Monday, March 28, Duggars & Bates: 37 & Counting

The Duggar home becomes even more crowded when family friends, the Bates, arrive for a visit, complete with a trip to the George Washington Carver Monument. But a severe cold spreads throughout the two large families, potentially ruining plans.

30 minutes

43 comments:

ennvee said...

I'll be curious to see how the museum treats Carver's rift with Christians, who didn't believe science and religion to be compatible (Carver was ironically very religious).

I'm sure no mention is made of the fact that Carver is an icon in the GLBT community. And because these are the Duggars and Bateses, their children will never know (as they were kept in the dark about the meat and potatoes of Dolly Parton's career).

I guess we will be able to get a timeline on when the visit took place if Kelly announces her pregnancy, which she first blogged about on 2/7 (and were in Chicago a week later for some Gothard-related event).

Figuring out the timelines on these shows has become the most interesting activity for me of late.

I also heard this was the season finale. Can anyone confirm/deny? If so, I think this "season" was much shorter than their previous "seasons."

Krissy said...

This show is the season finale, and I'm thinking that TLC is trying to phase it out of the lineup.

I seriously don't understand what JimBob and Michelle were thinking inviting the Bates to stay with them. It's like, "Oh let's invite a family with 18 kids to come and stay with us and spread germs around our fragile preemie with a compromised immune system!!" Fun times all around!!

I understand they can't turn Josie into another version of the Bubble Boy, but all those kids under one roof is gross and unsanitary. I suppose Jill and Jana will have to put on their "happy faces" and act like they're just thrilled to have to cook and clean up after forty people.

Lisa said...

TLC is calling it the Winter Finale not the season finale which makes me think that it is just taking a short hiatus, much shorter than if it would be the season finale. Otherwise why not just call it the season finale.

As for the timeline I was looking at the Bates blog and Gil Bates posted an entry called "A Visit with the Duggars" at the end of January. According to the post the visit was the last part of a 2 week trip for the Bates family. I don't know how long they had been home before they updated their blog but my guess is they were visiting the Duggars some time in middle to late January, possibly early January.

heavennoseven said...

I think they will flim around the months when Annas baby is born or after. Or is anything major happens. I think it will be back in May or June.

hart&sole said...

It's part of the Duggar's and Bates religion to welcome visitors and they are good friends. Michelle said in an earlier episode that she loved having the Bates because they are so helpful. Although more than enough of the kids got sick at that visit, Josie did not! Nor did the adults. I have issues with the Duggars, too, and don't share their conservative beliefs, I do try to be fair based on the fact that we only see 23 minutes of their lives each week and they can't please everyone.

Chris Upchurch said...

Krissy said:

"I understand they can't turn Josie into another version of the Bubble Boy, but all those kids under one roof is gross and unsanitary."

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Schools have way more kids than that under one roof. It is neither gross nor unsanitary.

Krissy said...

Schools have lots of kids under one roof for six hours a day not 24/7.

Religion or not, it is both gross and unsanitary to have 37 kids staying in one house. And of course Michelle loves the Bates because they do all the grunt work that she can't be bothered doing.

Religilicious said...

"I understand they can't turn Josie into another version of the Bubble Boy, but all those kids under one roof is gross and unsanitary."

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Especially when, in the Duggar residence, kids are permitted to sit and walk on countertops (yes, with their diapers & shoes in place), nose picking by small ones seems more common than good handwashing practices, and dirty laundry piles serve as an indoor playground for the littler Duggarettes.

Unappetizing at best and pathogen breeding grounds at worse.

Yuck.

msrylee said...

I have been disturbed to see the younger blessings walking and sitting on counters, while wearing diapers and shoes, nose picking, etc. As has been stated, we only see a short period of their lives, so I am truly hoping we have just not seen those counters being cleaned and sanitized.

I understand that Josie cannot be kept in a sterile environment, but the areas of food prep and eating, also the bathrooms need to be as clean as possible. JMHO.

ennvee said...

Ah, didn't go far back enough in the Bateses' blog. They have a picture up of a picnic happening at the museum, but they were vague as to whether this the same museum that we know they visited with the Duggars and is an easy 2 hour drive up highway 71 from the Duggar's place.

http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog/page/3/

Look for Alyssa wearing a tan leather jacket during the outing!

Best,

DWOP's Crack(pot) Detective. :)

Cyn said...

I suppose Jill and Jana will have to put on their "happy faces" and act like they're just thrilled to have to cook and clean up after forty people.
***********************
Actually Michelle loves it when the Bates come to visit, she has stated several times that the house is CLEANER when they leave...

And as a side note the jurisdictions have changed again, Jinger and Jessa are the ones doing the cooking, Jana is on kitchen clean-up. But with twice the amount of older kids to help I have no doubt Michelle is right, the house probably IS cleaner when they leave.

Jinger, Jedidiah, and Jackson are currently on laundry duty.

hart&sole said...

It looks like they had a real good time to me. The Duggars and Bates kids always seem to enjoy each other's company even though I would like to see some courting. Personally I especially enjoy episodes when the two families get together. I have a bumper sticker on my van that reads, "Liberal Christian...Religion Without The Hate" So it's not like I'm a Gothard fan, but what the heck, live and let live. The Bates could come visit us, anytime, the Duggars? Don't think I could deal with their 6 little unhousebroken boys, sorry!

heavennoseven said...

Why does Jinger have two chores?

Cyn said...

The list of "chores" are on the photo gallery some one posted over in "March Free discussion" (I think). The older girls didn't have that many chores on that list, and that's probably due to their jobs outside the house, and college courses.

There are enough of the younger ones coming up and filling in. As for Jinger having 2-3 chores, none of the chores they had listed should take ginger more than 30 minutes per day. In total less than 1.5 hours a day doing chores.

Krissy said...

What jobs do they have outside the house? I don't consider working with the volunteer fire department a "job". I also doubt Jill and Jana get called out to many scenes considering they really have no training beyond basic first aid.

I think the whole chore list is completely staged and the reason why the older girls don't have many chores listed is because of the firestorm of criticism that JimBob and Michelle receive over their daughters doing the bulk of the housework/child rearing.

Trust me those girls have way more chores than what's on that list.

Religilicious said...

What jobs do they have outside the house? I don't consider working with the volunteer fire department a "job". I also doubt Jill and Jana get called out to many scenes considering they really have no training beyond basic first aid.

I think the whole chore list is completely staged and the reason why the older girls don't have many chores listed is because of the firestorm of criticism that JimBob and Michelle receive over their daughters doing the bulk of the housework/child rearing.

Trust me those girls have way more chores than what's on that list.

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Agreed - often, untrained people merely get in the way in an emergency situation and serve only to get in the way of the trained personnel. I also doubt that the Duggar women get to DO much on these reported trips to the fire house.

Since these kids supposedly 'graduate' from high school, WHY is there such a delay in their leaving home AT LEAST to get a REAL job in the REAL world and (gasp!) have a boss that is not their Patriarch? It would do these adult women so much good to get out and learn about the world BEYOND the Duggar driveway. WHY must they be kept perennial children?

hart&sole said...

Don't you doubt that at least the older, from Justin upwards, Duggar children would not be one bit comfortable out in the real world? They have been raised to think and act in a certain way. Despite my disagreement with the family belief system, those children are naive, immature, and, well...brainwashed. Why would we wish to make them conform to what is the 'real' world to us and cause them to give up what has to be their core value system? Don't you think nervous breakdowns would ensue? I remember someone asking either Jessa or Jinger what would happen if one of them would rather date than court. Her reply? "That would NEVER happen." She obviously couldn't even envision such a thing.

Religilicious said...

Don't you doubt that at least the older, from Justin upwards, Duggar children would not be one bit comfortable out in the real world? They have been raised to think and act in a certain way. Despite my disagreement with the family belief system, those children are naive, immature, and, well...brainwashed. Why would we wish to make them conform to what is the 'real' world to us and cause them to give up what has to be their core value system? Don't you think nervous breakdowns would ensue? I remember someone asking either Jessa or Jinger what would happen if one of them would rather date than court. Her reply? "That would NEVER happen." She obviously couldn't even envision such a thing.

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Though the Duggar parents chose to vary from the upbringing given by their respective parents, they have made this kind of adult decision almost impossible for their own children. They have accomplished this by encouraging their children to believe those in the larger world are to be judged, feared, avoided.

Is religion really supposed to be about avoidance of interaction with those outside one's own belief system?

Is parenting really supposed to be about crippling one's children to the extent that it is practically impossible for the offspring to take the adult step of defining self, even if this definition differs from the parental beliefs/lifestyle?

It seems the Duggars have a very restrictive concept of their pronunced 'leave and cleave'.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

I do not think adding or double the size of people in that family is going to make much difference to Josie who is quite healthy at this point.

I think they have the Bates over because they enjoy their fellowship.

Kit said...

Is religion really supposed to be about avoidance of interaction with those outside one's own belief system?

Well, for some, yes. In the "mainstream," you have Amish, Chasidic Jews, Roman Catholic ascetic monks and nuns, Buddhist monks and nuns, and Hindu fakirs, to name a few, who choose to "remain apart" from the world, either literally or figuratively.

That said, it is generally unusual for a Protestant-based Christian to follow such a practice, as there is no history of this in Protestantism. Plus, the Duggars observe this separation because Gothard tells them to, not because it's part of any Protestant belief or tradition.

However, they are particularly adept at taking advantage of "the things that are Caesar's" (TV reality show money, freebies, etc.) while hiding inside their cocoon. Some find that admirable; others find it hypocritical.

Cyn said...

Both Ammish and Mennonite are Protestant... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation

Until I found the Duggar blogs I didn't know who or what a Gothard was, and I grew up in different churches that preached "be ye OF this world not IN it". That was taught in Catholic, Southern Baptist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Universal, and a Methodist church... Each church had its own views as to how far one went with the thought, but to say it's not taught in Protestantism is untrue.

ennvee said...

I do not think adding or double the size of people in that family is going to make much difference to Josie who is quite healthy at this point.

===================================

Josie was still on O2 when that episode was filmed at the end of January. If Michelle went anywhere NEAR those sick kids with a child whose immune system is still heavily compromised, she is really taking a lot of chances with that poor little baby.

As for the "field trip," a lot of apparently "sick" kids still managed to hop on the bus that day. And surprise! Even the Park Ranger had to measure her words when describing the kids' knowledge of Carver. Had they not found out the man was Christian, they would never have made the trip; that appears to be their criteria for going pretty much anywhere, including the Christian-owned skating rink.

I wonder how long it takes Princess Erin to do her hair in the mornings, or whether she sleeps in rollers because those perfectly coiffed curls don't come naturally, or from the Duggargirl crunchy perm factory.

hyperactress23 said...

"Until I found the Duggar blogs I didn't know who or what a Gothard was, and I grew up in different churches that preached "be ye OF this world not IN it". That was taught in Catholic, Southern Baptist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Universal, and a Methodist church... Each church had its own views as to how far one went with the thought, but to say it's not taught in Protestantism is untrue."

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I've been raised Southern Baptist, and it's actually "IN the world, not OF it". That's a saying many go by, although it is not actually in the Bible. The basic meaning of it though is that you should be in the world - out among the people that populate it and the culture you live in - you should not be of the world - meaning living by the sins accepted by the world, living according to the sin nature that others live by. Clearly some religions do not follow this, but that is how Baptists (including Southern) believe. (Or so I've had spouted at me in countless Sunday school classes...) The Duggars are clearly not in this lot though, although they have been out in the world more since the show than it appeared they'd been before the show.

rcadra2 said...

A few things bothered me about this episode. I felt sorry for the Bates. They drove 12 hours, with an infant and a pregnant Kelly, stayed barely 4 days, boarded their van, all sick and drove 12 hours home?

Did they get kicked out by the Duggars? Why didn't Michelle just take Josie over to Josh and Anna's for a few nights?

I also didn't like the way the Duggar girls kept blaming the illness on the Bates, and then someone brought up how the Bates gave them all chickenpox.

Sometimes things just happen. Why blame your friends for the illness? The Bates didn't purposely get the Duggars sick. The Duggars would have picked up the flu somewhere else if not from the Bates.

stargatedragon said...

I wouldn't mind if TLC went back to the idea of just doing "specials" once a year or whatever updates they use to keep some sort of interest in the show. The dropping ratings along wih the time shift show me that the audience just isn't there anymore - not that it's a bad thing, but the wave of multiple births and large families on reality shows has run its course and now it's time tomove on.

Having said that, I'm not sure if the Duggars can move on. Much like the Gosslins after their show went off the air (or whatever it's doing these days) there's going to be a period of adaptation where there's no cameras and now the harsh reality of their lives comes home to roost. No more cameras, no more attention... much less money.

I do hope TLC just walks away and we find out in a year or two what's up with the kids - and if anyone has dared leave the compound.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

We do not know why they left after 4 days. Maybe that was the orginal plan and they had to get back for other reasons. Just stating that they caught the flu from the Bates is not mean spirited, it is just a fact, nothing more so do not make it out to be something "rude" on their part.

ennvee said...

I'm not one to defend the Duggars, but to be honest, they really can't blame the Bateses for giving the Duggars either chicken pox or the colds. Both families were at an ATI homeschool camp when they were infected with chicken pox (remember, there is an incubation period, which is why they weren't sick during the filming of that movie, but we never saw the tour of the Chick-fil-A factory which happened between movie filming and when they were all sick at home).

Who knows who carried the cold bug? Jessa could have picked it up at the store for all we know. I'm just angered that the Duggars are so cavalier when it comes to exposing Josie to ANY chance of catching ANYTHING, especially during the height of cold and flu season, as this show was.

Pet peeve alert: Learn plurals, for crying out loud...I cringe every time they say the "Bates."

M-A said...

“Though the Duggar parents chose to vary from the upbringing given by their respective parents, they have made this kind of adult decision almost impossible for their own children. They have accomplished this by encouraging their children to believe those in the larger world are to be judged, feared, avoided.”

======

RIGHT! I think it was sad to hear one of the girls saying they shared “religion, chores, and the buddy system” (or something like it) with the Bates’ boys. Is that the extent of their world and interests? Just like Michelle described how great their “guest” was b/c she changes diapers, cleans and cooks. How about “she’s giving, funny, enthusiastic, smart”? What’s the point of merely existing and doing these chores that perpetuate your existence if you have no interests, personality, likes, dislikes, qualities, flaws, talents to develop (outside babies and other chore-related tasks)? Have we EVER seen these kids engaged in ANY discussion other than with the director during interview segments? 21 people in that house and no one has a lively discussion? Even about pre-approved subjects? That can’t be right…

Shelly said...

I thought it was funny when Jim Bob called everyone into the living room for an announcement and Josh says "Are you pregnant?" Haha.

Looks like the show will be back this summer...probably in June around the time the new baby is born.

Religilicious said...

Good point about lively discussions in a household, especially one with so many adults.

My guess is that 'discussion' in Duggar World is a mere rote recitation of the parents' religious beliefs.

I'm doubting debate or (horrors!) differing ideas are welcomed guests at the Duggar abode.

Allison said...

I thought this episode was so boring. The "prank" was boring. The visit to the national park was boring. Even the illness was boring.

I'm not sure how I feel about the whole Josie/illness thing. Obviously Michelle was concerned about it but it didn't stop her from exposing Josie to all those people by having them in the house. I dunno. I suppose you can't just stop living your life when you have a premie, and I know they kept Josie separated, but I dunno. I don't know that much about pre-mature babies to know whether or not that was a good idea. I'm assuming that the Duggars are in constant contact with their doctors and would / would not do something if it put Josie in imminent danger.

Religilicious said...

Commendable IF the Duggars actually gave the bus to the Bates (remember, this is 'reality' tv, so something less than gospel).

However, along the same line as the Duggars accepting donated bags of clothing left on their front porch, perhaps the point is that it is more responsible to limit one's family size to one supportable with one's own income without subsidy.

If you can't afford to transport a busload of offspring, if you can't afford to adequately clothe your children on your own, without donations from others, just maybe family planning is the direction to head.

Sharla said...

19 Kids and Counting (TLC)
- 1.211 million viewers
- 0.9/1 HH
- 0.5/1 A18-49

ennvee said...

I remember reading somewhere that when JimBob bought the new family bus, they gave their bus to the Bateses. I just assumed it was the big bus until I saw pics of the red bus on the Bateses website.

I assume Jim Bob sold the old hockey team bus and wrote off the red bus "
gifted" to the Bateses as a church tax deduction.

Tammy C said...

thought it was funny when Jim Bob called everyone into the living room for an announcement and Josh says "Are you pregnant?" Haha.

Didn't catch Josh saying it but I thought I wonder how many of them thought the parents were going to announce baby 20.

butterfly said...

rcadra2 said

I also didn't like the way the Duggar girls kept blaming the illness on the Bates, and then someone brought up how the Bates gave them all chickenpox.

Sometimes things just happen. Why blame your friends for the illness? The Bates didn't purposely get the Duggars sick. The Duggars would have picked up the flu somewhere else if not from the Bates.
3/28/2011 11:07 PM
@@@@@@
I agree...why blame your friends? It's rude. If they truly felt that way they could have kept those feelings to themselves- like the old saying goes, "If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all."
It's just tactful in situations like that to not place blame.

Lisa said...

They may have jokingly blamed the Bates for this cold but they also blamed themselves for giving the Bates family the chicken pox so to use a bad pun, they can take it as good as they give it

hart&sole said...

Has anyone besides me noticed that Jim Bob is a better person when Gil Bates with him. Gil seems like a focused 'let's get 'er done' type while I find Jim Bob perfectly willing to let the kids do the physical labor. Neither he, nor Michelle, are the poster children for ambition in this 'season of life.'

Andrea said...

I agree, why don't the older girls have REAL jobs?

Allison said...

I've said this before, but you should really google "stay at home daughters."

There is a strong cultural expectation NOT to work for young girls. They are meant to prepare their lives for motherhood and for being a housewife. This is not just a Duggar thing, or even a Gothard thing. There is a strong movement I'm seeing among conservative Christian girls.

That's why they don't have jobs. That's why these college classes are sort of "whatever" classes, because there is no intention from this family, this sub-section of Christian Protestantism for women to ever work.

And if a husband ever did die, the woman and her kids would move back in with their parents until they were able to remarry later.

I know this is counter-culture and isn't appealing to us, but this is what they are thinking.

M-A said...

Allison said "And if a husband ever did die, the woman and her kids would move back in with their parents until they were able to remarry later."

I think it's very unrealistic of the Duggars to have children past the age of 40 and then expect to be PlanB to a widowed daughter at a later age. They may not like it, but our world is filled with people who leave and change. What if the husband leaves? What if he leaves for a non-gothard world and they have to share their kids within THAT world? Do they even know how to teach their children to handle this "exposure" to preserve their culture?

I agree with those who say we can't call the kids successful until we see them fly with their own wings. Seems to me the only method of perpetuating their values is isolation and reproduction. The more they do this, the weaker it'll be in the face of challenging beliefs. If I were this devoted to my principles, I would do more than that to protect it - I would teach my kids MORE about the world so they don't fear or deplore it, and therefore, are less "compromised" by it in the first place.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

When Josh made the statement that work took him away from his family I took that no more than just a statement of fact. What work does not take someone away from their family. I did not take that he does not want to work. I take it that he enjoys being with his family and like most people if they had a choice they rather be with their family than work.

butterfly said...

M-A said
I agree with those who say we can't call the kids successful until we see them fly with their own wings. Seems to me the only method of perpetuating their values is isolation and reproduction. The more they do this, the weaker it'll be in the face of challenging beliefs. If I were this devoted to my principles, I would do more than that to protect it - I would teach my kids MORE about the world so they don't fear or deplore it, and therefore, are less "compromised" by it in the first place.
@@@@@@@@
Good point!! Isn't that kind of how the Amish do it? I am not too familiar with their ways, but I thought they did teach their children about the 'outside' world...
Although the Duggargs' have traveled and been out and about across the states....
About Josh and his works takes him away from family comment- I took it as a complaint. Again, if he wants more time with his family, he can figure out a way to make it happen. Working mothers do this all time.