Free Discussion January 2010 Part Two

Please use this for Duggar sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, or personal stories. If you wish to discuss other TLC shows, please visit TLCwithoutpity.blogspot.com. Thank you!

I closed the other thread both because of it's size and how things were getting overly contentious again. We understand religion is part of the Duggar's life, but we need to keep the discussion there on what is part of the show and not venture into each other's religions, please. The problem usually arises when there are no new episodes and people start speculating about the Duggars.

258 comments:

1 – 200 of 258   Newer›   Newest»
Ohio Buckeye said...

What's everyone's guess about whether or not the Duggars will continue on tv after things with Josie calm down?

Do you think Josh/Anna will be offered a TLC gig?

How long do you guess the shelf life to be for the Duggars on tv?

Just curious about your thoughts...

Amanda said...

re where the Duggars are staying while in Little Rock:

A regular blog reader sends along a tidbit on the Duggar clan. Because the premature birth of their 19th child in an emergency C-section requires extended hospitalization, the family has leased a home in Little Rock so they can stay close.

The house? The historic Cornish House on Arch Street in the Quapaw Quarter.

The paradox -- Hilda Cornish was an early Little Rock advocate of family planning. From the Encyclopedia of Arkansas:

Cornish’s husband committed suicide in 1928. After his death, she devoted much of her time to reform and social work. In the summer of 1930, she met Margaret Sanger, the founder and leader of the American birth control movement. The two developed a friendship maintained by correspondence and occasional meetings. During that summer, Cornish visited Sanger’s Clinical Research Bureau in New York, and she launched the Arkansas birth control movement later that same year.

At Cornish’s initiative, a group of physicians, business and religious leaders, and women active in civic work formed the Arkansas Eugenics Association (AEA). Rabbi Ira Eugene Sanders said, “It was suggested that because the movement might evoke criticism on the part of the rather orthodox and staid community, that we call it the Arkansas Eugenics Association on the grounds that nobody would object to being well born.” In early 1931, the association opened the Little Rock Birth Control Clinic in the basement of Baptist Hospital. There, poor white women could get contraceptives at a time when men and women urgently sought to limit the size of their families.

This was on a Little Rock television web-site

Deanna said...

I think that there is still quite a lot of interest in the Duggars. However, I think for the good of their family, they really ought to return to their original ideals and get out of the public eye. The whole venture into reality TV hasn't been good for them at all (it hasn't been good for any of the TLC families, really, even if initially it seems to offer financial security and other perks).

Since I have become rather fascinated by the Duggars' lifestyle, I have been reading other blogs by people with very large families, who are also conservative fundamentalist Christians. Some of these families seem to adhere to a much more solid set of beliefs, and they are truer to their real purpose (less hypocrisy). Also, many of these families have gardens, goats, chickens, don't use disposable diapers or paper plates, cook from scratch, etc. Other families are not shouting about modesty and filming their births for national TV, etc.

For these reasons, I think the Duggars' TV show really has run its course, and I hope this is the last season. I still like to read blogs, and would read theirs, as I am still curious about them, but when they have to start hiding from the papparazzi, it is high time to get their conservative family out of the public eye.

Just my opinion, of course!

Enough with the Multiples said...

I was actually kinda surprised that Josh and Anna haven't gotten their own gig already...I kinda saw it coming when they got married and a lot of the episodes that season focused on them. I'm kinda wondering if maybe "viewers" didn't take to them as well as TLC hoped. I know I, for one, found Josh really annoying in the many of the episodes. I'm also kinda surprised that TLC hasn't done some episodes on Josh and Anna and their little one while J/M are dealing with Josie. Would be one way to keep the show going while giving J/M their privacy.

I really hope that the Duggars aren't keeping things quiet because things aren't well and so uncertain with Josie and then when things turn around they come off sounding all holier than though implying that their extreme lifestyle is why God pulled her through. I really hope they truely document the struggle that having a micro premie entails in fairness to others who have endured similar circumstances.
I've heard it reported a few places that Kelly Bates had some serious health problems following the birth of their last child, yet it wasn't mentioned at all in the episode with them. While I hope Josie pulls through and is healthy, the Duggars and TLC better not make it look all rosey.

Ohio Buckeye said...

@ Amanda: Oh, the irony! This ought to get the blogs buzzing!

Ohio Buckeye said...

Thanks for the info, Deanna.

I'm not a big fan of the 'reality' genre, so it won't bother me at all to see it go away.

Also JMO.

Anonymous said...

I also think the show has run its course. Being on TV seems to have too many risks. Sure, there are benefits, but at what expense? I am glad the family has more financial stability and that the kids seem to get out more. I just wonder how things will change now with a potentially chronically ill child.

On the other hand, it could be quite an inspiration to see how Josie is doing and may offer a lot of reassurance to families in similar circumstances. I would be curious to see how Michelle handles a baby with special needs. I am not sure that one of the older girls should have to deal with the baby as her first responsibility. They should be launching and Michelle should be the primary caretaker.

I really hope J&A don't get a show. "Reality" TV hasn't been kind to young newlyweds. Not to mention that Josh seems a bit smug for a kid his age. I don't think it would have the success that his parents show did. He's just too much to take IMO.

Ohio Buckeye said...

I sure hope little Josie makes it.

I hope the show abstains from coming on too strong about how god saved the Duggar's baby due to their faith.

We'd sometimes hear this in the NICU, and it always made me feel so bad for the parents whose babies weren't going to make it, as if they, or, worse yet, their baby, was somehow less loved, less worthy, and, so, was not 'saved' from death.

I wish well on all involved, especially little bitty Josie. May she breathe peacefully and recover fully.

Ollie said...

We'd sometimes hear this in the NICU, and it always made me feel so bad for the parents whose babies weren't going to make it, as if they, or, worse yet, their baby, was somehow less loved, less worthy, and, so, was not 'saved' from death.
****************************************************
Well said Ohio Buckeye. I think what would be worse though would be if Josie doesn't pull through or is severely disabled the rest of her life and the Duggars blame themselves. It seems like they are prone to this, based on their reaction to Michelle's miscarriage. And I don't mean blaming themselves as in "it was a bad idea to try to get pregnant so late in life after so many pregnancies due to the high medical risks." That would in some ways be understandable, I mean more along the lines of "If only we had followed Mr. Gothard's teachings more strictly little Josie wouldn't have to suffer."
To be fair to the fundamentalist Christians I know personally, and to how the Duggars seem to be, they tend to attribute both the good and the bad in their lives to their faith or lack thereof. I've been wondering, if Josie doesn't recover, will they see opening their home to TLC as the grave sin for which they are being punished?
I truly hope this time Michelle and Jim Bob can get advice from a truly competent counselor about how to deal with their grief. It seems like following their miscarriage they just took whatever their Christian doctor told them as gospel and didn't bother looking into it for themselves, which can be dangerous depending on the doctors agenda. (And by that I don't mean all Christian doctors are always good or bad. I think its wrong for anyone to use their professional capacity to push people towards their belief system, whatever it is, unless that is their stated job.)
I wouldn't be surprised if some of their fellow Gothards (I refer to purely hypothetical people here, not anyone we've seen on the show since I don't know them enough to say what they may or may not do) were to use this tragedy to try and push them towards a more fundamentalist lifestyle.

SteelMagnolia said...

Is it only me who is offended by the fact that no information is being released about little Josie's condition?

All of us, obviously, care about this family - as we are here writing about them, but even given the circumstances, you would think that they would give out some periodic updates.

The only reason I can think of that they would not would be for a ratings boost, and that makes me sad.

I sure hope little Josie is OK.

Hannah W, said...

Blogger SteelMagnolia said...

Is it only me who is offended by the fact that no information is being released about little Josie's condition?

All of us, obviously, care about this family - as we are here writing about them, but even given the circumstances, you would think that they would give out some periodic updates.

The only reason I can think of that they would not would be for a ratings boost, and that makes me sad.

I sure hope little Josie is OK.


---------------------------------

I for one am not offended. We're not family or close friends, we're only people that watch the show. While I hope Josie grows to be strong and healthy, I think their lives, especially, right now, need to all remain private.

Amanda said...

SteelMagnolia

I'm not offended but it makes me wonder. I wonder if this is the first time that their faith has really been tested. It seems as though their life has been all sunshine and rainbows. Something like this tests your faith in God, not only how much you trust Him but what you trust Him with. Is your faith wide or deep?

It's easy to say that you have faith in God when your life is good. (I want a child, you get pregnant, have a healthy child. Thank God for that child) But the test comes when your life is not going so well (I want a child and I have waited 15 years for a child) That is where your faith is tested and grows.

This is a time when they can be an encouragement to others. How are they handling this? The day to day issues but the emotional, physical, mental and spiritual ones too. Are they crying? Are they going in a closet and screaming? Are they praying? Are they questioning god about why this happened?

BTW I appreciate this blog so much and the different opinion and views and the respectful way that disagreements are handled.

Anonymous said...

I have personally had enough of tlc,big family shows in general,and the hypocrisy of it all.No one is even allowed to request prayers for baby Josie,or release any info about her.It's all about $.I am not blaming the Duggers,as I think they are bound to the contract they signed.IF not then they are following advice in order to up the ratings.Either way it's exploitation of Josie and the family.
I will not be watching the show anymore.Personal boycott by me.If I want to know how Josie,(if and when any info is ever released), then I'll read about her online.Enough is enough.JMO.

CappuccinoLife said...

Why shouldn't they keep Josie's condition close? I would love to hear how she's doing but if her life is in a tenuous position, they may be very wise to avoid public announcements that may change from moment to moment.

If you want to pray for her, pray. You don't need a specific announcement to do that. We know she's got a battle ahead of her just to survive. That should be enough to construct a good prayer about. ;)

But we are not owed any information at all. The Duggar's chose to make their life public, and they can choose when and whether to keep things from the public eye as well.

Somebody's Nana said...

SteelMagnolia said

I wonder if this is the first time that their faith has really been tested.

It may well be, but I doubt it. How many times have you met people with a totally wonderful life for 20+ years? Testing comes in all forms, not just with these issues.

This is a time when they can be an encouragement to others. How are they handling this? The day to day issues but the emotional, physical, mental and spiritual ones too. Are they crying? Are they going in a closet and screaming? Are they praying? Are they questioning god about why this happened?

I disagree. This is a time for them to turn to God and rely on their family and close friends for encouragement. Later, when they have healed emotionally, they can use their experience to help others. A false belief exists in the mind of many (including some believers!) that says that if you are "faithful" you will not struggle with normal human emotions. The Bible does not say this: what it does say is that with God, you can get through it. Right now, their thoughts should be on their family, not on how others are reacting. I am SO glad that we are NOT getting regular updates, because to me it says that they are NOT thinking about the show.

Anonymous said...

No one is even allowed to request prayers for baby Josie,or release any info about her.

I think these are two different things entirely. Anyone can ask for and/or pray for Josie. Permission is not needed.

As for not releasing information, absolutely! NO ONE should be releasing information except her parents. You or I would want the same control over information about our own respective families, and the Duggars deserve the same courtesy.

I don't think they're doing it for ratings. While you could argue that it does increase the interest in the show, and thereby the ratings, that does not prove motive. It only shows possible outcome. And motive is important, IMO. Now, TLC - their motive might be different, but I don't think they have the control right now.

Somebody's Nana said...

Deanna said Since I have become rather fascinated by the Duggars' lifestyle, I have been reading other blogs by people with very large families, who are also conservative fundamentalist Christians. Some of these families seem to adhere to a much more solid set of beliefs, and they are truer to their real purpose (less hypocrisy). Also, many of these families have gardens, goats, chickens, don't use disposable diapers or paper plates, cook from scratch, etc. Other families are not shouting about modesty and filming their births for national TV, etc.

Are you saying that being organic makes them more "true" to their beliefs, or is that a separate point?

The Duggars' stated purpose is to have a platform to spread the gospel, which they do openly on their website. Thousands of people read their website who wouldn't otherwise even think of reading this information. To me, their stated purpose is accomplished. No hypocrisy there.

barb said...

IMO, I think the Duggars may see Josie's premaature birth as a sign from God that they may be going int he wrong direction putting themselves all out t here on tv. Just a thought. Re: Josh and Anna show. I think they are too boring to carry their own show. What would we see? The two of them sitting in the empty car dealership all day? Anna might have another baby soon, but still not enough "drama." I truly do like the show but I have to be honest I do think it is getting kind of boring. It's not like it used to be. Also, I too am a little offended that they have chosen not to not release any info on Josie. It's like dangling a carrot in front of us: "Well, we had Josie but we can't let you know anything until the new season." I think that's terrible if that is the case.

Anonymous said...

I too am a little put off about no updates. This is a family who is on the Today show the minute Michelle is pregnant. She even announces on television the conception date of little Josie and how she knew she was pregnant with her by her milk tasting funny to Jordan. I, for one, feel this family pulled me to be vested in them, and the minute I'm in and care, they're silent. If it was my neighbor down the street, I'd want to have an update on the baby. It's not being nosy, it's caring. An update would be the nice, caring and Chritian, thing to do. If it is for ratings, shame on TLC and mostly shame on the Duggars.

Judy said...

re: Why haven't we heard anything -- call me a cynic, but my guess is that TLC is keeping the lid on things very, very tightly, so that they can do a huge special later on Josie's birth and subsequent fight for her life.

Ollie said...

No one is even allowed to request prayers for baby Josie,or release any info about her.It's all about $.I am not blaming the Duggers,as I think they are bound to the contract they signed.
***************************************************
I, for one, do blame the Duggars for agreeing to exploit their children for money in the first place. I have always been more or less wary of their claim that the main motivation to do this show was to be an encouragement to other families. There recent actions, however, seem to confirm my darker suspicions. If they truly just wanted to serve as an example of Christian faith and family, than wouldn't they want to show the world how their faith helps them all through this difficult time? I realize that even they still have certain rights to privacy, but someone should tell them that when you don't even update your public website to acknowledge the birth of your new child when you usually go on the Today Show it just looks bad. I realize Jim Bob and MIchelle might be very busy right now (although I kind of doubt that since Michelle has the time to protest liquor store permits) but they certainly have enough grown or nearly grown children that one of them could have updated the site or appeared on TV to thank the public for their concern.
Someday, after she grows up, Josie might come to see this as her parents way of protecting her when she was most fragile. Knowing children as I do, however, I bet that when she's elementary school age or so and she learns how her birth was handled by the family as opposed to how her near-aged siblings' births were handled she is going to be hurt. Especially if she has any lingering disabilities, she might feel that she wasn't as wanted or loved as the healthy babies.
When I taught public school we used to mainstream the special needs kids for at least a few hours a day. One year I had a first grader who had been born with a muscle control disease (I no longer remember what it was called) that effected his ability to move and to talk. His parents had just had another child and when he saw the birth announcements being sent out about her birth he asked to see the ones they had sent out when he was born. They hadn't sent any. The poor little boy was absolutely distraught in school the next day because he thought, rightly or wrongly, that his parents hadn't and didn't want or love him the way they did his new healthy sister. After a few days he no longer cried about it, but you could see how this knowledge changed his perception of himself for the worse.
Based on that experience, I believe all parents should celebrate the live birth of any child as the happy event that it is. Even if the parents are deeply disappointed at the time of birth, they don't want to be put in a position of trying to explain that to the elementary school child they now love and adore. I fear that the Duggars may be setting themselves up for just such a situation.

Anonymous said...

Personal boycott by me also. As some other posters have said, there are many families who have endured loss and tragedy with little ones. With all due respect to the Duggar's faith, I think some of the beliefs they have may be very painful to hear for those in spiritual crisis. I find them to be overly idealistic and some of their statements of faith don't seem to be scriptural, so much as thought of by man (JB, M and Gothard).

I still can't reconcile some of their questionable info. regarding science, yet their use of technology when the pregnancy went bad (though I believe they made the right choice!) I can't condone watching a show that exploits children, puts unrealistic pressure of child rearing on young girls and comes off as sanctimonious for those who don't share their faith or belief. Although, I do believe they have every right to express themselves as they see fit. It is my choice to watch, and I have out of fascination, but I have seen enough. So, no more for me, thank you very much.

I hope Josie is doing well and that ALL of the children are getting their individual needs met as much as realistically possible during this challenging time.

Jane in California said...

One thing that I have learned from these TLC shows like The Duggars and J&K plus 8, is that it's really not worth it, to put your life and the lives of your family out for public consumption. At most, families considering going this route should limit it to an hour-long special. The intrusion into your personal life would be kept to a minimum, you would earn a little bonus money to put in the bank or use to pay off debt, and then the cameras are gone, the bright lights, and you can resume your private life again.

It seems that no matter how strong you think you are, networks like TLC will have you sign your life away before you know it. Then when you object to something phony, like promoting a product for them, or having a product installed in your home (for example, the Duggars were "given" blinds in their home because the natural light filtering in caused filming problems. I wonder if the really wanted those cheap white blinds on their windows? Either way, TLC deemed them necessary and thus they were installed.), they can merely point to the contract you signed and basically tell you "tough luck."

There is just too great a chance for a negative impact to consider the risk, if you ask me.

Anon 3:14 said...

@Somebody's Nana: "The Duggars' stated purpose is to have a platform to spread the gospel, which they do openly on their website. Thousands of people read their website who wouldn't otherwise even think of reading this information. To me, their stated purpose is accomplished. "

--------

And not everyone who reads the Duggars website is "encouraged" by their version of Christianity or religion in general.

I wonder if the Duggars truly realize the number of people who are put-off by the Duggars' holier-than-thou we're-too-good-for-you attitude?

They alienate just as many people as they "encourage".

Red Line said...

"I too am a little put off about no updates. This is a family who is on the Today show the minute Michelle is pregnant. She even announces on television the conception date of little Josie and how she knew she was pregnant with her by her milk tasting funny to Jordan. I, for one, feel this family pulled me to be vested in them, and the minute I'm in and care, they're silent. If it was my neighbor down the street, I'd want to have an update on the baby. It's not being nosy, it's caring."

That is exactly what I was thinking. When things are going good for the Duggars, we hear all about it. As you said, we get conception, gender, and name announcements. Now they are upon trying times, and we hear absolutely nothing. Suddenly they are claiming they need privacy. Believe me, I'm all for that family's privacy, but I think it is wrong to want all sorts of attention when things are good, but then want privacy when things are bad. Jim Bob, you can't have it all.

Anonymous said...

TLC frightens me. They should have no right to tell the Duggars what they can or cannot say about Josie, or anything else. Those who say "maybe TLC won't let them due to their contract, etc. are only confirming that they have in some way sold out. Is this a family who only answers and serves God? or TLC. I don't like to hear about these TLC contracts, ie, Jon Gosselin not allowed to do interviews or have other ways to make money in the media. TLC OWNS these people if you ask me. Not God. There are better ways to spread the gospel.

ellie said...

This is just my personal experience, but:
I am the second out of ten children, seven of them adopted, and three with special needs. When one of my little brothers suffered a severe and life threatening bout of pneumonia, we all "circled the wagons" for a couple of months while we dealt with him. A few close family and friends were given updates on his condition, but we weren't thinking of blogs or announcements or anything else. (People at my mother's work, my father's work, my job, my fiance's family, etc. were left out of a the loophole, although they expressed concern and offered condolences at the time.) It was bad form to do that to people who were worried about Nicholas, but we weren't even thinking about that at the time. I know that it's different with the Duggars, since it does seem like a ploy for ratings. But considering that they have a micro-preemie in the hospital who might not even survive, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for this one.

SteelMagnolia said...

Somebody's Nana:

The quotes that you attribute to me in your post of 1/12 at 6:46 a.m. are not mine, but a response to an earlier post of mine on this thread.

Anonymous said...

I don't think we are owed an explanation about how Josie is doing, or updates, or anything of the sort. But I agree with the notion that not acknowledging her birth on the website seems cruel, and as if she does not even exist.

The Duggars need to acknowledge this child every bit as much as the other 18 kids. In not doing so, they are showing yet another hypocritical side of themselves. While they claim to love "all gifts from God", they clearly love the healthy children more than the unhealthy.

Poor Josie. We're all rooting for you, girl!

Anonymous said...

Does Jimbob Duggar do anything around the house? Everytime I seee him on TV he is eating.

Anonymous said...

Somebody's Nana said...
SteelMagnolia said

I wonder if this is the first time that their faith has really been tested.

It may well be, but I doubt it. How many times have you met people with a totally wonderful life for 20+ years? Testing comes in all forms, not just with these issues.

I've met quite a few people that have a relatively easy life the last twenty years. They have not suffered the horrific tragedy of a close loved one. I and my family have suffered three seperate such tragedies in the last fifteen years. On two of those the news crews came to my house for a story, I told them I would not be interviewed, but gave a statement and my family gave periodic updates because we knew people cared. Unless you've suffered the horror of a senseless, unseen, gruesome death in a horrible way, you've got no idea the hell it causes. I admire S.C. Chapman. When their daughter was killed, he kept his fans updated because he knew they cared. That was tragic.

Somebody's Nana said...

Ollie said If they truly just wanted to serve as an example of Christian faith and family, than wouldn't they want to show the world how their faith helps them all through this difficult time? I realize that even they still have certain rights to privacy, but someone should tell them that when you don't even update your public website to acknowledge the birth of your new child when you usually go on the Today Show it just looks bad

Does it really matter how it "looks" if they are doing the right thing? Haven't the majority of us agreed that the privacy of the children is more important than anything? Doesn't it matter that, however delayed, they have finally done something that is right?

To another poster who commented on the little boy who felt unwanted:


That is so sad! I can see where he would feel left out, and I'm sure your heart broke to see his pain. Fortunately, at least, the Duggars have other children whose birth was not such a big deal (before the show) to point to so that Josie doesn't feel left out. I still maintain that their privacy right now is the best thing.

Beedageeda said...

I mentioned it in the other new thread, but I guess it fits here considering the going topic. There was a red box on the bottom right hand corner during the season finale saying that the Duggars would be back in February with new episodes. I wonder if that's still the plan? If so, I imagine that would explain the silence...
OMG - a Josh and Anna show??! I hope not! I almost fell asleep merely typing their names!

Bubbles said...

What is it about Josh that makes him seem smug to some of the previous posters? I have not felt that way. To me he seems insecure and a little nervous, but friendly and almost overly eager to be helpful and come across as more self assured than he feels inside (hence some of his joking around). I have not seen many of the episodes, though, mostly just some from this most recent "season" so maybe I'm missing something in the bigger picture.

Bubbles said...

To Anon at 12:10 who stated that the Duggars obviously do not love their sick child as much as their well children: that is utterly ridiculous.

They DID announce her birth, via the news media. If their website was updated there would be people criticizing them for taking time away from little Josie to be online. Look how much criticism there has been over Michelle attending the liquor license hearing!

I've seen several comments saying the Duggars are hypocritical but no evidence to back this up. Anyone?

Ohio Buckeye said...

Anonymous 3:14 said, "@Somebody's Nana: "The Duggars' stated purpose is to have a platform to spread the gospel, which they do openly on their website. Thousands of people read their website who wouldn't otherwise even think of reading this information. To me, their stated purpose is accomplished. "

--------

And not everyone who reads the Duggars website is "encouraged" by their version of Christianity or religion in general.

I wonder if the Duggars truly realize the number of people who are put-off by the Duggars' holier-than-thou we're-too-good-for-you attitude?

They alienate just as many people as they "encourage".

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

I wouldn't want to guess what the percentage is for Duggars inspiring vs. Duggars polarizing, but will speak for myself by saying I find their use of TV to 'spread the good news' falling short of their stated goal.

I find their world and life view anything BUT 'the GOOD news'; I find their message stifling and depressing.

So, if anyone is tallying, you can put my vote in the 'polarizing' column. JMO.

To those who are inspired: keep watching and enjoy the inspiration. More power to you.

Anonymous said...

I've seen several comments saying the Duggars are hypocritical but no evidence to back this up. Anyone?

I know people who don't even watch the show say things like, "are they the family that doesn't watch tv, but have a tv show?
How about exposing your entire family to the world, advertising for people to watch and then asking for privacy?
Talking about purity, chastity, and modesty and showing your sonograms and births on tv?
My mom would never in a million years ever let any of us, her other kids, in the room when she had a baby. I never saw that woman, ever, even in her underwear. Heaven forbid. Now, she was modest, but never preached it to others.
Talking about the day the baby was conceived? My mom would have died if she heard another woman say that. So many things...
I could go on and on... If you want more let me know.

Anonymous said...

Plus, I don't know about anyone else, but when Anna was giving birth at home and her legs were spread out wide and Josh had his face in there watching, I was repulsed. This from a family that wears bathing suits from the 1800's
Sorry, not buying it. I have an aunt who has never worn pants, only skirts. My grandma never did either. If we had a boyfriend over and sat on his lap, my mom called us quietly in the kitchen and told us to get off. These women never used birth control and had huge families. Why do the Duggars act like this is all so new or abnormal? Just because people don't have a tv show announcing things, or telling other people, doesn't mean America isn't full of people that follow God in their own way. We're Catholic and believe me, they are espousing everything I grew up with. It's nothing they've discovered. So please, from the daughter of a very modest women, no more spread eagle shots.

SteelMagnolia said...

Anonymous said...
Does Jimbob Duggar do anything around the house? Everytime I seee him on TV he is eating.

1/12/2010 12:31 PM
__________________

Yes! He kisses Michelle constantly and he keeps her "barefoot and pregnant"!

Ollie said...

Does it really matter how it "looks" if they are doing the right thing? Haven't the majority of us agreed that the privacy of the children is more important than anything? Doesn't it matter that, however delayed, they have finally done something that is right?
****************************************************
You're right, the privacy of their children is the most important thing. I should have clarified in my previous post that it is important how a situation looks to the public only if you plan to continue selling your family's privacy for public consumption. As long as the Duggars want to continue doing a show they have to understand that their children are a product (for lack of a better term) and they have to take steps to keep the image of that product positive in the public's mind. It's the same for any product, that's why people have entire careers in marketing and public relations. Now, of course, if the Duggars want to stop doing the show public opinion will cease to matter to them anymore than it does to any other private family, but then they'd have to give up all the nice TLC perks. You can't have it both ways and I think they might now just be realizing how true that is.

Anonymous said...

Anna was giving birth at home and her legs were spread out wide and Josh had his face in there watching, I was repulsed.
______________________

Why were you so repulsed? It is his wife after all... I was actually happy to see him involved and coaching her since she didn't have her mother there for support, and he was there to catch the baby I believe. I agree it shouldn't have been televised, but he had every right to help her deliver the baby I think.

Anonymous said...

I don't care if Josh helps deliver every baby he and Anna have. What I don't need to see nor does anyone outside the two of them is the video of it. Birthing, to me, is not a public spectacle or a participation sport. I don't watch the birthing shows, don't think any birth needs to be video taped, and had all the extra people evicted when I was delivering. That's me. It bothers me that Michelle preaches modesty but then allows filming of births whether we see anything or not. No one IMO who is truly modest would allow all the extra people to be in the room.

Anonymous said...

Re: No one is even allowed to request prayers for baby Josie,or release any info about her.

=====================================

I was talking about the poster who said she was a fan of Amy's on facebook,and apparently Amy is not allowed to even mention Josie nor request prayers for her anymore.(and she was the only one doing so anyway).

AS a Christian,I would at least expect (seeing as the Duggars can find time to protest a liqueur license) an acknowledgment of Josie's birth on their website,as well as a request for prayers for her.It would be the Christian thing to do. (Unless they don't really believe prayer works..).
I would also expect an acknowledgement/request for prayers from Josh as well,on his and Anna's site.Does no one really care about this baby?? That is the impression I am getting,plain and simple.You can try to wrap it any other way,but it just doesn't add up.A fish smells like a fish.JMO.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

I do not smell a fish just because they are not updating the baby's progress for the public. Why all the speculation? I just think at this time they want privacy. They are between seasons so there is no need for them to video or make public a private event in their lives.

Anonymous said...

I'm getting kind of bored with the Duggers. I hope TLC does a spinoff with one of their kids when the show end. I could be called something like "Free Jinger" maybe? :)

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, I'm the one who mentioend being a friend of Amy's on FB. I agree... a fish smells like a fish. If the Duggars were really doing their show for the right reasons it seems that they would reach out for prayer right now or at least let viewers know how Josie was doing. They can't let us in on all the ridiculous little details of their lives then shut us out at an important time like this. Well, they can, but it really makes no sense. I think they need to re examine their reasons for doing the show in the first place. Lots of people like them now, and if they cared at all, they'd be grateful for the support.

Can't See Sheep said...

Ohio Buckeye said...
I find their world and life view anything BUT 'the GOOD news'; I find their message stifling and depressing.
---------------------------------

Looks like I'm in the same boat as you are on this Ohio Buckeye. The problem is every time I go to expand on why I feel this, I end up with a 2 page essay, it was 3 & a half, but I've got it down to 2. Until I can whittle it down further I'll have to leave this answer as it is so I don't drive the mods & other bloggers nuts.

Anon 3:14 said...

@Bubbles said: "I've seen several comments saying the Duggars are hypocritical but no evidence to back this up. Anyone?"

------------------

Here's just one small one:

In one episode, Josh held up a small sheet to hide Anna's stomach during her ultrasound.

But then they put the birth video out there for the whole world to see.

Ohio Buckeye said...

Bubbles said, "What is it about Josh that makes him seem smug to some of the previous posters? I have not felt that way. To me he seems insecure and a little nervous, but friendly and almost overly eager to be helpful and come across as more self assured than he feels inside (hence some of his joking around)."

******************************

I'm not one who made a statement about Josh's 'smugness', so this is just a guess and JMO:

I feel kinda sorry for the guy. Probably a relatively nice person, but, being the oldest in a family like the Duggars, I'm guessing he is JB&M's "flagship model" in carrying on their family name/beliefs into the next generation.

Also, like all his sibs, he has been raised in a bubble, so his life experiences are but a peephole into the real world.

Wisdom comes from time and experience. Josh has had neither.

When at the "marriageable" age, he dutifully found an 'appropriate' mate, carried out the whole 'no kiss before marriage' thing (on tv yet), and also dutifulloy immediately started his own family.

My guess is he is trying to be all patriarch-y, like he has been taught, yet lacks the wisdom yet, due to his life being so insulated.

It seems he has his 'big boy pants' on, but, at this early juncture, knows only how to try to be JimBob, The Sequel.

His offering suggestions for how to sustain or restore a marriage seem a bit pretentious, considering he's such a newlywed himself.

JMO, and just trying to answer the question raised here on the blog. Others, feel free to toss in your own thoughts.

Anonymous said...

I am not offended that there are no updates on the Duggar site; it's a trying time and they are away from home. However, I don't understand why Amy can't update anything. I saw a video of the Duggars (TLC out-takes but on a different site). One of the youngest daughters, Hannie I believe; was on Michelle's lap. I was VERY unimpressed with Michelle's dynamic with the little girl. Michelle seemed awkward and her affection seemed force. I really don't believe that she has an emotionally intimate relationship with each child. Her actions regarding the protest reinforce this notion.

I don't take the Duggars form of faith very seriously. (No need to get into labels, we all know what they espouse.) It seems to be more about control than spiritual growth through a relationship with G-d. It seems more like a patriarchal farce than faith, JMO.

Anonymous said...

Josh and Anna's public birth seemed to violate the persistent calls by the Duggars for modesty. I understand why he was "down there" looking, and I don't have a problem with it, but really; must it be televised? It also appeared that Anna had a limited choice in the matter (I haven't watched all the episodes, so feel free to correct me.) I don't find people's "immodest" dress to effect me one way or the other, but watching a young, naive girl in obvious pain giving birth on TV evoked an emotional response for me. Childbirth, was a private moment between my husband and me. Just goes to show that modesty is in the eye of the beholder!

Anonymous said...

Again, I have to agree that it is strange they are not taking prayer requests. The family believes in the strength of prayer... so why would Amy be told to not ask for prayers on behalf of Josie?

Anonymous said...

From what I understand from watching the show and hearing Michelle speak about their modesty, it's modesty in the sexual sense. They cover up while swimming. You don't see the girls showing cleavage. The boys are encouraged to look down - NIKE! - when other women are exposing more than the Duggars like. But there is nothing even remotely sexual about the birth of a baby.

Amanda said...

Other than the initial announcements through e-mails and phone calls the family has not acknowledged Josie. As a previous poster said if Michelle has time to protest an liquor license then they have time to update a website, any website, and say for example the Josie is stable and they covet our prayers.

I said it before and here I am saying it again...I don't think they know how to handle this situation.

Anonymous said...

Why were you so repulsed?

I'm guessing I was repulsed because that is how I was raised. A woman such as Anna who talks about modesty should never have had that "most private of scenes" shown on tv. The camera angle was uncalled for. If Josh wants to birth his babies, great, but please, have him standing by her side or something. Not with his face inbetween her spread legs. (I cringe writing it.)
She was judging the weddig dresses the other women wore on the wedding dress episode. Come on...please talk the talk, walk the walk. ps. I'm not against a dad helping the wife give birth, it just should not be filmed by TLC and shown around the world.

Anonymous said...

I am in complete agreement with those who dont chastise the Duggar family for wanting some time off from the stark spotlight.

Those who are critical of them for not requesting prayers perhaps feel curiosity for details.

Enough already.... I pray the baby recovers or finds peace if that is the case. Its not in our hands!

Anonymous said...

^^^^^^^^^" I'm the one who mentioend being a friend of Amy's on FB. I agree... a fish smells like a fish. If the Duggars were really doing their show for the right reasons it seems that they would reach out for prayer right now or at least let viewers know how Josie was doing. They can't let us in on all the ridiculous little details of their lives then shut us out at an important time like this. Well, they can, but it really makes no sense. I think they need to re examine their reasons for doing the show in the first place. Lots of people like them now, and if they cared at all, they'd be grateful for the support.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
They have thanked people for their support and prayers, what else do you want? Amy shouldn't be on the internet running her mouth about that baby, she isn't the mother.

Somebody's Nana said...

Anonymous said Lots of people like them now, and if they cared at all, they'd be grateful for the support.

But they did! If you go back and see, they did thank everyone for their prayers and support. They ARE grateful, but do they have to put out weekly updates to show that? No.

They are doing exactly what we would be demanding they do (keeping this a private family matter) if they were instead placing Josie in the public eye. If Josie is truly the main concern, than we should be grateful they are protecting her, not complaining that we don't have enough information.

WE are not the center of attention. Just because they are on a television show does NOT mean they owe us anything in the way of information. It is not our life.

barb said...

I am stating right now if TLC comes up with a big special on Josie's birth and her fight for life I will never again watch the show. How could the Duggar's and TLC not let the public know how Josie is doing and then use it for money making purposes? If this is the case, it is shameful and the Duggars will have lost all my respect and their credibility.

Anonymous said...

I think all reality TV is fake. I used to watch a ghost show. I thought the two guys were so honest and true. Come to find out it was fake. The one person who came out and admitted it, retracted her statements in fear of a lawsuit from the channel. Why did Michelle Duggar have such a hard time finding a modest wedding gown at Kleinfields (sp) They said on the show they have modest gowns for orthodox Jewish brides. For ratings that's why.
These reality stars sign their lives away. It's to the point where I think the law should step in. Where is freedom of speech if your afraid to speak out about anything because you signed a contract? It's too weired for me. Too much like selling your soul for money.

Sami said...

I watched the video title Erin Bates goes to College and noticed that Erin has a very nice ring on her finger. Less like a plain thin band and more like a very pretty...decorative ring is the best way I can say it. Not engagement just different. I was wondering about that.

Also I was thinking that the Bates get quite a bit of attention this season and maybe tlc is planning on starting a series based on them. It would make sense to me. I wonder...

Anonymous said...

I'm somewhat new to the Duggar's, please help me understand this...
TLC just pays the parents' and not the kids? Also, I saw Josh and Anna's wedding episode and I'm assuming TLC paid for it, yet they were all talking about how generous and frugal the church family was. What gives?

StoptheSilliness said...

I echo many of the P.P. Enough is enough with the BIG! families, the MULTIPLES, and the like. ! Oh, and the going-on-national-teevee-to-announce-our-pregnancies-and-conception-dates. Gah!
And pardon me but, I personally know (IRL,where we all should be living our lives) several people and families who can use prayers and well wishes, and/or help. For sick children of their own, or their own ailments, or financial duress. The Duggars will do JUST FINE without my lil'ol' concern or prayers , etc. If they don't wish to update the people that, frankly, ARE true "Fans" of theirs, then so be it, but then later don't ask for sympathy, either overtly or subtley. It does NOT work both ways.
Personally? I do not have a vested interest in the Josie situation, except to wish her well in a generic way, as I would wish any STRANGER well in the same circumstance. But, I DO think they could do an update or two for those true fans of theirs, who have shown so much support and good wishes. JMO

SameHere said...

Anonymous said...
I've seen several comments saying the Duggars are hypocritical but no evidence to back this up. Anyone?

I know people who don't even watch the show say things like, "are they the family that doesn't watch tv, but have a tv show?
How about exposing your entire family to the world, advertising for people to watch and then asking for privacy?
Talking about purity, chastity, and modesty and showing your sonograms and births on tv?
My mom would never in a million years ever let any of us, her other kids, in the room when she had a baby. I never saw that woman, ever, even in her underwear. Heaven forbid. Now, she was modest, but never preached it to others.
Talking about the day the baby was conceived? My mom would have died if she heard another woman say that. So many things...
I could go on and on... If you want more let me know.

1/12/2010 5:47 PM

Anonymous said...
Plus, I don't know about anyone else, but when Anna was giving birth at home and her legs were spread out wide and Josh had his face in there watching, I was repulsed. This from a family that wears bathing suits from the 1800's
Sorry, not buying it. I have an aunt who has never worn pants, only skirts. My grandma never did either. If we had a boyfriend over and sat on his lap, my mom called us quietly in the kitchen and told us to get off. These women never used birth control and had huge families. Why do the Duggars act like this is all so new or abnormal? Just because people don't have a tv show announcing things, or telling other people, doesn't mean America isn't full of people that follow God in their own way. We're Catholic and believe me, they are espousing everything I grew up with. It's nothing they've discovered. So please, from the daughter of a very modest women, no more spread eagle shots.

1/12/2010 5:59 PM

, So much word! And Anonymous, here's some more : In our family, you did NOT use the WORD "Pregnant." It was "Expecting."
and Anon#2, I didn't watch the birth epi simply b/c I did NOT WISH to view the spread eagle thingie. Blurred out in the center or no. Hell, I was mildly embarrassed to view after the fact the video hubby took of my daughter's birth. And the fact he showed the video the night of her birth to my IN-LAWS!! (no blurred out fuzzies, thanks very much) Gah!!! Not necessary, IMO.
I dunno; to me, seeing the new babe all wiped off anc wrapped up in the mother's arms would ,truly, be sufficient. Thanks.

Kat said...

I find it fascinating how our different experiences, personalities, and opportunities shape our perceptions of others. Someone asked how some viewers find Josh smug? I actually find both he and JimBob to be smarmy - that is, I get the impression they are always looking to impress people. Hence JimBob's incessant, "Hi, I'm JimBob and these are my EIGHTEEN children" type of comments, and Josh with his "No other car dealer would think to nail license plates on a wall" observations. Uh, yeah, okay. Whatever.

Now maybe (and probably) they are highly insecure people, and are simply overcompensating. I happen to think that explains a lot of JimBob - I think he wasn't exactly a popular kid, and wasn't athletic or intellectual or anything else that would get him noticed. Now that he is successful, he is on a mission to "show everyone" what a success he is. I think he truly adores Michelle because he can't believe that a cute cheerleader would ever have given him the time of day, let alone marry him and agree to let him rule the household.

Josh has always talked a big line (I'm gonna be a...lawyer, video/film producer, etc.), which was kinda cute when he was 16, but no more. In real life, he sorta runs a marginal used car lot, seems to spend much of his time at home, and acts much younger than someone his age, let alone someone who's married and has a baby. His video/web company is "successful" only because he contracts out to TLC, who pays him to do the websites and film such events as Mackynzie's birth.

I don't know if he truly thinks his earnest observations are demonstrating his great wisdom and insight, or if he's just spouting what he thinks he "ought" to be saying. In either case, I find a 20-year-old with the life experience and world view of a much younger child trying to give us all words to live by to be simultaneously amusing and annoying.

Now, I'm willing to concede that the show may have "ruined" Josh, in that without the income from the show, he would have had to develop his business skills and/or seek additional education. The "easy money" and the "celebrity" lifestyle seem very much to have gone to his head, and destroyed whatever other ambitions he might have had. But I think he would still be smarmy. Sorry if that offends Josh fans.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous: "But there is nothing even remotely sexual about the birth of a baby."

--------------------

I used to think the Duggars were a "family show" suitable for any age to view.

Then came the episode where Michelle talked about the girls keeping track of her menstrual cycles.

Then came the episode of JimBob having the "sex education talk" with Josh.

Then came the episode of Anna giving birth and I thought, yikes, if I had a young child there's no way I would have let him/her watch that.

I don't know why they have to "put it all out there". They claim to be modest, but really, I just don't see it.

And on another note, I didn't see any of them yelling "Nike!" when Dolly Parton stepped into the room to meet them.

Cyn said...

I still can't reconcile some of their questionable info. regarding science, yet their use of technology when the pregnancy went bad (though I believe they made the right choice!)
*************************************
The only thing they have an issue with is how we GOT here... they believe God created the world and everything in it in 6 days. Darwin says thousands of years.

The Duggars are not of the sect of Christianity that think Doctors are evil, or that giving or receiving blood makes one damned to hell for eternity... So where would the issue arise?

They also aren't Amish so why can't they use technology?

Anonymous said...

Modesty is related to more things than sexual enticement. IMO it isn't modest to be filmed as Anna was giving birth. Did anyone of us really need to see that? Was it edifying or enhancing to the audience or was it something better kept private than be fodder for a TLC TV episode?

Ohio Buckeye said...

Can'tSeeSheep said, "Ohio Buckeye said...
I find their world and life view anything BUT 'the GOOD news'; I find their message stifling and depressing.
---------------------------------

Looks like I'm in the same boat as you are on this Ohio Buckeye. The problem is every time I go to expand on why I feel this, I end up with a 2 page essay, it was 3 & a half, but I've got it down to 2. Until I can whittle it down further I'll have to leave this answer as it is so I don't drive the mods & other bloggers nuts"

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

I know exactly what you mean! I especially get worked up about people believing even newborn babies 'have a sin nature'. WOW, that one fires me right on up - to lay this on a sweetly innocent new little life. And the whole thing about locking kids away on the family compound combined home schooling so as not to have them contaminated by 'non believers,' as if we are all the spawn of Satan or something is another thing that makes their show a compass showing me that I am SURE I'm on the right personal path for my own life (heading AWAY from Duggarville).

As portrayed on TV, the Duggars seem to think that mankind is inherently evil-prone, life scary, and god, though 'merciful and loving' has a real bent toward vindictiveness, with a thin veil of 'justice'.

Men are the rulers, women subservient. Women get tossed a crumb about 'birthing god's warriors' to keep them busy, so they don't get involved in the REAL decision making in the family and the world.

To each his/her own, but I don't get it, and I find their show (though I get my news elsewhere than watching TLC anymore) to do the opposite of sparking my interest in joining them. Their show repels me further from 'faith'/religion and those who make such a big, open display about it.

Ohio Buckeye said...

Didn't see the home birth epi, but from reading the comments herein, it sounds like this episode was far more graphic than what we, as nursing students, were shown as an introduction to childbirth - a video that did depict a real birth, but not nearly as 'up close and personal' as has been described of Anna's delivery. Interesting.

Anonymous said...

************************"Didn't see the home birth epi, but from reading the comments herein, it sounds like this episode was far more graphic than what we, as nursing students, were shown as an introduction to childbirth - a video that did depict a real birth, but not nearly as 'up close and personal' as has been described of Anna's delivery. Interesting."****************************************

It wasn't graphic at all. Even when she was laboring in the bathtub she had on a huge white terrycloth bathrobe of some kind.

You never saw any of Anna's private parts, unless you count the top of her knees.

Anonymous said...

"Women get tossed a crumb about 'birthing god's warriors'

Who uses that phrase? Never heard the Duggars use it.

Anonymous said...

I'd rather presume the best of people in terms of their actions and motives -

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people do to. However, the sad truth, as we've seen, reality TV is anything but. It is sad to put young children on a show. I remember hearing that one of Anna's brother-in-law's didn't want to sign a form that TLC insisted everyone had to if they were in the weddding party. He eventually did, to keep peace, but was upset about it. Right there tells us that something is not right. He HAD to sign it. That's pretty dang scary. I pray these producers stop the madness and take innocent children off these
(sp) shows. Their parents obviously don't have the sense to do it.
John Gosselin did but TLC is suing him. Go figure.

Prospector Sam said...

I, too believe that the Duggars are hypocritical in how they pick and choose when to be modest. To the person who pointed out that there's nothing sexual about childbirth: there's nothing sexual about young girls wearing pants or little boys running in shorts but somehow that doesn't fit the Duggar model of modesty, does it?
And if their clothing choices are about the whole "men shouldn't wear womens clothes and vice versa" from Deuteronomy, then who decides what era they lock in their choices and never change? Bible times when men wore tunics and robes? Doublets and hose from the 1600's? (a lot of people think that the thees and thou's of the King James bible is proper biblical language, so maybe they'd like to dress from that era!)Victorian dress? the 50's?
I just can't help but wonder who gets to decide the dress code since jeans, polo shirts and long skirts with running shoes were never mentioned in either testament. ;)

Anonymous said...

You never saw any of Anna's private parts, unless you count the top of her knees.
----------

With Josh's face in between them. Sorry, no matter how you try to justify it, that camera angle was for ratings. That was wrong on so many levels. I'm curious how Anna's parents felt about that?

Ohio Buckeye said...

Prospector Sam: EXCELLENT POINTS, especially about the Duggars considering normal, modern day children's wear immodest.

As you pointed out, why, then, not go all the way with the whole modesty thing and put veils and facial masks (on the WOMEN, of course) and dress the males in togas or robes? Enjoyed your observations!

Anonymous said...

**********"there's nothing sexual about young girls wearing pants or little boys running in shorts but somehow that doesn't fit the Duggar model of modesty, does it?****************

To some freaky weird people out there, children are sexualized. So why complain about the Duggars trying to teach modesty (which begins with training when they are young) and dressing them modestly now?

Ohio Buckeye said...

Anonymous asked, ""Women get tossed a crumb about 'birthing god's warriors'

Who uses that phrase? Never heard the Duggars use it."

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Quiverful Folk use that term. Two QF wives (not Mrs. D) are currently making the interview circuit pushing a book with the title, "Birthing God's Mighty Warriors".

Celestie said...

I found the birthing scene a little disturbing. I actually like to watch birthing of humans and animals in a scientific setting, but not on reality shows. I don't think Anna had much say about the home birth. It seems like Josh made a half hearted effort to call the doctor, then he (and TLC) decided, why not just do it here? Anna looked petrified. I felt truly sorry for her. Her Mom wasn't there, but they made sure Michelle or "Mrs. Duggar" was in attendance. It wasn't sexy, but it was voyeurism. I felt Anna was being offered up as a sacrificial lamb. What should be a special time or her, became a freak show.
If anything illustrates how women are subjected to the will of their husbands, right or wrong, this episode did.

Anonymous said...

From my reading from other Quiverful and very large family conservative Christians, they are trying to produce their 20 kids, 400 grandchildren and 8000 great grandchildren in order to outbreed the Muslims and immigrants, to keep the "Christian White" dominant, also in politics.. I read that directly on two different women's sites (not the Duggars, but they do follow very similar beliefs as these women).

Prospector Sam said...

Anonymous said "to some freaky weird people children are sexualized"....
I'm no expert on pedophiles, but I highly doubt that a person that screwed up cares if a child is in a romper or a burkha.Is a little girl in overalls less modest than one in a skirt? I'm not saying children shouldn't be dressed appropriately (and I for one would never allow my children to be photographed unclothed, or publicly filmed in swimwear), but by insisting that very young girls wear only skirts and never allowing children to wear shorts or bare arms, it seems to be suggesting an element of sexuality that just isn't there.
Who knows, maybe there are also freaky weird people out there who find childbirth to be a turn on. Does that make it sexual?

Deanna said...

The Duggars aren't dressed modestly. Not really. The girls wear shirts that are too tight, which clearly outline their breasts. They wear skirts as short as their knees and flip flops (I know some people don't think there is a problem with flip flops, but they are definitely not modest!).

Here they make a big deal about those silly "modestwear" swimsuits, and won't allow the boys to wear bermuda shorts to run, but then show a birth on TV (even bare knees and Josh looking in is too much, not to mention the fact that obviously the cameramen were there).

That's the point. Some of us wear pants, let our kids wear nice one piece bathingsuits and shorts, and would never, ever have anyone birthing with us besides our health professionals and husbands! I didn't even want my mother there! I would NEVER have allowed cameramen, and then, HORRORS, to have the whole thing shown on national tv. It is beyond comprehension that a "modest" family, who yells NIKE at a girl in a lowcut top, would have cameras in while birthing!

Red Line said...

You don't have to not "see any private parts" for something to be graphic and inappropriate for television. There are tons of sex scenes in movies/tv that don't show a single "private" part, but they are still overly graphic, and present too much. Josh staring between Anna's legs on TV was graphic. Plain and simple. Especially for the Duggar family. I don't care if she was doing something as wonderful as childbirth. Why not just show an "after" shot with Anna holding the baby? Wouldn't that be just as "encouraging" to other families? Why in the world did they need to show poor Anna's legs in the air? MONEY and RATINGS

If a premature baby in the NICU is such a private matter, then Anna's labor and delivery should have been a private matter too. I dont know where they get their "principles" on these TLC matters, but honestly they baffle me.

I guarantee you, had Michelle carried Josie to term, we would have seen her be birthed too.

Anonymous said...

To some freaky weird people out there, children are sexualized. So why complain about the Duggars trying to teach modesty (which begins with training when they are young) and dressing them modestly now?

Then why are the Duggars exposing their precious children to the likes of them? My kids might run into a freak here and there, but these kids are viewed by thousands of them. It is so contradictory to the beliefs they profess. I'll say it again. If the parents want to parade themselves around on tv fine. But not your children. They didn't ask for this.

Anonymous said...

"The Duggars are not of the sect of Christianity that think Doctors are evil, or that giving or receiving blood makes one damned to hell for eternity... So where would the issue arise?

They also aren't Amish so why can't they use technology?"

I am so glad the Duggars are using technology to keep themselves and Josie healthy and well.

The issue is that they think some technology is evil, and some good. Using birth control of any kind, in their opinion, stands in the way of God's will. However, using a ventilator could also be seen as standing in the way of God's will. If God opens and closes the womb, then why can't He also keep a pre mature baby alive, if that is His will? No technology needed. Why would God's will require technological intervention in one situation, but not in another?

To me, I don't see this as comparing apples and oranges because what it boils down to is God's will and human's intervention with it using science and technology. If we are asked to not stand in the way in one area (fertility), then we should surrender all areas, right?

Judy said...

I'm reading the comments about "modesty" (what is and isn't considered appropriate to be shown) and I'm confused. It doesn't seem to just be sexuality vs. other things -- for example, the Duggars won't allow the women to have their stomachs shown during ultrasounds -- a sheet is quickly supplied to avoid seeing skin. So it isn't just "sexuality" that seems to be a modesty issue -- and strangely, while they won't allow their stomachs to be shown, they have no trouble having their births shown.

Anonymous said...

*************Quiverful Folk use that term. ****************


Good thing Michelle Duggars isn't a part of the Quiverfull movement!!!

Maybe someone could start a Quiverfull Movement Without Pity blog for discussions about them?

Anonymous said...

*******************Ohio Buckeye said...

Prospector Sam: EXCELLENT POINTS, especially about the Duggars considering normal, modern day children's wear immodest. **********************

More people than just the Duggars abhor society's fixation on dressing children in Brittany Spears sl*twear.

Anonymous said...

"Sorry, no matter how you try to justify it, that camera angle was for ratings. "

The fact remains that nothing was shown of Anna except the top of her knees.

Anonymous said...

Amy posted on Facebook today, "Baby Josie is 2lbs 4 ounces - praise the Lord!" I also find it offensive that some people say she shouldn't be talking about the baby. Josie IS one of her relatives, you know. People on Facebook are constantly hounding her for updates, and she is going through this terrible time as well and has every right to ask for prayer, in my opinion. She seems like a wonderful girl to me.

Anonymous said...

StoptheSilliness - Amen. Couldn't have said it better. Thank you for your post regarding having their cake and eating it too.
-Christina

SuzanneDeAZ said...

Update on the Duggar's baby:

http://www.examiner.com/x-/x-32213-Memphis-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m12d17-Duggar-baby-19-update-Duggar-family-remains-healthy-video

Marybeth said...

I just want you all to stop and think for just one moment. There might not be anything to update us on. I say this from experience. I too had an emergency c-section from pre-eclampsia and my daughter was in the NICU. Every day I would get calls and emails asking how she was doing, and to be honest, there was never any news to report. She was doing exactly the same as she was doing the day before---fine---as best as to be expected. Like the Duggars as well I was far from home, further actually, as I had given birth in a foreign country (my husband is British and we were living in London) so I had to do the whole thing without the help of my mommy by my side. And then I had to go through the aftermath of visiting her in the hospital everyday once I was released.

Ask yourselves, how many times can they say "she's doing well, as best as can be expected" and how many times do you really want to hear it? And when they say that on a daily basis, how many times would you start to ask yourselves if it was really true?

It just may be that they are adopting what my family has done since I was in college---no news is good news. Call us when you're in trouble, otherwise we'll assume everything is ok, until we get the weekly catch up/news call.

It also may be that they are finally focusing in on themselves instead of outward on us--something that the people who write on this blog have been suggesting all along.

I am going to go with "no news is good news" because I'm sure that "People" magazine would let us know if something went wrong.

Bubbles said...

I can see where some may consider them hypocritical regarding modesty, but to me that is more of an issue of one's personal belief of what modesty should entail.

As a perfect example, someone mentioned that the show about Anna giving birth not being suitable for children. I have a 5 yr old daughter who is fascinated by pregnant women & babies, and I let her watch that episode. I don't see it as immodest but I understand why some do. I'm an RN so maybe that plays a role for me.

Thanks for giving me some examples. I am not convinced this makes them hypocritical but I can understand where others are coming from when they say that.

Anonymous said...

*********The issue is that they think some technology is evil, and some good.******************

It seems you are misunderstanding what the Duggars really believe. They don't think BC is "evil." They don't use it because they don't want to miss any blessings the Lord has for them via children.

Using BC (for them) would stop something that is working perfectly fine and make it not work.

Technology being used to help Josie is fixing something.

Anonymous said...

"Sorry, no matter how you try to justify it, that camera angle was for ratings. "

The fact remains that nothing was shown of Anna except the top of her knees.

And her pain and fear, her legs up in stirrups, spread wide (I HATE that personally and can't even fatham having it filmed for the world.) And her husband, much too close for comfort in between her legs. This from a woman who professess modesty and will not show her KNEES in a skirt walking around? I'm with another poster, she seemed made to to it.
The feeling I get from Josh is he's not a nine to five kinda guy. I wonder how much they got paid for that home birth. I venture to say plenty. I feel sorry for Anna. She seems like a nice kid. If she was my daughter, I'd be horrified for her and pissed at Josh. JMO
And I stick with my comment. It was wrong.

Anonymous said...

I didn't say that there was anything sexual at all about the birth. That is totally misstating my position. I said no modest person would allow that to be have been filmed and shown. There is a big difference in sexuality and general modesty. It was completely unnecessary to have done that except to get ratings. I didn't even say that things were viewed as graphic. Someone else inserted that comment. It just wasn't needed except that TLC wanted it for an episode.

I felt sorry for Anna and really doubt that she wanted extra people following her around and to have to "perform" her first birth for the cameras and national television. If she did, then again I don't see that as "modest."

Jane in California said...

I agree with those that feel Anna giving birth should not have been filmed, and further agree that she probably didn't have much say-so and would have preferred not to have been filmed. Josh doesn't seem to have much common sense or boundaries, and he probably saw dollar signs rather than his wife's feelings in this regard. Being the good little wife, she meekly went along.

One of the things I find often surprising is that while I am one of the posters here who is supposedly liberal, non-church going, etc. -- my views on so many things are much more conservative than the Duggars. I would never consider allowing cameras to film me giving birth. It simply would be out of the question. It's a matter of good taste and privacy. I seriously doubt anyone will convert to conservative religion by watching a young woman giving birth.

I don't think Josh is the sort that can see beyond his own desires. To him, all this filming is great because he sees the dollar signs. Whereas JB may be motivated by wanting to spread some message and the money, I see Josh as solely motivated by the money. It makes life easier, so let's do what TLC wants.

In all of this, I feel most for Anna. With a husband who would put money first, there is a lot of room for heartbreak in the mix.

doggie said...

I doubt few men are going to be good about patriarchy. most will let it go to their heads.
I bet there are more then a few of these men looking at porn cheating and or having impure thoughts about other women. when they are free to do as the please and to get away from the heard of kids.

Cyn said...

Just out of curiosity (regarding where Josh was and what he was 'staring at' during Anna's birth) since he was catching the baby where exactly SHOULD he have been or where SHOULD he have been looking as the baby exited the birth canal??

Had it been the doula there or a doctor no one would have had an issue... But for the commenter that said 'Josh should have been to the side' and do what let the baby hit the FLOOR?

***********************************

As to the modesty and the length of the dresses and as to why no shorts THIS was the verse JimBob gave as to why =
"I read in the bible some where where to show your thigh was like nakedness"

Exd 28:42 And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:

Personally if I was going to answer something on national TV about why we dress this way I would have a BETTER verse in mind since this actually dealt with something completely different that what JimBob misquoted on top of being completely out of context. At the same time that does explain the skirts to the knees it's still covering the thighs so would be considered still "modest".

(The tighter tops though I agree with most just need to go)

Ohio Buckeye said...

Anonymous said, "More people than just the Duggars abhor society's fixation on dressing children in Brittany Spears sl*twear."

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

I'm not talking about Britney-wear. I hate that, too - looks like hooker attire.

I'm just talking about normal, young children shorts and tshirts and dresses that do not have to extend below the knee.

Kliff said...

I think Jackson Bates ought to get his own show. That kid is hilarious.

Anonymous said...

To Suzanne: The website which you posted is dated Dec. 17th so it is not an update. As has been stated before there has been no update since Dec. 18th.

Anonymous said...

I posted earlier, but have sat back and just read everything for awhile. It's been very interesting. I, too am one of the non churchgoing, liberal posters.
I also find myself to be very conservative in some areas, though I consider myself a liberal. I would never allow myself to be filmed during childbirth, I believe in being debt free, and I believe in a strong family life, which I have; just without the church interfering. (All of MY liberal friends are married, none have second marriages, and most are very active in community outreach; all of MY conservative friends are on their second marriages-go figure?!)

Regarding JB's use of scripture: anyone can pull verses from the bible and use it to justify a point. It was done for years to justify slavery and other unsavory acts. I cannot take anyone seriously who does this. That is why I don't take much of what he says seriously. I believe he uses scripture to control, rather than guide his family. I cannot respect a man who gets his wife pregnant 19 times, especially after she has had C-sections and pre-ecclampsia in the past. I am well aware that many women have had that many children, but that doesn't mean it's good for a woman's body. Michelle's risk for a mortal post-partum hemorrhage goes up with age and every baby. The risk of uterine rupture is high both due to past c-sections, age and # of pregnancies. Her heart, bones and teeth are at risk. Every notice how much women shrink as they age? Number of pregnancies is a factor. While nursing is thought to reduce the risk of breast CA, pregnancies after 40 actually increases the risk, particularly for hormone dependent tumors. I also realize that it takes two to tango, but he is supposed to be the leader in the home, so he should take the bull by the horns and put a stop to it.

This is why I also believe there is a disconnect with their belief in science. The science is saying they should stop getting pregnant. The science is good enough to intervene with Josie (I am glad they did!), but it is not good enough for JB to stop feeding his ego and getting his wife pregnant every year. The creation museum was a whole separate debacle. Truth is, I don't think JB is all that educated. He obviously has some business savvy, but other than that; he's certainly not an intellectual giant. JMO

Anonymous said...

Had it been the doula there or a doctor no one would have had an issue... But for the commenter that said 'Josh should have been to the side' and do what let the baby hit the FLOOR?
-------------
Maybe I need to explain more clearly. I WOULD have had an issue if it were a doctor or doula, down there in between her legs on national tv.
As for the baby hitting the floor, nope, that wouldn't be good either. Actually it was wonderful Josh was there to catch the baby. Maybe the CAMERAMAN should not have been there filming it all particularly at that ever-exposing, ever-personal angle. Maybe THAT'S what I meant.

Anonymous said...

The issue is that they think some technology is evil, and some good. Using birth control of any kind, in their opinion, stands in the way of God's will. However, using a ventilator could also be seen as standing in the way of God's will. If God opens and closes the womb, then why can't He also keep a pre mature baby alive, if that is His will? No technology needed. Why would God's will require technological intervention in one situation, but not in another?
###########################

There is a difference in intention. Birth control destroys the creation of life or in other ways interfers with the normal functions of our bodys as created by God. Using technology to sustain life is different. People of faith (as the Duggars and myself) know that without the will of God, all the technology in the world won't save someone who is supposed to die. But we do our part(the doctors do theirs) and we leave the rest up to God, having faith in Him and His will.

momofnearly8

Celestie said...

Like Jane in California, I'm a liberal non church attender, but probably more modest in dress than most people. I never show cleavage, midriff, or wear tight clothing. I also felt confident when I gave birth, because I was surrounded by medical professionals in a safe and sanitary location. I can't imagine on my most liberal day, of having strangers view this very personal, experience.
What next, we enter the bedroom of Josh and Anna, to watch them conceive the next Duggar?
Has nothing to do with sex, everything to do with personal boundaries and voyarism.

Anonymous said...

"What next, we enter the bedroom of Josh and Anna, to watch them conceive the next Duggar?"


Your above comment seems to have everything to do with sex, and nothing to do with personal boundaries and voyeurism.

Why would anyone equate the wholesome and beautiful birth of a baby with filming Josh and Anna having sex????

Anonymous said...

Using technology to sustain life is different. People of faith (as the Duggars and myself) know that without the will of God, all the technology in the world won't save someone who is supposed to die.
*****************************
As a critical care and trauma nurse, I can tell you that technology does keep brain dead people alive. These people would otherwise die. When a nuclear medicine test is done to test for brain death (not an EEG), there is NO circulation to the brain. It is called, "hot nose sign". These people would die-unequivocally. I have been on a team or by myself as a medic and I have saved people who were literally minutes from death-using the technology and training of the modern day.

The point is, medicine has advanced so much in the past century, that even the most astute lay person would have a difficult time keeping up. Saying that technology can't help someone if God calls them isn't necessarily true. It may be some people's belief, but I don't believe it, so...? I guess we agree to disagree.

Regarding the Duggars, I believe the information they dole out regarding the pill is grossly incorrect. Since this was covered in the last board, I won't go there. It appears to me that science is a convenience when it works for them and their philosophy, but heresy when it contradicts their belief system. You can't have it both ways. If they believe in science for saving lives, then how about hearing about the science of pregnancy risks, evolution, nutrition, the environment and child development.

My heart just breaks when I hear statements referring to the will of God determining if a someone lives or dies. I have seen too many children die to believe that a loving god would take someone's child away. It puts a lot of guilt onto the families and it really is cold. I have wrestled with these questions for years, and I am satisfied with my conclusion, so I won't torture the board with my points. I just wish every American could spend a year in a big hospital and see what goes on-I don't mean with a family member either. I mean, really spend a year in the schtuff and see how things happen. I know it knocked me around for a few years!

Anonymous said...

Re: What next, we enter the bedroom of Josh and Anna, to watch them conceive the next Duggar?
Has nothing to do with sex, everything to do with personal boundaries and voyarism.

I noticed on the honeymoon episode,when they were showing the house where they were staying,TLC managed to squeeze in a shot of the bedroom.is nothing sacred?? It doesn't matter if it was a made bed with no one in it,I felt the intent behind it was rather hinky and goes without saying.

Anon 3:14 said...

In the opening lines of every episode, they show the pics of the family with Michelle's voiceover.

It really rubs me the wrong way to hear her voice say, "..and I DELIVERED every one of them !"

As opposed to what Michelle? Does that mean that you are somehow a better mother because you delivered them versus adopting them?

The whole thing just screams "look at me and how great I am !".

Sarah S said...

Regarding Michelle's voiceover where she says "And I delivered every one of them..", I never took it as a "look at me" statement. I think it's the statement she would use if people were like "No way... You're the mom for ALL of these children... and they're not adopted? Get out!" I always thought it was a response to the "Shut up! You gave birth to 19 children!" crowd. Be honest, when you first heard how many children she had, you had to be like "Wow...!" At least that was my response!

Cyn said...

In the opening lines of every episode, they show the pics of the family with Michelle's voiceover.

It really rubs me the wrong way to hear her voice say, "..and I DELIVERED every one of them !"

As opposed to what Michelle? Does that mean that you are somehow a better mother because you delivered them versus adopting them?

The whole thing just screams "look at me and how great I am !".
***********************************

I hear Awe, Gratitude, and Surprise in her voice.

Anonymous said...

Why would anyone equate the wholesome and beautiful birth of a baby with filming Josh and Anna having sex????

Because that's where babies come from. And the Duggar's are perfectly clear in making that known. (Watching periods, dates of conception. Openly touchy, feely, kissy with each other. Listening to sex tapes after the wedding. Nike, don't look at that it could excite you.) I agree with someone else who said this is no longer a family show. I think they need to put a disclaimer in the beginning. Some things they say and show I really don't want my kids to see or know yet.
And it was a beautiful thing for them to have a baby. Wholesome, not sure about that. Josh, Anna and TLC used it to make money. Kinda sad in my books.

Anonymous said...

Why would anyone equate the wholesome and beautiful birth of a baby with filming Josh and Anna having sex????
-----------------

Maybe because Jim Bob put the picture of Josie's conception in my head...I could have lived my whole life not hearing that.

I posted some time ago that JB seems to think highly of his virility. IMO, he & Michelle either need to take the necessary precautions or keep away from each other until her plumbing shuts off. A similar situation happened to a couple I know & after 6 children, her heart was so bad that the doctor looked the husband and asked if he was TRYING to kill his wife? That was wake-up call enough for this Catholic couple to start on birth control.

Katydid

Anonymous said...

I think Josh made some icky comment about "trying all the beds" or something too. I remember cringing.

Anonymous said...

When I hear Michelle say "and I delivered every one of them" I figured she was saying that because with so many children naturally she would be asked a million times if any were adopted.

Just goes to show how we can all hear the exact same thing but it means something different depending on our personalities.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"What next, we enter the bedroom of Josh and Anna, to watch them conceive the next Duggar?"


Your above comment seems to have everything to do with sex, and nothing to do with personal boundaries and voyeurism.

Why would anyone equate the wholesome and beautiful birth of a baby with filming Josh and Anna having sex????
___________________________________

A husband and wife making love is just as wholesome and beautiful as the birth of a baby. Neither should be filmed and televised because both are extremely intimate and should be kept private.

-Emily

CappuccinoLife said...

"It really rubs me the wrong way to hear her voice say, "..and I DELIVERED every one of them !"

As opposed to what Michelle? Does that mean that you are somehow a better mother because you delivered them versus adopting them? "

I think that's presuming motive unfairly.

One of the most commonly asked questions of mothers with many children is "Are they ALL yours?? You gave birth to all of them??" (I only have 3 kids and I get that question sometimes) A lot of people just can't imagine a woman carrying and delivering that many children from her own body, since it's rather uncommon nowadays, and so the question gets asked again and again.

In the intro I am pretty sure she starts that line with "And YES, I delivered all of them". IOW, pre-emptively answering what is probably one of the questions she gets most often. Nothing to do with being "better".

Celestie said...

Your above comment seems to have everything to do with sex, and nothing to do with personal boundaries and voyeurism.

Why would anyone equate the wholesome and beautiful birth of a baby with filming Josh and Anna having sex????

Because having a baby is a beautiful, intimate and wonderful thing between a husband and a wife (and medical attendant). It is not a circus act, with paying customers (TV audience) looking on. So if Josh is willing to open up this part of his life, I ask, what next?

To me, the liberal, it was just too personal a thing to share. And Anna, clearly had no choice.

Anonymous said...

Maybe she says she DELIVERED every one of them because they probably get this question almost everywhere they go. Are they all yours?????????????

Ohio Buckeye said...

@Celestie: Your post made me stop and realize that even pets know enough to stealthily creep away to have privacy while they deliver their kittens/pups in peace and dignity.

No matter how long I worked in Labor & Delivery, I never lost the sense of incredible awe at the whole process of birth - a physiologically amazing thing to behold, a new little life entering the world.

However, such an experience deserves privacy and dignity. I loved your point about not allowing birth to be some kind of 'circus act for paying customers'.

This is, of course, JMO, and to each her own, but I, too, have to wonder how much say birthing moms have in such a patriarchal kingdom as Duggarville.

Ohio Buckeye said...

Anonymous/Emily said, "A husband and wife making love is just as wholesome and beautiful as the birth of a baby. Neither should be filmed and televised because both are extremely intimate and should be kept private.

-Emily

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

WOW!!! Bravo!!! And standing ovation! Well said!

Televising such intimate treasures cheapens them and robs them of their dignity, IMO.

Anonymous said...

I've been on other forums and it seems a lot of people are very disillusioned with the Duggars. Especially since the news of a tv special and so few updates on baby Josie.
I know one thing, if they are going to use this tiny, sick baby for a ratings boost, and it's looking that way, no one can convince me they are doing any of this to convert sinners and spread the gospel. They don't get paid for news updates, but they get paid plenty for a special tv show. Once again a reality show is noting but smoke and mirrors. I hope I'm speaking too soon and it doesn't turn out like that, but they did use Anna's birth to make money so...

NotDizzy said...

I had almost forgotten about that little ditty re. the girls (Michelle's DAUGHTERS) *keeping*track*of*mother's* periods*. The entire thing is just WRONG, on SO many levels. I dont' care how anyone can attempt to spin this one: spin away til you're dizzy. It won't fly.
Not Right.

Deanna said...

The McKynzie birth episode was shown on Discovery Health again last night, and there was a disclaimer at the beginning of the show, with something like, "This episode shows an actual birth which may upset some viewers. Viewer discretion is advised". (The wording may have been different, but it was absolutely a cautionary message).

WHY ON EARTH would Josh and Anna want to show something so immodest that it required a caution message from their TV show?

The whole family has sold out. That's why people are starting to speak negatively about them.

Midwest Mom said...

When I hear Michelle say "and I delivered every one of them" I hear a woman who is very very TIRED and in awe of the fact there hadn't been any complications (at that point anyway, before Josie). I also hear bragging, as in "if I can do it, then all women out there should do it too !".

Prospector Sam said...

I, like many, find it distasteful that this family that proclaims their "modesty" so strongly has sold their privacy, no matter what their reasons. I think the person who made the distinction between "intimate" and "sexual" made an excellent point.
There are so many private, intimate family moments they have shared that no truly modest family would. Birth is intimate, a family's last days with their dying grandparent is intimate. In my mind, children being sick and throwing up, teenage girls recovering from surgery in their beds, any sort of details of anyone's sex life, all these things are not shameful or dirty in any way, but are not appropriate for public consumption!
I guess what really gets my goat as someone who believes in the biblical model of marriage is how JimBob puts himself out there as the "head of the household" and protector of his family's honour while selling out their privacy and parading them in the public eye for money, whether the money is his primary consideration or not. And Josh is following right along, literally selling his daughter's image from the second she's born (and even before).
And they better not try to use the "but the kids love the cameras!" line to excuse their actions. Its the parents job to make decisions in the child's best interest, not based on what the child says they want, and JimBob seems to have no trouble deciding things for his children in all other areas of their lives!

Anonymous said...

Prospector Sam IMO hit the nail on the head. You could not have expressed it better.

Bubbles said...

Oops, I posted this same question on the Josie Update post & realized it probably belongs over here instead...if Cousin Amy is the daughter of JimBob's sister, why is her last name Duggar? Just curious.

Anonymous said...

Amy's last name isn't really Duggar. It's Jordan.

Ollie said...

I don't know if Amy's legal last name is Duggar or if she just goes by it on the show. Since her parents didn't marry until long after she was born, however, she might have been given the mothers last name, making her a Duggar since her mother is Jim Bob's sister.

Starz22 said...

The Duggars are under contract with TLC.We have seen the lenghts that tlc will go to ,to get "ratings".TLC doesnt care about these families...they care about money.They dont care who gets hurt...just as long as they make money.

I think the Duggars are finding that out too late.TLC has control over everything that they want to show or have shown on these (hardly) reality shows.If the Duggars were to refuse anything...they would be sued (tlc is good for that) I hope the Duggars are taking a long hard look at their contracts and do something before they end up like another family tlc killed.

JB like another tlc dad is far from being the sharpest tool in the shed.I hope he gets some good council.He needs some real advice from someone who lives in the real world...or someone who has seen what tlc can (and will) do to a "normal" family.As for the girls/women on this show...they are sol...they have no say what so ever.MD and the girls have to follow JB rule...and now Anna has to obey Josh.I really hope they have some one who can shed some light on this for them...someone JB will listen to.

As for Anna giving birth,I dont think it was what Anna or Josh wanted to do.I believe it was what TLC demanded.They did try to keep as much as they could under wraps.Showing what was shown didnt bother me at all (like another poster said..her knees were hardly pornographic) What bothered me was...Anna looked so scared and tlc didnt bother to have her mother there for her.Not sure about Josh...I dont think he thinks giving birth takes alot of effort,afterall he has seen his mother bring home a baby almost every year of his life.

Sorry so long and back to my point.TLC will force the Duggars to show anything that they think will pull in the ratings.If the Duggars dont like it...its too bad for them.Like I said before,I hope they take a long hard look at their contract and fix it before they lose it all.

Anonymous said...

Re tlc: I have a feeling the Duggars,(especially Anna), are going to look back years from now,and think "I can't believe we did that!!"
I don't think they are going to recall this part of their lives with fondness,in years to come,despite the money.That comes and goes.

Anonymous said...

As for Anna giving birth,I dont think it was what Anna or Josh wanted to do.I believe it was what TLC demanded.They did try to keep as much as they could under wraps.Showing what was shown didnt bother me at all (like another poster said..her knees were hardly pornographic)
-------------------
I think Josh, like you said saw a baby coming into that house every year of his life and "birthing a baby" was no big deal to him. Therefore, he looked at the birth as big bucks.
As far as her knees showing, I don't understand why some people don't get the point. It wasn't about what body part was showing. It was about the fact the woman had her legs spread on national TV with her husbands face right in there. IS THAT MODEST????? Plus during one of the most private, beautiful moments a couple experiences together.
Lets not forget the Duggars are not completely stupid. After all, they were self employed and obviously making it okay before TLC. What has happened is that they, like that other family, love the money and travel and clothes and every thing else that TLC provides. They know the minute the cameras are turned off, so is the stream of money coming in. Especially now with the economy and a sick baby, the want and need that money.
Say what you want. The Duggars are not the same people they were in the beginning. They belong to TLC, whereas before they belonged to their convictions and faith. Someone else mentioned a golden calf. That's what I think of when I think of the Duggars. I don't think people would have a problem with it, or their new found riches, if they weren't so preachy. Just like that other family saying things like, "We will never have a nanny." or "We want to show our kids we will always be married." It only sets you up to fall.

Anonymous said...

Okay - here's the thing I don't get about Anna's birth. Giving birth is a beautiful thing, and it's one thing for a doctor, nurse, and husband to be there - yes, right between the legs. BUT in order to get that shot - there had to be a camera man there (or a camera woman), not to mention producers, sound techs, etc.....That, for me, is where the hypocrisy comes in. You don't let your wife wear pants because they are not modest, but yet you ask her to spread her legs in front of a room full of people?

Anonymous said...

It was about the fact the woman had her legs spread on national TV with her husbands face right in there.

A husband delivering his first child? What's wrong with that? Why would anyone place a sexual meaning to that, as if they were having sex on TV?

Why are people so preachy against the Duggars?

Ollie said...

I think the problem with the Duggars is that they have always been too willing to include the cameras in things they shouldn't be involved in. I think that any video recorder, especially one recording for national TV, should be treated like a friend of the family and only allowed to witness events appropriate to that status. For example: Announcing a pregnancy is alright, as is showing mom and baby after they've had a chance to rest and clean up from birth. Coming along to doctors appointments, or worse to witness the birth, should be considered intrusive and inappropriate. Similarly, showing your wedding on national TV is fine if thats what you want to do, a wedding is after all a semi-public event to start with, but you don't need to invite the cameras along on your honeymoon! I mean most people don't invite a bunch of friends and family to come see them while they honeymoon, why would you even want a TV camera there?
As for the birth, that worried me because so much could have gone wrong. In general I favor home births or birthing centers for low risk women, so I don't object on principal. The problem is that such a decision is not supposed to be made at the last minute! I could be wrong but the way they portrayed it on the show made it seem that Anna was going to go to the hospital but her doctor was out of town and for unknown reasons they hadn't considered what they would do if she went into labor early and so suddenly decided on a home birth. I have to wonder if the decision was made for filming purposes and if so then that is simply disgusting. I don't care how much TLC was willing to pay to film the birth, without a properly trained and supplied midwife in attendance and a planed way to quickly transfer mother and child to a hospital if something suddenly goes wrong a home birth is incredibly risky. Would whatever money Josh made from this decision be worth anything if something happened to his wife and/or child? If you aren't ready to put the health and safety of your family above financial gain then you aren't ready to have a family.
Hopefully someone in the Duggar camp remembers that the whole Golden Calf thing didn't work out so well for the Israelis in the Bible.

Anonymous said...

Watching a Duggar TV show. 2:16 Eastern. Discover Health. It is about how Josh and Anna took classes in the Bradley Method. ("Active participation by the husband.")

Anonymous said...

People are preachy against the Duggars because the Duggars are preachy regarding their faith and how evil and threatening the outside world is. It's funny, but the outside world is evil until they need something or need to make money, then suddenly it's as if those words were never said.

I agree that the home birth appeared to be last minute. The whole thing seemed odd. Doctors are either in a practice with another doctor in the practice available to cover, and if solo; they are covered by another doctor either on hospital staff or on call. The whole "doctor not being in town" thing seem contrived. Maternal mortality rates were over 50% in the 1800s. While I 100% support home births, I support them when there is planning and trained professionals present. I recognize that modern birthing in the hospital has several significant issues, but again I saw Josh allowing his ego to make decisions. I find him and his father arrogant and offputting.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said: Why are people so preachy against the Duggars?

-----

Because the Duggars love to "preach" their unique brand of religion and lifestyle to the millions of people watching their show.

"Do as I say, not as I do" is the first thing that comes to my mind when the Duggars speak.

Anonymous said...

A husband delivering his first child? What's wrong with that? Why would anyone place a sexual meaning to that, as if they were having sex on TV?

Why are people so preachy against the Duggars?
_______________

Why are the Duggars so preachy against the outside world?
I also don't understand how it is so difficult to understand that if they didn't adhere to such dramatic extremes in claiming to be so modest, people wouldn't be so preachy. But you can't tell people that pants are wrong on women, and then show something so obviously intimate with camermen, sound techs, light techs, and who knows who else standing around watching. I wear bathing suits to the beach, but you'd never in a million years catch me spread eagle with my hubby between my knees on national tv. It has nothing to do with sexualizing birth, it is simply not something a truly modest woman would allow.
Also, its been made clear that no one is upset Josh helped birth his baby. No one has once said he shouldn't have been there doing it. He was in the exact spot he should have been. But the cameraman, or woman should not have been filming it.

Anonymous said...

I wear bathing suits to the beach, but you'd never in a million years catch me spread eagle with my hubby between my knees on national tv.

You are laying out in the middle of the beach wearing what amounts to what less than your underwear in front of any man that walks by and you want to attack Anna because we saw the top of her knees when her baby was born?

Anonymous said...

Because the Duggars love to "preach" their unique brand of religion and lifestyle to the millions of people watching their show.

No one forces you to watch the Duggars talk about what they think is RIGHT FOR THEM. Why does it offend you so much about whatever it is that they have chosen for their family? They don't force it on anyone else.

Anonymous said...

*******the outside world is evil**************

Yeah, certain aspects of it are. So?

Cyn said...

Also, its been made clear that no one is upset Josh helped birth his baby. No one has once said he shouldn't have been there doing it. He was in the exact spot he should have been. But the cameraman, or woman should not have been filming it.

***********************************

Actually if you scan back through these posts Josh's position WAS an issue. And was used several times to 'explain why it was inappropriate for TV'

SuzanneDeAZ said...

Just because a person has standards that may differ from the norm does not make them "preachy or self righteous", it just means they are different. I never see this family as preachy.

Yes, they may talk about why they choose to wear what they do or how they spend their money as people ask them questions. That is sharing not preaching.

If someone thinks they are self righteous is is because they are under conviction? I never feel they are self righteous. And NO I do not follow most of their lifestyle choices.

Cyn said...

I agree that the home birth appeared to be last minute.

********************************
I think your right... it APPEARED. Last month of my pregnancy I knew where by doc was (I hated his back ups) and when he was going to be at the hospital. Also that last month you go weekly to Doc appointments so they knew there was at least the possibility the "main" doc was going to be out of town. That Doc would have talked to them about what to do if she (the doc) was out of town.

On the first visit to the bates house (when they went to start the build) the Bates mother was talking about home births, Anna was talking about how the older girls were taking classes for helping in child birth... I think this was a POSSIBILITY at least in the back of their minds.

AS to having a professional there as another poster was asking about... The lady that taught the Bradley Classes was there and I believe she is either a doula or a midwife.

Speaking of which what are the ODDS she would just be hanging around the house and would go "sure I'll come deliver your baby... on national TV"... (where I'll show the world how I'll participate in a half thought out plan. Great for business wouldn't you think?)

I think the randomness was staged to an extent. (I don't think they staged the timing)
**********************************

BUT in order to get that shot - there had to be a camera man there (or a camera woman), not to mention producers, sound techs, etc.....That, for me, is where the hypocrisy comes in.

Only one that needed to be in that room to "get that shot" would have been one camera person and I doubt HE saw anything either simply BECAUSE of the shot angle. We see her body covered in towels (in the bed), then we see baby over the same green towels.

What I did see though was a CALM mother having a fairly easy (if birth can be said to be easy). The encouragement was that when you actually prepare for a birth the location is secondary. Being calm and feeling in control because you know what is happening. She was healthy, baby was healthy and I'm quite sure the hospital was notified if something went wrong IF NOTHING ELSE by the doula.

Anonymous said...

Sooooo.....

Anna can't wear a bathing suit but she give birth on tv? (with or without her knees showing..get past that)

Why would one want to show such a private moment on tv?

Yes it's preachy to talk about modesty and then show the birth on national tv, yes all we saw was her knees but it obvious what was going on. Who would do that to their wife? How did the camera crew happen to be there? Were they visiting the Jr Duggars and Anna happen to go into labor? SOMEBODY FROM THAT FAMILY CALLED THEM!!! Think about that...Anna goes into labor and the first thought in Josh's mind is to call the camera crew?

Anonymous said...

Actually if you scan back through these posts Josh's position WAS an issue. And was used several times to 'explain why it was inappropriate for TV'
_______

Exactly. His position IS an issue BECAUSE it was on tv. What part of this is so hard to understand? So, again I say, and try to explain. No one has said he should NOT have been there. They are saying the CAMERA should not have been there. Is this a modest woman or not. My mother had six kids. She would have taken poison before letting anyone see her in that position besides my dad and the doctor or nurses. She was so modest she wouldn't let us see her in her PJ's. She ALWAYS wore a robe. I never ever in a million years saw that women not fully clothed. I think I would have died if I did. Anna is not modest.

Anonymous said...

You are laying out in the middle of the beach wearing what amounts to what less than your underwear in front of any man that walks by and you want to attack Anna because we saw the top of her knees when her baby was born?
---------
See, you are making an assumption. Not all bathing suits are string bikinis. I wear a one piece suit and it has an attached, short skirt. After-all I am 50 years old.
My kids build sandcastles and we sit in the surf. We have picnics and enjoy looking for shells. My girls wear one piece suits too as they are 11 and 14. More times than not I'm wearing a cover up because I'm fairskinned. Now to answer your question. Am I naked from the waiste down with my legs spread wide open with my husband looking in and everyone else who walks by. NOPE. Would I do that on a public beach. NOPE. Would I do that on public televsion, NOPE again.
The Duggars are preachy. They say they are one thing and do another. It's laughable. And by the way, I am a Christian. But, sometimes with people like the Duggars proclaiming that too, I want to call myself something like a Jesusite.

Anonymous said...

No one forces you to watch the Duggars talk about what they think is RIGHT FOR THEM.
------
I'm sorry I have to laugh at this. Isn't this what porn stars and people like Howard Stern say about freedom of speech? If you don't like it turn it off. How about Michelle going to a meeting and denying people the right to buy beer? Maybe some people, (I don't drink) but maybe there are people who want too. That is their right.
The Duggars are trying to come across as having all the answers and we are all wrong. It's sickening.

Enough with the Multiples said...

re: As for the birth, that worried me because so much could have gone wrong. In general I favor home births or birthing centers for low risk women, so I don't object on principal. The problem is that such a decision is not supposed to be made at the last minute! I could be wrong but the way they portrayed it on the show made it seem that Anna was going to go to the hospital but her doctor was out of town and for unknown reasons they hadn't considered what they would do if she went into labor early and so suddenly decided on a home birth. I have to wonder if the decision was made for filming purposes and if so then that is simply disgusting. I don't care how much TLC was willing to pay to film the birth, without a properly trained and supplied midwife in attendance and a planed way to quickly transfer mother and child to a hospital if something suddenly goes wrong a home birth is incredibly risky. Would whatever money Josh made from this decision be worth anything if something happened to his wife and/or child?
_________________________

I too thought the decision to home birth seemed to come out of nowhere and have hidden purposes behind it. I hope someday one of the camera men or the producers write a tell-all book so that we can find out the answers to these and other questions.

It seems odd that in all the Dr. Sarver visits we saw, there was no mention of them considering a home birth and even Jim Bob seemed like he was hearing it for the first time when Josh mentioned it on the phone.

I suspect that finances played a big role in the matter--a mix of concerns about the hospital bill and the dollar signs that Josh saw TLC flashing before him.

While I know some women think they are wonderful, I, for one, do not think they are a good idea at all. They are far to risky and dangerous. Even in perfectly healthy young mothers, anything can go wrong at a moments notice--baby's heart suddenly drops, mother's blood pressure rises, etc. Whether you are 5 minutes or 35 minutes away from the hospital, it could still be too late. It's a lot safer to be feet away from the operating room if an emergency c-section is needed or any other complications that require more advanced medical procedures than can be performed at home. Not to mention the around the clock motitoring that both mother and baby recieve in the first 24 hours after birth while in the hospital.
I thought it was concerning that when we saw Mackenzyie's first doctor appt. it was a week or two later. That's fine for a baby born in the hospital that has already been checked out but was there a trained professional that came to the house to check Mackenzyie's vitals after birth? Was she checked for jaundice, which is very common in newborns? What about all the genetic tests that hospitals run on newborns--tests that have saved babies lives because they were caught. And when did Anna get an exam? Did she wait for her 6 week check up or did she see Dr. Sarver sooner to make sure that she was healing properly from the delivery?

Jane in California said...

"Doctors are either in a practice with another doctor in the practice available to cover, and if solo; they are covered by another doctor either on hospital staff or on call. The whole "doctor not being in town" thing seem contrived."

***

Bingo! Any reputable OB/Gyn has back up! Especially if they have to go out of town. It is inconceivable (or negligent) for a doctor to be unavailable to his or her patients without a provision for back up care, especially if your practice also includes prenatal care through birth and afterward. That had to have been contrived. So that tells me that the Duggars (or Josh in this case) is complicit in leading viewers to believe something that is untrue.

And that's the problem with reality tv, and most especially when a supposedly devoutly Christian family engages in reality tv. They set aside some of their moral beliefs in the name of "creating drama" or "doing a good show." The whole point about supposedly having such strong moral beliefs is that you don't live by them at your convenience, you live by them all the time.

Ollie said...

AS to having a professional there as another poster was asking about... The lady that taught the Bradley Classes was there and I believe she is either a doula or a midwife.
****************************************************
The only person that was shown as being their was the teacher from their Bradley class and Josh referred to her as a doula, not a midwife, so I assume that's what she was. A doula, according to Wikipedia, is "an assistant who provides various forms of non-medical and non-midwifery support." In the US they are not required to have a license of any kind, although I would assume the lady on the show probably had some sort of training if she's teaching Bradley classes. I highly doubt, however, that she had the medical training of a midwife or a doctor, and if not she should not be attending to a birth solo.
Even if the birth was properly planned and attended it certainly didn't look that way on TV. When you sell your family for public entertainment image is very important. More than that, why would you want to go on TV and give even the impression that you are bad parents (in the sense that you risk the health and safety of child so you can cash in)?

SuzanneDeAZ said...

Sure the doctor may have someone available for her patients when she is out of town, however maybe Anna and Josh did not want to deal with her replacement, especially if it was a man.

We do not know for sure that TLC presured them into changing or it was their own choice. I think I remember Josh saying that all of the time their were considering a home birth and when their doctor was not available they decided to make the decision at that time to go with plan 2, having a home birth.

Anonymous said...

I don't object to a home birth at all, but a doula is a "coach", not a midwife and the doula is not qualified to deliver a baby. A midwife has 6+ years of schooling in addition to many years of experience. The issue I have is the way the whole birth was portrayed. It's difficult to discern the truth from TV. Perhaps J&A considered a home birth, but the details and magnitude of planning for the home birth were not shown. That may be TLC's doing, who knows?

My concern is that many people seem to look to the Duggars as role models. The way the show is presented is problematic. The medical related subjects are often inaccurate (home birth, birth control, child development) and their brand of Christianity is "unique", to say the least. (I don't find them to be very Christian at all, but that's just me.) While I am sure that most people can exercise their good judgment, not everyone can for various reasons. The home birth was portayed as a fairly simple decision, and it is not. I also agree with the posting regarding follow up care for the baby. They didn't show any of the required after care, such as bili checks, antibiotics to the eyes, a vitamin K injection if needed, rhogham for mom if needed, developmental and reflex assessment and so on. Again, I support home births if that's what a family wants, but the show made light of the situation. There is a reason why childbirth became part of the medical realm. It's bad "journalism" and it gives viewers a false sense of security. However, I don't blame the Duggars; I blame TLC.

JimBob Doesn't Need Hairspray said...

@Anonymous said, "yes all we saw was her knees but it obvious what was going on. Who would do that to their wife?"

------------

I'll answer that one.

Josh would treat his wife that way because he learned how to be a "husband" from watching how JimBob treats Michelle.

After all, JimBob had no problem going on national television and saying that Michelle had "emotional baggage" from dating a few boys before him.

After all, JimBob had no problem announcing in Dr. Sarver's office that Josie was conceived on Father's Day.

JimBob Duggar is about the last person I'd emulate. His respect for his wife's privacy is zero.
Consequently, Josh's respect for Anna is zero also. It was Josh on the phone saying to JimBob "blah blah blah...we're thinking about a home birth" "Dr. Sarver is out of town"........Anna just stood there and basically said nothing. Do you really think Anna had any say-so in the matter? Like she'd ever really say her true opinion to Josh? No way.

Klass said...

Where do the girls say that they follow Michelle's menstrual cycle? So many posts keep on referencing it, but I don't recall it being said.

Jane in California said...

SuzanneDeAZ said...

Sure the doctor may have someone available for her patients when she is out of town, however maybe Anna and Josh did not want to deal with her replacement, especially if it was a man.
* * *

Then I seriously question their fitness as parents. You do not blithely risk possible serious complications during childbirth because you did not have a back up female OB/Gyn. Come on - are we to believe there is only one female Ob/Gyn in the entire area? What I'm saying is if you have such severe beliefs, then it is your responsibility as an expectant mother to have a female Ob/Gyn as primary, and a second female Ob/Gyn as back up. Foolish and possibly negligent not to.

I am far from perfect. Before I became pregnant, I was a smoker. I drank socially. I was a spendthrift.

The moment I learned I was pregnant, all that changed. There was nothing more important to me than doing the right thing for my unborn child. I stopped smoking cold turkey, didn't touch alcohol, even stopped having my morning coffee. I ate right, walked every day. I started saving money.

Don't think I'm talking myself up. It was the easiest thing in the world. I had the greatest motivator -- my unborn child. I would never knowingly risk my child's health or well being. My modesty could and would have been just as easily set aside when the time came -- all that mattered to me was having a healthy child. That should have been all that mattered to Josh and Anna as well.

Furthermore, the argument that they went with a home birth rather than use the services of a male OB/Gyn fall rather short when you realize that the whole thing was filmed for a viewing audience. How do they reconcile the fact that a camera crew was present, and the birth was to be shown on national tv, with their professed view that a doctor specifically trained to help safely deliver babies could not attend simply because he was male?

It's more of the logic that isn't logical, and in this case, led them (or most likely Josh) to follow a potentially dangerous choice. They got lucky that nothing bad happened, that's all. But as this youngest Duggar baby shows, sometimes serious things happen during pregnancy - you should always err on the side of caution when your precious baby's life is involved.

Let's hope Josh and Anna, now that the baby is here, will make responsible decisions based on what's best for the child, not on some twisted logic that says to take a risk sometimes in the name of so-called modesty.

Jane in California said...

Ollie said:
The only person that was shown as being their was the teacher from their Bradley class and Josh referred to her as a doula, not a midwife, so I assume that's what she was. A doula, according to Wikipedia, is "an assistant who provides various forms of non-medical and non-midwifery support."

* * *

I had a doula as well during my pregnancy. She was a very nice young woman, and her role was to be there to comfort me if needed, to ease the process, offer her experience as having attended many births before. She was in no way there to help in the actual delivery process, nor was she a medical professional. She didn't have a nursing degree, or any type of medical assistant certification.

If a doula was the closest they had to a medical professional, I'm even more shocked than I was to begin with. Foolishness to risk your baby's life this way.

This phrase comes to mind: Pride goeth before a fall.

Deanna said...

When one does a home birth, usually (or hopefully, ALWAYS) there should be a plan! That means, the midwife had been part of the plan all along, that the birthing mother has been to prenatal visits with the midwife, etc. The midwife has to know the mother, her wishes and desires, etc.

One doesn't decide willy nilly at the 11th hour, 'Oh, I think we'll do a homebirth", without a midwife or medical professional! That is called 'freebirthing', and Josh is incredibly lucky that nothing awful happened to his wife or baby because of his utter carelessness and greed.

And if Dr. Sarver had a male partner, the Duggars would have known that all along. Anna knew that she would have her baby soon. Doctors that are going on vacation let their patients near due dates know that they might not be there, and what the contingency plan is. There is NO WAY that this was some giant surprise to Josh and Anna.

And delivering the way they did, with a good result, was just lucky. I hope that they don't try that again, and please, don't televise it either.

Anonymous said...

If it were me, and the choice was between the life, health, and safety of my wife and child vs. my discomfort at having a male doctor, I would choose my wife and child every time. Hands down, no question. A few moments of "gosh this is awkward" versus losing them forever? No way, Jose.

But that's just me... I'm just stating my humble opinion here, but in no way, shape, or form would I EVER risk anything in the slightest just because I was a bit embarrassed about having a male doctor.

Celestie said...

however maybe Anna and Josh did not want to deal with her replacement, especially if it was a man.


This one really cracked me up. A whole camera crew and TV viewers are ok, but a male doctor, not so much?

Also, I did not see a calm mother to be. I saw a petrified young woman trying to get through this birthing process without making a fuss, so it would look good for viewers.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

In the case of Anna and Josh choosing to have a home birth because their doctor was out of town and perhaps they prefer a woman doctor does not mean the baby was endangered for the home birth. Since there was no forseeable complications it was not a matter of which is safer as for most babies a home birth is very safe. So what is wrong with a "choice" to have a home birth rather than go to the hospital?

Anne said...

Isn't home birth what ATI/Gothard followers are recommended to have? I was actually surprised to see Anna visit Dr. Sarver since I thought the only reason Michelle was "allowed" to see a Dr. and not do homebirth was because Michelle had risk factors and previous c-sections. My feeling was they had Anna see Dr. Sarver for the cameras? Playing up the old Grandma and Daughter in Law going to the Dr. together. Makes them seem more mainstream.
I think the whole Josh calling his dad and praying about the homebirth was for the cameras too. I really think the goal from the begining was having a homebirth. If Anna was healthly and Josh and Anna really believe what ATI/Gothard teach about homebirth and the evils of hospitals why would they not choose the homebirth. I wish they would have been upfront about it. Like with the courting and wedding first kiss. It could have been a chance for them to share their beliefs about homebirth. Isn't that the "real" reason the Duggars say they do the show, to share their different beliefs?

Enough with the Multiples said...

Re: Klass said...
Where do the girls say that they follow Michelle's menstrual cycle? So many posts keep on referencing it, but I don't recall it being said.
----------------------------
In one of the episodes where Michelle is announcing the pregnancy of Jordan, she says she is surprised the older girls haven't figured out she is pregnant cause they watch the calendar or something to that extent. Don't remember her exact wording but she makes clear that they are aware of her cycle.

Midwest Mom said...

SusanneDeAZ: "So what is wrong with a "choice" to have a home birth rather than go to the hospital?"

****

Absolutely nothing, and in the case of Josh & Anna, it had the added benefit of being worth a nice $$$ check from TLC after her "choice" was aired on national television.

Anonymous said...

I asked this last night but no one seems to have noticed so...How did the camera crew happen to be there? Somebody had to call them right? They don't just magically appear... they surely can't schedule a home delivery right?

That is what I find distressing... is that they were called. Yes Anna was covered up but we knew what was going on. (Please don't miss the point here) There is NOTHING sexual about giving birth but you can not be modest while you are doing right? So for example what's the difference in that and having Josh and Anna miked up during their wedding night (no they were not!) We couldn't see anything, but we knew what was going on and you can't be modest while your doing it.

I have never claimed to be modest. I wear shorts and one piece bathing suit with a pair of shorts (I don't anyone to see my fat roll lol) There are been several times when my husband wanted to go to the gyn with me and I refused because I was to embarrassed by what just happened to me.

Oscar's Momma
I hope this explains the problems to some.

Deanna said...

Nothing necessarily wrong with the "choice" to have a home birth, if you have made plans, thought things through and acted like a responsible soon-to-be-parent.

Unfortunately, Josh did none of the above. There was no medical professional there, no one to in any way monitor Anna's progression, or to know if anything horrible was happening (drop in baby's heart rate, etc). It is so easy for a seemingly normal labor to go awry and turn into an emergency. A midwife would have precautions set. Josh would have absolutely no way of knowing how anything was going, and if there was an emergency. He is not a medical professional, and nor is a doula.

It just bothers me that anyone would be so cavalier about birth, particularly a family that claims to value life so much.

Marybeth said...

In regards to Josh and Anna having a homebirth, I take exception to the comment that they had the baby at home merely because TLC was there and it "made good television." If you really watched the episode, and I mean really watched...they prayed, and prayed about what they needed to do and what they should do--now maybe that's not something you would do in your life when you would have a baby, but that's what they felt was important for them, so that's what they did, because that's what felt comfortable for them. Remember, their doctor wasn't available--that rattles a woman in labour to no end--and a woman of faith, the kind of faith Anna has, prayer is her rock. I doubt seriously that those cameras even caught her attention.

Personally, I am an Chassidic Jew and I too would have prayed as I have never prayed before, and if the message I received was to stay at home, well that's what I would have done. Obviously, they did what G-d had planned, because everything turned out perfectly well. Telling us what "could" have happened during a home birth without a midwife really isn't necessary---they "could" have gotten into a car accident on the way to the hospital, now couldn't they? G-d works in mysterious ways and those of us with faith have faith for a reason....because it's faith---we believe that everything will turn out all right.

Women have been having healthy babies without hospitals for thousands of years--and are still having healthy babies without hospitals--so just because you think they coulda shoulda woulda...don't rain down on their faith. G-d provides to those who believe and it has nothing to do with the TLC netowork.

Sharla said...

Once again the discussion of the Duggars' religious beliefs has turned into a nasty argument. Most of that isn't on the blog as it was not let through. So please find some other aspect of the Duggars to discuss for awhile. Thank you!

Cyn said...

The lady that was the "doula" has either a husband OR a male relative that runs the medical clinic the Classes were held in. (last names are the same)

The cord was not tied off with string then cut with a pair of scissors... The baby was weighed... That's only what we SAW. Out of an hour episode they spent all of 5-6 min on the birth, and part of that on trying to get Michelle and one of the girls there.

We do NOT know the baby wasn't tested, given an APGAR rating, drops in the eyes and all the rest. What we do know is it wasn't shown in the final cut.

Midwest Mom said...

I was watching Discovery Health channel last night and a promo commercial was aired for 18 Kids & Counting (they show re-runs of the Duggar episodes previously aired on TLC).

I found it interesting that the voiceover/announcer said something along the lines of "tag along with the Duggars AND COUSIN AMY as they..." etc etc. And there was Amy's face right up there in the camera.

What next? A new show entitled "Cousin Amy Duggar looks for a husband". ?

I never understood what Amy adds to the show, except for the line spoken by little Josiah in the interview chair "We STILL like Cousin Amy".

Does this young lady go to college/voc. school, does she have a job or volunteer in her community? She's over 20 years old, so I was wondering just what is her focus on life?

Then my thoughts turned to the fact that maybe Uncle JimBob Duggar got her the gig on TLC to throw some cash her way. Personally, I don't see that she adds that much to the show.

Ohio Buckeye said...

While channel surfing, caught a few minutes of an ad for an upcoming episode, showing Ms. D in the hospital, explaining 'they think it may be pre-eclampsia...'.

The last thing a pre-eclamptic patient needs is more stress, and it's hard to imagine that the intrusion of the filming crew would not add to the already-high stress level at that point.

I have to wonder which really took precedence at that moment, the wellbeing of the two patients (mom and baby) or getting a high drama episode 'in the can'?

Virginia said...

I saw a preview last night for a Duggars Special Delivery, it looks like TLC was there the whole time. Maybe that's why not much has been said publicly, they want to wait and air it. It's all about the ratings.

CappuccinoLife said...

"Out of an hour episode they spent all of 5-6 min on the birth, and part of that on trying to get Michelle and one of the girls there."

Good point, Cyn. Going by the clock in the house, there were many hours of labor and how many minutes actually shown? There's a lot of judgement being made on the basis of those few minutes.

BioEngr said...

Regarding the home birth of Anna's baby, I think a lot of it had to do with money. Josh has mentioned on the show that they're hoping the car lot sales pick up and since their doctor wasn't there anyway, it probably seemed like a good way to save money on the hospital bills.
I don't see anything wrong with it, they took the baby to the doctor soon after, I just hope it was Anna's decision and not Josh's.

Ohio Buckeye said...

Re: of disapproving this show and its ever-growing list of actors (19 and counting...),

The same rule applies to the Duggars as to the Gosselins as to the little people: if you are willing to sell your privacy and put your lifestyle, whatever it may be, out there and claim it is your 'reality,' then you and your chosen lifestyle are fair game for discussion and criticism.

The Duggars do not get a pass on this, just because their particular chosen lifestyle is supposedly a 'Christian' one.

One rule applies to all in this situation: if you can't stand the heat (of dissection, discussion, and disapproval), stay out of the kitchen (turn off the TLC cameras).

NurseNancy said...

I quit watching the show after they had the home birth on. In my humble opinion and many other medical professional, the birth of a child is not entertainment and should not be used as such. It is a private event between the two people who created the life not entire world.
Regarding them not releasing any information regarding Josie’s condition, don’t give me the line that they are too busy taking caring of her.. That is BS, Jichelle attended a liquor control board meeting and they were at Right to Life event. At the present time there is very little they can do, NyICU personnel are doing every thing. So the only thing that I can say, is that they have sold their life and soul to TLC. That is sad and wrong.

Ollie said...

Re; Cousin Amy

Cousin Amy is an aspiring country singer, I always got the impression that she was mainly on the show to promote herself. If you go to her singing website it even says "as featured on 18 kids and Counting."

Celestie said...

I think Cousin Amy adds a little spice. Even though she appears to be a religious person, she hasn't taken it to the extreme behaviors like the JimBob Duggars. She wears jeans, goes out on dates and has an opinion. It doesn't appear she is under the JimBob control.

Celestie said...

Question: Since Grandpa Duggar was the patriarch of the family, why was he not the head of the family? I felt so sorry for him, and Grandma Duggar living in that cramped, little junk filled room, while having his last days served up for the TV audience. Death deserves the same dignity as birth. Being with his family is fine, if that is what he chose, but I doubt anyone would chose to be drug out of his room on his last days on earth, for the world to view. I found JB's explanation to one of the boys about Grandpa's body and spirit, sort of lame. Like much of what he says, it comes out blah, blah, blah with no substance.

I would like to send Grandma on a cruise, (or someplace) alone or with a friend, so she could mourn for her husband without attending to family duties. Seems she will spend the rest of her days as an unpaid baby-sitter. I'm sure there are Christian cruises,

Anonymous said...

Regarding the discussion about cousin Amy... I wish people would make an effort to give her a chance or find things out about her before criticizing her. I'm friends with her on Facebook. She's 23, not 20, and she is a WONDERFUL young lady and loves the LORD. Half of what she posts is about her relationship with God. I just wish people wouldn't judge her when the only thing they have to base their opinions on are contrasting her with the rest of the Duggars. Also, she goes by Amy Jordyn for her singing career, which is her new last name since her parents got married. Her birth parents did not marry until Amy was 19, so she was born with the last name Dugger. They are married now, and her dad's last name is Jordyn.

jo said...

Thanks the info on Amy. I thought she was using Duggar as her professional name to kind of get a heads up. It is nice to hear good things about her.

roddma said...

Annonymous on 1/13 9:05 I know which ghost show you are about. I think much reality TV has turned into one big ad used to promote businesses and product placments like we see with the Duggars. It isnt all their fault but mostly the fault of TLC. We don't know how much reality is staged for ratings either.

Anonymous said...

There is so much cut out of these episodes... they take a whole day trip to some activity and condense it to 23 minutes of run time. I would love to see a "director's cut" of the Duggars. I feel like we are seeing exactly what they want us to see and not the real family life.

Anonymous said...

I knew it! I didn't see the promo for the Special Delivery but as I stated in my other post I had a feeling that was why we hadn't heard any updates. IMO, I think this is disgraceful and I am so disappointed in the Duggars. How could they not let their fans know how Josie is doing and keep it all for a TLC special? This really is the lowest of the low. I don't even know if I want to watch them anymore. Everythign will seem so phoney now.

Celestie said...

You don't think watching all those little boys bouncing off the walls is pretty much what there life is? I happen to think they are cute and fairly natural. Only the girls seem stifled.

Celestie said...

Speaking of trips. Did anyone notice on the little train ride, that Michelle and JimBob were huddled in the first car together, while one of the little girls was unaccompanied in the last car. Safety?

Kat said...

FYI - Unless Amy officially changed her last name, "Jordyn" would only be a stage name, not her "new last name." Since she was legally named Amy Duggar on her birth certificate, her name doesn't change just because her parents got married.

Anonymous said...

Kat - I was assuming that she legally changed her last name, since that's what I've heard, but maybe not. Either way, she uses Jordyn for her stage name but was born Duggar. Does it really matter? I'm married and know the legal process of changing a name. I didn't think her name automatically changed... just that now that her parents are married, she also uses Jordyn. Big deal

Anonymous said...

I know Amy, and I don't see why it matters whether or not she legally changed her last name to Jordyn. The question someone asked earlier, which I think the last poster was trying to answer, was why she was born with the last name Duggar.

Cyn said...

When her parents got married the dad 'adopted' Amy... They talk about it in the episode with the part at the aunts house.

PerfectParents said...

Speaking of trips. Did anyone notice on the little train ride, that Michelle and JimBob were huddled in the first car together, while one of the little girls was unaccompanied in the last car. Safety?

1/19/2010 11:29 AM
8888888888888888888888888888888
For Real??!!??
Gag.
And what a comment on their "parenting." Oh and the word "parenting" should ALWAYS be in quotes, or using an asterisk, when it comes to the Duggars.
Hey J.B. and Jichelle, gotta work on #20, right??
Grow up.

Cyn said...

Re Home birth:

I was looking for something else and came across the article... Some times we only see what TLC wants us to see =

Mackynzie was born at the home of her parents, Joshua and Anna, with a midwife and doula attending the birth. "Josh was excited to participate in the birth as well," says a family friend. "They are both so happy."

From the people magazine article = http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20311322,00.html

Anonymous said...

Cyn said...

Re Home birth:

I was looking for something else and came across the article... Some times we only see what TLC wants us to see =

-----------------------------------
Why did we even need to see it at all? Why was TLC EVEN there? How did they know to be there?

It was great that a midwife and a doula were there, they should have been. It was awesome that Josh was able to catch the baby.

But it is sad that the family sold out so much that they called the film crew. (I bet that wouldn't have happened if they decided to go to the hospital)

Anonymous said...

Josh was excited to participate in the birth as well," says a family friend. "They are both so happy." From the people magazine article = http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20311322,00

===========

Well OF COURSE that's what a family friend is going to say.

Even if Anna was spitting mad about being forced into a home birth, it's not like the "family friend" is going to spill the beans to People Magazine !

reality bites said...

They mentioned the doula on the show, but never mentioned a midwife. How come? Wouldn't that be one of the first things they'd have said. "We have a doula AND a midwife." Kind of an important person to leave out of the show. Also if it was a last minute decision, because they said that their doctor was out of town, everything sure was prepped. Why don't they admit they planned a homebirth all along.

Anonymous said...

One could only see Josh, Michelle, Jill and the doula at Anna's birth. A midwife would have to be there coaching and helping deliver the baby. No midwife was anywhere to be seen.

So, it doesn't matter what People mag says---when you watch the footage of the show (which has been shown repeatedly) you can see no midwife. I don't believe one was there.

Cyn said...

Anonymous has left a new comment on the post "Free Discussion January 2010 Part Two":

One could only see Josh, Michelle, Jill and the doula at Anna's birth. A midwife would have to be there coaching and helping deliver the baby. No midwife was anywhere to be seen.

So, it doesn't matter what People mag says---when you watch the footage of the show (which has been shown repeatedly) you can see no midwife. I don't believe one was there.

**********************************
According to the clock it was over a 12 hour birthing process of which we say less than 6 min of film.

In that 6 min of film a good part of it was getting Michelle and one of the girls there. Maybe the midwife didn't want to be filmed.

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 258   Newer› Newest»