Free Discussion September 2010

Please use this for Duggar sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, or personal stories. If you wish to discuss other TLC shows, please visit TLCwithoutpity.blogspot.com. Thank you!

306 comments:

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Anonymous said...

I just wanted to chime in on the thought that Amy wasn't around before and has only come around the family to be one TV.

I've been Facebook friends with Amy for the last couple seasons, and she's said quite a few things about hanging out with her cousins. Many of those times are never mentioned on TV. She's also posted pictures from years past that were never shown on TV, so I believe she's always been around and is around regularly.

I would also say about 85% or more of Amy's posts are related to God and her Christian faith. She has never pretended to be anyone she is not, in my opinion. Her Facebook has 5,000 friends who can see it all, and she has pictures of her going out with friends as well as pictures of herself with her cousins, and her posts make her sound like a well rounded person.

Like another person said, she's not pretending to be like the Duggars - she is a Duggar, yet she's different.

Also, for what it's worth, Amy is 23. Just saying, because I've seen quite a few posts in other threads from people wondering if she is legally old enough to drink.

msrylee said...

Was a reason given on the show as to why Josh and Anna weren't present for the home-coming? Just curious.

Anonymous said...

If this were simply a question of money, it seems likely that the children could qualify for all sorts of assistance, given their rather unusual situation, but as far as I can gather, Mr. and Mrs. Duggar seem to believe that even a very religious school is too "dangerous". Why?
--------------------------------

I am pretty sure the reason they are "isolationist" regarding education or contact with the outside world, is because they follow the teachings of a certain religious leader. If you are curious, you can do an internet search regarding Bill Gothard and his belief system.

The reason they don't want too much interaction, even with a conservative religious private school, is that open discussion is allowed, other ideas and beliefs will be discussed, and rational thinking is encouraged. Because this would serve to encourage young people to think for themselves rather than blindly obey and never question, it is greatly discouraged.

Anonymous said...

I think the Duggars' position on college education comes primarily from their affiliations with ATI. I do know that Gothard teaches to avoid colleges, and they seem to follow most of his teachings pretty closely.

It could also be reflective of JimBob and Michelle's own values they seem to have had since early in their marriage. Neither of them went to college, preferring instead to work in real estate, owning businesses, etc. I think that this might be the bigger influence here, since ATI does offer "higher" education through their own resources, but none of the Duggar kids have done any of those things, to my knowledge anyway.

Doesn’tAddUpAsUsual said...

I have asked that question in many posts without much reply, but this blog covered it here @ on Q #3: http://duggarswithoutpity.blogspot.com/2008/09/questions-and-answers.html. They are Gothard followers and Gothard says that. If something goes against the belief in God/Jesus (like education at a liberal college), then don't participate. Still – I contend they should look into conservative Christian colleges or at least trade school (trade school is purely technical) to equip their kids to support families of their own (let alone personal development). Even Anna, who has a teaching degree, works for Josh. Why?!

I also have to admit I think this school of thought is EXTREMELY hypocritical, as it does not allow for followers to be trained for (or train others) in professions that it, conveniently enough, does not preclude them from benefiting from (they can see doctors, but they can’t become one? – way to profit from education/knowledge you won’t allow your own people to contribute to). Not a fan.

Kitten said...

Except that Gothard's own website pushes a number of higher ed and vocational training options, such the Verity Institute, a "biblically-directed" school that allows students to get college degrees through a joint process with accredited colleges without having to actually attend those dens of iniquity. Or Oak Brook, the online "law school" that supposedly enables graduates to take the California bar.
http://iblp.org/iblp/about/whatwedo/education/

So I guess if the money is going in Bill's pocket, he's OK with higher ed. Therefore, it would be the Duggars who are discouraging (or NOT ENCOURAGING, if you prefer) higher ed.

Anonymous said...

Kitten said:
So I guess if the money is going in Bill's pocket, he's OK with higher ed. Therefore, it would be the Duggars who are discouraging (or NOT ENCOURAGING, if you prefer) higher ed.
----------------------

Put in that context, I feel better about the situation. If their only choice for "higher" education would have the consequence of lining Gothard's pockets even more, then I suppose I'd rather they didn't get that education.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

Does anyone know if Michelle's mother in law is living there permanantly? Did she sell her house she lived in when her husband was alive?

Cyn said...

Put in that context, I feel better about the situation. If their only choice for "higher" education would have the consequence of lining Gothard's pockets even more, then I suppose I'd rather they didn't get that education.
*******************

It's where Anna got her teaching degree, if you want to call it that, she can teach SUNDAY SCHOOL at least that's what they said when they talked about her teaching degree.

That's Not a Degree said...

If Jill gets any sort of "nursing" education, it will be through the Gothard on-line thing, but it will not train her to work in a clinic, hospital, etc. Of course, Gothard and ATI only approve "home-based" businesses and for women, home=based midwifery (with no medical training by medical professionals, of course). Of course, Anna delivered at home with no medical professional present, and Jill, because she has been present at a couple of births now, probably has the skills to deliver someone else's baby. Not.

Michelle and Jim Bob would have lost their micropreemie had they allowed anyone with ATI "medical" or "nursing" training to care for her. Josie would have died. So, the hypocrites will allow well trained medical professionals to care for their children, but will not allow their children to become a well trained medical professional who could care for others.

It's all a little sick and sad.

Anonymous said...

If the Duggar children want to further their education, they would most likely have to score appropriately on a college entrance exam like an ACT or SAT.
They would also have to have some proof of a high school education like a G.E.D. or some other testing. Maybe Michelle's teaching skills are not that great.
I'm not sure the Duggar children spend that much time at their studies anyway. In the beginning, they were all going off with Jim Bob to build their own house, and then TLC came into finish the house. Then they spent time raising their siblings and going off on trips to be filmed. I am glad these kids did get to see some of the outside world. But how much of their life is educational.

I'm afraid the Duggar children just don't have the education background to get into college. They could also attend college on-line, but that isn't happening either.

The Duggar parents are too self-absorbed to really think about what their children really need from them.

Anonymous said...

So, someone please explain to me how they're evangelically "changing the world" if they refuse to get in it?

At what point to they trust their own kids as grown enough for their belief system to NOT crumble in the "real world"?

And how, exactly, do they expect any of these kids to provide for families of their own? TV shows on TLC for all????

Anonymous said...

How many tree cutting services, and tow truck or used car businesses does a community need? What kind of jobs will Joseph and Josiah get, that will be good enough to support a family? And where will these boys live? Josh got the grandparents' house!

Anonymous said...

"So, the hypocrites will allow well trained medical professionals to care for their children, but will not allow their children to become a well trained medical professional who could care for others."

No kidding! I fully agree! When it benefits YOU, you tolerate others' principles, but you supposedly "boycott" it when it's your turn to contribute? Gimme a break!

They breed and train and neglect the part about raising and educating. Talk about stiffling (not criminal but not ideal, either).

Their "way" stunts emotional growth (can anyone see any "relationships" in that house?), social growth (how can they learn to deal and "resist" the world's issues if they don't ever see it?), intellectual growth (no education past the most basic G.E.D. standards, and no higher ed / trade school), personal growth (no one seems to have individual talents/hobbies/preferences/opinions, even in the confines of their principles, and no one can earn a living!), and even physical growth (their nutrition isn't exactly perfect, they go to bed waaaaaaaay too late - Duggar time???, and the girls aren't allowed to do anything physical past age 5 - like running!). Of course, none of this is better/worse than many, but I wouldn't call it logical, necessary, wholesome, or even holy. It's a mess. They mean well and none of it is dangerous, but it's an illogical mess.

Cyn said...

How many tree cutting services, and tow truck or used car businesses does a community need? What kind of jobs will Joseph and Josiah get, that will be good enough to support a family? And where will these boys live? Josh got the grandparents' house!
******************************

Josh got one of the grandparents RENTAL properties that had been abandoned and needed repairs to make it livable. That according to what was said on the show Josh PAID for, and did the repairs on. I'm quite sure Josh got it at a discount, but we don't know the exact financials on it.

As for the boys, they can drive heavy equipment and know how to use them, they know construction, one of them (not sure which) can fix dang near anything on the property makes him if nothing else an excellent handy man.

Finding a GOOD, and HONEST handyman is almost impossible to do, and they can make some serious money doing it. Are they going to make 250K a year? Probably not the first year, but that doesn't stop it from happening later on because they have built a business from the ground up...

Color me a Disbeliever said...

I sincerely doubt that any Duggar will be earning $250K doing construction in Arkansas. Color me a disbeliever!

I live in an affluent area where contractors are paid well. Some do make six figures. However, the recession has about killed their businesses, and they are really hurting these days. Many are doing "handyman" work, as opposed to beautiful, extensive additions or rebuilds. But a lot of these guys have other training and education too, in design, architecture, etc.

They were not schooled at the SOTDRT, and chances are that the Duggar boys cannot sustain a living doing construction, since they don't even know the first thing about safety, much less aesthetics or design. Remember Jim Bob's drawing of the Bates' addition? Hardly a reputable architectural drawing. In fact, my 10 year old might do a better job.

Cyn said...

I sincerely doubt that any Duggar will be earning $250K doing construction in Arkansas.
*******************************
I would have seriously doubted that the a used car lot that had a house with children living in it, run mostly by a woman who knew nothing about cars, that had to wait for the husband to come home from other menial jobs, to make the sales would make enough to pay for the land, and the "tinker toy" house they built... but it did.

And again I did state they wouldn't START that way, but being the boss of a growing business it's not impossible, history is FULL of these exact type of people. No formal training of any kind, no college education, and they are / became millionaires... amazing how that works. With a little bit of luck, a lot of failures, and hard hard work.

MandySue said...

If they did construction or handy man work they would HAVE to know how to read and understand beyond an 8th grade level They would HAVE to be able to comprehend what they read and be be able to translate that into the real world. They HAVE to know beyond basic math.

And **gasp** they will HAVE to work in the big bad sinful world for sinful folk. You have to be able to deal with different people and different cultures when you depend on them for your living. What happens when a single woman wants a deck built and they don't have a sister yelling "NIKE" at them?

Speaking of NIKE how so the boys feel knowing they are so weak they can't even look at a woman? Geez they are setting their kids up for a life of failure.

Anonymous said...

I have many cousins with no formal education beyond high school. All have held jobs and put food on the table. However, the economics of the past 30 years are quite different from the economic opportunities to today and tomorrow.

Today to be an auto mechanic requires a reading level at the equivalent of the 16th grade and an understanding of computers.

In addition, given the number of boys in the Duggar family, there are only so many businesses they can start in an area that is not particularly wealthy. What happens to the younger boys, who will have little education, who will be required to have their own businesses, while living in a rural area? What can they do to earn their living and support a family?

Anonymous said...

"What happens to the younger boys, who will have little education, who will be required to have their own businesses, while living in a rural area? What can they do to earn their living and support a family?"


They'll do what the rest of us have - figure it out on their own. If it requires going to school or college, they'll have to do that. I'm not that worried about the Duggar kids, they have a strong work ethic and good sense, and have been taught the principles of frugality and debt-free living. I can think of a lot of other people I know personally who don't have these qualities that I worry about.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know if Gil Bates is related to Tommy Bates, the minister? www.tommybates.com. They look a lot alike.

Snap! said...

Every child has a right to an education. Doesn't Arkansas have standards for homeschooled children?Where I live children have to be educated from age 6 to 16. Think of Joseph- he is 15. Everytime we see him he is working. If he is in school- who taught him while he was at home with John David? I have a 15 year old son. He is excited about his last 2 yrs of high school and already thinking about University. Does Joseph have any options? If you say you homeschool your kids- then do it!!

susan said...

For sure I don't think the Duggars are qualified for any financial assistance for schooling. They make entertainers salaries for their many shows a year on TLC.

Although they claim they do the show to spread their faith, they make a lot of money as well. Nothing wrong with that but I think it's disingenuous if they don't admit they are gaining a lucrative business income as well.

Does anyone else notice they never mention the large amount of money the show brings in? It's like the elephant in the living room - right there but never mentioned.

Bubbles said...

The following is a link to an online school that uses the same curriculum that the Duggars use (Switched on Schoolhouse). As you can see, there are many students, including Mitchel Musso who plays Oliver on Disney's Hannah Montana, that have been educated with this system.

The Duggars use the CD-ROM based version of the curriculum rather than the online version, probably because it's less expensive and they can re-use the CDs for other children.

My son is currently enrolled in an online high school this year. It seems that a lot of the people who comment here don't think you can get a good education if you are homeschooled or that the education doesn't go above an 8th grade level. Our district's largest "elementary" school is the Virtual school our district offers.

I recommend that people who don't know much about it take a look at the Switched On Schoolhouse website, because you will see that their curriculum isn't as simple as you might think.

Here's the link I mentioned above:
http://www.aoacademy.com/testimonials.php

Who needs Education? said...

They might make a million bucks a year from exploiting their children on TV. I guess that makes is worthwhile. I wouldn't sell out my family's privacy for two million, but then again, I am just a jeans wearin' mom with a masters degree.

There isn't a speck of "homeschooling" happening in that house. Truth is, as I read elsewhere, having the equivalent of a third grade education is actually Gothard's goal, as it keeps the sheep in line. Knowing too much makes people question things, it is better to keep 'em ignorant.

Sad, because there is some actual intelligence in that group...Hannie...Josiah...that will never be nurtured. The level of ignorance among the rest is pretty astonishing.

Anonymous said...

I agree. This is a reality TV show. A big part of the Duggar's true reality is the fact of their LARGE increase of income over the past few years and it's impact on the family. It's no secret - viewers know they make lots of money. Is this a NIKE issue for viewers - a major reality that's hidden from sight?

Anonymous said...

The newest People magazine contains letters about the Duggars' cover story a few weeks ago. Every letter published is negative. In the past, comments were published from both fans and critics. Why the change, I wonder? Were all the letters received overwhelmingly negative?
Have even hardcore fans had enough?

Anonymous said...

One thing that upsets me is in the video where they denied following the quiverfull movement, JimBob says he believes in treating his wife like a queen. I can't believe it! What queen wears used shoes? I mean how could he do that to her?

Kitten said...

I would have seriously doubted that the a used car lot...would make enough to pay for the land, and the "tinker toy" house they built... but it did.

Uh, no, it DIDN'T. TLC paid for the lot, the house, and all of Mackynzie's brand-new, never-worn-before outfits. That's what I and many others will believe unless and until Josh is willing to ante up his tax returns and prove where his income comes from. And we know that won't happen, so you believe what you want, but I'll go with the "walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck" school of thought here.

Cyn said...

I wasn't talking about Josh, I was talking about JimBob...

Used car sales are what ended up helping to buy the the land the chicken hatchery buildings sat on. They renovated the buildings and now rent them as large storage units, that is on part of the 30 acres their large house resides on. I think it's also the same land they have the cell tower on. With the rental income, and I assume more used car sales, auctions buys and reselling, insurance sales, the convenience store, and the like they had the money to buy the "tinker toy" project that JimBoy called the house. And pay cash for the sometimes daily plan changes on JimBob, and Michelle's part. TLC came in at the end and hurried them along and did some of the finish work.

jonandkatewho? said...

So one Duggar boy can be a "handyman". That's nice, but what are the rest of those kids going to do to earn a living?

I don't think these kids could get into a college with only what Michelle taught them at the dining room table. I would bet that some of the younger kids might even express a desire to get more education or become something other than what they see their older siblings become. What are Michelle and Jim Bob going to tell them or say to them if/when they express a desire to have a real life? I just hope they are prepared for this.

I agree with the poster who said this was a mess. It is.

JFS in IL said...

If ignorance is bliss, the Duggar kids must be very happy.

The older girls do not look overly content, though -

I feel so sorry for that baby girl who came just before Josie. She in effect "lost" her mom, and an older sister just isn't the same thing. That poor baby!

I had to leave my ten-month-old, still nursing, daughter when i was hospitalized for five days with pneumonia. The look of sheer joy on that child's face when I came home I will never forget! She was too young to understand where I had gone and that I would return. I can only imagine how much worse it has been for little Duggar whatshername!

JFS in IL said...

I would like to add another thought - we always saw Michelle nursing baby whatshername under a pink modesty cover-up. Did she always use that thing? Did she never make eye contact and bond while nursing? At least these past months bottle feeding Josie she has had eye contact and may have more bonding with Josie than any of the other young Duggars. Just a thought. If Michelle gets pregnant again, Josie might be harder to hand off to an older sister than the other babies were.

Swissmiss said...

The Duggar family spent about 3 years working on their current home. For a while, the older kids would get a tool (used, of course) on their birthday they could use in the construction. Finally either TLC or the production company stepped in and paid about $25000 to get the house finished. I believe they donated much of the furnishings and even had a professional decorator come in.

I do wonder why there doesn't seem to be any playroom for the kids. Why are they running around the kitchen, sitting on the counters, etc.? Seems dangerous to me.

faline said...

The Duggars have a huge gameroom to play in! They have a pool table and arcade games in it(Galaga). The little kids are also lucky enough to have an indoor slide and a rock climbing wall
in the house.

I agree they shouldn't be climbing on the counters,though.

Anonymous said...

I've always wondered when they were building that huge house, why they didn't include a room dedicated as a class room. They certainly have the space. I know several people who have homeschooled their children in much smaller homes, and they found a way to create a classroom specific for teaching time. One family converted their garage; another built an addition to their home, and another turned the den into a classroom, and the family gathered in the living room or kitchen for family time instead of the den after that.

Why didn't the Duggars do something like this?

And I agree - those boy Duggars are really going to have a tough time earning more than subsistence income with their sad little education. What will help them is that they are known in their circle - so they'll be hired by friends. But how many friends can support you regularly to provide a stable income? They are also known locally apparently, and I guess they are liked -- so if they are good craftsmen, they should have a good shot at getting hired by local people. But how wealthy is their community? How large a pool do they have for finding customers for whatever small business they decide to run?

They would have to go to a trade school to become a plumber, electrician, auto mechanic or journeyman of any kind -- and I don't see them doing that under the current regime. Why would parents purposely limit their children's opportunities in this fashion? I can only think that they want the children to remain dependent upon them, keep them tied to dad's pursestrings.

The Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth said...

Not everyone needs to go to college, but every parent ought to encourage their children to find their own calling, whether it is a professional degree, a trade like plumbing, or nursing, or art or whatever.

There are a lot of trades in which the Duggar kids could become trained, so that they could be equipped for jobs for this millenium. Unfortunately, I see that Jim Bob is encouraging his kids to be undereducated and undertrained. Hopefully, many of those 19 or 20 kids won't be living on the dole one day. I wouldn't doubt it though.

Anonymous said...

The Duggars do have a playroom. It is a large rec room that was built into their new home. From pics you can tell it has a slide, a climbing wall, foosball table, pool table, things like that. We often see the young ones though playing in that huge open area with their toys. Even though we had a playroom, when my kids were little they always wanted to play in the main living areas instead. I think they felt "alone" playing in the playroom, they always wanted to be where the rest of the family was. I imagine the Duggar kids are the same way. Messy, yes. Dangerous, no. In fact, it's easier to keep a watch on the little ones when they're in the main living areas rather than away in a room where you can't see them.

Allison said...

Most of the boys are still too young to really be ready to pick their careers. Josh and John David have their own businesses, but Joseph is only 15 so it's still a few years before he would be ready to choose technical training.

I agree that none of the girls look like they'll be going anywhere. Jana, Jill and Jessa are all at college-age level and haven't gone anywhere. Maybe this year it will change for Jessa or Jinger, who seem a bit more independent than Jana and certainly more than Jill.

As far as visually seeing education, there are 2 things I recall. In one interview I read, Michelle said the camera crew come by the house 2 days a week. TWO. Who knows what happens the rest of the week? Maybe the children are in the playroom the rest of the week, but if there are cameras in the kitchen with Michelle, it makes sense that children would want to be "where the action is." During the chicken pox episode, it looked like they were only there 1 day out of what I imagine was a lengthy illness. I also remember in the episode where Jim's daughters come to visit and one of the daughters said the Duggars are in school all year long. It is possible that Joseph and the older girls worked all year long and now have their GEDs, which means they are open now to tutoring and working. Of course, Michelle hasn't said any of this, but I do know plenty of child actors who have pursued home schooling and "graduated" at a very young age.

Most of this is just idle speculation by all of us. None of us really know how far anyone has advanced in their education or what real conversations are happening behind the scenes.

Kitten said...

Cyn, I misunderstood your first post, but I still politely disagree. It wasn't "just" a used car lot that started the "Duggar empire," but a used car lot, towing business, store clerk, Bible selling, ad infinitem. Both Michelle and JimBob say they worked pretty much around the clock for quite a few years. I remember Michelle talking about she would sometimes have to take the tow truck out to a call if Jim Bob was tied up with another job. And don't forget, during those years, they were using the dreaded birth control so they could manage that lifestyle without having children every 15 months. By both of them working like dogs, they were able to save up quite a bit to get started. But they didn't just buy that 20-acre spread in the first go-round. They "traded up" as they went along. On the other hand, once they decided to stop using birth control, and Michelle had to spend her time being pregnant and raising more and more children, they didn't advance quite as quickly. If the TLC jackpot hadn't come along, I seriously doubt they would have ever finished that big house.

Anybody who is willing to work like crazy at a bunch of different jobs and tightly control what they spend can accumulate a significant amount of cash, even if they don't earn much at any one job. In that, I commend the Duggars for being willing to "do what it takes" to reach their financial goals. But it's exhausting to carry on like that year after year. The reason all those sharecroppers and millworkers and coal miners worked those jobs was so they could give their kids a BETTER life, a chance at an education, so they wouldn't have to work long, hard hours at demanding, unpleasant or physical labor to make a living, like their parents did.

The Duggars can come up smelling like roses now, because TLC has removed much of the financial strain and worry from their household. Each of the kids (or for the girls, their husbands) can be set up in a business that meets with Mom's and Dad's and Bill's approval. Had they not had the show, I suspect Josh would be working a bit more than five days a week, 10-6, to support his wife and daughter, if he were able to get married at all, since a man is supposed to be able to support a family before getting married.

Jen said...

"It is possible that Joseph and the older girls worked all year long and now have their GEDs, which means they are open now to tutoring and working. Of course, Michelle hasn't said any of this, but I do know plenty of child actors who have pursued home schooling and "graduated" at a very young age.:
----------------------------------

Michelle has said that all her children (those old enough) finished school and received a GED by age 16.

Jen said...

"The little kids are also lucky enough to have an indoor slide"

------------------------------------
Does anyone know, is there a way to get on the slide besides from the the entrance in the boy's room?

Anonymous said...

old interview but good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW3Uu6miCVc

Anonymous said...

As for the boys - I think it is a little early to speculate on how things will turn out for them. Realistically they only need 4 or 5 successful businesses between the 10 of them. In an commercial area the size of of the greater Springdale, Bentonville, Fayetteville area 5 successful trades-oriented businesses is not a stretch.Also - most of them have many years before they are kicked out of the nest.
I am more concerned about the older girls. I really really hope they will have the support they need to do whatever it is THEY WANT to do. And as far as relationships for them? I wonder how they are approaching that aspect of their lives--- I am familiar the family emphasizes the 'courting' process but - with who? They seem to live and exist in a fairly isolated manner based on the show...

Anonymous said...

I have a family relative about JimBob's age, who has followed a similar path that JimBob and Michelle did as far as their employment and real estate investments. My relative had a large family also, and they lived crazy-frugal in a tiny house for years and years, working very hard at fairly low-paying jobs. He bought a few real estate pieces here and there, and over the years, with fortunate timing and good business sense, he and his family are now very well-off and live in a multi-million dollar estate on 9 acres, and he was semi-retired while in his forties.

My point is, that with the path JimBob and Michelle chose, there comes a point when you can enjoy the fruits of your labors and don't have to work as hard, and when you own properties outright, like JB does, you can sit back much of the time and the money just rolls in. JB seems semi-retired at this point, imo from his real estate investments, and the TLC gig is just gravy. I politely disagree that JB and Michelle would be limping along right now if TLC hadn't entered the picture.

Anonymous said...

Why does everyone say "GED"? Can't home schooled children get an actual high school diploma? I know tons of kids who use charter schools and receive a high school diploma from the school district.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:
Realistically they only need 4 or 5 successful businesses between the 10 of them. I
----------------------

I am curious why you think only 4 or 5 need to be successful in business -- is that because you think those 4 or 5 would then hire their brothers, thus providing them with an income as well? I agree that would make sense, because the Duggars (like most people in business for themselves) do like to keep things in the family.

Although I often express doubt about the Duggar children's future, I really don't want them to fail. I hope they can succeed in supporting themselves and whatever size family they decide to have.

Kitten said...

Everyone says GED because that's what Michelle said the kids get. Yes, there are many good programs that allow a home-schooled child to receive a high school "diploma," but the Duggars apparently do not use any of them. The children take their GED exams at 16, and they are done, giving them more time to do real (free) work for their parents, like maintaining JimBob's rental properties and taking care of the next batch of kids.

Anonymous said...

Unless I'm mistaken, it's been said before that Michelle achieved a 12th grade education. I think it would be totally impossible for someone with that level of education obtained a couple of decades ago to be capable of teaching current course requirements all the way thru a high school level. When I was in high school, many years ago, we had biology labs, chemistry labs, several math courses - I just don't see how Michelle would be able to adequately teach those kinds of classes to her children.

I think more is demanded of high school students now than was two decades ago, and I see no sign that Michelle has kept up with continuing education requirements that might qualify her to teach a balanced high school curriculum to her children.

I'm afraid all of these 'children' are woefully under-educated by today's standards.

That's not Education! said...

We don't even know for a fact that any of those kids (except Josh, since I think they made a big deal of this) actually TOOK the GED, much less passed it. For all we know, all "schooling" at the DRT ended at 16, and there was never any evaluation of learning. The kids just went on to doing their parents' work with no more pretense of school.

To tell you the truth, I would sincerely doubt any of these kids could pass the GED. What on earth have they learned to be able to pass English, HIstory, Science, Math? I think the GED is just another thing that isn't getting done in that house.

Sharla said...

I don't usually comment directly on the discussion, but it's time to reel in the outright bashing of the kids and their education. It was talked about in an episode that one of the older girls was taking or getting ready to take the GED. While that may not be a high level achievement, to say that they can not pass it is to basically be lying about the Duggars, exaggerating, and speaking without reviewing the curriculum that they actually are using. So as I said, dial it back a notch, please. We aren't here to write fiction.

roddma said...

Not everyone gets so lucky in their investments like Jim Bob. It's not we don't think the would ever be built just not as fast. TLC sped up the house because they wanted to start filming is my understanding.

I still think their income would be ok without TLC . They still will have profits from books , rental properties and sales of dvd's. I'm not sure if they are paid for speaking at seminars. In articles about Quiverfull, many of these families go to extreme measures being frugal and save up for their dream house. Some have success but I imagine a bigger percentage don't. This isn't saying the Duggars never would have made it without TLC nut it helped.

Jen said...

"We don't even know for a fact that any of those kids (except Josh, since I think they made a big deal of this) actually TOOK the GED, much less passed it. For all we know, all "schooling" at the DRT ended at 16, and there was never any evaluation of learning."
-----------------------------------
Sure we do know for a fact..
The last episode showed the certificate that Jessa has passed the GED. They showed Jim Bob handing it to her at her party to celebrated the fact.

There was also an episode that mentioned the children taking the Arkansas State required testing. Arkansas requires these tests every year for students. You can see the testing results of Arkansas state homeschooled children compared to public/private schooled children at http://arkansased.org/about/schools/home.html

Anonymous said...

The link to the Arkansas tests results for homeschooled vs. public school students does NOT show the results for individual students. That would be an invasion of privacy.

We do not know, and the Duggars choose not to reveal, the results of the Arkansas state test results.

The Duggar children could just as likely be at the bottom of the curve as the top.

Anonymous said...

So....according to the commercial I just heard, someone is expecting? I wonder who that could be.

SuzanneDeAz said...

Mrs. Duggar has said more than once her children are doing quite well on those tests.

The olders children are taking most of their course work using computer programs. These programs often have a testing system built in and you do not go to the next level till you master the content. Most are self pacing and self teaching. If the children are self disciplined or monitored to work on the various programs as designed they can get a decent education.

Many students are taking their course work for high school online and are learning so I can see that the Duggar kids can get an education this way. I have viewed some of the contents of the SOS computer programs and it is quite advance. I do believe thatis just one of the programs they use.

Christine said...

Michelle announces someone is excepting, and she is standing alone on her side of the dining room table, I would think JB would be right next to her, if it was Michelle. Josh and Anna were there, but wouldn't they be giving the news themselves?

I hope it is the visiting family? Anyone know what large families are visiting in next weeks episode? Are the moms pregnant? still having kids?

Anonymous said...

Not sure who would be "expecting", except for TLC. They'll be expecting ratings to go sky high, fueled by all these rumors and speculations about number 20 or number 2. TLC will be delighted $$$$$$$

Iliketheduggars said...

"We do not know, and the Duggars choose not to reveal, the results of the Arkansas state test results."

Good for them. They shouldn't reveal their children's achievement test scores; that would be quite an invasion of privacy. We don't want to encourage that kind of exploitation, right?

Anonymous said...

WHy wouldn't Anna say she was expecting herself? Why would Michelle need the spotlight to "preview" the announcement?

Honestly, she looks mighty preggers already to me. That's why she has passed Josie off to Jill. #20 is already in the oven.

mythoughtis said...

not having seen the commercial, could TLC be teasing you here?

Does Michelle actually say 'is expecting a baby, child, is pregnant'?

Or does she Say 'are expecting' and TLC cuts the sentence off at both ends? If that is the case, for all we know, they 'are expecting' 100 people for dinner, etc. Since the titla of the show has to do with a dinner party.

Anonymous said...

The commercial goes something like this: Michelle, holding a baby and with JB by her side says "We (or I) have an announcement. Someone is expecting....." The next shot is the crowd, with many people having a wtf look on their faces. (If I remember correctly Josh and Anna were among the wtf-ers.)

Anonymous said...

While I wouldn't be surprised to hear Michelle was pregnant again, for some reason I think the little tease about the "announcement" and "someone expecting" will turn out to be a different sort of expecting. I don't know what -- maybe someone is expecting to begin courting? Maybe they are "expecting visitors".

But then again, it's the Duggars and they think differently than I do, that's for sure.

Anonymous said...

I have heard some rumors that Kelly Bates recently suffered a miscarriage - recently as in "after Josie Duggar's birth." Does anyone know if there is any truth to this? None of the sources I heard this from are reliable. Sorry for jacking the topic like this.

Chris said...

Josie is actually being passed off to Joy Anna not Jill! Yes poor girl is finally buddy age and she gets the biggest challenge. No wonder all the way back to the oxygen tank first arriving, Joy Anna being there to listen to the instructions..all the way up to the homecoming episode were she followed Michelle as the walked Josie around the house with Jackson.

The new buddy team is Michelle, Joy Anna Jackson Josie. I wonder how long Michelle will be part of the team. It must be alot of work/worry to put on the hsoulder of a 13 year old. Maybe they are planning for the future, Joy Anna will be in the house at least 7 more years, and then if Josie still needs help Johanna will be over 12 and could take over.

My guess on the expecting announement is it is not Michelle. TLC might tease about a big special episode but not use the word expecting.

Anonymous said...

By the way -- The Duggars seem to feel it's more Christian/modest for females to wear long skirts as females did in biblical times. Why then don't the Duggar males wear long robes like the men in biblical times? Men of that time period never wore long pants.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

the girls are not wearing long skirts to be pattern after women of Biblical times. They wear dresses for modest reasons.

None of the clothes they wear look like anything they wore back in biblical times.

mythoughtis said...

my guess for the expecting comment is that they 'are expecting Josie to be off oxygen during the daytime soon'.

also, on another thought, I have finallY (I'm a little dense, I guess) figured out why Jim Bob makes the pronouncements to his brood the way he does.... he's not actually talking to them, even though they want it to seem that way. He's actually talking to us TV watchers, and thinks that we understand better if he talks to us like 4 year olds 'As in: Today, I have a special surprise, we are going to give blood, etc'. httanlly .thon

Christine said...

Kelly Bates had her last baby Callie-Anna on August 2, 2009. She is expecting her next baby Sept 30, 2010. She had 2 miscarriages before Callie-Anna sometime in 2009? The family website even gives the miscarried children names (both J named girls). From what I have read they were later term miscarriages. I believe the pregnancy test that she took on the way to the Duggars at the gas station (during an episode of the show) was the first miscarriage. Kelly also was really sick(heart failure) after she had Callie-Anna. I does show that a life threatening event did not slow the Bates from having number #18.

Anonymous said...

Sometimes I wonder if maybe the older girls aren't in a hurry to get married and move out because they realize how good they have it at home. I know that sounds kinda insane at first but think about it. Sure, they have a lot of responsibility with the younger kids but at the same time they live in a really nice house, they all seem to be wearing cute clothes and jewelery and makeup. When they get married money might be tight. They get to go on a lot of free trips. Chances are some of the girls will marry a guy from somewhere else and have to move away from where they grew up. Plus all the older girls do seem like they're close friends with each other.
Just a thought.

It wouldn't surprise me if one of them was courting already and we just won't hear about any of it until an engagement occurs.

Anonymous said...

I could see that being the case. The girls do seem to genuinely enjoy their lives with their family. They probably see themselves getting married young and letting their husband earn the money, so they don't feel much motivation to tear themselves away from their comfortable cocoon and go live in a strange place eating their meals alone or with people they barely know. I myself couldn't wait to leave home and go to college, but then again, I didn't like being at home or at the time, my family. I can't imagine how I'd have felt if I had the happy home life and close-knit family they do. I do wonder though, why they don't pursue any schooling from their safe home environment - Jill even mentioned it, but none of them are doing that. I would love to hear one of them honest-to-goodness answer that question. Not that they owe me or anyone else an explanation, but I would really be interested to know.

Anonymous said...

The girls do have it made nicely at home,without having to worry about outside work or schooling.
They seem to have it made so well,in such a large house,(albeit I do disagree with all the parenting and household duties they have),that I can't really picture them marrying someone that can't support at least a somewhat similar lifestyle on the same level.I think a Bates boy with a tree-cutting service would not suffice for them,if any of the Bates are planning to follow in their dad's footsteps.
JMO.

Anonymous said...

SuzanneDeAZ said...
They wear dresses for modest reasons.

---

Yeah, because going up that rock-climbing wall in a skirt was modest. Pants of any kind will show what, exactly? That legs reach the torso, thereby "defrauding" every uncontrollable male around? I know they believe it - I'm just calling on the lack of logic and realism here. Modest can be achieved in every form, including pants/capris (which are less prone to accidental flashings, btw). Guess they don't need the mobility of pants anyway, since the girls aren't even allowed to run… b/c their body will jiggle or something? And it's the girls' responsibility to make sure boys aren't "defrauded" rather than teaching all kids of each gender to get over it and maturely focus on other things? Yet, I bet they'd be quick to snub other religions' layered coverings, which are quite similar in philosophy.

Guess the watching the Olympics is a big no-no in that house!

SuzanneDeAZ said...

It appears that some may think the Duggar girls may not wish to marry or marry a Bate boy because they can not give them the same comforts of home or compete with JB. Have we not forgotten that these girls were not raised in a mega mansion home. They lived in a small 3 bed room home for years. They have only lived in this mega home in the last 5 or 6 years or maybe less. They also help build it and saw the sacrifice the entire family has made. So why would they compare a young adult male with their dad.

The girls are raised to live frugally and not equate happiness with materialism. I do think they are content where they are now but I do not think when it is the right time with the right mate they will remain living at home because their potential date can not give them the same standard of living that they are now living.

Most young people know when they leave their parents home they will not start off with all that they parents have adquired. I know many may want that but it is not realistic.

Swissmiss said...

As far as that 'tease' about 'expecting,' I wouldn't put it past TLC to have it turn out to be nothing but they are 'expecting' a lot of company.

When I hear the Duggars are scheduled to be on the Today show, that usually means something is 'up.'

Anonymous said...

"They have only lived in this mega home in the last 5 or 6 years or maybe less "

(that’s forever to someone that young, especially if they didn’t LIKE the old house)

"The girls are raised to live frugally and not equate happiness with materialism."

(so was I but I instinctively realized I didn’t want a permanent substancial demotion from what I’d known since it wasn't exactly wealth and fame – and they already know what raising a lot of kids in a small house is like… till they get a taste of puppy love, they won’t have a motive to go anywhere)

Anonymous said...

Goodness. Tell me that doesn't look like a maternity top with Michelle five months pregnant.

http://lillyscottslife.blogspot.com/2010/09/mops-reids-sick.html

Anonymous said...

Yes, she does look pregnant there. Her boobs are huge. She also looks the same way in next week's episode.

oops they did it again said...

A commercial for the next showed aired a little bit ago. Jim Bob was calling everyone to the downstairs for the big announcement..SOMEONE is expecting.
I can't even bet on this... It could be Michelle or Anna...we know it isn't on e of the other girls!!
From the pics the above link showed, Michelle does have that look again.

Why do they have to make such a big deal?? those kids are getting older and surely it makes them uncomfortable with the thought of all this Procreating going on under their roof:) If I was one of the older kids, I would be like can you all give it up some??

Celestie said...

"They have only lived in this mega home in the last 5 or 6 years or maybe less "

The house may be large in square feet, but remember there are 21 or 22 people living in it, 5 times the average family. There is no personal space for anyone, except maybe Grandma Duggar. It is reported that there is a prayer closet or some such thing. Ok, one person is in the closet, one is in the sewing room, one is in the audio visual room. Still no personal space for most

I think the girls are scared to go out on their own. They have been taught that everyone who is not just like them is to be feared or scorned. Don't go to college, someone may have green hair, don't go to the mall alone, there are defrauders there. And so it goes.

Jana has now been out, she looked happy and relaxed. Maybe she discovered there are other people out there who are perfectly ok.
I don't consider those foolish field trips as being out in the world. They are in a herd on a bus or pushing strollers, with Jim Bob spouting inane comments.

Wonder if John David learned to pack is own bag along the way?

SuzanneDeAZ said...

Concerning the girls may be afraid to go out into the world may be true. I think most teens are afraid of what is out there yet many go out and test the waters.

On the other hand they may just be content living in their own little world till they decide to branch out of get married.

My personal take on this is we really do not know why they are not moving out as soon as they are legal adults. It could be a variety of reason, different for each of them.

My question is why in our day it almost a "must" for a teen, especially a girl, to be pushed out of the nest if there is contentment of the part of parent and child for the child to remain home. As long as the child is contributing and not just being lazy hanging out at home and vegging why should it even be an issue? I have seen so many teens who go out there before they are really ready to be on their own and end up messing with their lives and end up coming home to live again with their parents. Some of them come home with much baggage or come home with offsping in which they can not support or a spouse/boyfriend who can not support them. Is it not better for them to leave when they are ready and do so in such a way that once they leave they most likely will not return home to live under their parents roof except for some real crisis.

Anonymous said...

"By the way -- The Duggars seem to feel it's more Christian/modest for females to wear long skirts as females did in biblical times. Why then don't the Duggar males wear long robes like the men in biblical times? Men of that time period never wore long pants."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Excellent point.

I vote we put The Patriarch in a robe or toga AND TAKE AWAY HIS BELOVED HAIRSPRAY.

mythoughtis said...

Jana probably got to sleep in a hotel room with no more than 3 other girls in it... no babies or toddlers crying, needing changed, needing comforted, no young ones crawling in her bed, kicking her all night. sleep, glorious sleep.
Practically no chores such as cooking for 20, cleaning for 20, laundry for 20, shopping for 20,

just the teaching part.
no wonder she looks rested and happy.

MandySue said...

re- the girls not leaving/ being content

So is there a magic age when it's not appropriate for the girls to still be at home? 20, 25, 30, 40?


The Duggars don't seems willing to allow the girls to move on with the next chapter of their life.

I personally find it hard to believe that ALL the girls are happy and content doing what they are doing.

Celestie said...

My personal take on this is we really do not know why they are not moving out as soon as they are legal adults. It could be a variety of reason, different for each of them.

----
I'm not a big believer of just leaving home to leave home. BUT, a person over the age of 18 should be able to go on a road trip with girl friends, or go to the mall by his or herself, go to college if that is what she wants. I think the parents and the kids are afraid to be away from the nest.

I remember going on a great road trip when I was 18, with two friends and my younger sister. We crossed three states and went camping in Canada. It was so much fun and we felt so grown up and responsible.

Donna said...

"Jana probably got to sleep in a hotel room with no more than 3 other girls in it... no babies or toddlers crying, needing changed, needing comforted, no young ones crawling in her bed, kicking her all night. sleep, glorious sleep.
Practically no chores such as cooking for 20, cleaning for 20, laundry for 20, shopping for 20,"

I agree. No matter how much I read about the Duggars or watch their show, knowing that the older children are taking care of the children at night in their bedroom while the parents are sleeping peacefully or doing who knows what (we can imagine "what"), THIS is what bothers me MOST about the Duggars. There is something very wrong about having a system that calls for your older children to be in full-charge overnight care for your 6+ month old baby while you sleep contently in your own peaceful room thus avoiding all the responsibilities and chaos of taking care of your own child. I don't see any difference between what these poor girls have to do and what teen-age mothers have to do. These girls have done this with how many kids now.

It is absolutely amazing how much they are expected to do and they do it because they have no choice. They will be (if they are not so already), totally burned out by the time they get married and decide to have children of their own. They will be like many of the kids from larger families who took care of their own siblings to such a large extent that they have no desire to have children of their own. I think it is very selfish of Mr. and Mrs. Duggar to take that away from their kids.

They use their older children so they can "live their dream" without thinking about how it impacts their older children in the long run. There's two people living in la-la land. Jim Bob doesn't usually take care of infants because it's not his "jurisdiction" and Michelle has forgotten how to take care of an infant after they are 6+ months because the older girls have done it for her for the last how many babies. I seriously have no clue how this can be considering that in the "real world" we all live in the mother and father are responsible for the care of the babies, toddlers, children; it comes with the territory of being a parent. There is NO "jurisdiction" about it. How they can relinquish their parental responsibility of taking care of their own children to someone else because they follow a certain religion that provides for this sort of thing is beyond unbelievable and what is even more unbelievable is how people lap it up and act like this is so fantastic. Wow, just wow!

There isn't much to speculate about why the older girls are not leaving home. No one is saying that the girls need to be thrown out of the home once they reach a certain age, we're talking about normal progression of events that comes with age and maturity. They aren't "leaving home" because it is as simple as pie: they are needed back at the ranch to perform all the manual labor and grunt work that having 19 children requires...while Ma and Pa live their dream. Yee hah!

Anonymous said...

I try to always look at the pure facts of what we have seen when I draw conclusions about the Duggars, I am not usually one to defend them reflexively, or criticize them reflexively. And the facts are, it has NOT been proven that the babies are put in the girls room at 6 months for them to "care for during the night." I've noticed this has been widely assumed. Here are the facts of what we've seen:

Jordyn was still sleeping in Michelle's bedroom up until Josie was born last December. Jordyn was a year old by then. We've seen this evidence in episodes. She was someone's "buddy" by then but was still sleeping in Michelle's room.

Since the girls have been back to their regular house, now Jordyn sleeps in the room with them.

Now, I hear of some babies who still wake up in the night at that age or even older. But mine were always trained to sleep through the night by about 6 months. And they slept like rocks all. night. long. The fact that Michelle has had so many babies you'd think she has learned all the tricks to getting a baby to sleep through the night as soon as possible. We saw Jill trying to wake up Jordyn on the last episode. That little girl was definitely sleeping like a rock!

When my youngest was a baby, my oldest begged to let me share a room with him. She loved him to death and wanted to share with him. He had been sleeping through the night for months, so I gave it a try. They shared a room for two years and loved it. He never woke up, she was able to have her lamp on at night and do what she wanted and he just slept through it. So I know it can be done.

So, my conclusion is that we know the babies are assigned at "buddies" to an older child at around 6 months or so. But we haven't seen evidence that crying babies/toddlers who need night care are put in the girls room at that time also. I need to see more evidence one way or another before I can cry foul on this issue. Maybe they'll address it specifically on a future episode. That would be nice.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the modesty questions about wearing pants:

I know people who wear only dresses for modest reasons and their reason is primarily that pants can showcase and outline the rear end. That's the primary modesty reason behind their wearing of skirts, and I imagine the Duggars' reasoning is similar? The people I know also feel that wearing skirts make a girl more feminine, and therefore more attractive to men (yes they want their girls to be attractive to men, just in a modest way).

Thought this might shed some light on some possible reasons why the Duggars do this. And just as a tidbit, the people I see around my area who practice the no-pants rule, wear pretty unattractive clothes and skirts in general. While we see the Duggar girls in skirts only, they are cute, modern skirts that are easy on the eyes. They are cute girls in general who dress in cute clothes similar to most people, just never in pants. And fyi, when Joy was climbing the rock wall, she had on leggings under her skirt. Plus the harnesses they wear while rock climbing clamp the skirts around the rear end so there's nothing to see anyway.

Anonymous said...

Donna said:
Jim Bob doesn't usually take care of infants because it's not his "jurisdiction"
---------------------------------

This blew me away. Completely. When it's your own child, you can't give up your responsibility. I know many dads feel unsure around infants, afraid they might drop the baby, or hurt the baby by accident. But JimBob, as he and Michelle tell us all the times, have had 19 children. You'd think by now JimBob would have learned a thing or two about infants and how to care for and handle them.

My biggest gripe with the Duggars is the amount of responsibility they have shucked off their shoulders and onto their children, especially the oldest girls. The older boys can break free of that yoke by a) getting married or b) getting their own business and ensuring they are away from the house all day long. But the older girls don't have option (b).

Have as many kids as you desire, but don't pass them off to others to raise for you. That's why I don't admire the Duggars. They act like they're so great for having lots of kids, but they aren't the ones doing the raising anymore.

Anonymous said...

I haven't been able to figure out exactly what Jinger meant by that jurisdiction comment about JimBob, because JimBob is by no means a hands-off dad with the little ones. He is always, always carrying or helping one of those little girls. More than Michelle does.

Anonymous said...

Topic: Power Parenting

How to use their power is a difficult issue for JB and M. The appropriate power all parents need to have over their young children, the Duggar Family, now extends over the adult children. As I read of JB & M's celebriy in their religious group and their rapidly gowing income and their celebrity in the general public, I'm thinking this reinforces their need to keep such tight control over all aspects of their kids lives.

Consciously, JB & M probably think their micro management is in the best interests of the kids. What they're forgetting is that the rules they enforce for their children don't and never did apply to themselves. An example - JB & M were both making their own life choices (work, dating, marriage, religion) right out of high school . Neither ever had any child care duties of younger sibs and neither, as pre-teen and teenagers, were expected to do the complete cooking, cleaning, laundry etc in their parent's homes. "Do as I say, not as I do!"

Too bad that the more JB & M depend on power and control to bend the children to their own current needs, the less they can recognize and support their kids needs.

Madigan said...

Does anyone know if the Duggar children are allowed to go to the public library?

Anonymous said...

prob not

too many bad books with covers with "nike" moments.

MandySue said...

I just looked at the Bates family web-site. Didn't Josh start to design it at first but never finished it? Now it's been done by someone else.

Also on the web-site they say the house isn't finished yet. Why would Jim Bob start a project for them then drop it in their lap?

I wonder if that is a pattern, starting something and not finishing it.

A thought about baby number twenty- they trust God with that decision..but they can't trust God to take care of the older kids? It seems they pick and choose when they trust God.

Steve knight said...

How can they go to the library when most things in it are against their beliefs. History, science, literature, news info all can't be looked at or their beliefs will crumble.

Anonymous said...

I don't think helping the Bates start a huge house addition and not finishing it for them was slacking on the Duggars part. The Bates obviously wanted and needed the house addition, and I'm sure were grateful for any and all help at any stage of the process. If friends helped me get a huge project started I wouldn't expect them to keep helping me until it was done, or be mad at them for it. I'd just be grateful for the help they had given me.

Anonymous said...

This is from the Bates family website

On Mother’s Day, 2009, the Duggar family surprised us with the offer to build an addition to our 1700 sq. ft. house. Jim Bob’s plan was to add a 300 sq. ft. laundry room. Over the next few days those plans were GREATLY enlarged and modified as a HUGE 3-story 2900 sq. ft. addition began to materialize!

We have been blessed by the MANY volunteers and laborers who have offered help, materials, discounts, encouragement, and prayers! As we continue to work on the on-going adventure of building and remodeling, we remind ourselves of 2 very important things:

1. As much as we LOVE our new MEGA-sized home, we know that the MOST important blessings that we will experience in this house are the people that walk through its doors! A friend recently reminded,”The most important things in life are NOT THINGS!”
2. We would not be where we are except for the MANY others God has brought across our path .This is true in our family, in our spiritual walk, and in this building project! So, with much gratitude we say, “Thanks” to our fellow laborers, suppliers, and friends!

It was Jim Bob's idea, his plan he just didn't see it through. Another place on the site said that TLC has been there twice.

Yea for Jim Bob wanting to help but I would be pretty ticked if someone started a project on my house then left in the middle of it.

Sharla said...

Just a reminder, but a lot of comments are being rejected for using shortened names, initials, or nick names for the Duggars.

Anonymous said...

As to the Bates home addition -- it sounds like they were expecting a rather simple addition - 300 square feet more of space for a laundry room, and then before their very eyes it turned into a huuuuuuuuuuuge project. While they are certainly grateful for the thought (who wouldn't be?), it seems a bit unfair of JimBob and TLC to break ground on this big project, only to leave the rest up to the Bates (with the donation of time and supplies from assorted friends and community members). Unless TLC steps in again with both money and labor, the Bates are going to have to piecemeal this addition as time and money allows - and that's really not the greatest thing in the world to do to friends.

Anonymous said...

Yea for Jim Bob wanting to help but I would be pretty ticked if someone started a project on my house then left in the middle of it.




I don't understand this...if they had paid for the remodel and the workers just left, then yeah. But these were FRIENDS who had donated their time, effort and money as a FREE SERVICE of generosity. How could someone possibly be ticked? ANY donated time or money from friends is just icing on a cake, there's no expectations tied to it.

Anonymous said...

"I don't understand this...if they had paid for the remodel and the workers just left, then yeah. But these were FRIENDS who had donated their time, effort and money as a FREE SERVICE of generosity. How could someone possibly be ticked? ANY donated time or money from friends is just icing on a cake, there's no expectations tied to it."
I think they were upset because they did not ask for that. Kind of like if someone gave you a puppy that you did not want but left no provisions for vet visits, food, and all the care it will need for its lifetime.
The Duggars showed up with gradiose plans, then didn't finish. Mrs. Bates was 9 months pregnant and they were not prepared to suddenly take on a huge house remodeling project when a few weeks before, it was not even on their agenda.

Anonymous said...

How could someone possibly be ticked? ANY donated time or money from friends is just icing on a cake, there's no expectations tied to it.
---------------------------------

I don't think the Bates are ticked off, but I think that the size of the remodel took them by surprise. They were being filmed too, so I think they were put on the spot. If they had wished to refuse to increase the size of the remodel, they would have looked churlish on TV. So in effect, they kind of got pushed into accepting JimBob's idea of taking a relatively simple 300 sq. foot addition to the home, and instead doing a very large remodeling job.

However, they could have refused the offer and they didn't. So ultimately, the rest of the job is up to them. I still feel they were railroaded into it unexpectedly, and then left with the partially finished project along with the vastly increased costs of finishing it.

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to chime in that I was out shopping today here in LR, and there was a two-month old w/ her mom and grandma. The baby was wearing a ... drumroll please ... gigantic flower headband!! I must say that it was the cutest little thing on her. She didn't seem bothered by it at all. The headband looked like it was maybe some type of knit material, but I could be wrong. I asked the Mom about it specifically so I could report back to this board (LOL). She said she bought it at a local shop and sometimes her friend makes them.

I would not say this is an "Arkansas-thing", though, as it is the first time I've seen a baby - other than the Duggars - wearing one.

~ Jasmine

Anonymous said...

I am the person who said I would be ticked if someone started a project then didn't finish it.

I meant to say that I personally would be upset not that the Bates were upset.

Somebody come in to your home that you are content in and wants to add however much room then over a year later it is still not done. I would be upset because I didn't want it to start with, the people who gave it to me left before it was done and since I am not a handy type person I would have to figure out how to finish it on my tight budget. My husband can't work on it because he is working and my sons are wither working with their dad or have their own business. Yes I would be upset with a half finished remodel even if I didn't pay for it.

Amanda

mythoughtis said...

the Bates may be upset, or not, we'll never know as they'll never say. However, if I were them, I would have been upset because

1. Mrs. Bates was heavily pregnant at the time
2. they had budgeted for a small one room addition. Jim Bob expanded it to 19 times that size.
3. They had no plans to ask for donations of time or money from anyone. Jim Bob made those donatios neccessary. That would be darn embarassing for me.
4. What if they had not gotten those donations... how long would it have taken to finish the addition, and how much of it would have been damaged or destroyed by weather prior to getting it done?
5. maybe, just maybe, the Bates don't have to money to pay the increaed utilities, upkeep and property taxes on the bigger house?
They don't strike me as rolling in the dough, even though they manage with what they have.

Cyn said...

The Duggars showed up in May, Mrs Bates was due in October hardly 9 months pregnant. The Duggars staid a month and had the concrete down, the walls up, the roof on, plumbing, and ele roughed in, and left 2 of their oldest boys to keep working on it. They set up and or paid for the materials, and donated enough labor to get the above mentioned items done.

The other family that helped the Duggars build their home have been up several times helping on the build, and the Duggars themselves have been back twice to continue the help needed.

Yes shame on those mean Duggars for doubling the Bates living space, getting the community rallied around to help them, and for coming up with the grandiose idea to begin with.

The most ironic part is people on the blogs are more upset about the "help" than the Bates were... They were quite happy, grateful, and happy about it.

Anonymous said...

my thought said:
3. They had no plans to ask for donations of time or money from anyone. Jim Bob made those donatios neccessary. That would be darn embarassing for me.
4. What if they had not gotten those donations... how long would it have taken to finish the addition, and how much of it would have been damaged or destroyed by weather prior to getting it done?
5. maybe, just maybe, the Bates don't have to money to pay the increaed utilities, upkeep and property taxes on the bigger house?
------------------

I was thinking along the same lines. I grew up in a large family and many people assumed that we needed hand outs to get by. These people meant well - neighbors that were acquaintances, etc., and they would drop by with used clothes by the bagful sometimes, or once with frozen goods when their freezer went out, and so on. My parents always accepted these things graciously, and then turned around and donated them to Goodwill, etc. My dad would shake his head and my mom would say, "they mean well honey."

I can only imagine how angry he would have been if some friends showed up with a tv crew and said, "hey, you clearly can't afford to fit your family in this little home, - how's about a huge ole handout, all to be filmed for national viewing?" There is such a thing as pride and being mindful of another man's pride.

As to the second point, that's much more tangible. Right in my own community, a family had Extreme Home Makeover come and redo their home. It was great until the property taxes came due. The first year, they had a fundraiser and got them paid. But they couldn't afford the increased utility bill from all the extras either, and had to turn a bunch of stuff off. Eventually, the donations stopped and they couldn't afford to keep the home. So much for that great makeover.

Same situation with the Bates - I'm sure they budgeted for the small addition, but no way did they budget for the cost of that huge remodel, including increased property taxes, increased costs to light that new larger home size, keep it warm, etc.

I agree the Duggars had good intentions, and TLC had as their motive getting some good show footage - a feel good show, where the audience go go "awwww". But neither the Duggars or TLC will be around to help pay the increased costs of that enormous remodel.

I sure hope it wasn't really a surprise, as shown on tv. I hope that JimBob did the right thing and talked privately with Mr. Bates first and made sure this was okay with him. (But somehow, I doubt it.)

Anonymous said...

"I don't think the Bates are ticked off, but I think that the size of the remodel took them by surprise. They were being filmed too, so I think they were put on the spot. If they had wished to refuse to increase the size of the remodel, they would have looked churlish on TV. "


The only part that was being filmed was the original offer of the laundry room. It wasn't until later in the episode, that it was reported the original plans had grown much bigger. The actual conversations regarding the changing of the original plans were never on camera, so Gil Bates would have had plenty of opportunity to rein in the project in a private conversation with Jimbob that wasn't being filmed. So we can only assume that he was okay with it.

Property taxes and utilities notwithstanding, I don't see how a family that huge would turn down the opportunity to enlarge their house to a size actually big enough to meet their needs. The original house was unbelievably small for such a huge family, all seven or whatever boys were crammed into attic space for crying out loud. The Bates had a good attitude about it for sure and didn't complain, but they have to see their new addition as a huge blessing to their family, surely. Finished or not.

Anonymous said...

Everyone's glossing over the part in the Bates remodel when the Duggars/Wilsons first arrive and Mrs. Bates opens her card.

Mrs. Bates repeatedly says, "NO, NO, NO" and everyone standing there ignored her.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I say "no" to something, I literally mean NO. Maybe she didn't want it !!!

Anonymous said...

Value Voter conference is this Friday (Sept 17th), according to the website the Duggar Family will be accepting another award. Something about an reality tv entertainment award.

I wonder if it ever occurs to them that a lot of us find the Duggar less-than-entertaining.

Additionally, will Josie be put on the ole' smelly bus for the trip out there? Or is Michelle staying home with Josie while the rest of the family attends?

I think it's interesting that the Values Voter website shows a photo of the Duggars back when they only had 17 children. Too bad for Jordyn.

I guess they don't want to show a photo of Josie, being as how that would remind people that the Duggars are either bringing or leaving fragile preemie Josie behind for this award. Wouldn't want to portray the Duggars as anything less than ideal, correct?

Anonymous said...

"The Duggars showed up in May, Mrs Bates was due in October hardly 9 months pregnant."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Kelly Bates gave birth on August 2, 2009. She was not due in October, she was due in August and the baby was born very close to her due date. When the house episode was on, Michelle kept saying "Kelly is due in a couple of weeks; we need to get this done!"

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
“The baby was wearing a ... drumroll please ... gigantic flower headband!! […] She said she bought it at a local shop [...] I would not say this is an "Arkansas-thing".

They’re all over the place in Kansas. They’re comfortable and cute. I wish I’d never brought those things up! My only issue with them was that it was product placement since there’s NO WAY, since they’re still new to the market, that they’re getting those in the amount they’re wearing them at thrift stores second-hand. They’re either privately donated to the Duggars (something they’ve never acknowledged on the show) or provided by the maker for free if they wear them on the show for advertisement – which opens up a whole can of worms on what their lifestyle has become over the years, and what freebies they’re getting (it’s not the first time I’ve noticed deviation from what used to be necessary in their lifestyle without update/explanation).

SuzanneDeAZ said...

Concerning the headbands that you see on baby JOsie. My niece has them for her baby. It cost her about two $ to make each of them. She pays one $ for the elastic band and another $ for the flower. She can get them even cheaper if she has a coupon when she goes to Michael's to buy the items. I doubt if they need to get them free when they cost so little to make. Who knows there may be a group of little old ladies at the hospital who makes them and after Josie being there for months ends up with several or maybe one of her sisters or Amy enjoys making them.

Cyn said...

Kelly Bates gave birth on August 2, 2009. She was not due in October, she was due in August and the baby was born very close to her due date. When the house episode was on, Michelle kept saying "Kelly is due in a couple of weeks; we need to get this done!"
********************************
I fixed it in the next post but it didn't go through (not Sharla's fault blogger ate it)

Either way Kelly bates was NOT nine months pregnant when the renovation started.

As for the property taxes they own 25 acres of land around that house, and the house and land are on the "wrong side" of the interstate to be of much value, and back in the middle of currently nowhere.

Where the house's value would be 3-400,000 in other parts of the country (if not more) where the house is located I doubt the house (and land) will be appraised for much more than 250,000. By living in the county and not in the city proper they also only have to pay county taxes which as of 2009 were only 2.82/100 of ASSESSED value. And since property values all over the country including TN have dropped to dang near 1990 levels, I highly doubt that a "raise" in property taxes are a blip on their radar screen. They also have acres of wooded land and all those trees they chop down to fuel their wood heating system. (wood stove is on the list of things they were thanking people for)

Anonymous said...

Additionally, will Josie be put on the ole' smelly bus for the trip out there? Or is Michelle staying home with Josie while the rest of the family attends?

-----------------------

What I've read elsewhere is that Josie will be left behind with a "nurse friend." I don't know about y'all, but I sure wasn't interested in leaving my healthy baby behind to go hop, skip and jumping around the countryside when he was an infant. I can only imagine how much stronger my desire to stay with him if he had been a fragile preemie.

Michelle sure does up and leave that baby on a regular basis, doesn't she? I guess even blessings from God aren't allowed to stand in the way of going off to get another award.

I have to say, I am confused. God wants Michelle to risk her life to continue to have children, yet he doesn't mind if after she's done all that, she leaves them to get various meaningless awards? I could see her leaving the baby behind to attend her father's funeral - that made sense. An unexpected serious event. But jaunting off to get a stupid award? Hasn't she had enough applause yet?

Anonymous said...

Hasn't she had enough applause yet?

---------------------

There will never be enough applause. That's why she is an addict. She won't stop birthin' until she's dead. The applause enables her.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't have left my healthy baby either. No way would I trust my premie with anyone, even a "trusted friend".

Michelle is more interested in being named "Mother of the Year' than actually acting as a real mother. But we all knew that. She just continues to prove her lack of maternal instinct.

Anonymous said...

I was reading about Tater-Tot Casserole and I think the way my family made it as a child would be more appealing for some.

Of course Tater Tots
Ground beef or Turkey
1 can corn or green beans
2-3 cans of any combination of: cream of mushroom, cream of chicken, cream of celery, or cheddar cheese. -many of these are available in light and lower sodium too.
And milk not evaporated milk.

So there it is the more midwestern version of Tater-Tot Casserole.

Anonymous said...

"What I've read elsewhere is that Josie will be left behind with a "nurse friend." I don't know about y'all, but I sure wasn't interested in leaving my healthy baby behind to go hop, skip and jumping around the countryside when he was an infant. I can only imagine how much stronger my desire to stay with him if he had been a fragile preemie."

Isn't this a bit of a double standard here? Mothers around the world do this very thing daily, even with preemies, to go to work outside the home. They aren't being condemned here for doing that. Some of them have no other choice of course, but some moms work because they like to and want to. I'm not saying they SHOULD be condemned for that, I'm merely pointing out that because Michelle has gone a few places and left Josie in the care of others shouldn't earn her any condemnation.

Suzie said...

Isn't this a bit of a double standard here? Mothers around the world do this very thing daily, even with preemies, to go to work outside the home. They aren't being condemned here for doing that. Some of them have no other choice of course, but some moms work because they like to and want to. I'm not saying they SHOULD be condemned for that, I'm merely pointing out that because Michelle has gone a few places and left Josie in the care of others shouldn't earn her any condemnation.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

No, it's not a double-standard. Why? Because the Gothard religion REQUIRES women to STAY AT HOME to raise their children. They are not allowed to work outside the home (unless you work with your husband at his business and the baby is with you, apparently).

Michelle violates her own standards by running off to Michigan, Texas and now DC for money and glorification of her massive ego as she receives yet another first-time "Mother of the Year" award. This one's even more egregious than the Vision Forum "tea" deal: they will be appearing onstage with Hannity Friday night and with other right-wing extremists like Michelle Bachmann, who made an appearance on the show the last time they were in DC...why, I have no idea...Minnesota is how close to Arkansas again?

At any rate, a mother going out to work because she has to help support her family financially, leaving a premie with (hopefully) qualified care, which I'm sure costs a fortune, is a far cry from a SAH"M" running to and fro to accept bogus awards for a job she abandoned about 8 kids ago.

Anonymous said...

"Isn't this a bit of a double standard here? Mothers around the world do this very thing daily, even with preemies, to go to work outside the home. They aren't being condemned here for doing that. Some of them have no other choice of course, but some moms work because they like to and want to. I'm not saying they SHOULD be condemned for that, I'm merely pointing out that because Michelle has gone a few places and left Josie in the care of others shouldn't earn her any condemnation."

I think the majority of working mothers are working because they need to support their family.

As for those mothers who do work as a choice, well, they are different from Michelle. Why? Because Michelle is on TV, writing books, doing interviews, and speaking at mother's conventions posing as "Mother of the Year" and upholding herself as a pillar of perfect motherhood. Yet, she has MANY young, needy children at home. And they are being raised by sisters. That's the difference.

If Michelle wants to pursue a career, fine by me. But you can not pose as an ever-perfect mother and be absent from the home relying on sisters to do the dirty work. Ya can't have both.

Anonymous said...

Anon said:
Isn't this a bit of a double standard here? Mothers around the world do this very thing daily, even with preemies, to go to work outside the home. They aren't being condemned here for doing that. Some of them have no other choice of course, but some moms work because they like to and want to. I'm not saying they SHOULD be condemned for that, I'm merely pointing out that because Michelle has gone a few places and left Josie in the care of others shouldn't earn her any condemnation.
-----------------------------

Mothers around the world may go back to work after having a preemie, but more often than not, moms who have preemies have to adjust their plans. Most decide not to return to work as planned, not until that baby is more out of the woods. after all, they can't go off and leave the baby, except with qualified provider and that costs money.

Either way, the Duggars have always made a big deal about how important they feel about personally raising their children and being the primary care givers. Yet this latest baby, who needs the most care, has been left now at least three times so Michelle and JimBob can go off in search of more attention and silly awards. It's not daily work they are attending to, not work that would bring in much needed money. It's glory on earth they are seeking.

They don't need to attend these little seminars and award ceremonies to make a living. They go because they are ego driven.

I don't fault a mom who must return to work to support her family. Moms have to make tough decisions all the time, and decide what is best for the family's needs.

But you can't convince me that it is in Josie's best interests that her mom leave her in the care of others to accept some award for family tv. It's not necessary for the well being of the family, nor will it affect their income if she does not attend. That's why I say it is ego driven, not necessity driven.

Ally said...

"Isn't this a bit of a double standard here? Mothers around the world do this very thing daily, even with preemies, to go to work outside the home. They aren't being condemned here for doing that. Some of them have no other choice of course, but some moms work because they like to and want to. I'm not saying they SHOULD be condemned for that, I'm merely pointing out that because Michelle has gone a few places and left Josie in the care of others shouldn't earn her any condemnation. "
-----------------------------------
I do agree that it is a double standard. Mothers that have to work outside the home or choose to work outside the home shouldn't be condemned and Michelle shouldn't be condemned for getting out of the house and doing what she considers her life's work and what she needs to do to sustain her family.

Even if she was just going on vacation, I wouldn't condemn her, because Michelle has 19 kids. Can anyone imagine what that would be like to be in the house all the time 365/24/7 taking care of that many kids every minute of every day?

I feel like she does a lot more than we see. On the shows there have been references to how hard Michelle works. For example, on the episode for Anna's baby shower, Anna said that Mrs. Duggar works hard and didn't expect a baby shower, but then again Anna knows Michelle at a personal level.

I do think it's totally a double standard, for Michelle to be judged for not being seen helping her kids or punishing her kids or running herself ragged and crying and saying I love you kids every moment of every episode.

maynardsmom said...

About the remodels. Of course no surprise. TLC funded I am sure. Realistically why would anyone cram so many people into so little space. It is wonderful to save up but the number of children would soon outpace the saving. Also on the tater tot recipe, thats an expensive way to feed all those people. Those of us who have raised several children can feed a large family much cheaper and healthier. TLC money and staging at work. Not reality.

Anonymous said...

I don't see that Michelle has left Josie for more than two snippets of time in the baby's nine month life so far. She left for one to two days with JimBob to the conference and accepted her award. The other was when she attended her father's funeral in Ohio. Of course she needed to do that. If there's another occasion I'm unaware of, I highly doubt it was for more than one to two days. Other than those occasions, she's been at that baby's side 24/7. Those occasions don't amount to any time away from Josie hardly at all. I don't see a problem here at all.

Suzie said...

Even if she was just going on vacation, I wouldn't condemn her, because Michelle has 19 kids. Can anyone imagine what that would be like to be in the house all the time 365/24/7 taking care of that many kids every minute of every day?
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

I can condemn her because it's the lifestyle she CHOSE. The children don't have a choice in the matter and the little ones are the ones who ultimately suffer because they do not have the care from their biological mother that the older children received.

As far as the funeral, I don't see any criticism for her leaving for that. What she DIDN'T do was fly home immediately afterward; she went with the family to a paid speaking engagement in Michigan. She was gone for a week. They also bussed into TX for the Vision Forum event; that's at least four days gone. DC? They probably left yesterday for appearances on Friday and Saturday, will have to find a friendly church either in DC or on the way back home on Sunday and likely won't return until Monday (we know the entire family is scheduled to appear, sans Josie, so yes, it's a bus trip). That's another 5 days gone.

That's a far cry from having to go to work, either back to an existing job or possibly a new one, because you have to pay massive hospital bills insurance doesn't cover. That mother is home every day with her baby, maybe even with the ability to come home at lunch if the commute is reasonable.

Michelle is a big, fat, baby-talking, egotistical hypocrite, hiding behind the cloak of her extremist brand of Christianity as she pretends to be the little "supermom" who is able to deal with having multiple litters of children she can no longer raise as a real mother.

Anonymous said...

I agree that Michelle is being unfairly judged. We've seen her go very, very few places without Josie since she was born last Dec. One of those few places was her dad's funeral for pete's sake. Most moms of newborns, preemies, or small children will take that many days or more in the same amount of time, just to have a day off to shop, or rest, or just run errands - just so they don't lose their sanity. What we've seen in episode after episode for the past year is Michelle spending almost every second of her days and nights caring for Josie, pumping milk for her, living at the hospital, etc. I for one am not going to fault her for leaving on a very small handful of very short trips during that time, even if one was to accept an award.

Anonymous said...

Why is attending a "conference" to accept an "award" more important to Michelle than staying by the side of her preemie ill daughter?

I guess it's a matter of priorities.

The show must go on.

Anonymous said...

Can anyone imagine what that would be like to be in the house all the time 365/24/7 taking care of that many kids every minute of every day?
888888888888888888888888

I know someone who probably can't imagine what that's like: Michelle Duggar.

Anyone notice how she sent little Jordyn immediately to Jana when she attempted to ask her bio mom for something in the kitchen? It's been a long time since Michelle did any heavy lifting of actual motherhood. After her initial frustration at not being able to parade around with Josie under a breast friend tent all the time, she's very pleased that she use Josie as a shield against having to pay much attention to her other little children.

She comes across as a very self-centered, ego-driven woman.

Anonymous said...

I don't see that Michelle has left Josie for more than two snippets of time in the baby's nine month life so far. She left for one to two days with JimBob to the conference and accepted her award. The other was when she attended her father's funeral in Ohio. Of course she needed to do that. If there's another occasion I'm unaware of, I highly doubt it was for more than one to two days. Other than those occasions, she's been at that baby's side 24/7. Those occasions don't amount to any time away from Josie hardly at all. I don't see a problem here at all.------------------------------------------------------------------Michelle and JimBob also did a conference in Wisconsin Dells, WI early in Josie's life when she was still in the hospital. I wonder how many other trips they have made but do not disclose?????

Anonymous said...

Hello...this morning I watched the "Testy" & "Dinner Party" episodes I had recorded on my DVR. Our cable co. or TLC has stopped offering the show on demand so I haven't been watching, just reading this blog. It made me feel bad...and guilty...because they seem so nice, like it's a happy home.

However...here is one big issue: HYPOCRICY. They refuse to watch TV, allow their children to view any great films or read any great literature classics, yet they are on a reality TV show. They have shared that they have a minimal private health insurance policy. However, since poor Josie was a micro-premie with a lot of health issues, does that qualify the baby as disabled & then the big, bad GOVERNMENT pays the presumably million dollar hospital bill??? Can JimBob please answer directly if the taxpayers paid for this debacle? - that they have been married for 25 years, will not stop having sex, will not stop reproducing, have 18 kids already (not adopted) - and now the taxpayers will pay for the million dollar hospital bill. Anyone remember OctoMom?

Sorry.
New Jersey

Anonymous said...

Michelle stuck at home 365/24/7 with child care and household tasks? I don't think so. This doesn't describe Michelle, it describes all her daughters over the age of 11. Jana at 20, after waiting 10 (that's ten) years, is the first Duggar daughter to get out and away for a break.
In the Duggar household, the older children take all the consequences and responsibility for the behavior and choices of the parents.

Anonymous said...

Can anyone imagine what that would be like to be in the house all the time 365/24/7 taking care of that many kids every minute of every day?-------------------Its called parental responsibility. Its their choice to have as many children as GOD wants them to have (I personally think its more in Michelle and Jim Bob's hand than Gods). As with every blessing, you have take the good with the bad.

Anonymous said...

I can imagine what it would be like to be in a big beautiful home 365/24/7. Especially if that is exactly what I made happen. Anyone over the age of 18 has a pretty good idea what it will be like to be a mother. Anyone who has 10 or so kids knows pretty well what it will be like. So she must be okay with it considering she had 19 kids. If you sign on to be a 24/7 mom it really shouldn't come as a surprise when that is exactly what you get.

Anonymous said...

I can see Michelle or any mother, going to the grocery store, goodwill, etc. on short outings that are necessities or close to. I personally would not feel comfortable going away from home for an extended amount of time, especially for trips that truly are not that important. I can't see me choosing to leave all of those small children, especially baby Josie. Maybe later but not now. She is still being weaned off the oxygen tank which I would want to be present for. All of her children seem to be sweet and anxious to help. But as their mother I would want to raise my own children - each and every one of them. It would be exhausting and would require more hours than are in the day. But if that is too much, just have as many kids as you can handle. A fewer number of children would still be blessings.

Anonymous said...

Josie has been weaned off oxygen during the day for some time now. The episode shown last night where they had begun weaning her off was filmed weeks ago.

msrylee said...

I was feeling very sad when Jordyn came to Michelle and asked her for something in the kitchen. It seemed like Michelle was totally disconnected from her, and didn't even try to understand her need. However, Jana would know what Jordyn wanted, as she and the older blessings raise the little ones. It seems like such a shame to me.

mythoughtis said...

as long as Josie is being well taken care of, I have no problem with Michelle taking short trips. She needs a break like every one else. Regardless of whether or not I think her older girls should be live in babysitters( I don't think they should), they are good at it. Now that Josie is stable, what's one more kid for them to watch?
And, lets face it, with 19 kids you can't stop taking a break for one child or you would never have a break...but I am not defending Michelle for having 19 kids, just pointing out the reality since she does have 19.
Besides, she and Jim Bob need the alone time to create number 20. Again, I don't think they need number 20, but lets deal with what they are going to do, rather than what they should do.

Personally I think she needs mental help.

Anonymous said...

I can see Michelle or any mother, going to the grocery store, goodwill, etc. on short outings that are necessities or close to. I personally would not feel comfortable going away from home for an extended amount of time, especially for trips that truly are not that important. I can't see me choosing to leave all of those small children, especially baby Josie
-------------------

I agree. Even if Josie is recently weaned from oxygen, as a mother, my own maternal urges would keep me close to home. Michelle has had more babies than I, and maybe her maternal urges have diminished over time. I definitely have stronger maternal urges than she does. Or different priorities. Or something.

I don't connect with her on the mother level at all.

Anonymous said...

msrylee said...
I was feeling very sad when Jordyn came to Michelle and asked her for something in the kitchen. It seemed like Michelle was totally disconnected from her, and didn't even try to understand her need. However, Jana would know what Jordyn wanted, as she and the older blessings raise the little ones. It seems like such a shame to me.

9/15/2010 1:19 PM
***************
I have been quite struck with accounts of this happening. (I dont' watch the show, can't stand to hear that babyvoice) If this happened (and I guess it did seeing as it was on film) well it's a SHAME and she "should be" ashamed of herself but then again wait, this is Michelle Duggar (M.O.T.Y.) we are talking about; sorry.
So how old is this child she pushed off? One or two? Can it even talk? Or was that part of the "sign language" that Michelle was purportedly bragging about being used in the Duggar house now?
Let me take the darling home, I'd carry her around for at least a week nonstop, and when I couldnt I'd see to it that my Properly-Mothered daughters , ages 8 and 9, did so! Poor , ignored Lost child.

Suzie said...

Just checked Amy's facebook and this is not a "short trip" by any means. She posted on Monday that she was off to DC, which means the bus was as well (even though the conference doesn't begin until Friday), so we know the TLC cameras are in tow for another slew of boring "field trips" before they even get to DC. A couple days for the conference a day for chruch (they don't seem to travel on Sundays - they're often pictured on blogs visiting churches wherever they happen to be at that moment), a couple days to get back home around Tuesday.

That's 8 days. Hardly a "short trip." I will only cut Michelle slack here if she flies in Friday in time for their little pow-wow with Hannity and leaves after she gets her next manufactured award. This, like Vision Forum's, is the "First Annual..." and Michelle is the recipient...see a pattern here?

I'd forgotten the trip to Wisconsin. That's three trips. The Michigan trip was already planned and they were still able to work it in around the funeral (which, btw, I don't see anyone begrudging her).

jj said...

I, too, am sad for sweet Jordyn. I hope that it's just editing that makes her look neglected by Michelle. She would fit in so well with my two little daughters, I wish I could just take her home with me and give her the mothering that she probably needs.

Iliketheduggars said...

"They refuse to watch TV, allow their children to view any great films or read any great literature classics, yet they are on a reality TV show."

They allow their children to watch things that they feel are not "garbage." They make the show to be positive and an encouragement, so they are not, in their minds, making garbage. No hypocricy there.

---------------------------------

"They have shared that they have a minimal private health insurance policy... Can JimBob please answer directly if the taxpayers paid for this debacle?"

Why? Are we going to start limiting babies for everyone we feel shouldn't have them? The Duggars had 18 healthy babies before this... they should be punished because #19 had problems? It would be more logical to complain about someone who got pregnant again after their first child was a micro-preemie; they proved they can't have a healthy baby, so why should the taxpayers have to pay for it, right?

----------------------------------

"They have been married for 25 years, will not stop having sex, will not stop reproducing, have 18 kids already (not adopted) - and now the taxpayers will pay for the million dollar hospital bill. Anyone remember OctoMom?"

No similarities at all to Octomom. The Duggars are married (not Octomom); supporting their own healthy (several of Octomoms previous kids had disabilities) kids (Octomom received welfare); having sex with a chance of reproducing (Octomom went through infertility procedures to purposely get pregnant); have 18 of their own kids (again, Octomom's are her own but she used infertility procedures to purposely get them here); and may have paid the hospital bill in full through insurance and their own income (can't remember about Octomom).

Iliketheduggars said...

" have been quite struck with accounts of this happening. (I dont' watch the show, can't stand to hear that babyvoice) If this happened (and I guess it did seeing as it was on film) well it's a SHAME..."

It would be a shame if those accounts were true, but I just watched and never saw it and really doubt it's there now, at least as described.

The big deal that was made about Michelle coming in the door for the first time... it wasn't that all the little kids didn't run to her, they weren't even THERE. The next scenes, with narration in the background, were moments later, because suddenly a couple of the kids were there.

My word. With all the commotion made previously about the homecoming scene, I expected the 20+ family crowd huddled in the doorway acting like Michelle was invisible. Not even close.

Another hot topic: "Michelle was surprised that she knew Josie so well, how bad of a mother is she?" Michelle was contrasting how well SHE knew Josie and her sounds, etc. compared to Jim Bob.

One more: "Michelle doesn't remember how to take care of a baby." Or "Michelle talks about all there is to do in taking care of a baby, because she never takes care of them." Wrong. She was talking about JOSIE, and all the special things they have to do with her at home as a preemie, NOT regular baby care.

Octo vs. Duggars, different name, same game said...

"Why? Are we going to start limiting babies for everyone we feel shouldn't have them? The Duggars had 18 healthy babies before this... they should be punished because #19 had problems? It would be more logical to complain about someone who got pregnant again after their first child was a micro-preemie; they proved they can't have a healthy baby, so why should the taxpayers have to pay for it, right?"

A simple question was posed as to whether or not the Duggars accepted public assistance in the form of taxpayer money paying for their micropreemie's ICU/hospital bill. A brief "Aye" or "Nay" is sufficient. No one placed a value judgment on the Duggars incredible breeding capacity, heaven forbid. No one would ever think of stopping more "blessings" coming forth from their loins.

As far as the Duggars vs. Octomom, the similarities I see is that they are both attention, fame, & wealth seeking mongers. The kids might have been conceived differently, but the end results are similiar: waay too many kids for one parent or couple to handle without the assistance/intervention of many others. Octomom has paid nannies/nurses (whether she pays for them through her own earnings of being in the media or the State of CA), and the Duggars in the form of their daughters.

The State of CA DID pick up the hospital tab for the octuplets ICU/hospital bill. It is likely that the State of Arkansas did the same for the Duggars. Of course, since there is no "proof", because everything is carefully screened and managed because it is very important for the Duggars to maintain their squeaky-clean, "self-sufficient" image, there most likely will never be an answer forthcoming.

Enough with the "blessings" said...

"One more: "Michelle doesn't remember how to take care of a baby." Or "Michelle talks about all there is to do in taking care of a baby, because she never takes care of them." Wrong. She was talking about JOSIE, and all the special things they have to do with her at home as a preemie, NOT regular baby care."
"

Special things they have to do with her at home as a preemie? That's absolutely true, which is another reason why blessing #20 needs to be put on indefinite hold (in this lifetime) so that they can dedicate their full attention to the 17 left at home that are NOT special needs PLUS Josie who is definitely high-maintenance/special needs. THAT baby plus ALL the other children are the responsibility of Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, not their buddies, or the family pets, or Grandma Duggar. Jim Bob and Michelle as the actual "parents" (not siblings, pets, grandmas) are responsible for the care of Josie, not anyone else.

Sorry, but no more soup for you, Duggar parents!

Anonymous said...

The public assistance/medicaid/disability question has been answered a few times, I think.

Josie would medically qualify for disability, but the family would not be eligible for SSI because they have too many assets.

Anonymous said...

This last episode was most likely filmed in early or mid July. The Bontrager's posted picks of their visit to the Duggar's on their blog on July 23rd.

http://bontragersingers.blogspot.com/2010/07/while-in-arkansas-kansas.html

So I would think Josie is likely totally off the oxygen but probably not well enough to be taken on a long road trip to DC.

Anonymous said...

It should be remembered that Michelle was holding Josie, which is a two-hand job, when Jordyn asked her for something. Josie can't be set down quickly or easily, she needs her head supported while being held, and she has pulse oximeter cords Michelle was holding as well. It wouldn't have made sense for Michelle to pass off Josie to someone else to see what Jordyn wanted when there were myriad other adults and children available to help her. If she had followed Jordyn to the kitchen, she would have had the same problem there too - her hands were too full to get her anything. Michelle could tell Jordyn wanted her to get her something. With other family members sitting around doing nothing, why not ask someone to help the child?

The same scenario takes place in most every home around the world every day - mom has her hands full, is holding or nursing a baby, cooking dinner, or otherwise occupied, and a small child asks her to get something. So she asks another family member to help the child. This is just normal family functioning. How can this be construed as Michelle being neglectful of Jordyn?

Anonymous said...

I'm sure Michelle will be pregnant again soon, especially after she hears that Kelly Bates had her baby (a boy) yesterday, Sept 15th. The Bates family has updated their website. It seems like the only thing that Mr./Mrs. Bates & Mr./Mrs. Duggar talk about is how many children they have, and their pregnancies. I sense a slight competition there.

Anonymous said...

"The same scenario takes place in most every home around the world every day - mom has her hands full, is holding or nursing a baby, cooking dinner, or otherwise occupied, and a small child asks her to get something. So she asks another family member to help the child. This is just normal family functioning. How can this be construed as Michelle being neglectful of Jordyn?"

Not Exactly - Michelle COULD HAVE called out to Jana or another famly member and asked them to help Jordyn, but instead she told Jordyn to go find Jana and ask her. In a house full of people, including a lot strangers, and everyone looking like "just knees" to a one year old.

Anonymous said...

Logic question for you: Since Michelle is the newest baby's buddy (until she's preggers with the next), and Jimbob is Michelle's buddy always, how can it not be considered Jimbob's jurisdiction to do lots and lots of infant care?

Suzie said...

I don't recall where I read it, but Josie is not going on the DC trip. Recall, Michelle said on the last episode that Josie was pretty much going to be confined to the house, and mostly the bedroom, for the first year, although I am not clear whether that's birth age or gestational age (which would keep her homebound until next March).

Funny how that came down from "two years in a bubble" from the chicken pox episode. I don't know a lot about micropremies, but I do know that there are problems that can present after she appears to be completely well, ie. off oxygen and all monitors. While Michelle did concede this could happen, I don't get a sense that they think it will happen to THEM.

This is just MHO, but I don't see the Duggar parents walking through life with humility AT ALL; their attitude has done a 180 in the five or so years since their first special. I'd also lump Josh in there as well; he earned his well-publicized nickname. It's a miracle the oldest girls and JD remain humble, hard working mini-parents, but although Jessa and Jinger are still spouting the right buzzwords, they seem more "normal" and the kids from the twins on down, who don't remember life without a camera stuck in their face are a totally different animal altogether and if anyone is going to leave the fold, it will be from this group, likely a younger boy who is in competition with his 7-9 older brothers for the few businesses their skill set alllows them to run. I imagine the resentment toward Josh will be harsh once those boys realize what he was given to start out his cushy adulthood compared to what they will have to claw to earn.

Anonymous said...

I don't want to give TLC any ideas (since they seem to respond to blog criticism, but aren't Jana and John David TWINS?

Has anyone seen any evidence that they share any kind of a close twin bond?

Yes, I realize they are fraternal and do not share a gender, but STILL....

And what about the other set of - twins, Jeremiah and Jedidah - are they not also twins? Why do we see no special closeness with these two twin brothers?

Then there's the whole mass of males in the middle, James, Jason, Justin - do we ever see them bonding as brothers?

I dunno... not really buying into the super closeness concept in this family. Not saying they dislike one another, but they surely do not seem to connect with each other as much as many other, more normal (in size and mentality) families do....

Anonymous said...

I know Michelle was holding Josie and she couldn't tend to Jordyn. But that is exactly what makes the whole thing so sad. Michelle cannot physically tend to her small children because she's always carrying around a new baby. It's sad that the very smallest things in life that a mother should be doing, Michelle literally cannot do it. And its those little things that bond mothers to their children. I don't see any bonds at all between Michelle and Jordyn.

Another thing is, I agree that now Michelle is holding Josie as an excuse to do even less around the house and for her other children. Don't get me wrong. I totally understand that Josie is a special needs baby but now Michelle has a legitimate excuse for not doing anything.

Btw, I thought the Bontragers singing was horrible.

Anonymous said...

Along those lines of reasoning then, no family should have more than one child because when a baby is born the mother can no longer meet her older child's needs all by herself because she has to hold and feed the baby. In that sense, Jordyn Duggar is actually lucky, she has many older siblings who can give her love and help meet her needs. Most children her age don't have that. I'm not saying that siblings can replace a mother's love and attention, it doesn't. But they can add to the group of people who love and help care for the child and enrich the child's life with even more love and attention. I do see that happening in the Duggar household

Anonymous said...

Well, I think Michelle is burned out from so many kids. It's not about having only one child. It's the quantity. She cannot possibly care for the needs of that many children after so many years.

Anonymous said...

"Not Exactly - Michelle COULD HAVE called out to Jana or another famly member and asked them to help Jordyn, but instead she told Jordyn to go find Jana and ask her. In a house full of people, including a lot strangers, and everyone looking like "just knees" to a one year old. "


Michelle did call to Jana. She said "Go ask Jana!" to Jordyn and then called to Jana that Jordyn needed something. Apparently it was successful because Jordyn found Jana without trouble and got what she wanted.

Donna said...

There's a thing that continues to bug me when I read about the Duggars vs. "most people". For example, "Most children her age don't have that" (older siblings who can help/take care of the them.) How do any of us truly know what "most" people do or don't do and what "most children" have or don't have? This is as presumptious as the Duggar supporters who claim that people are making unjust judgments and accusations about them.

This is the same type of talk that the Duggars use and it is a major reason that I am turned off of them. Not only do they make vast general statements about others, but they've trained their children to do the same.

Siblings are nice, but they can never take the place of the love and attention of a mother. Little Josie is a turning point for the whole family; she does and will require much more care than any of the children prior to her. Michelle was already in over her head with the children before Josie came along. Now, she is straddled with a lot of responsibility, the type of responsibility and non-stop work that comes with taking care of tiny baby with special needs, the extent to which no one really knows. On one hand, I feel for her as I would any mother. On the other hand, knowing that she will hand over the reigns of responsibility for Josie's care to another one of her daughters should she become pregnant with #20 and subsequently risk her own life and her unborn baby's life is just really too much. I don't know, it just isn't fun and games anymore...things aren't going as well as they did in the past and they barely made it out of the woods with Josie and Michelle's health this last time. And they are ready to tempt fate again? Some people will say that this is "living by faith", I don't think it is (IMO).

Anonymous said...

"The girls are raised to live frugally and not equate happiness with materialism. I do think they are content where they are now but I do not think when it is the right time with the right mate they will remain living at home because their potential date can not give them the same standard of living that they are now living.

Most young people know when they leave their parents home they will not start off with all that they parents have adquired. I know many may want that but it is not realistic"

I think they would miss the iPhones, the freebies and other material comforts they seem to enjoy so much... despite their frugal upbringing.

JB has his toys, the ATVS, the golf carts, etc. and his kids have their phones, too. So yes, they may have been raised frugally, but they sure have gotten used to creature comforts enough not to say no to freebie product placements and to enjoy the toys they get

Anonymous said...

Re: the "like-minded" Bontragers. A few days ago I looked at their website, briefly read the family bios, then clicked on their schedule. I don't see how there is ANY homeschooling (or even how they fully run a family farm) going on. CONSTANT, like ten times a month touring. No structure, I don't see how there could be enough hours of school. Absolutely disgraceful.

Re: hypocricy. The Duggars make use of the medical profession in emergencies. But their own kids do not have enough highschool to take Pre Med at a university. In no way are they encouraged or supported to become doctors. Can you imagine if one of their daughters wanted to become a doctor? No...they "have housekeeping in their hearts."

"In their hearts" seems to be a CODE WORD in christian conservative fundamentalist circles that the parents use to mean the children actually think & believe their parents agenda is what they also really desire.

On a side note, at 18 or 19 why on earth does Jill still have braces on her teeth?

New Jersey

Ally said...

"The Duggars make use of the medical profession in emergencies. But their own kids do not have enough highschool to take Pre Med at a university. In no way are they encouraged or supported to become doctors."

This is not true, it has been stated on here that the Duggars use the CD-ROM version of Switched on School House, yes they take classes on the bible, but like any good Christian School they also have an advanced curriculum.

In an episode a while ago, one of the crewmember's children commented that the Duggar Children spend 8 hours every day on School. Michelle has also mentioned that they do very well on the Arkansas State Tests. Here is the curriculum, if you're interested.

Notice things like Pre-Calculus are on there, notice that they take Chemistry. Notice that the grade 9 curriculum includes Algebra 1, when most students in high school start out in Pre-Algebra. A lot of people that take these same courses in high school go on to become Doctors.

Switched On School House Grade 9
New Testament Survey
World Geography
English 1
Algebra 1
Intergrated Physics&Chemistry
http://www.aophomeschooling.com/switched-on-schoolhouse/grade-9/

Grade 10
Old Testament Survey
World History
English 2
Geometry
Biology
http://www.aophomeschooling.com/switched-on-schoolhouse/grade-10/

Grade 11
Bible Doctrine
American History
English 3
Algebra 2
Chemistry
http://www.aophomeschooling.com/switched-on-schoolhouse/grade-11/

Grade 12
Christian Faith&Living
Government&Economics
English 4
Pre-Calculus
Physics
http://www.aophomeschooling.com/switched-on-schoolhouse/grade-12/

Anonymous said...

That curriculum looks very through. Thank you for posting that. But the fact remains that the homeschooled Bontrager family is constantly traveling & the homeschooled Duggar family is constantly shown going on "baby" educational trips. There is NO WAY these children have the structure of being IN SCHOOL or spend enough hours at academics.

The Duggar children barely speak proper english. Joyanna said the word "ain't" right to the TV camera. If that were my daughter & she said "ain't" I would be so embarrassed!

And they are NOT encouraged or supported to become doctors because they are taught that "evolution is a lie" & that precludes taking any advanced science classes. In conservative christian circles all of the emphasis seems to be on homebased businesses & being debtfree. How much need is there really for full time midwives in the U.S.? Almost everyone has their baby in a hospital, where it is safe, again except for the conservative christians.

Anyway, if what I originally posted wasn't true, it remains to be seen what the Duggar kids do for careers & if any of them did become medical doctors. I hope when the show is over there is still a way to find out what happened to all of them.

New Jersey

Anonymous said...

I'm really sorry, but there is no way the Duggar kids spend 8 hours a day in school. Jim Bob himself said four hours, and that's pushing it, with the amount of time this family is on the road or at special filming events.

I don't think there is any schooling at all happening, and if there is, how pathetic to think that a 16 or 17 year old (Blessa Jessa) is in charge. Pathetic.

Anonymous said...

It was interesting to see the switched on school house courses.

My question is do they finish all the way through the switched on school house 12th grade if they "graduate" at 16?

Anonymous said...

d everyone looking like "just knees" to a one year old. "

-----------------

No, even a one-year old can quickly and easily identify its own mom. Heck, even a baby can do so, by looking around to identify it's momma. Jordyn didn't just walk up to a random person to seek help - she approached her biological mother, who didn't bother to take the time to find out what she wanted before shooing her away to a sister-mom.

Michelle is overwhelmed and cannot mother her little ones, but refuses to admit it. If those older girls up and left tomorrow, she and JimBob would be so cranky and lost!

Anonymous said...

Sad to say, but my dog pays more attention to her 8 week old puppies than Michelle does to her children. If only one gets out of her sight she gets very anxious until she finds it.

Sharla said...

It's OK to discuss the SOS curriculum, but it is not a discussion about your or your child's school or your local school district. Thanks.

Allison said...

Soundman Jim's daughter said in an episode that the children are in school all year round, which probably helps in having them graduate a couple years early. Also, since they are on their own schedule, they can advance when they are finished, rather than waiting for an arbitrary school year to conclude before moving on.

Anonymous said...

Re: SOS curriculum

Does SOS or Michelle motivate the advanced Duggar kids to complete classes beyond what they are required? I know, from a recent episode, that Jessa supposedly took more classes than was required... but was that of her own initiative, or did her parents see her breeze through basic classes and require her to take more challenging classes? For an advanced student, the required SOS curriculum is limited.

Second, I see they have to take bio, chem, and physics-- but do they have any access to science labs? Sure, you can learn how to balance an equation and do physics formulas, but I don't see the point in taking on science without getting hands-on, at least at some point.

Last-- there are several other important subjects, like art, tech shop, wood shop, music theory, etc. Do the Duggars learn how to make pottery or draw linear perspective? Can they build an electrical circuit? I know they play in an orchestra, but do they learn music theory? (it's an entirely different animal than just learning how to play in an orchestra)

Supposedly, the Duggars use other Homeschooling methods, too, with SOS-- hopefully that fills in some gaps. I am a big proponent of homeschooling, and I hope that these Duggar kids are getting what they deserve (a top-notch education).

Anonymous said...

"My question is do they finish all the way through the switched on school house 12th grade if they "graduate" at 16?"


Answer: Yes. The Duggars have stated this is the case. Also evidenced by the fact that the graduated kids have earned GED's.


"How much need is there really for full time midwives in the U.S.? Almost everyone has their baby in a hospital, where it is safe, again except for the conservative christians."


Answer: Lots. This statement is an inaccurate generalization. Thousands of women in the U.S. each year have their babies outside of hospitals, assisted by midwives, in a variety of facilties and settings. Their reasons for doing so are varied as well, and are not limited to just "the conservative Christians" by any means.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to see those kids do even basic algebra, write a basic five paragraph essay, discuss even a couple of important historic events, explain the water cycle or any of the myriad basic requirements for a high school grad. I would imagine that they are sadly lacking in all of the above. They're too busy taking field trips for little kids or caring for little kids to focus on curriculum that high school kids are actually doing.

Anonymous said...

No, even a one-year old can quickly and easily identify its own mom. Heck, even a baby can do so, by looking around to identify it's momma. Jordyn didn't just walk up to a random person to seek help - she approached her biological mother, who didn't bother to take the time to find out what she wanted before shooing her away to a sister-mom.

Michelle is overwhelmed and cannot mother her little ones, but refuses to admit it. If those older girls up and left tomorrow, she and JimBob would be so cranky and lost!

*************************

I don’t disagree with this, but countless times I’ve had my own jeans-clad leg clasped by a toddler who got confused by all the jeans-legs in a group, and both of my own children did it as well. Jordyn’s picking out Michelle in that crowd may have been more of a coincidence than her actually looking for her mother – I suspect she was just looking for someone she recognized and Michelle was the first one she came across. Unfortunately, the message that got reinforced was that momma is not a “go to” person – little ones remember the person that satisfied their need, in this case, Jana.
I agree the littlest ones are not forming the strong parental pond all children deserve, especially with Michelle. I held both of my children in my arms (I have two – two arms, two children) all the time when they were babies and toddlers, as did my husband. There is no substitute for that close, personal parent-child contact in building a feeling of comfort and safety for children. Also, if either of us sat down, we could handle a third child in our laps for comforting, story time, watching a video – many things!

Anonymous said...

Answer: Yes. The Duggars have stated this is the case. Also evidenced by the fact that the graduated kids have earned GED's.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

I’m confused by this – do the Duggar children earn GED’s, or do they actually get a highschool diploma? These two things are not the same. A GED is General Education Degree, it is not a high school equivalency degree. Colleges, employers, and maybe the military(?) do not recognize a GED as equal to a highschool diploma.

Ally said...

I looked up the SOS electives:
State History like Arkansas for example
American Literature
British Literature
Business Computer Information Systems
Civics
The Civil War
College Planner
COnsumer Math
Earth Science
Elementary French
Elementary Spanish
Essentials of Math
Family and Consumer Science
Foundations For Living
French 1
French 2
GED Preparatory History and Geography
GED Preparatory Language Arts
GED Preparatory Math
GED Preparatory Science
Those are probably used to prepare for the GED after taking all the courses
Health Quest for Grades 4-7
High School Health
Intergrated Physics and Chemistry
Pre-Algebra
Secondary French
Secondary Spanish
Spanish 1
Spanish 2
Essentials of Communication
The story of the Constitution
Trigonometry
Twentieth Century American History
Vietnam Era
World Geography

It's quite possible that they just learn science through theory rather than hands on.

Cyn said...

The Duggar children barely speak proper english. Joyanna said the word "ain't" right to the TV camera. If that were my daughter & she said "ain't" I would be so embarrassed!

***********************
Then ya must not a been southern born and bred.... cause we says it all the time...

(sarcasm intended with my grammar)

Anonymous said...

"The girls are raised to live frugally and not equate happiness with materialism".

*********************************

That, by itself, can be a commendable life goal, that is to refrain from believing happiness comes from materialism.

However, for a dad to be pulling in the TLC bucks and STILL have his kids sleeping on Pack n Plays and used (by strangers) mattresses as well as clothing kids in pre-owned shoes goes way beyond anything commendable.

Since the Patriarch apparently gets a major vote in the marriageability of potential male courters for his daughters, will his standards be equally low for a husband to provide used mattresses and shoes for JimBob's daughters and grandchildren?

If so, gee, thanks, dad.

Anonymous said...

" Do the Duggars learn how to make pottery or draw linear perspective? Can they build an electrical circuit? I know they play in an orchestra, but do they learn music theory?"

I graduated from a decent, accredited high school, and went on to a university where I received a Bachelor of Science and graduated with honors. And I never did a single one of those things listed above. Linear perspective sounds vaguely familiar, maybe something from art class or geometry? Otherwise, I've never done the other things ever in my life. The point of high school is not to do everything under the sun, and only then has one received an adequate education.

Concerning the hands-on science, Michelle reported in their book that they have a lady come into their home regularly who does hands-on science with the kids, and has for years. This lady is a retired science schoolteacher, so those bases should be pretty well covered there.

Anonymous said...

While it is true that the older kids may understand that they're not going to start off married life with all they have now,I really can't see them settling for too far beneath what they have grown up with.I don't think any of them would be particularly happy in a house the size the Bates' was before the addition,at least not with that many family members in it.I think they have had it too good to settle for that.

What goes for you doesn't apply to me said...

"The girls are raised to live frugally and not equate happiness with materialism".

I bet that's true. "The girls" ARE raised to expect nothing, but Jim Bob raises himself to equate his happiness with an array of toys that he purchased for himself. For examples, look in his yard, garage, shed, and anywhere else he can stuff his material hoard.

Turn in one of the golf carts in exchange for a few new mattresses and stop making the little ones sleep in make-shift bedding like they're staying at a Red Cross emergency shelter or something.

Ally said...

They earn a General Education Diploma, General Equivalency Diploma, or Graduate Equivalency Degree otherwise known as the GED.

Ally said...

"I'd like to see those kids do even basic algebra, write a basic five paragraph essay, discuss even a couple of important historic events, explain the water cycle or any of the myriad basic requirements for a high school grad. I would imagine that they are sadly lacking in all of the above. They're too busy taking field trips for little kids or caring for little kids to focus on curriculum that high school kids are actually doing."

You should check out the wikipedia page on the GED, before you think that the Duggar children can't do Algebra or write an essay. To pass the GED and the older Duggar Children have, there was an episode with Jill being happy that she passed it, they have to have knowledge equivalent to a C average in High school.

Here's the requirement for part of Language Arts and Writing Particularly.

"This part of the "Language Arts: Writing" test requires the student to write an essay on an assigned topic in 45 minutes. Persons who finish Part I early may apply the remaining time to their essays. A passing essay must have well focused main points, clear organization, and specific development of ideas, and demonstrate the writer's control of sentence structure, punctuation, grammar, word choice, and spelling. There is no minimum word count.[citation needed] The essay should be long enough to develop the topic adequately."

So there you go, I'd say they know how to write an essay.

Anonymous said...

I believe that the GED is accepted at most colleges and probably by the military-- can't you drop out of HS and still join up?

Anyway, I reference my community college on this one-- they had a huge GED test-taking center. I believe their motivation was that you could take the test and go to community college before entering a University. So, the Duggars aren't without any higher education with a GED-- there's always junior and community colleges.

Ally said...

"So, the Duggars aren't without any higher education with a GED-- there's always junior and community colleges."

Exactly and not only that, but if the Duggar Children wanted to go to college and that's an if right now, because we really don't know if they do or not. Anyway, if they wanted to go to college, there are colleges that will accept students with a GED, although those colleges require a 500-600 out of 800 on the GED. For some universities this suffices as a grade because the score you get is equal to a letter grade average in high school. They also can take ACT/SAT Tests also, if college is really what they want.

But the junior/community college would work too as an Associate Degree would be valued a lot more than a high school education.

Point is, if the Duggar Children truly want to go to college, a GED will not stop them from doing so and since the SOS curriculum has a College Planning elective, it's possible that it explains how to go on to college with a GED.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

One does not know what the Duggar kids would settle for, however, most new couples do not buy homes that are equal to what their parents have at the time they move out.

Josh and his wife have a small home, perhaps about the size of the Bates older home before it was remodeled. I would think that any of the girls would be happy to have a home regarldess of the size.

I have been doing some research some years ago with people like minded as the Duggars and they are raising their boys to have homes built and paid for before they get married. One of the fathers actually suggested to those who wanted to buy wedding gifts building materials to build a very small basic home that can be added onto later. I can not remember the family's name or I would look up their link.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

I found the family which I said the sons have their homes built or ready to be build before the marriage. It is the Maxwell family. I know the Duggars are familiar with this family as they use the "chore packs" idea and the schedule from this family as they too homeschool. I wonder if any of their sons are interested in the Duggar girls.

The name of the book is : Preparing Sons to Provide for a Single-Income Family

http://www.titus2.com/ecommerce/products/prod_listing.php/1130

I do beleive that this is the family in which the father had a list of items to build a small house for his son and future daughter in law. The list was broken down to small items such as nails etc. I would not be surprised if one of the Duggar girls end up in a home such as this and be content even though they presently live in a rather large house.

Scarier than Scary! said...

Is the Maxwell family the one that all the females (mother and daughters wear matching ugly jumpers)? This is the family that would be the matches for the Duggar daughters? If that's the case and I was one of the Duggar girls, trust me when I say that would run away as fast as possible and as far away as possible. I don't care if the Devil himself and his pitchfork and all of his minions came to greet me, it would be well worth it.

The Maxwell family gives me the heebie jeebies! They are scarier to me than all the horror movie put together! Why might you ask? Because the horror movies are not real, they are fiction. The Maxwell family is real.

The Maxwells have a book: "Preparing Sons to Provide for a Single-Income Family"? In my opinion, people should be able to provide for themselves, whether they are male or female. I don't care if they are a one income or twenty incomes. What do they advocate training the daughters to do???

No way! said...

The Maxwells are the family with a 31 year old son who has been living at home until his new courtship and upcoming marriage. The 28 year old daughter is still living at home too, and hoping for marriage and homemaking. No independent hopes and dreams---still living like 12 year olds.

And yes, they all wear matching jumpers to the ground. They are even scarier in their extreme and rigid beliefs than the Duggars, and if I were one of the Duggar kids, I would just want to run as far away as possible from that family of potential suitors!!

hannah said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Biyv0Jyv00w

they went out again to speak and interview.

MandySue said...

A couple of random thoughts-

Being from Arkansas I watched to Arkansas football game on tv today. Do the Duggars watch college football? Not many NIKE moments there.

Do the Duggars know how to call the Hogs? That is a requirement if you live in Arkansas.

How sad that they find fault in football

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Hannah, for posting the link showing the Duggars at the Values Voters Summit.

So everyone was there, including Michelle.

Who was watching Josie who obviously got left behind in Little Rock (or...Josie had to ride in the smelly bus?).

Josie's going to be one confused little girl......always someone different taking care of her.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

I doubt if the Duggars find fault in football being the boys play it.

I think they may play it as a family.

Anonymous said...

If her lack of knowledge caused her to lose a kid. How is having the knowledge that getting pregnant again might result in somthing bad happening? How is that any diff?

I also think if someone wants to an abortion, watching the duggars wont change thier mind.

Anonymous said...

"Being from Arkansas I watched to Arkansas football game on tv today. Do the Duggars watch college football? Not many NIKE moments there."


I can't remember if it was from their book or an episode, but Michelle said they get out their TV to watch Razorbacks games sometimes. Plus their boys play football, just not on formal organized teams. Obviously they don't find fault with football.

Anonymous said...

I love the blazer Jill was wearing. I'm so happy to see the girls finally dressing formal. I've seen lots of pictures of the old Duggars where the males are dressed formal with black pants, button down shirts, and ties, but the females don't match the formality because they are wearing prairie dresses.

Also, other ATI/Quiverful families have the same problem, like the Maxwells and even the Bates. The males all have nice, modern, business clothes but the women don't match because they are wearing outdated, home made dresses.

So I'm happy the Duggars are updating.

Celestie said...

I'm so happy to see the girls finally dressing formal.

-----
You have a very good point about the difference is style between the boys and the girls. Although, it looked to me, like most of the girls were wearing cotton blouses and the long skirts. It is too bad they can not wear pretty, yet, modest dresses, to match the men and boys' suits. They do look better than prairie dresses, though.

roddma said...

"The Maxwells are the family with a 31 year old son who has been living at home until his new courtship and upcoming marriage. The 28 year old daughter is still living at home too, and hoping for marriage and homemaking. No independent hopes and dreams---still living like 12 year olds."

His name is Chris. He already had two failed courtships from what I read. What would it hurt some of the siblings living together on their own in an apartment? This kind of over-control may lead to one marrying just to escape the situation.

The Duggar boys may be considered too young for a 28 year old female. Jon David is 20 which only makes an 8 year difference. I wonder what they would think of a female are than 3 years age difference. Many women are older than their husbands.

roddma said...

"I do beleive that this is the family in which the father had a list of items to build a small house for his son and future daughter in law."
What if a Maxwell son meet an independent female with her own house who doesn't want to give it up ? Asking for building materials as wedding gifts seem strange

Anonymous said...

The engaged Maxwell son and his fiancee have agreed to total hands- off until marrigae- not even hand holding, side hugging or touching in any way. Now that is scary! I would hope that even the Duggars wouldn't go to that extreme.
I would hope for better for the Duggar girls than the uber-fudnie Maxwells.

Kitten said...

Do the Duggars watch college football? Not many NIKE moments there.

Well, except for the cheerleaders, and the marching band music, and the dance/drill team, and the shirtless men and the tanktop women in the stands, and don't forget those skintight uniforms, especially after the boys have been sweating for a while. You can read the brand name of their jock straps...lol...and that doesn't even begin to address the commercials the kids might see.

What you and I might consider a Nike moment (were I ever to use such a silly term) are a far cry from what offends or "defrauds" the Duggars.

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