Free Discussion October 2011

Please use this for Duggar sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, politics, religion, or personal stories.   If the comment is more about you or some other issue than the actual Duggars, please rethink before sending.  Thank you!

72 comments:

The Shaffer Family said...

In regards to flying with oxygen, it is possible it just takes planning. Most planes (esp. the larger trans-Atlantic/Pacific) have specific seats that are equipped with oxygen to be used by guests on oxygen or in case of emergencies.

Also it's highly doubtful the Israeli gov't/or the US Embassy were involved in the least or even cared. They have enough to worry about with ongoing safety concerns to be concerned for people that ignore common sense and travel with a hoard of little ones.

Lindy said...

I was hoping to see an attitude adjustment in at least one of the Duggars after their trip to Scotland and Israel. But after watching promos for the camping episode, it appears that the trip abroad did little, if anything, to give way to enlightenment in spiritual and religious growth in the Duggar clan.

hart&sole said...

Maybe the Israeli Hospital was concerned about it's image? I wasn't suggesting that it was a matter of US/Israeli diplomacy. Would you want to be the doctor who discharged Josie and she died on the plane home? Me, either!!!

tashapork said...

I almost wonder if the doctor flying home with them was less of a medical issue and more of a women alone in a foreign country issue. I really think there could be more to it such as him intending to fly here anyway for a conference. We shall see, but anything is possible

Seriously? said...

"I was hoping to see an attitude adjustment in at least one of the Duggars after their trip to Scotland and Israel. But after watching promos for the camping episode, it appears that the trip abroad did little, if anything, to give way to enlightenment in spiritual and religious growth in the Duggar clan."

*********************************

Little hope exists for growth when individuals are ignorant and proud of it.

The Duggars fall into this category IMO.

positiveparent said...

The trip abroad came after the camping trip.

Lindy said...

My apologies on the timing of the camping episode and their trips abroad to Scotland and Israel. Thanks for clearing that up. I still would like to see if there is a difference in views with any of the Duggars post-overseas trip.

Does anyone know what CollegePlus means by "regionally accredited schools"? Are these schools Board of Regents approved for their respective states? I would like to know what grad and law schools accept CollegePlus graduates.

ennvee said...

The thing is, you can't GRADUATE from College Plus. Even the schools that will take their credits will require most transfers to take all the upper division courses required for their major at a brick and mortar university. I took some lower division stuff online, but when the work gets tougher, it's far more valuable to have live interaction with your classmates and professor (even if it's via Skype).

Most college admissions people I've talked with will accept about 70 units completed via AP and/or CLEP testing, tops. Maybe their "locally accredited universities" will take more, but any accredited university is not going to reward someone a degree for CLEPing their way through all 120 units of college. IOW, you can't be a CollegePlus! graduate; the only graduation is in successfully transferring to a real college - the type Jill will have to attend if she's going to actually get that BSN.

Anonymous said...

There are six regional institutional accreditors in the United States. These institutions are responsible for determining the accreditation a college/university has. Some individual colleges and programs also have additional accreditation to go through (i.e. the law school within a university - the law school has accreditation through one body, the university through another).

ennvee said...

Thanks for the clarification. Having attended top national universities whose accreditation would never be in question, this is an area that has never come to my attention.

I'm curious how many of these schools are distance learning vs. brick and mortar, or, as even big schools are becoming these days, semi-hybrids.

Jill's particular educational path could never be completed online since she'll have to do clinical rotations as part of her coursework to attain a BSN. She could encounter just about anything, most of which she's been told is bad and sinful in the eyes of Gothard.

I have a feeling this will quietly go away once the series is canceled and we'll find out that she got married just as it was time for her to transfer to "real" school and she became a doula instead.

londonbridges said...

Is she going to deliver babies at home like Ms. Teresa, do you think? I also agree that when the time comes for 'real' schooling, she will marry her chosen mate, and indeed be a doula. I am in no way knocking doulas, as I think they have their place in a medical team. I'm just not convinced they should be the primary care-giver at a home birth. JMHO. Apparently Ms. Teresa is responsible for the well-being of the newly-delivered baby at home as well. Will Jill be a well-baby care provider at a home birth as well? Just curious.

Sharla said...

I rejected all the comments in the queue. In case you are wondering why, the topic here is the Duggars not other people's opinions (and saying why they should not express the opinion that they did), accreditation of univerities, or the benefits or lack thereof of online classes. As fun as many of those topics might be, that isn't the purpose of this blog. Thanks.

Sharla said...

After discussing things being off topic, I'm putting this up but not because I want to begin a Roloff discussion. It refutes the Duggar claim of how little time the crew is there.

This is from a recent interview with Matt Roloff and his comment about tiring it was to make the show.

"They talk about the heavy filming schedule through the show's history. Matt explains that filming was going five to six days a week and a crew of two 12-hour shifts. A crew would come in at say 7am and then they would overlap with another crew that would go until midnight. That was a constant cycle. They did that 11 months a year. They were doing 48 episodes a year and an average episode takes 2 weeks of filming content.

taurus0385 said...

First time posting on here. I will keep it short I promise. I thought tonights episode with the schooling was very disorganized. Maybe it was just me. Also what is the big emergency next week? Just curious. I hope I dont get chased off here like they try to do on the 19 kids and counting fb page.

hart&sole said...

How about Jill as an ultrasound technician? That might be doable for her and not shock her conservative beliefs.

Seriously? said...

I found the reference to the Roloff filming schedule VERY interesting. It proves once again to me that the Duggars, just like the Gosselins, are nothing more, nothing less than a TLC brand, and will absolutely lie by omission and commission in order to keep their respective brands alive and lucrative.

Allison said...

Does the same production company work on both the Roloffs and the Duggars? And does the Roloff and the Duggars try to cover the same amount of material in their episodes?

I personally have always thought the crew must be at the Duggars a lot more, only because the kids seem so incredibly familiar with them and the crew's family (like when Jim's daughters came to visit).

Stephanie said...

Trying to catch up, I have just 3 blessings myself and they keep me very busy.

I just saw the episode when Dan from GMA is there and he said something that I have always thought. The Duggar kids do run wild will w/almost no particular schedule. I always am looking for danger for my kids (maybe too protective) but school and sports, ballet really keeps us on a tight schedule. That swing was 30 feet in the air and those kids are little to do that.

Also, what will Jim Bob say about Burkas? Please let them see woman in burkas so we can get an interview. I guess the poor little boys won't have to poke their eyes out as long as the woman are literally covered head to toe.

rcadra2 said...

I just saw that Jim Bob and Michelle are speaking at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va today. Five of the children are with them. They really are all over the place.

http://www.wset.com/story/15622876/duggars-family-speaks-at-liberty-university


And here's a video link to Josie, it looks like it was put online to prove that she is healthy after the scare in Israel (and hush up the naysayers like myself!). It's odd though, you can hear Jim Bob speaking, so he must have filmed it. And it doesn't look like they are at home. I'm not sure where it was filmed.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/09/28/duggar-19-kids-and-counting-jimbob-josie-jill-michelle-tlc-israel-vacation-health-scare/

tulip said...

The younger "generation" of Duggar kids have always been seen running wild, and the idea that most of them are boys shouldn't be an excuse (Michelle has mentioned several times when things go awry that "they're boys!"). In the earliest episodes when the oldest kids were younger, things seemed much more organized and tamed. Safety has always been on my radar-I have yet to see kiddy gates installed around the house, and the main staircase. Big wheeled toys and "outdoor" stuff is played with recklessly indoors, and the house is certainly not shown to be baby-proofed. But since the beginning, Jim Bob has never really showed himself to be a "safety-first" kind of guy (ex. home construction/remodeling episodes?)

Stephanie said...

I have been on a Duggar Rant today. I did find the photo of James (I think) who fell off the stage in Atlanta and a video of all on the bus this summer.

The boy who is hurt did have crutches behind his back and if you look closely under his pantlegs it looks to me like a cast is under there. On the video Josiah is giving the tour and really tries to downplay the injuries when cameraman asks him if he is ok. Josiah says it was "only" 7 stiches, a few broken teeth, and a cracked jawbone. Doesn't even mention the leg. Poor kid, you know he is in pain, on a hot, crowded, stinky bus with at least 25 people. And one of the boys, gasp, has on shorts.

On another note, isn't Josie and Josiah the SAME NAME? Along with Joy-Anna and Johannah? Or does naming your baby something meaningful matter? I do like Michael, maybe Matthew would be next.

Sharla said...

Anna's brothers are not on topic here unless it relates to their appearance on the Duggar TV show. Thank you.

Please remember anonymous comments are likely to be rejected. It's easy to pick a screen name and use it.

Stephanie said...

July 25,2011 Video behind the scenes in Atlanta Www.livingwaters.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=2771&Itemid=314&lang=en So crowded and hot. Jason is hurt with Josiah as the new and improved Josh but Josh has to get some camera time. Poor forgotten Jordyn latches onto the camera mans leg begging for attention. Expensive coffee maker on bus that I bet the didn't buy used. Not that I care if they spend their money but don't act like you don't splurge. A duggar in shorts, but I don't blame them, do you know how hot it is in July in Atlanta? Lots to see in a 3 minute tape.

Andrea said...

Does anyone else kind of feel heartbroken for the college aged daughters. They accompany thier parents to Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va, but can't stay and take some classes??

tulip said...

Yes, I feel sorry for their college-age kids, and all the other kids once they reach college age as well...hence my post (regarding that exact issue) under "Schoolhouse Duggars".

Sharla said...

If you want to know why a comment was not published, please send the comment in an email to me. Comments are not approved or rejected based on your approval or disapproval of the Duggars. However, ignoring basic grammar especially typing in all lowercase, will frequently get a comment bounced. Using initials instead of names will usually end in a rejected comment. Also getting "high and mighty" in your comment and typing a lecture or being more about why you don't like homeschooling or homebirths or something else the Duggars do or don't do than about the Duggars themselves is not going to work well here.

Again, if that doesn't answer your question, email me.

Hannah said...

I heard they will get to meet Bethany Hamilton next week. I will turn in for that. A truly inspiring person.

londonbridges said...

I have a comment about waiting x number of days before having relations after the birth of a baby. This, too, is Old Testament law, and again, the Duggars have chosen to follow Old. I'm not sure if there is any valid Biblical reason for them to wait, but I'm sure that JimBob and Michelle could give an explanation. I will look forward to their response in a future episode, as we know this blog is read by them. The standard time to abstain used to be six weeks, and I assume that was to allow healing to take place. Maybe some of the medical professionals here could explain further.

Sharla said...

Digger, if you want to have a discussion email me as I've said several times.

Anonymous said...

I don't see anything unusual about the young boys running around and occasionally getting hurt, maybe even seriously hurt once in a while.

They're boys, it's what we do. I did all kinds of crazy things as a kid and got hurt now and then, but I survived.

But if you multiply the normal goofing off/getting hurt of a young boy by the number of young boys they have, it's going to look like a lot.

Seriously? said...

re: Old Testament rules of waiting differing days to resume intimacy after the birth of female vs. male babies:

I am a medical professional (RN) whose specialty is Obstetrics and Neonatal care.

While there is some valid reasons to allow a woman's body to heal after delivery, it is silly to assign any certain number of days to wait based upon the gender of the newly-delivered baby.

JMO, I'd respect the Duggars more if they lived their lives based on currently meaningful and valid rules based upon science and meaningful ethical standards.

When considering these kinds of old time rules, IMO, what may (or may not have even then) have made sense in biblical times is irrelevant for our times. So why waste time and effort adhering to rules that are meaningless?

Of course, as always, JMO.

londonbridges said...

Thanks Seriously?said, I also don't understand the difference in the time frame between the genders, and the waiting period in general. I also think it is a waste of time to try to figure it out. I will wait for the reason for waiting in a future episode. I appreciate your expertise in this matter. It seems to me that there are many more important issues to discuss. JMHO.

Allie said...

I think the Duggars genuinely love God. I also think they love religion, meaning the man-made part of human faith. Some people really love rules because sometimes, they make life simpler. I think the Duggars really love having "absolutes" when it comes to faith, and that's why they flocked to Gothard.

I also think they believe that the more opposite they are from popular culture, the closer they are to God. That movement will have you believing that popular culture is the devils personal army (I have personal experience with this). Therefore, the more you stand out, the harder you are fighting the devil.

hart&sole said...

While I agree that the 6 younger boys have energy to burn, they have not been taught the difference between what is appropriate inside and outside behavior. Even using their 'inside voices' would be an improvement. The noise level and the commotion must be an acquired taste.

Considering the lack of supervision the younger kids receive, it's truly amazing how little they have been injured.

Seriously? said...

"Some people really love rules because sometimes, they make life simpler. I think the Duggars really love having "absolutes" when it comes to faith, and that's why they flocked to Gothard.

I also think they believe that the more opposite they are from popular culture, the closer they are to God. That movement will have you believing that popular culture is the devils personal army (I have personal experience with this). Therefore, the more you stand out, the harder you are fighting the devil."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

IMO this is an excellent take on the Duggars.

I just find it sad that the Duggars consider humans so weak as to be unable to maintain their moral compass without constant surveillance coupled with a FEAR of God and his alleged wrath.

Life itself is not black/white. It is not built on absolutes. Life is complex and requires an ability to recognize and deal rationally and ethically with many, many very grey areas. The Duggars seem unable to comprehend this.

It is fallacy and folly to measure ethics by the depth and breadth of religious and political conservatism.

I have news for the Duggars: liberal minds are no less ethical than the Duggars just because they are liberal in thought and actions.

Don't even get me started on the whole 'devil made me do it' concept. This is the stuff of cartoons and Disney IMO.

The Duggars are a silly caricature of Christianity. JMO.

ennvee said...

Latest Duggar sightings:

At the Country Music Hall of Fame, according to their Twitter:

http://twitter.com/#!/countrymusichof/status/124569877695561729/photo/1

A "Kid's Conference" in Nashville, complete with performance shots (and Kirk Cameron in his role as hip Christian parent) and at the end, a You Tube link with an embarrassing moment for Joy.

Photos:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lifeway_photos/sets/72157627885060274/

Joy's not-so-shining moment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Ggf6-FZsrQA

Looks like she has also taken over as Leader of the pre-teen pack from Jill. No wonder she looks so miserable all the time these days!

Lindy said...

I wonder about Josh, who wants to be a lawyer, according to the College Plus website. Would he be willing to defend someone who may have different religious views? When/if Jill becomes a nurse, would she be willing to assist a doctor with different religious views, or what about a patient? If she were to be a doula, would she be willing to help a woman with different religious views give birth?

Exposure to the "real world" and a real college wouldn't kill the Duggar girls (well, all the adult Duggars). It may make them more secure in their beliefs. Right now, when I watch the show, I get sad when I think of those girls especially are wasting their special God-given talents, being nannies and housekeepers for their parents. Perhaps the Duggar girls are smart enough to be doctors, lawyers, engineers. Right now, they just watch their younger siblings and cook and clean. Very depressing. Jim Bob and Michelle should let them go: leave and cleave.

rcadra2 said...

This was on YouTube. Looks like the Duggars were at the LifeWay Kids Ministry Conference in Nashville this week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMEhzx_eQzU&feature=relmfu

ennvee said...

Forgot to ask in the first post: What justification do the Duggars have for going to the Country Music HOF when they aren't allowed to listen to most country music (because Gothard decrees that the "back beat" of music is essentially Satanic).

The parents may know the older singers, but even Patsy Cline, Loretta Lynn and of course, Dolly, had songs with a lot of giddyup rhythm in them.

betty cherry said...

Jill would make a wonderful pediatrician...from what I've observed from the show...she is compassionate, dedicated, hardworking and a credit to her somewhat clueless parents...either that or an ob/gyn nurse, if seeing an other adult human's "unmentionable" parts wouldn't send this sweet girl to a prayer room like something out of "carrie"....go Jill!!!

Kit said...

Wow, I've Been Redeemed "has a great beat and you can dance to it!" Surprised the Duggars allow that in their repertory...they've already said they don't listen to "bluegrass"-style music, even the gospel songs, but that song is straight out of my summer revivals childhood...

I guess when money's involved, the "standards" change...

Seriously? said...

Two things I will absolutely bet the farm on: Josh Duggar will NEVER become Josh Duggar, Esquire and Jill Duggar will NEVER become Jill Duggar, MD.

Their parents have set their 19 kids up to fail in the real world.

In Duggarville: No drs, no lawyers, not even Indian chiefs. Just pray-ers.

londonbridges said...

I agree with the comments about Josh and Jill never achieving their career dreams. It is a shame that JimBob and Michelle will not understand that their blessings have intelligence and talents. I think there may be the potential for a doctor, OB nurse, lawyer, etc. present in these blessings. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Seriously? said...

Wow, I've Been Redeemed "has a great beat and you can dance to it!" Surprised the Duggars allow that in their repertory...

I guess when money's involved, the "standards" change,"

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The whole concept that the beat of music is an insurmountable occasion of sin is just ignorant.

To THEN do a 180 (Google it, Duggars) and say that the very same beat, so long as it carries a religious message, is acceptable is just plain hypocrisy.

My guess is that Jim Bob Duggar will endorse ANYTHING that promotes the Duggar brand AND puts $ in his pocket. He is the classic used car salesman/politician and, unsurprisingly, he has tried BOTH of these job options.

Any show featuring the Duggars really ought to be renamed "Heaven Hath No Hypocrites".

The Roaming Commoner said...

I wonder if the Duggar girls ever wonder what life would be like outside of their Gothard approved world. Maybe some of them really know no other way and don't desire change. Anna appears to be the model A.T.I. girl as in she is not college educated, is not ambitious, and seems to define success by fertility and marriage.

sarawest said...

I've enjoyed watching the Duggars in the past, but all the trips are getting tiresome. I would rather see them in their home setting managing their day-to-day lives of such a large family.

I agree with others on this forum who thought the family showed poor judgment at taking Josie, McKenzie, and newborn Michael on these latest trips. Josie is still a bit at risk since she had a febrile seizure not long ago, and it looks like she might still be on oxygen at night. The Duggars will downplay her illness in Israel, of course. But I would bet it was a serious scare. Josie should still be handled with care. My daughter had preemies and she was extremely careful about her little ones being around others until about age 3.

I feel sorry for Anna, too. I can't imagine going through natural childbirth and having a film crew in my face every minute for a TV show. Can't the girl say no? I also feel sorry for her being dragged on so many trips with her heavily pregnant and then post-partum. There is no way I would want to deal with children the age of McKenzie and Michael on an overseas trip, in particular. Michael is still so tiny, and I would never do that.

I used to enjoy this family, and I know people who think like them who would say the TV show is their "ministry" or so such term. But I am getting disillusioned and I am increasing questioning their motives. I think they are starting to worship the dollar much more than they would care to admit.

I hope at some point the family will decide to quit doing a weekly show. I would certainly respect them more if they did.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone seen the Couragous movie? I saw it today. I thought it was really good and I was really into it when all of a sudden the Duggars were on the screen.

The Roaming Commoner said...

I wonder about Anna's home births. Did she really choose to do it that way or was she pressured into it? We may never know. I really wish that the Duggars would fade into oblivion as in no "Today Show", no TLC, and stepping completely out of the limelight.

tulip said...

I agree that it really would be more interesting watching the Duggars back in "real life", at home in their daily routines and following each member of the family. I think we're all tired of the trips, once again as with other TLC programming, they wouldn't be doing any of this in "real life" if it wasn't for the show.

The Duggars have said this is like their ministry, but it's gotten so far off base...after 7 seasons it seems to be all about the fame and TLC income (being shown going on more & more extravagant trips, participating in some things they actually don't support but are doing so "for the camera" (Country Music Hall of Fame), and some of the filming has just gotten too personal & exploited (the home birth of Michael was much more so than Mackynzie, and, of course, the recent episode of Jason's injury)

All reality shows should definitely have a cap on the number of seasons or they just get to the point of being over-the-top and annoying, and unfortunately, it looks like 19 Kids & Counting has arrived.
(Stop Counting.)

Stephanie said...

I just watched the Atlanta episode tonight. Jessa dressing the boys because she is their mother. Unless you are Prince William and Harry circa 1989, little boys look silly and cheap in suitcoats and ties, just a nice shirt slacks and ties are proper. Then Michelle and the girls are wearing RAGS. I have never in my life worn flip flops to church and if I were performing I would try harder. And they really are terrible musicians.

Not suprised by Jasons accidents, those kids are unsupervised and run wild. I think they behaved disrespectfully at that church. Moms shouldn't panic in front of kids, but she was NEVER concerned like she was for Josie.MICHELLE DUGGAR PLEASE TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHILDREN. I have had it.

Why are these dads total horndogs w/their wives but expect they sons to not even hold a girls hand? And that man saying he prayed when he had his daughter that she would keep herself pure for her future husband? Sickening

When my daughter was born 12 yrs ago I held her in my arms and we watched VA TECH football and Miss America and I dreamed my daughter could maybe go to Tech or be Miss America.

Did I just hear JimBob tell Gill htat he and michelle were rying to have another baby?

mom in texas said...

Stephanie said:
Did I just hear JimBob tell Gill htat he and michelle were rying to have another baby?
___________________________________

Jim Bob commented a few times during this episode on how both he and Gil had "so many children" and that Gil has almost caught up with him. Gil also said that he was "rich" because he's been blessed with so many offspring. The comment Jim Bob made at the end was something to the effect that he and Michelle are almost in about out of their child bearing years but they are still trying. Meaning they are still "trusting God" to make the decision for them. IMO I feel like they know that Josie is they're last which is almost rightfully so since they now have two grandchildren. Enough is enough.

Seriously? said...

"...saying he prayed when he had his daughter that she would keep herself pure for her future husband? Sickening"

*******************************

OMG, that IS sickening. You mean in Duggar World even a woman's own chastity isn't for HERSELF, but, rather, so her husband-to-be can feel all special about deflowering her???

What a twisted way to raise daughters - their entire existence seems intended only to serve and please men.

Seems less than godly to me. Seems absolutely demeaning to an entire gender.

londonbridges said...

No matter what a parent hopes and prays for his children and their future, at some point it is imperative to let them fly on their own. If they have done their best to guide them in the way they 'hope' the blessings will go, then that is all they can do.

It greatly disturbs me that Zach and Sarah, for instance, have decided there will be no physical touching, even hand holding prior to their marriage. If that is what they truly want, then so be it. I'm just not convinced that the young couple wants this. There is great pressure by both sets of parents to keep their purity intact. My understanding is that communication between them is monitored, and there is always a chaperone or two with them. This appears to me to be a lack of trust in that the couple won't "behave" unless monitored. I just really don't understand it.

I am curious as to whether both sets of parents underwent the same type of scrutiny and monitoring while they were courting. JMHO about these issues.

Stephanie said...

What ever happened to Michelle's Dr. Sarver? Remember they had just switched to her because she agreed to do the V-back? (Vaginal birth after c-section). That told me that another dr. Advised no more children due to danger of uterus strecthing/cutting or whatever they say.

Dr. Sarver is never mentioned or shown, did she get critics in her profession for not advising them to stop? Do Josh and Anna still go to her?

tashapork said...

The last time Michelle was shown going to Dr Sarver was in the begining of the pregnancy with Josie, once Michelle was transferred to Little Rock, she was cared for by their doctors. She hasn't been pregnant since so we don't know who she'll go to when she gets pregnant. I get the impression that Ana went to Dr Sarver originally intending for her to deliver Mackenzie in the hospital and changed to home delivery after finding she was on vacation during her labor. They seemed to always intend the second delivery to take place at home, so I don't know who gave the prenatal care. Maybe a midwife, maybe Dr Sarver, they wanted a lot of theatricals for the ultrasounds and the private ultrasound place needed a plug in so thats why the footage came from there at least as far as what I see.

Seriously? said...

It greatly disturbs me that Zach and Sarah, for instance, have decided there will be no physical touching, even hand holding prior to their marriage. There is great pressure by both sets of parents to keep their purity intact. My understanding is that communication between them is monitored, and there is always a chaperone or two with them. This appears to me to be a lack of trust in that the couple won't "behave" unless monitored. I just really don't understand it.

*********************************

What IS the point of all this? How will refraining from even the most platonic touch POSSIBLY make the world a better place? What does a silly thing like this have to do with ethics?

Using this kind of Duggar/Bates logic, I guess if I decide I'm only going to wear red shirts every day for the rest of my life to supposedly 'honor god' - does that make me holier than you? Yeah, well, neither does abstinence from even a premarital kiss - it is meaningless, absolutely meaningless.

And chaperoning adults is nonsensical. Religions that give human beings so little credit for being able to remain ethical/ rise above temptation are anything BUT 'encouraging'.

londonbridges said...

Agree totally, Seriously?said. Of what value comes from all platonic affection during the courting phase of the Duggar/Bates mindset? The total lack of trust is beyond comprehension to me, and I am not encouraged by this either.

I am very happy I didn't grow up in these families, and feel sorry for the blessings and future blessings involved there. JMHO.

Jenny O said...

Yeah, well, neither does abstinence from even a premarital kiss - it is meaningless, absolutely meaningless.

=====================

the only meaning many of these ridiculous "rules" the Duggars, Bates and others like them follow, is that this is how Gothard exerts his control over his followers' lives.

It has little to do with true spirituality, even less to do with common sense.

Whitney said...

I found Zach's statement about "no intimacy before marriage..." really sad because the Duggars and Bates only seem concerned with physical intimacy while completely ignoring the emotional intimacy that couples need to know, trust and love one another.

A shared joke, a special smile, etc., should be part of the getting to know one another in order to create and maintain the emotional intimacy a couple needs to build upon as a lasting part of their relationship.

No $ex, fine, but why ignore the most important part of an emotional relationship and focus only on the physical? After all, children raised with such good character or emphasis upon character should be capable of reasonable self-control...

Seriously? said...

We know Jim Bob (the strutting patriarchal rooster) loves him some hairspray....

Raise your hand if you believe Jim Bob and his obedient and ever-cheerful wife are BFF's with cover-the-grey hair dye.....

londonbridges said...

I have both hands raised. Agreed.

The absence of any show of affection prior to marriage is indeed Gothard's way of controlling the 'believers' who follow his doctrine. It seems to me to have nothing to do with spirituality, nor common sense. As long as Gothard's followers follow the leader, all is well. I am feeling sick just thinking about how brain-washed these followers appear to be. Zach and Sarah are missing out on getting to know each other in a deeper way, because all intimacy is forbidden. JMO.

ncgirl said...

There was an online editor from TLC who got arrested for child porn. He worked on the Duggar show, the Gosselins' show, Table for 12, etc shows which involve small children. I wonder if this makes the Duggars worry about filming their children.

mishmash said...

I am concerned about Joy Anna. Everytime she is shown on film, she looks absolutely miserable! Clearly, she is going through puberty and no one around her seems to care. As the only girl in the middle, she is getting lost in the shuffle. She used to have such a spunky personality and now she seems like a drone...so sad.

londonbridges said...

I am not sure if the Duggars are worried about filming their children, but my opinion is that they should be concerned. The whole family including Josh and Anna (and their babies) have had their pics shown on T.V. and every other type of media. They have travelled extensively, held book-signing gigs, etc. Sickos have had no difficulty gaining access to their schedules, home lay-out and more.

I wouldn't want my family exposed like JimBob, Michelle, Josh and Anna have chosen to do. JMHO.

Lindy said...

They have travelled extensively, held book-signing gigs, etc. Sickos have had no difficulty gaining access to their schedules, home lay-out and more.
******************

I agree with londdonbridges 100%, but I'm sure the Duggars believe that they are protected by God and have nothing to worry about. I shudder to think that something may happen to any of those children when they are playing unsupervised outside or to the one of the older girls when they are permitted to go shopping or have something happen to Josh, Anna, and their babies.

I'm quietly hoping the show will end soon so those Duggars who may have privately desired to leave the family compound may do so. JoyAnna looks miserable (I think she may be the one to leave when she comes of age, if they haven't zapped her spirit by then), and I wonder if the older girls have actually gone on their smartphones and looked up blogs like this.

I also hope that if one of the older girls does end up getting married, (I wrote IF, given Michelle's dependence on her older girls and Jim Bob's arrogance), her husband secretly fosters more liberal views and gives the girl/woman an opportunity to develop her own ideas and possibly go to college.

On a different note, does anyone know if they celebrate Halloween?

londonbridges said...

I too am sure that the Duggars believe God will protect them from all danger and harm, and they continue to 'encourage' the rest of us. While I believe God can and does protect me, He expects me to use common sense in my decisions.

I also hope this family walks away from TLC and resumes the life-style (home-schooling, discipline etc) that we first viewed. Do I think it will happen any time soon? Probably not. $$$ beckons and seems to call the shots now with the Duggars.

tlb said...

I thought I would pass this along.
Note it says he did work on 17 Kids and Chttp://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2011/10/jon-and-kate-plus-8-editor-arrested-on-child-porn-charges/ounting.

Jenny O said...

I am hoping that there is at most only one more season left for the Duggars on television.

I worry that the older girls will be stuck at home into their late 20's and early 30's, as unpaid servants.

I also think that none of the children will see any of the money earned during the TLC years, and that JimBob and Michelle will keep it all for themselves.

I also believe that some of the children will never leave home, and have to take care of their parents in their old age.

londonbridges said...

I also think that some of the blessings may never leave home. They will be taking care of their parents. And, should there be any future blessings, they may have special needs due to advanced maternal age, etc. I wonder if it has ever crossed JimBob's and Michelle's minds that this could indeed happen. JMHO.

Hannah Leah said...

Anonymous Lindy said...

On a different note, does anyone know if they celebrate Halloween?



Nope!! He talks about in "I left my Duggar in San Fransisco(sp)".

Stephanie said...

Regarding Michelle

In my world of Special needs kids and parents, there are some moms who totally love the attention they get from having handicapped children. They seem to thrive on people telling them how wonderful they are. I think Michelle loves the attention she gets for having 19 kids AND she is getting alot of publicity for Josie and her health. If, God forbide, Josie has long term delays Michelle will eat that attention up. She seems to thrive on discussions of Josies health. I bore my friends to death about my daughter cheerleading or dancing and my son playing sports. Michelle really doesn't have that. She used to brag on their "music" but she doesn't even do that anymore. She likes the fame and JimBob likes the fortune.

londonbridges said...

Totally agree with you, Stephanie. What a drastic change in this family since the beginning of the show. Not at all encouraging for me. JMO.