also probably announce he continues to look into political science classes, and run for mayor or something. At any rate, I say good for you Jill!

Jen said...

"Jill isn't even apprenticing under Fedosky, which I find strange...."
______________
Jill could not apprentice under Fedosky as they are both appreticing to be lay midwifes.

Nancy said...

Apologies, I meant to say apprenticing WITH Fedosky. From what I've gleaned from other sources, the Duggars knew of Dr. Fedosky's addiction problems and were surprisingly forgiving (they don't seem to extend that sympathy toward adults who want to buy a beer a couple miles from the compound). Apparently, they have different standards for different people. And they claim not to be judgmental. My foot!

Apparently, he served a 2 year suspension, and can now practice, but cannot prescribe drugs, or at least certain classes of drugs, to patients. My apologies for misreading the legalize. :/

Josh and Anna took Mikey to him for his 1-week checkout. He appears at around the 4:00 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ-BTfw-rxY

Nikki said...

LOL! I read over your comment too fast and read "studying to be lazy wives."

Jill said...

A "lay" midwife "apprentice" sounds like a non-professional helper to me. Really nothing special. Definitely not something one would take classes for, rather it seems that the non-professional helper would just show up and help out. This is just more ridiculousness on the part of the Duggars.

Jen said...

"A "lay" midwife "apprentice" sounds like a non-professional helper to me. Really nothing special. Definitely not something one would take classes for, rather it seems that the non-professional helper would just show up and help out. This is just more ridiculousness on the part of the Duggars."

---------------
Here at the Arkansas defintions
"APPRENTICE LAY MIDWIFE": A person who is granted a permit by the
Division of Health to obtain the practical experience required to apply for a regular
license.

“LAY MIDWIFE": Any person other than a Physician or Certified Nurse Midwife
who shall manage care during the pregnancy of any woman or of her newborn
during the antepartum, intrapartum, or postpartum periods; or who shall advertise
as a midwife by signs, printed cards or otherwise. This definition shall not be
construed to include unplanned services provided under emergency, unplanned
circumstances.
Those defintions and other defintions were from here http://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/aboutADH/RulesRegs/LayMidwifery.pdf

Anonymous said...

Awesome, good for her.

ImaFan said...

Jill was probably "allowed" to start training as a lay midwife because, there is little formal training or recognized professional education in midwifery. That way her parents still have control in that she wont be exposed to anything outside of their beliefs. I get it that a very long time ago women had babies all the time without anyone present let alone a medical professional. That said, many of those babies never made it let alone the mother. The possibility of complications should be respected and not be taken lightly. JMO

Miggy said...

As a lay midwife the Duggar parents can control which births Jill attends. Were she to train as a RN, she would have to train in hospitals where she might have to deliver babies for single mothers. Oh, the horror!

Did I read somewhere that Jana was also attending some of the births? Not as a doula but just to assist with other stuff - bringing cups of tea to the mother, minding older kids?

tulip said...

Waiting around, thought I'd snoop Instagram for any 4th festivities... pic of Josh & Anna-I thought Anna looked pretty good, maybe has lost a little weight, and hardly any makeup-rather impressed, actually-but Josh? Not. Looks like he's gained weight (chik-fil-a pics posted a couple frames below), his face round and puffy. Volleyball game-girls playing in skirts, of course. No fireworks (yet)...lol.

tulip said...

Oh, forgot-Josh posting a pic of Michael-eating-AGAIN...poor Mikey.

Nancy said...

Jill was probably "allowed" to start training as a lay midwife because, there is little formal training or recognized professional education in midwifery. That way her parents still have control in that she wont be exposed to anything outside of their beliefs. I get it that a very long time ago women had babies all the time without anyone present let alone a medical professional. That said, many of those babies never made it let alone the mother. The possibility of complications should be respected and not be taken lightly. JMO

=================================

Excellent post. I looked up the pre-reqs for the lay midwife and it's nothing compared to the training a Certified Nurse Midwife would experience. She just has to attend X number of pre-natals, births, post-partums and take two board exams. She has 3 chances to pass the exams. If she hasn't passed them, she has to start her apprenticeship from square one.

Her supervisor is, not surprisingly, "like-minded." I wonder if Jill could select her mentor, or if she was placed with her at random. If the latter is true, I imagine Jim Bob would have put the brakes on this damage-control career path if the supervisor was Jewish, Muslim, or even worse, an atheist.

I did see some pics of Jill with newborns from the past couple of months and she looks really happy. The captions from the mentor are in the vein of "Praise the Lord."

At any rate, I think Jill will be allowed to pursue this only because she's the one who won't marry, so she will be reasonably free to attend births. There always seems to be a daughter who stays home to take care of the parents in their dotage. Jill, being the biggest kool-aid drinker, seems to be that daughter. The other girls are doing things that are really just marking time until Prince Charming shows up, aside from Jinger who can take pics for her mommy blog (a big fad in the Christian homeschool community). That's an "acceptable" thing for Gothard women to continue after marriage, as long as it doesn't interfere. Not sure if she is allowed to make money off of it though; they seem pretty adamant about the man being the sole breadwinner and it's a huge source of pride with Jim Bob.

Cadence said...

Whether this is a real career or not for Jill, it still is good experience, and gives her a chance to get out by herself more often.

Stephanie said...

Who the heck wants a doctor that can't even prescribe a dang pain pill? Geez, this guys career is O V E R.

Any of you ladies want to have a C-section with no pain killers to take home with you? That's messed up.

Stephanie said...

Texas appearance fees for speaking conference:
Age 6 & up $99.00 or $399.00 for families no matter the size of the family. 5 and younger are FREE
And the eldest Duggar girls will also be speaking.

6 year olds $99? Are they kidding? I can't imagine people spending that much money for this. If I am reading this right is it for some type of food conference or is "food" sometype of symbolism like "chicken soup for the soul"? No way they are speaking at a real food conference and tell people how to make tater tot caserole. No way.

Elsbeth said...

In fairness to the doctor, he'll probably have prescriptions signed by another doctor just like nurse practioners used to do. Sometimes they are even pre-signed.

Wampascat said...

I'm not sure why Jim Bob would proudly consider himself the breadwinner. Most of "his" income is through rental property . The family income comes from the TLC Dog and Pony Show. That wouldn't exist without the "blessings". He really has nothing to be proud of, unless he considers all the time he's spent in horizontal congress with Michelle "work".

summer11 said...

In response to the posts saying that Jill is the one who won't marry... From where is this information coming?

Seriously? said...

"Were she to train as a RN, she would have to train in hospitals where she might have to deliver babies for single mothers"

------------------------------

Agreed. And, OH, the HORROR of single women having babies. Tsk tsk. Right up there with abortion according to Gothardite Duggars.

Perhaps if Anna's midwife had been an RN, the Anna (and poor Michael) might've been spared the toilet birth experience.

Sharla said...

People like to guess or speculate.

tulip said...

What is it with all the over emphasis on natural birthing? Josh & Anna started out (supposedly) planning a hospital birth attended by an MD for Mackynzie-but as Anna went into labor when Dr. Sarver was out of town, it turned into a home birth attended by "Miss Teresa", since they said they didn't want to have any other doctor they didn't know...logic?

Then, with Michael's birth, it was planned at home complete with birthing tub and herbs boiling on the stove. Anna was in total agony while Josh took a snooze in the other room. When they ventured out on their bus for the book tour, they weren't taking any chances-did they have a list of all the local hospitals in the area for each stop? No. But they did have a suitcase packed with plastic, pads and alcohol "just in case". This makes no sense. I understand wanting a "natural birthing experience", but the Duggar approach and all the doula/midwife stuff seems suspiciously reeking of Gothard undertones.

londonbridges said...

I also agree that JimBob can pick and choose the births Jill attends. Unmarried, single pregnant women would not be on that list. However, where is the compassion and caring for the 'sinners'? These moms and babies deserve the same care and compassion as anyone else, IMHO. As pro-lifers, I would think the Gothardites would honour these women for continuing their pregnancies, and help in every way possible.

It seems to me that the Duggars and their 'followers' make judgement calls in many circumstances. JMHO.

Beth Anne said...

Re: "I understand wanting a 'natural birthing experience', but the Duggar approach and all the doula/midwife stuff seems suspiciously reeking of Gothard undertones."

I agree. I am a Christian who has some experience with the fringes of fundamentalist folks, in the form of family members and friends. There is DEFINITELY pressure to conform to what is seen as the Perfect Christian Living model: Marry your first love, have children right away, give birth at home, breastfeed, breastfeed, and breastfeed, homeschool, wear modest clothes, eschew "popular" culture, restrict exposure to those outside your realm, etc. Yet, to me, Christianity is all about a personal relationship with God, not about following a rigid set of rules. I don't think giving birth at home makes one more holy or a better Christian than someone who gives birth at a hospital. Heck, my mom is the sweetest, most sincere and God-loving Christian I know, and she was knocked out cold at the hospital for her deliveries! Plenty of Christians have been educated at public schools and even dated around prior to getting married.

That is my frustration with the Duggars. They make you feel that they have the "right" model by which to live, when, really, all they need is a personal relationship with God.

londonbridges said...

I couldn't agree more, Beth Anne. How often do we hear any of the Duggars share about their personal relationship with God? Perhaps I have just missed that sharing. JMHO

Doug said...

"Then, with Michael's birth, it was planned at home complete with birthing tub and herbs boiling on the stove."

One growing common threat amoung fundies that isn't discussed on the Duggars' show is the interest in all things holistic and homeopathic. Many fundies I know don't see regular medical doctors and that ties right into the natural childbirthing, breastfeeding, no birth control lifestyle. The Duggars aren't fully accepted by many fundies because they violate these principles on many levels. While they do test the waters of fundimentalism, they fail on many of the tenants that a growing number follow, such as:
Healthy, organic eating;
No Make-up;
Farming and/or gardening;
Raising animals;
Sewing and making your own clothes;
Homeschooling in books not on computers;
No vaccinations;
Associating with sinners (have you seen some of the commercials that air during the Duggars show?);
Simple living.

Doug said...

"londonbridges said...
I also agree that JimBob can pick and choose the births Jill attends. Unmarried, single pregnant women would not be on that list. However, where is the compassion and caring for the 'sinners'? These moms and babies deserve the same care and compassion as anyone else, IMHO. As pro-lifers, I would think the Gothardites would honour these women for continuing their pregnancies, and help in every way possible."
Remember, Deanna Duggar was a single mother and Amy would have been shut out of the family if that were the case.

Seriously? said...

" ...fundamentalist folks, in the form of family members and friends. There is DEFINITELY pressure to conform to what is seen as the Perfect Christian Living model: Marry your first love, have children right away, give birth at home, breastfeed, breastfeed, and breastfeed, homeschool, wear modest clothes, eschew "popular" culture, restrict exposure to those outside your realm"

I'd love it if someone could help me understand how this is any different than your basic garden variety cult.

Seems to me a perfect way to maintai absolute control - keep the laity of both genders uneducated (harder for them to question all the religious pretzel logic), keeping women barefoot, pregnant, &, of course, uneducated - how better to ensure patriarchy suvival?

I'm just hoping that at least a few of the Duggarettes have enough brain power to begin questioning and then finding their way OUT of this intellectual and spiritual prison camp into which they were born by parents who consider themselves so very saintly.

tulip said...

Re: Doug's comment-I wondered about those "tenants" as well. It seems like in the very beginning specials they tried to "show" these things (talking about how some of the girls make and sew clothes, showing the kids schooling out of books at the dining room table, while just mentioning the computers in the background.) Have they gotten their vaccines?-remember the chicken pox outbreak?, that vaccine has been on the regular immunization schedule for at least 10 years. The Bates seem like they still do a lot more of these things (the little girls still wearing home-sewn dresses, raising animals, using more books for schooling instead of computers, etc.) Wonder, is shopping at Walmart on the list?...often I see lots of these families there, like it's sacred ground. Must be approved by IBLP.

MandySue said...

IMHO the Duggars feel that they are blessed because they are following the rules, the kids are following the rules. I though how they would do in a real crisis. (I know that having a miscarriage is a crisis) What would happen if something tragic happened to one of the older children? If they had a bad accident while they were all in the big bus.

I have a feeling that their faith is wider than it is deep.

I don't remember who said before but they don't talk about a relationship with God. They don't share their salvation experiences. I don't remember any of them being baptized. They talk about Bible studies but not how it affected them in their daily lives. All the camps and mission trips and not once have we heard "God spoke to me and this is how I am going to change"

These are hallmarks of Christians. Being willing to admit mistakes, accept forgiveness. Apply the Bible to their daily lives.

If the Duggars did this then I might be encourged.

imaamy said...

Many were baptized on the Israel trip - remember the huge rats in the water?? Ewww. Amy was baptized for the first time there but the rest of them had already done so as children.

Nancy said...

Remember, Deanna Duggar was a single mother and Amy would have been shut out of the family if that were the case.

===================================

She may well have been before the show began airing; the Duggars have shared virtually nothing about the sibling relationship before she and Amy were introduced into the show. However, she eventually married the babydaddy with whom she'd had an on and off relationship with for almost 30 years (she turns 50 this year so the math is easy).

I think if she's "right with God" and rectified her "sin" of being an unwed mother, I think Jim Bob would be of the mindset that she's been saved and forgiven, hence okay to associate with.

londonbridges said...

I am referring to actual hands-on care of both mom and baby. Deanna was a single mom long before Jill attended births. Would she (Jill) be allowed to assist a single mother giving birth? I doubt it, but, hey, Duggars, prove me wrong. JMHO.

Nancy said...

Would she (Jill) be allowed to assist a single mother giving birth? I doubt it, but, hey, Duggars, prove me wrong. JMHO.

===================================

My fundie (full-blown after I left the nest) parents took in a few unmarried, pregnant young women and I can say that yes, if the mother-to-be is considered "saved" and living with approved guardians, Jill could attend that birth.

But that's a real outlier in terms of unwed, pregnant women. They either have partners whom they haven't yet (or won't) marry, babydaddy has run off and they're alone, or they have their parents' support. And those parents may well not be Christian. My best friend in life got knocked up at 16 and had her parents' reluctant support as pro-lifers, but Jill wouldn't have been able to attend her son's birth because they're staunchly Catholic. No hope of conversion in that household.

And where the Duggars are concerned, they think they're winning souls when what they're really doing is deceiving the people they want to save. I think this is the fulcrum upon which my own fascination with them is balanced. They're hucksters by trade and I can't stand seeing people who have been told to trust and obey follow these people like sheep to the slaughter.

MandySue said...

They're hucksters by trade and I can't stand seeing people who have been told to trust and obey follow these people like sheep to the slaughter.
-----------------------------
For some reason this reminds me of the Cher song "Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves." Daddy preached during the day and momma danced at night.

I bet they could sell snake oil too.

londonbridges said...

Who makes the decision as to an unmarried pregnant woman's eternal destination? Not all 'approved' guardians are morally sparkling either. Would JimBob be the one making these decisions? It seems to me that someone is judging another, and the teaching of Christ is against judging one another. This is very confusing to me. JMHO

Nancy said...

Looks like we're going to be subjected to a "graduation" ceremony at some point. Joseph, Jinger and two non-Duggars "graduated" from something last night.

Not even sure if the kids are earning GEDs any longer. Jinger's almost 19; I'm hoping she "graduated" from Gothard's photography program, and passed her "fun classes" at College Minus. If she just got her GED, that's just sad, especially with the Duggars bragging how their kids "graduate" at 16. I remember them showing Jill's ceremony on the show, but not taped by TLC, definitely a camcorder. She was either 16 or 17, but graduated when TLC wasn't filming so often.

The Bateses were there as well.

Sad that "United Bates of America" has been confirmed. As Tori Bates would say: YUCK!

I hope they remembered to take down the picture of Nathan Bedford Forrest when TLC came to tape.

ImaFan said...

I'm just wondering, is it normal for home schooled kids (regardless of religious beliefs) to have a big to do when they test out and get their GED? This is going to be mean so avert your eyes, getting your GED does not equal "Graduating"? JMO. I'm a bit irritated by this on the Duggars part.

HistorianMom said...

Some homeschooling families do have their kids test for the GED as part of their education/credentialing; and I have attended a couple of graduation ceremonies where it was mentioned Tgat the graduate had also been awarded a GED. I don't see why that can't be celebrated.

Sweetie Pie said...

Sadly many highschool graduates probably couldn't pass the GED test. So the Duggar children that have taken the GED probably have a reasonable basic education. My husband in a college math prof. and is shocked at what the public school system is putting out.

Nancy said...

Sadly many highschool graduates probably couldn't pass the GED test. So the Duggar children that have taken the GED probably have a reasonable basic education. My husband in a college math prof. and is shocked at what the public school system is putting out.

===================================

That's a harsh indictment on public schools (since it was made without clarification about good vs. bad schools). "At-risk" schools are labeled that for a reason; cities tend to have more renters than homeowners, hence less tax revenue going to schools. There's more, but I just wanted to point out that there are great teachers in those schools who are vilified, in spite of the hard work they are doing to successfully (at least in my district) raise test scores.

Back to the GED, to pass it, one only needs to be at the 9th grade level of material in the subject matter since in most states, a student can drop out without repurcussions at 15 or 16 (in our state, the highest dropout rate occurs between freshman and sophomore years).

It's also not clear WHAT these kids graduated FROM. Did they get GED's? Did Jinger finish her Gothard and College Minus photography courses and CLEP exams? Did Joseph just finish out the Switched on Schoolhouse curriculum? According to the fact sheet linked below, there is no oversight or testing on homeschooled children past the 9yh grade.

Also notable is Point #1: A homeschool consists of children taught by their parent(s) or guardian(s). Jessa is not legally either of those.

http://arkansased.org/about/pdf/schools/hs_fact_050110.pdf

Nancy said...

I should proofread before hitting enter. Apologies for the typo and using the phrase "our state." I was referring to MY state; I have no idea where other posters live and get so used to talking to my peers, obviously in the same state.

FWIW, I know kids who come out of great schools and go to Community Colleges to save two years of big time tuition and some of them aren't performing well either. Responsibility needs to be placed on students and parents as well as teachers, who become more overburdened with each tax cut. Even in the "blue" states, education seems to be the first thing to get the axe when the budget needs to be trimmed.

Since many secular homeschoolers send their kids to community college for subjects the parent doesn't feel qualified to teach (or doesn't have a teacher in their network with whom they can swap subjects), even cream of the crop parents that I've known to homeschool (some former teachers themselves) know when to fold 'em and let someone else teach their kids.

The Duggars and Bateses, with far less education (I'm rather dubious of the the college education of Gil & Kelly; neither seems to be the brightest bulb in the sky), yet they are responsible for what their children are learning and frankly, what they're learning is substandard, not to mention highly biased. No critical thinking skills required. Erin's dabbling in "college" isn't going to change that.

IMO, that's not education either. They're only learning a black and white version of a very gray world. As a student gets into high school and community college (or university), any good educator is going to present both sides of an argument and let the student make up their own minds, based on research and scholarly evidence. Not gonna happen with these families.

Sharla said...

Please remember we aren't here for a referendum on public education or any political discussions unless it directly comes from something said or done by the Duggar or Bates families. Thank you!

Elaine said...

I'm curious why a few a people have said that Jill won't marry. Did I miss something? (Maybe I am just not connecting the dots here :) )

Andrea said...

Finally had the opportunity to watch the movie Courageous. Does anyone else find it a little ironic that the Duggar’s appeared in a film about a father’s commitment to his children when it’s very obvious there is no way Jim Bob is spending any substantial or meaningful amount of time with his own children. Do the math, he has 12 children under the age of 15, even if he was to spend a measly 20 minutes a day with each child that 4 hours. There is absolutely no way he could work, sleep, attend to personal care and still finds 4 hours a day for his children. We all know he puts in at least one hour a day on his hair. What a complete and total waste. I feel so badly for those children, I really do.

Sharla said...

Once again and I'm sorry to those who follow the rules. The blog is not about you, your children, or your neighbors. The blog is about the Duggar family and now the Bates family. It is not about homeschooling in general. It is about homeschooling as regards the Duggar and Bates families or others of their kind. Thank you so much to the people who can see the difference.

Miggy said...

I think Jill is the MOST likely of the girls to get married. Jessa and Jinger are both a bit too spirited / opinionated to make good fundy wives. Jana has all the right character qualities but she has no self confidence which is going to make it hard to meet a man. Jill has the right balance of self-confidence to worship-your-headship to make a perfect wife.

summer11 said...

"I think Jill is the MOST likely of the girls to get married."

I second that. I think Jill is also the one who enjoys taking care of her younger siblings, too. Jessa gets too annoyed (and rightfully so) while teaching her siblings and we don't see Jinger doing too much teaching, cooking, etc. I think the only thing Jinger "enjoys" doing is laundry.. Or should I say helping Grandma Duggar with the laundry.

ennvee said...

The very reason I DON'T think Jill will marry is because Jim Bob allowed her to pursue the midwife path. She can't very well practice if she has 5 little ones tugging at her skirts with no one to help. "Miss Teresa's" kids are likely older (her husband is in his early 50's and she looks to be in her early 40's), so she has more freedom to pursue her profession, even if means traveling 3 counties over to help deliver a baby. With Joy still at home, Jill can deliver babies and by the time they marry Joy off, Hannie will be old enough to care for the younger girls. Jill is essentially expendable at this point and living with her parents makes an even stronger statement in their world than marrying would.

Showing Jessa with the kids (schooling, putting them down for a nap) was a [failed] marketing ploy by the Duggars to farm her out. I bet the rabid fans didn't notice her impatience with the kids in either instance, just that she's soooo willing to take care of her younger siblings.

Jinger? She got a "degree" in photography, most likely, when she "graduated" last weekend. Almost every fundie wife has a blog these days; that's how isolated, like-minded women keep in touch and get tips in child rearing, sewing, etc. She's passed laundry down to Joy; I don't know what she does around the house. She's stated on the show that she doesn't like to cook, you never see a kid on her hip. Time to ship her off.

The one I really worry about is Jana. Her smile never reaches her eyes. She's one who could end up with a guy who bowls over Jim Bob with his qualifications to marry her, but end up being an abuser (that's their typical MO). She really strikes me as a target for abuse. :( I think Jana would blame herself (it's pretty much drummed in the girls from babyhood that everything bad that happens in life derives from female sin).

Hopefully, by the time they get to Joy, Josiah will have made a run for it and the younger ones can have a brighter future. I think Jim Bob and Michelle will become even more distant from their kids as they age and it will be easier for them to get out from under Gothard's clutches.

ennvee said...

Has anyone mentioned the Turn Back the Clock "tea" that Michelle and Beall Phillips (wife of Doug Phillips, founder of Vision Forum Ministries)?

Douggie is a master at revising history to fit into his Christian box (he also put his name on the Titanic dinner held on the 100th anniversary in Branson - the Duggars attended and TLC taped it). $99 to get into the door of the "big" convention, something about Food and Family, another $45 to grovel at Michelle Duggar's feet (she's actually billed before the leader's own wife for this event). More:

http: //www.visionforum .com/news /blogs/doug/2012/07/ 10206/

Vision Forum also puts on that film festival that the Duggars attend in San Antonio that got them hooked up to be extras in "Courageous." As hardcore as Gothard, but in different ways; public school is a big no-no...at least Gothard, in order to gain recruits, allows non-ATI families at some of his events.

Both men are serious megalomaniacs.

Canadian Fan said...

"We all know he (Jim Bob) puts in at least one hour a day on his hair. What a complete and total waste. I feel so badly for those children, I really do."
***********************************
I don't know how it is in the States, but here in Canada I'm pretty sure the old-fashioned aerosol hairspray has been banned. Sometimes people sniff it to get a buzz and a quick high. That might explain Jim Bob's constant cheesy smile.

tulip said...

Someone commented on Josh's Instagram three whole days without a food post, after he took a pic of his bagel sandwich. Guess he got word the attention is off him at the moment, so had to jump back in the game. Thanks Josh, but even though it's a "healthy choice", we know you'll be back at Chick-Fil-A for dinner.

Elvira said...

Michelle is continuing to try to convince the viewers that her children are not completely undeducated.

http://parentables.howstuffworks.com/family-matters/michelle-duggar-importance-apprenticeship.html

Now show us where they are actually doing apprenticeships, Michelle. I think the only valid one may be Jill.

Doug said...

"Now show us where they are actually doing apprenticeships, Michelle. I think the only valid one may be Jill."
Let's see, John David learned towing from Dad (or maybe Mom); Joseph is learning towing from John; Josiah is learning towing and used car sales from John and Josh; the little kids are learning school lessons from Jessa; Jinger is learning photography from the TLC crew; Joy is learning self-centeredness from cousin Amy; Amy is learning the singing business from a John Denver wanna-be; Anna is learning motherin' from Michelle and the other junior-mothers-in-training; Jana is learning???... who knows what!

Mississippi Magnolia said...

My word - He has topped it all! Photos (obviously taken from the back seat of a vehicle) with his two toddlers given free rein in the front seat. Michael is seen standing and grasping the steering wheel with one hand while reaching for other "knobs" with the other. And Mackynzie is doing the same on the other side. All it takes is one split second for an accident to happen! I don't care how close he is.

Stephanie said...

Now Josiah is going to be an accountant? Good luck passing the CPA exam. My husband is a CPA and its no easy test to pass and you have to keep up hours yearly etc.

Duggar language means he is going to try to be a bookkeeper for one of his brothers little rinky dink so-called "businesses". He will never work for someone else because that's the gothard way and no one will hire an uneducated bookkeeper. Every week Michelle? Really? You just know it all and you dig yourself in a hole everytime

Hannah said...

Yes, Josh is stupid. A lot of kids do it when they are being put in the car, and the parent is putting something in the trunk.


They need a lesson in car safety:

Anna leaving her kid in the car(even if the TLC crew may of been there)

Tex ting/Taking Pics.

Letting the kids sit and play in the front seat.

Using second-hand car seats.

Sitting on the drivers lap when on a big bus(Not sure if was a real or just a pic, but I think I saw her doing it).

Driving used cars without knowing what issues or accidents it has been in.

imaamy said...

Instagram: if the car is parked without keys in ignition and brake is on, what is the harm of the kids pretending to drive? I'm serious.

Sheesh said...

"if the car is parked without keys in ignition and brake is on, what is the harm of the kids pretending to drive?"

Possible death is enough for me. Should the kids kick the car into gear and it roll into traffic and be killed, that's a pretty bad outcome.

It's fairly common knowledge that children should not be allowed to think or taught that a car is a toy.

Sherry said...

After reading Michelle's patentable article I can't help but think that she is unaware of the difference between job shadowing and an apprenticeship. One job shadows to learn more about different fields or professions. But an apprenticeship usually comes after one has already studied and gotten a knowledge of a certain profession. The apprenticeship is designed to help them hone their skills. Encouraging your kids to learn about different jobs is great. But it doesn't mean they are apprentices. Jmho

Sharla said...

Some of our readers seem not to know that not all cars are automatic transmission. Standard transmission cars can roll even without the engine running or the key being turned if the emergency brake is not set properly or is knocked loose.

Sharla said...

I can't support potentially endangering children so comments supporting dangerous behavior will not go through.

The U.S. Department of Transportation’s National Highway
Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and the National SAFE
KIDS Campaign work throughout the year to remind parents
and childcare providers of the dangers of leaving children
unattended in motor vehicles.
“During warm weather, temperatures can rapidly rise inside a
vehicle, even it it’s parked in the shade,” said NHTSA
Administrator Jeffrey W. Runge, M.D. “A tragedy can occur
within minutes if children are left in a closed car.”
Dangers to children left unattended in cars include:
􀂃 Heat stroke (hyperthermia);
􀂃 Carbon monoxide poisoning;
􀂃 Runaway vehicles;
􀂃 Carjacking;
􀂃 Child abduction;
􀂃 Trunk entrapment;
􀂃 Self-release from car seat;
􀂃 Emotional trauma.
What To Do
NHTSA and SAFE KIDS recommend following these safety
rules to avoid heat-related injuries or other vehicle dangers:
1. Never leave a child alone in or around a vehicle.
2. Check to make sure all children leave the vehicle when
you reach your destination, particularly when loading and
unloading. Don’t overlook sleeping infants.
3. Place a reminder of your child’s presence where you’ll be
sure to see it before leaving the vehicle (diaper bag next to
your briefcase, baby blanket under your lunch, etc.)
4. Never leave a child in a vehicle with the motor running or
the key in the ignition.
5. Keep car keys away from children at all times.
6. Always lock your car, even at home, and remind your
friends and neighbors to do the same.
7. Teach children not to play in, on or around cars.
8. Keep rear fold-down seats closed to help prevent children
from getting into the trunk from inside the car.

londonbridges said...

Excellent posts, Sharla! I drive a standard vehicle, and I had the experience of it rolling onto the road, even though the emergency brake was engaged. The vehicle was shut off, but the brake didn't hold. This happened in three seconds. Luckily, no person or car was in it's path. Imagine two little tykes in that vehicle at the time. It could have been deadly.


Duggars, please rethink your decisions concerning the safety of your blessings.

BTW, my vehicle had just been serviced at a reputable shop, but I took it back in immediately. The brake needed to be adjusted.

Sharla said...

This one is personal for me also. We, too, had a car begin rolling downhill in our driveway just as I finished fastening our then toddler into the carseat. I was injured jerking the driver's door open as it passed and leaping in and stopping the car. Thankfully I was able to stop it before it got to traffic. It was from mechanical failure also.

londonbridges said...

IMHO the Duggars believe they are rewarded with so many 'blessings'. However, life can change in a heartbeat. Those parents don't always protect their blessings. It makes me so angry and sad that these children are taken for granted. Their welfare and safety should be top priority, nothing less.

Duggars, take our posts to heart and clean up your acts. Cherish and treasure your blessings.

londonbridges said...

Sharla, I am so thankful that even though you were injured, no one else was. I know we share a most terrifying experience. Neither of us would wish it on anyone else, but these things DO happen. Josh reminds me of a child himself many many times. He has never matured as he should have, IMHO. Perhaps he really doesn't understand the seriousness of his judgments concerning his little ones. JMHO

shelley said...

It looks like the car is parked in a parking lot or the edge of an empty parking lot. If this car was hit by another car, the side airbags could go off causing great injury. Or the kids could be thrown through the windshield on an impact. Totally agree that Josh really is childlike. This is very irresponsible.

Rudy Tecat said...

Amy posted a photo on instagram showing her driving with a couple dogs sitting on her lap...another bad move, in my opinion. In an accident, they'd be projectiles!

Betty said...

That looks like her mother driving to me.

tulip said...

Just checked back in, and not at all surprised by the Instagram photos. The Duggars, and Josh with his own family, have never been the picture of safety-the Duggars have not had baby gates on that massive staircase that I've ever seen, their little kids have been shown on film many times goofing around on tall stools and climbing on countertops, as well as playing around on the "catwalk" shoving toys and stuffed animals through the railing and trying to climb on it themselves. Playtime on that trampoline on the Today Show was so irresponsible I couldn't even believe they showed it-they have more than enough money/skill to buy or make a proper covering for all those open springs. And Josh posting that pic of Michael looking totally frightened propped up in that tree still annoys me.

Josh posted "new lettering" on the door to the carlot, and someone commented on the hours and how he could possibly get decent business-open noon til 4 on Saturday? That's when a lot of people have free time to shop for a car, and they're up way earlier then noon to get their start. Closed on Sunday, specified "for worship" (as well as going out to eat and posting on Instagram lol). If he's only going to be open til 6 on weekdays, then starting at 8 or 9 makes much more sense then opening at 10! So much for Josh's business savvy. More proof for me the carlot is the front for the family income as they're really still relying on, and continue to plan for, those TLC paychecks.

Andrea said...

We all know that some of the adult Duggar daughter's attended a ATI event called Journey to the Heart. According to the website here is the cost:

Cost: Total cost covers orientation and training, travel to the Northwoods, housing and meals, and all materials needed.

•ATI Enrolled—$50/day ($500 total)
•Non-ATI Enrolled—$80/day ($800 total)

The funniest thing is most religious events I've attended, if you don't have the money the church mentions attending on scholarship or grant or as charity. Not ATI:

"If the cost seems too great, we encourage you to use this circumstance as a way to begin the Journey early. Begin to pray that if God desires you or your family member to go, He will show you His will by providing the funds."

Can the Duggar’s not understand . . . this is a CULT!! Oh wait, they do, and they're profiting so what the hell. The Dugggar's and Gothard are dangerous.

zebracrossing said...

I HATE the photo that cousin Amy posted on her instagram of her boyfriend with a beer(?) can sticking out the top of his pj pants. People commented how defrauding it is...especially because it is obviously taken in a bedroom. Amy blasts those comments twice. I just don't get their instagrams. I don't get why Amy isn't private if she thinks every comment will be positive. These two Duggar families (JimBob's and Deanna's) are so different. I am not sure I really like either one of them. But I am hooked like a junkie on what on earth they are doing. I think it is the shock factor? hehe!

Doug said...

I have an obscure question... do any of the Duggar girls wear earrings or have pierced ears? I've seen pictures of Anna and Mackynzie both with pierced ears but never on one of the Duggar sisters or Michelle. I know they wear jewlery like rings (purity rings), necklaces (Star-of-David, Christian cross, a bullet on Jill in one of the latest Journey to the Heart photos), and bracelettes, but are they against having pierced ears and other piercings? I've known other Christians who believe piercing to be against the Bible.

tulip said...

That pic Amy posted of her boyfriend, Reed, was more then utterly tasteless-however, not surprised (again) at the Duggar ignorance. IMO, Amy's pics are mostly all useless nonsense, and narcissistic, just like her cousin's. She's constantly taking pics of herself while people will always comment about how pretty she is-and she will go out of her way to respond with an "awww, thanks", etc. It's clear it's all about her. Posting photos of her and Reed and how great he is, love him, etc.-just get married already then! Ugh. Who knows about Reed with the beer. However, it seemed she was trying to put forth some kind of a more mature image lately, and focus with her music "career", however, I have yet to see anything but her primary motive continuing to be drawing attention to, and basking in, the "it's all about me"...yeehaw!

Nancy said...

We all know that some of the adult Duggar daughter's attended a ATI event called Journey to the Heart. According to the website here is the cost:

Cost: Total cost covers orientation and training, travel to the Northwoods, housing and meals, and all materials needed.

•ATI Enrolled—$50/day ($500 total)
•Non-ATI Enrolled—$80/day ($800 total)

The funniest thing is most religious events I've attended, if you don't have the money the church mentions attending on scholarship or grant or as charity. Not ATI:

"If the cost seems too great, we encourage you to use this circumstance as a way to begin the Journey early. Begin to pray that if God desires you or your family member to go, He will show you His will by providing the funds."

Can the Duggar’s not understand . . . this is a CULT!! Oh wait, they do, and they're profiting so what the hell. The Dugggar's and Gothard are dangerous.

================================

While I (and most of the posters on this blog) certainly agree with the sentiment, I think since the Duggars are Gothard Royalty, they haven't had to pay for anything Gothard-related for years and as as result, don't realize how Gothard's manipulation of prayer for money = godly. Jim Bob and Michelle are part of the PROBLEM; they and their daughters have spoken at the ATI conferences. They are essentially second-tier leaders of said cult.

Gil Bates became a keynote speaker when he began to gain noteriety through the Duggars' show, and certainly are comped for conferences and Jouneys, etc., but as their blog illustrates, they're still pretty wet behind the ears and not truly "royalty." The differences being exposurehe. The Duggars have been on TV since 2004; Jim Bob called them "one of the longest reality shows on TV." The Bateses only gained some notice with their first appearance on the show, but not in a very positive light. I remember all anyone could talk about were the clown dresses. They don't have Duggar $$$ either, but by selling out to TLC, they are certainly aspiring to make themselves enough money to feed their horses and not rely on their second oldest son for grocery money.

sandi said...

I've always thought that Jim Bob, as a businessman, knows full well that ATI is nothing more than a mere swindle,(JMO).But I think they chose it because,like all the other families involved,it gives them the level of control they want over their children,even into adulthood.Or rather,I should say,an excuse to exert that level of control over them.So Gothard and his minions take the credit,not the parents.And nothing about it is biblical..so they know they won't find it there..at least not without twisting verses.Again,JMO.

Rudy Tecat said...

Re: Amy's photo of her boyfriend with the beer and his pjs...one of the first comments suggested that he was wearing boxers, and Amy quashed that right away with her pj comment...as if pictures of her boyfriend pulling a beer from his pjs is better. I thought that was pretty funny.

tulip said...

I'm willing to bet the Duggars are even more into all the conferences, Journey to the Heart, etc. now since they probably don't have to pay. If they didn't have the show, they wouldn't be getting freebies, and they probably wouldn't spend money on some of those events.

As far as piercings go, I have wondered about that myself-I have an ultra-conservative friend who does not believe it's appropriate to pierce anything, even ears, but, she does love jewelry, and wears clip-ons, as well as necklaces and bracelets. That being said, I still think it was really strange Josh & Anna took Mackynzie to get her ears pierced as a baby. He used the excuse they just wanted her to get the pain over with while she was little, hoping she probably wouldn't remember it.-what?! Ear piercing-pain? Honestly, it's not the dark ages, it's not THAT painful! They made it sound like some kind of major surgery, not to mention, they were making the decision for her that she NEEDED pierced ears...really weird coming from the "conservative" viewpoint.

sandi said...

Seeing as the Duggars have said they don't eat pork,I would take it to mean that,even though they aren't Jewsih,they still take the bible literally (a bit too so,IMO), and don't do piercings.JMO.

Porcpine Pie said...

Yeah, I liked that pic of Reed and the beer on Amy's instagram. I'm glad she can have fun. I just wondered what Joshie thought when he saw that!

sandi said...

LOL ..I think Amy is being told to get the TLC gravy train up n running..so she is doing so,with a pic of her boyfriend in his bedroom(unless she has deer in hers) in his PJ's wiht a beer.I don't think she is offended by the comments at all..I think she is just pretending to be.JMO.

zebracrossing said...

In regards to the Duggar girls ever getting married....I think it will be tough to find a 'courter' who is really suited seeing that the J-girls are 'ATI Royality'. They have come to enjoy a certain quailty of life (big house, lots of food, better choice of clothing, lots of vehicles to drive....besides all the 'cool' places they get to visit because of the TLC show). Most ATI families are struggling financially (Bates are example....look how they lived before Duggarland showed up). Most ATI families have lots of children and one income. It is hard now adays for regular families with two or three children to make it...on TWO salaries. They will obviously (if they stay in the compound) have to marry another ATI like-minded young (old?) man. I think the Duggar guys have a better deal. A young lady would be stepping UP to marry a Duggar lad. I think the whole ATI mindset is to repopulate with as many likeminded homeschooling fundies as possible. A lot of these ATI families DO marry off young. The Duggars are letting their fellow ATIers down since their daughters are getting older and older...limiting their time for producing babies. Maybe it is a good thing for these girls. At least they won't be matched with someone they must LEARN to love and serve. It also gives them a chance to possibly realize that they have other options besides the ATI circle for husbands....or even a career and a life without marrying if that is what they want. I guess it really surprises me that Jana, Jill and Jessa are still single. I am glad though that their parents haven't compromised....maybe they really have their best in mind....but then again...they need them around for the childcare, housekeeping. Sigh...Oh, Duggars....you are so confusing.

imaamy said...

Does anyone else find it annoying how Josh captions almost all photos of his kids with "lil" helper or "lil man is working with tools?" Sexist and just too cutesie. There was someone else on a message board who used that word over and over and I found it irksome there too.

Rudy Tecat said...

Well, the Duggar girls not marrying can't be blamed on a lack of socializing. I mean, they spend maybe a week at the home school conference each year, and while they're busy babysitting other people's kids and playing in the orchestra, they must some time to themselves (right!). And, then there's the broomball at the ice rink...they must meet a lot of bachelors there (right!). And, then there's the Bates family coming to see them. Certainly they're meeting more people (and a wider variety of people) in their own little Duggar lives than if they had attended a big public school, had the opportunity to go to college, and then had the opportunity to work outside the house (and even live on their own).

nana sew dear said...

The comments about the basic tennants of the fundies (home birth, garden, sewing, etc.) had me chuckling. My husband and I shared most of those when we were planning the home delivery of our first child in 1977. Were we the dinosaurs of the Gothardites? No. We were liberal, counter -culture, granola munchin',tree hugging, hippies. The big difference is we were and still are passionate about education.

Does anyone know what the Duggars are doing now that Santorum is not a viable candidate? I can't see them endorsing a Morman.

tulip said...

Jim Bob made a statement right after Santorum dropped out declaring they WILL be supporting Romney-he said something along the lines of Romney being the Republican candidate and they will help make sure he holds true to those conservative values. About that same time while still on the campaign trail with Santorum, Josh posted a pic somewhere Mormon related and commented something about "nice people"...

Hannah said...

Josh took a picture of his car at the car wash.


How come he doesn`t have a sibling do it for free. Why take a picture of it. You should not use your phone even in a car wash. what if nothing goes wrong?

tulip said...

Looks like Josh is advertising the car wash-I think Boomerang Car Wash is a family business owned by friends of theirs. Amy also posted a pic of a Boomerang gift card several weeks ago. Surprised they're actually acknowledging someone else, using their "fame" to help advertise? (maybe they got cards for free washes and felt obligated, lol.)

sandi said...

>Does anyone know what the Duggars are doing now that Santorum is not a viable candidate? I can't see them endorsing a Morman.

---------------------------------

they seem t0 be just staying silent on the matter,however,I can't see them ever voting for any liberals,so,that said,(IMO),they will likley be voting straight party ticket conservative,which is probably, (no kidding,huh) what they do anyway.They'll just keep it silent,and not endorse anyone.JMO.

Doug said...

WOW! I wonder if the Duggars will stop selling their books, DVDs, and individual TV episodes on Amazon.com now that Jeff Bezos and his wife have made an historic donation in support of gay marriage?

http://news.yahoo.com/amazons-jeff-bezos-wife-2-5-million-donation-005341901.html

sandi said...

I haven't seen the Duggars stop doing anaything that nets them a paycheck.JMO.

Hannah said...

Josh Duggar ‏@joshduggar
I treat everyone with honor, dignity & respect - regardless of belief, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender & I stand with #Chickfila!

Beth Anne said...

Re: Josh Duggar ‏@joshduggar
I treat everyone with honor, dignity & respect...

Oh, where do I begin with this one? I, too, stand with Chick Fil A, on the grounds of free speech and that the government has no right to threaten shutting down a business or denying permits due to the owner's personal beliefs (and because there's no discrimination relative to hiring employees or serving customers). HOWEVER, for Josh to puff himself up as the role model for tolerance and kindness is ridiculous!

Must we remind him of Catholics = wrong beliefs, making fun of the short bus, treating his own son unkindly by posting a picture of Michael being terrified up in the tree, etc? And, his arrogant demeanor in just about every faction of his life projects an air that is OPPOSITE of showing dignity and respect to others. One can believe in traditional marriage without coming across as a total arrogant snot about it, and Josh seems to be the latter.

tulip said...

Chik-fil-a is just the beginning-now that the election is only about 100 days away, Josh will be coming out in full force touting all his political views and using Instagram to do it. Just in the past few days, he's posted pics of several different political items, not really commenting much of anything, but rather using the picture to speak his words for him. As soon as there's a couple comments challenging his line of thinking, it's on to the next picture. Josh can dish it out all day long, but definitely can't stand the heat.

Sharla said...

I am not sending out personal emails unless they are specifically about the blog. I'm sorry it any spoofed emails are being used.