Free Discussion February 2011

Please use this for Duggar sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, or personal stories. Thank you!

90 comments:

Jean Chasseur said...

After watching a rerun of the Duggars' visit to the ITA conference I poked around the website and saw a large ad for Erin Bates' new CD release on the main page. I knew she was a good musician but didn't know she had this in the works. Here's the link from that page:
http://store.iblp.org/products/CMAM/

Jean Chausser said...

Oh my, the link of Erin's CD was fine, samples of her music beautiful ... but then I saw this.

A CD entitled, and I kid you not, "How to Support a Family of 19 Without a Salary".
http://store.iblp.org/products/DC10BA/

I really like the Bates and all, but after seeing this I am gobsmacked. Why would anyone want to try to do this? Where is the honor and pride of the "family patriarch?"
Yikes.

Jen said...

A CD entitled, and I kid you not, "How to Support a Family of 19 Without a Salary".
http://store.iblp.org/products/DC10BA/

I really like the Bates and all, but after seeing this I am gobsmacked. Why would anyone want to try to do this? Where is the honor and pride of the "family patriarch?"
Yikes.
----------------------------------
Since he is self employed he has no steady source of income like a salary would provide - not no income. I personally think that is what he means by no salary.

Lisa said...

Here is a recent video of Josh towing people out after getting stuck in the snow.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/fayetteville-khbs-18191180/trucking-along-with-eldest-duggar-son-24063985

Aquamarine2000 said...

Can anyone tell me the date (you don't have to be too specific) of when Josh and John-David saved the little girl from the car accident????? Please????

Lisa said...

Can anyone tell me the date (you don't have to be too specific) of when Josh and John-David saved the little girl from the car accident????? Please????

-----------------------------------
That happened beginning of last Feburary 2010.

Anonymous said...

A CD entitled, and I kid you not, "How to Support a Family of 19 Without a Salary".
http://store.iblp.org/products/DC10BA/


it was a prank. I emailed them an asked about this cd, and a lady replied that apparently someone thought it would be funny/sprankster to post something like that by erin bates cd coming out release. It was a hacker who did hack into the site and post it. and on and on..

Anonymous said...

http://news.yahoo.com/video/fayetteville-khbs-18191180/trucking-along-with-eldest-duggar-son-24063985


reply,

I am from the north texas area, north dallas and Josh is Correct on everything he said. As matter of fact, my mom brought those excate words up today, as we passed idiots who thought that their truck could go on this and this road, only it couldnt, in 20 miles we passed 44 car/trucks/suvs. and josh is also right on that dont stop on you breaks.


I bet Josh is having to us the Hummer, because JohnD is really busy using the towing out all people. I mean really busy. As are all the towing people here.

So they are working hard for their money today. cuz its cold and wet, and muddy. Not to mention dangerous

Anonymous said...

didi see anyone post this, it was a new radar online thing


http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/01/exclusive-interview-jim-bob-duggar-defends-gun-photo-its-our-constitutional-right

Anonymous said...

Hi


Here is MSNBC report on Josh and John Saving the the six year old,

it happened on the 3rd, and three cars came into this car lot in a wreck, josh called 911, and john kept the girl alive...here is a video

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/35217293/ns/today-today_people/

Tammy C said...

Funny you should ask about the Josh and the car accident incident.It was last year at this time that it occurred.

Cyn said...

Do the roads get nasty out there in February or something?

Anonymous said...

Things are about to get really interesting: the Bateses just announced #19 is under construction. (ugh)

Will Michelle start to panic and get herself on the hormone boosters like Kelly Bates has?

Anonymous said...

My stars it's up on their blog. It sounds like they announced as soon as the test turned. Is Kelly 44? Why don't they wait as long as they can to announce? This will surely only spur the Duggars on to trying harder for that magical 20.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if Michelle has already made an appointment to see if she can get supplemental progesterone.

Jen said...

A CD entitled, and I kid you not, "How to Support a Family of 19 Without a Salary".
http://store.iblp.org/products/DC10BA/


it was a prank. I emailed them an asked about this cd, and a lady replied that apparently someone thought it would be funny/sprankster to post something like that by erin bates cd coming out release. It was a hacker who did hack into the site and post it. and on and on..

---------------------------------
If it is a prank then why does the sight say that the DVD is still for sale?

Anonymous said...

The Duggars must be fuming. What if the Bateses have twins? No time like the present to get that number 20 bun in the oven. And before that happens, those sister-moms better make a run for it while the goin' is good.

Anonymous said...

"I wonder if Michelle has already made an appointment to see if she can get supplemental progesterone."
=========
Can you buy that used and save the difference?

Anonymous said...

Please explain the 'hormone boosters' allegedly being used by the Bates...... I thought they and the Duggars were all about 'letting god decide'....

Anonymous said...

Can it be long before we can expect this Pregnancy Extravaganza to be carried over in the 2nd generation of these two families?

Gives a whole new dimension to the term, "Battle of the Bulge".

Spare us.

Anonymous said...

Don't these couples have anything ELSE to do?

Read books. Join a book/discussion club even. Board games. Cards. TALK.

Geez, enough already. Talk about 'one trick ponies'...

Anonymous said...

I honestly do not see how a doctor can agree to giving hormone treatments which are meant to promote conception to a woman in her mid forties who already has that many children. Or do people get it on the black market? That is very sad. Can these families not be happy with the plethora of offspring they already made?

Jessica said...

Please explain the 'hormone boosters' allegedly being used by the Bates...... I thought they and the Duggars were all about 'letting god decide'....

***********************

In a recent article (I believe the one that was done by the people from England) they said that Kelly had 2 miscarriages due to low progesterone levels so she's getting progesterone supplements.

ennvee said...

Please explain the 'hormone boosters' allegedly being used by the Bates...... I thought they and the Duggars were all about 'letting god decide'....

==================================

Kelly admitted either on the show or on the Bateses' blog that after she miscarried twice (one was the pregnancy when they were "gifted" with the remodel by Jim Bob and Clark Wilson) that she began progesterone treatments to ensure she wouldn't miscarry. The last two babies are here likely as a result of the treatments.

As far as the Duggars are concerned, I really think that they're just now beginning to purposely "try" for J20. Josie would be around 2, which seems to be the "magic age" for them. In the meantime, I bet both Michelle and JimBob are fuming; having the most kids seems like such a badge of honor with these Gothard/VF people.

Anonymous said...

Just imagine how many progeny in the next generation if each Duggar kid only had half the kids of their parents---it's still 190 grandchildren. And then imagine if those 190 grandkids only had two kids each...

You get the picture. Scary stuff.

Anonymous said...

Re: the hormone therapy...I'm sure Kelly probably sees a doctor who is onboard with the QF philosophy and the risks she is taking health-wise in order to raise an army for God.

Anonymous said...

Maybe 'low progesterone levels' is god's way of saying, "Enough already with the baby making. Please find other activities with which to busy yourselves."

IMO tampering with naturally-occurring hormones (and their inevitable decline with age) is absolutely inconsistent with the whole 'letting god decide' claim.

Pretzel logic.

Anonymous said...

"Just imagine how many progeny in the next generation if each Duggar kid only had half the kids of their parents---it's still 190 grandchildren. And then imagine if those 190 grandkids only had two kids each...

You get the picture. Scary stuff."

*******************************

Agreed: Scary Stuff.

These people (Duggars and Bates) are Quiverful, I don't care how much they try to distance themselves so as to appeal to a broader audience.

The Duggars fail to ENCOURAGE me. Conversely, they scare me.

Anonymous said...

re: The Duggars and Bates being Quiverful:

Quiverful is not PC by TLC stds so the Duggars, though living the QF lifestyle, go along with the ruse to convince viewers they are not.

Two thoughts:

"A rose by any other name...."

and

"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....."

Anonymous said...

Re:progesterone,it can be bought OTC in every state except CA,in the form of a topical cream or lotion.
Even so,since it's not a narcotic or controlled substance,one can get it or order a 3 month supply for personal use from other countries as well.It's not that difficult to obtain,and is used frequently for perimenopausal women having hormonal issues,even if they don't desire more children.

Anonymous said...

Just imagine how many progeny in the next generation if each Duggar kid only had half the kids of their parents---it's still 190 grandchildren. And then imagine if those 190 grandkids only had two kids each...

You get the picture. Scary stuff.

----------------------------------

Not quite so scary,imo,if you stop to realize that the progenies of this family will likely become more and more liberal in time,given growing up in such a secular country,and the future generations will likely not be as sheltered as this one is.

Anonymous said...

It is really sick that someone who won't use birth control because God's wishes were being considered, would take progesterone to enhance her chances of becoming pregnant and carrying full term. I wouldn't be surprised if Michelle followed suit. I cannot see her letting Kelly Bates out produce the Duggars.

I firmly believe that both these women need extensive therapy as do their husbands. This sort of attention addiction is really getting out of hand. Now that Josie is improving, Michelle will have to find something else to garner on-camera focus.

If Kelly Bates has twins, Jim Bob will be exhausted trying to live up to his end of the bargain

Anonymous said...

Not to mention that most of the Duggar brood, at least as far as I can tell, seem so insulated from the world that nobody besides Josh seems like they'll be meeting anyone to have kids with anytime soon. Jana and John David are older than Josh was when he was married and apparently aren't even courting; Jill is too valuable taking care of the little kids to let go right now even if she was courting, which she isn't, and none of the other kids that are near the right age - Jessa, Jinger and, though this is a stretch, Joseph, are courting either - I believe Michelle has said as much. Since the Gothardite model seems to be to get married and start popping out kids as soon as you're old enough, this is a bad sign as far as the '10 grandchildren each' model is concerned. The more time goes on, the more it seems to me that the majority of the Duggar children will simply linger at their parents' house with only themselves for company unless their parents kick them out, which we know they won't do.

Anonymous said...

"It is really sick that someone who won't use birth control because God's wishes were being considered, would take progesterone to enhance her chances of becoming pregnant and carrying full term. I wouldn't be surprised if Michelle followed suit. I cannot see her letting Kelly Bates out produce the Duggars."
******************

We don't know that Kelly wasn't taking the supplement AFTER she was pregnant in order to stay that way (lots of women have to, especially after previous miscarriages). Disagree with the Duggars on many things, but I don't think we've seen anything on their show, web page or in their book that would embrace using drugs to help God decide when to bless them with children.

Anonymous said...

We've seen in the past two weeks that the kids seem to take things out of the freezer/ fridge at will (ice cream and blueberries). It seems to me that it's almost devolved into a pack mentality with the little kids fending for themselves. We've seen how breakfast seems to be a catch as catch can affair with kids making their own food at what ever hour they get up. (Yes, I know Michelle was making those eggs {with cheese!} recently but I doubt that's a daily occurence.)

I feel like there is very little structure in those kids' lives and that they might benefit greatly by a schedule (Yes, I know they supposedly have one but I'm doubting that's in effect these days.)

The thing about the kids getting into the freezer for food concerns me. My kids are now adults but they knew that you didn't help yourself to food without asking first...and especially not ice cream in the middle of the day. I dunno....

joyruns said...

Anonymous said...
"It is really sick that someone who won't use birth control because God's wishes were being considered, would take progesterone to enhance her chances of becoming pregnant and carrying full term. I wouldn't be surprised if Michelle followed suit. I cannot see her letting Kelly Bates out produce the Duggars."

-----------------------------------

From my experience with progesterone, you don't take it to enhance your chances of becoming pregnant. You take it to help prevent a miscarriage. Since you don't know when you will become pregnant, you can take it before you actually are pregnant.

I don't think it is sick to want to try and prevent a miscarriage.

caanablee said...

"I don't think it is sick to want to try and prevent a miscarriage."

----

I don't, either, for "normal" people. However, the Bates aren't normal. They believe God opens and closes Kelly's womb. For Kelly to even attempt to sustain a pregnancy, using modern medicine, is going against God's will.

If you are Quiverful, and you are unable to have a child on your own, from conception until the child is viable outside the womb, that is God's message that you have received all the Gifts he is going to bestow. Kelly is stealing Gifts out of God's hands by using modern medicine to sustain her pregnancies.

joyruns said...

"For Kelly to even attempt to sustain a pregnancy, using modern medicine, is going against God's will."

----------------------------

Getting pregnant and sustaining a pregnancy are two different things. From my understanding, "Quiverfull" has to do with getting pregnant, not sustaining a pregnancy. Once a child is conceived, a quiverfull believer is not restricted in using modern medicine to help that child survive, in or out of the womb.

Allison said...

According to the TLC schedule, the next 2 weeks only have one new episode, with the 10:30 episode being a rerun. Just an FYI.

Anonymous said...

Wow just checked the Bates' website and Kelly is indeed pregnant again. Very soon. Her last two are stil very young.Callie is a year old and Judson is only a few months old. I know there is no birth control being used but gosh. I really like both the Duggars and the Bates but goodness, it's got to stop at some point.

Anonymous said...

It's like they're in some race to pop out as many kids as humanly possible before "the womb closes". I bet these two will be 50 and still having kids, God willing.

Allison said...

I get that we are all either in awe or in disgust that these women have had a lot of babies, but seriously? It won't stop until they go through menopause. End of story. And I don't think they are in any kind of race. I think they just are both very fertile women. I've done some research on other women who don't use BC and clearly, there are big differences in the amount of children a family has off birth control. So... it isn't a race because I don't think either woman is going out of their way to have more children. As they've said, they're just not using birth control. And pregnancies close together are what happen when you do that.

If anything, I think Kelly is "winning" even though she's had less kids, but she's been pregnant more. Michelle "cheated" because she has 2 sets of twins. Michelle has only been pregnant a total of 17 times, whereas Kelly is on her 19th pregnancy.

mythoughtis said...

actually, I think they DO go out of their way to conceive. They follow the old testament laws that say no s*x until the 14th day of a womans cycle... which just happens to be the day most women ovulate and are most likely to conceive. Waiting until then also means the sp*rm count is at its highest also, increasing the likelyhood of conception.

Cyn said...

We've seen in the past two weeks that the kids seem to take things out of the freezer/ fridge at will (ice cream and blueberries).


*************************
I've trained my kids that if they are hungry there is the fridge, and there is the snack area have at. The kids learn to eat when they are hungry, and stop when they are full. I was amazed the Duggar kids not only didn't make a mess with them, they actually put them back up where they found them.

I wonder if I can borrow Jill for a few months and get her to train mine to put things back where they go...

Allison said...

They follow the old testament laws that say no s*x until the 14th day of a womans cycle...


--

In what episode do they say this? I know they don't have sex for a certain period of time after birth, but I haven't heard anything about them not having sex until a certain day of the month.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if I can borrow Jill for a few months and get her to train mine to put things back where they go...
------------------------------

I know you're joking, but the poor girl already is worked hard raising up her brothers and sisters. I wouldn't wish her to continue on doing the same with other kids too.

Although given her education, that's about all she's trained to do :(

Anonymous said...

Allison, the duggars wrote in their book that they follow this old testament law. It is not on an episode.

Allison said...

Allison, the duggars wrote in their book that they follow this old testament law. It is not on an episode.

---

OK thanks! I just wanted to know the reference in case I wanted to look it up.

Reality TV Junkie said...

You know what, the Duggar life does sound boring...to us.

Their kids are trained to be happy with what they have, and not to complain. If that's what they're used to, it's their normal. I think "boring" is a very relative term, and most people in the modern world have adopted a different sense of the word than the Duggars, and many other people do. If the girls take care of their siblings, so what? It's what their used to. Everyone is used to a different lifestyle, and you don't miss what you don't know.

Sharla said...

Please remember the topic is the Duggars and not what someone else thinks about the Duggars, the tone of the blog, other people's opinions, etc.

I was in a hurry rushing out the door this morning and let an otherwise fine comment through with one sentence or so that wasn't fully appropriate instead of rejecting the whole comment. Now I'm home and had at least eight comments responding to that one inappropriate sentence. Lesson learned: I can't be lenient or things will take off on a tangent. :)

hipopononymous said...

Cyn: "I've trained my kids that if they are hungry there is the fridge, and there is the snack area have at. The kids learn to eat when they are hungry, and stop when they are full."

-----

That's fine, if your kids don't tend to over-eat. If they do, this is the path to obesity.

Bubbles said...

Haven't finished reaading all the comments yet, but from what I understand, Kelly Bates said she took progesterone to sustain her pregnancies, not to become pregnant.

I may be wrong, but I don't think taking progesterone would increase the chance of pregnancy - I am pretty sure the opposite is true and progesterone is used to prevent pregnancy. I know that the birth control pill I was given while still breastfeeding was a progesterone-only pill.

If she is using it to sustain pregnancies, that is consistent with their values.

Anonymous said...

Re:
I may be wrong, but I don't think taking progesterone would increase the chance of pregnancy - I am pretty sure the opposite is true and progesterone is used to prevent pregnancy. I know that the birth control pill I was given while still breastfeeding was a progesterone-only pill.

-----------------------------------

That is essentially correct.While it will help even out cycles at that age,if a woman doesn't have any viable eggs left,progesterone isn't going to do any good.It can't produce an egg if there isn't a good one left.(btw,natural progesterone isn't capable of preventing a pregnancy,only a synthetic one is,like you were given).

Cyn said...

That's fine, if your kids don't tend to over-eat. If they do, this is the path to obesity.
*****************
My point is none of the Duggar kids are heavy (except Josh, and he got that way mostly after he left home). So raiding the fridge or snack area is obviously not hurting them. Some of the older girls may think they need weight watchers or some diet, but personally I'm just not seeing it.

Anonymous said...

In case anyone's interested, Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar did an interview today that you can listen to online. They discussed college, the new time slot, an upcoming book tour, etc. They confirmed that a few of the kids are using CollegePlus! and may get their degree through Thomas Edison State College in New Jersey (a secular university, by the way), which allows distance learning. Anyway, here's the link to the interview:

http://toginet.com/shows/livingthedreammom

CappuccinoLife said...

It is really sick that someone who won't use birth control because God's wishes were being considered, would take progesterone to enhance her chances of becoming pregnant and carrying full term
************************

"Sick"?

The Duggar's and the Bates believe that life begins at conception. The progesterone is used to protect that life once it is begun, not to "enhance" fertility. Hoping to prevent the death of a baby by miscarriage is perfectly in line with their beliefs about fertility and life. They believe pregnancy and babies are good and gifts from God. They have no objection to medical help for issues when the body is not working correctly.

CappuccinoLife said...

If you are Quiverful, and you are unable to have a child on your own, from conception until the child is viable outside the womb, that is God's message that you have received all the Gifts he is going to bestow.
************************

Sorry, that is not the QF belief, nor anything either the Bates or the Duggars have said. Not sure where you got that from, but it wasn't the Duggars.
Nor have they ever object to modern medicine. They don't view pregnancy as a disease to be treated or prevented, and so to them birth control is not medicine.

There is no inconsistency in their doing what they can to keep a baby in the womb living and healthy, any more than it would be for them to keep their born children healthy with what resources they have available.

Anonymous said...

QF still is pretzel logic IMO.

If a woman is beginning her journey through menopause, including a decline in hormones, this would seem to qualify as god 'closing the womb'.

Convenient that QF folk want to 'birth armies of god's warriors' and just HAPPEN to allow hormones to help ensure this outcome while forbidding hormones that would limit offspring.

Kitten said...

They don't view pregnancy as a disease to be treated or prevented...

How ia taking progesterone to enable/sustain a pregnancy NOT "treating" a pregnancy? The Bates are enabling a result that would most likely not otherwise occur. If they were resolute in trusting their God to deliver a blessing when/if he chooses, they would accept the evidence that God's choice does not match their desires.

Now, you or I or anyone else can agree or not with the notion that uncontrolled conception is God's plan, but submission to God's will is a big part of the Bates' and Duggars' message of their beliefs, so it is viewed as hypocritical to the nth degree by a lot of us when they demonstrate their unwillingness to submit to a natural, but unwanted, result.

CappuccinoLife said...

How ia taking progesterone to enable/sustain a pregnancy NOT "treating" a pregnancy?
******************

It's not treating pregnancy as a disease. Progesterone is not a fertility treatment, either.

It's treating something disordered in the body that would end a *current* pregnancy with an already living, growing fetus, which to the Duggars and Bates families is just as valuable and important to protect as an already born child.

There is no hypocrisy in using medicine--modern or natural-- as they have not condemned the use of medicine. They believe in being open to pregnancy, and they are. Consistently. That belief has nothing to do with their beliefs on medicine one way or the other. Some QF people eschew modern medicine, many don't, and the reasoning is completely seperate from the issue of birth control.

hipopononymous said...

My point is none of the Duggar kids are heavy (except Josh, and he got that way mostly after he left home). So raiding the fridge or snack area is obviously not hurting them.

-----

Is it obvious? Can we see the inside of their freezer? What if one of the kids goes to get some blueberries, drops some by accident, and then shoves them back into the bag so he doesn't get in trouble? What if someone with a delicate immune system (Josie, in the future, as she can't eat blueberries now) got that "floor" blueberry? What if they decide to share some snacks with a friend, and that friend eats something they're allergic to?

I'm all for kids having freedom, and being able to choose their meals and snacks. However, young children-- Jackson's age-- are too young to have complete access to all the food. Parents need to TRAIN their kids to eat well before they can expect them to be able to limit themselves.

They may not be overweight now, but they're still kids-- continuing their current eating habits into adulthood may cause them to be overweight. Also, weight isn't the only aspect of obesity you have to worry about-- cholesterol, diabetes, etc. All of the young Duggar kids could be on the path to these diseases, and it wouldn't necessarily show on their waistline.

Anonymous said...

Applause @ "Kitten". Well stated.

Anonymous said...

a lot of women younger than the Bates and Duggar women need progesterone to sustain a pregnancy.It's not much different from needing a thyroid supplment,if it's low.
again,it's not going to make a woman produce an egg if there isn't a vaible one left.

Anonymous said...

IMO it's not at all about the use of medicine by QF folk, but, rather, that they claim to leave the pregnancy issue up to god, yet when it comes time to face peri-menopause's declining hormones, rather than admit this may be god's way of closing of the womb, they are ok with altering the natural course of menopause by supplementing hormones.

If hormones are verboten because they get in the way of the 'natural' process of getting pregnant, then it makes no sense that hormones are acceptable to alter the course of peri-menopause, which is also a 'natural' and inevitable process.

Sad to see women cling so desperately to their child bearing years, as if birthing babies is their only way to contribute.

ennvee said...

a lot of women younger than the Bates and Duggar women need progesterone to sustain a pregnancy.It's not much different from needing a thyroid supplment,if it's low.

===================================

The example of the low thyroid is not a comparable argument to justify progesterone treatments.

If one has low (or no) thyroid hormone, it affects the entire endocrine system and if left unchecked, can kill a person. Using a hormone to prolong a pregnancy is a choice, not a necessity.

The truth is, Kelly Bates cannot accept that her childbearing days are waning and with Gil publicly stating they are gunnin' for 20, they are apparently willing to do anything possible to hit that number before Kelly hits menopause.

I have a lot to criticize the Duggars for, but "cheating" God's will in this area isn't one of them.

mythoughtis said...

The main conflict (to me) with the Kathy Bates taking this medicine to either become pregnant or remain pregnant is that it affects what they call 'the will of God'.

They shudder at birth control, because that prevents 'the will of God', and interferes with his plan for you. Taking this medicine is intefering with the plan also.
maybe God determined that his first plan for you wasn't the right one, or maybe he knows something about this pregnancy or the future that you don't. Sustaining a pregnancy that God wants to end goes against that. If you truly believe all the stuff the Bates do, then you should truly be beleiving that also.

Now, I don't really believe that God terminates pregnancies - but then I also don't believe that God really cares whether a women is pregnant every year. And I don't beleive that God gets upset when people use birth control. Free will and all, remember?

MandySue said...

Sad to see women cling so desperately to their child bearing years, as if birthing babies is their only way to contribute.
-----------------------------

But they is the way they see it. Michelle and Kelly's whole identity is wrapped in child bearing and babies. How many times have we heard Michelle talk about "the babies?" Then when the baby is weaned it is passed on to a buddy?

She doesn't often talk about her children but about babies.

Allison said...

She doesn't often talk about her children but about babies.

---

Well, I think that Michelle loves all her children. She's spoken fondly of all of them at different points. But I agree that she does seem to have an affinity for the "baby" stage, compared to any of the other stages. Which is definitely a little concerning. But I don't think Michelle is going out of her way to get pregnant. I think if she was, she would be pregnant by now, because there has been plenty of time for it to happen. She also seems to be a little more OK with the "closing of the womb" since she's said on a few occasions that she knows each baby could be her last. Of course, she hasn't had any miscarriages (that we know of) so who knows what she would think. How people perceive miscarriages varies... some might think that meant God *does* want you to have a child (otherwise you wouldn't have gotten pregnant) and maybe something is wrong with you, but others might consider that a sign that the body isn't capable of carrying a child anymore. So it really depends on how the Duggars choose to rationalize a miscarriage (like how the Bates are). But at this point, absent any miscarriages, I don't think Michelle will go out of her way to get pregnant through infertility treatments or whatever. I think (and hope) she'll embrace it as a "new season of life" rather than forcing something.

CappuccinoLife said...

that they claim to leave the pregnancy issue up to god, yet when it comes time to face peri-menopause's declining hormones, rather than admit this may be god's way of closing of the womb, they are ok with altering the natural course of menopause by supplementing hormones.

**************

If they could not *get* pregnant, and used fertility treatments, that would be hypocrisy.

Once pregnant, they are already "with child" and according to their beliefs that baby in the womb is as valuable and worthy of care and protection as any born child. Telling them that a miscarriage is God's way of telling them to stop is the same, to them, as telling them the death of a 5 year old is God's message to stop.

I hope this is just internet chatter and these sentiments are not being verbalized to women IRL who have lost babies to miscarriage.

Anonymous said...

"If they could not *get* pregnant, and used fertility treatments, that would be hypocrisy."

*******************************

Like beauty, hypocrisy is in the eye of the beholder.

If we are to buy into the 'letting god decide' concept, then use of hormones into peri menopause to facilitate pregnancy makes no sense.

Either god is in charge of these things, or he is not and we humans are allowed, expected even, to help along Mother Nature.

If we are allowed to help Mother Nature along to facilitate pregnancy, then logic dictates that we are also allowed to help her along by preventing untimely pregnancies.

Either way is a perfectly fine way to look at the issue, but consistency is imperative.

Using hormones for one outcome but not another makes no sense if one accepts the whole 'god decides' idea.

ennvee said...

Telling them that a miscarriage is God's way of telling them to stop is the same, to them, as telling them the death of a 5 year old is God's message to stop.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't think anyone here is telling them to STOP having children. I've personally had two miscarriages and know that they happen because a pregnancy becomes not viable, usually because the fetus dies; unless Kelly Bates is drinking, drugging, has other physical problems that might terminate a pregnancy in utero, a miscarriage is not her fault, nor is it a reason for her to stop trying to become pregnant.

The thing is, NO pregnancy is guaranteed to end with a bouncing baby after 9 months. The Bateses' admission that they're gunning for the magic number of 20 is the give-away in this situation. They are using medical technology not available to the majority of the Quiverfull/Gothardites out there. I believe the hypocrisy lies in the fact that Kelly can't accept her miscarriages as "God's will" and has gone out of her way to attain medical assistance in the attempt (in her case successful) to maintain what otherwise may not have been viable pregnancies that, 30 years ago and into time immermorium, would have been terminated at some point.

Michelle Duggar may have one more pregnancy, in fact I expect her to become pregnant fairly soon, since it would coincide with Josie's second birthday. But if she miscarries, I think, especially after the ordeal with Josie, she will accept it and try, try again. However, for both of them at ages 43 and 44, the sands of the hourglass are just about gone.

That's life.

hannah said...

Congarts to Kelly.


I dont think anything is so bad about her using meds to help her to not miscarry.

I hope she has a healthy baby :).

Anonymous said...

I beleive JB has so much as said they would not use fertility treatments.(Progesterone itself is not one).
Besides that,Michelle's eggs would be far too old to be effective for that now.Their only option would be donor eggs,and I really can't see them resorting to that.

Anonymous said...

ms rylee said:
....I am unsure as to how the Duggars think about this, as I don't recall hearing that Michelle had any miscarriages.....
___________________________________

The Duggars have been very candid about Michelle's previous miscarriages before and I believe after Josh. They were very early on in her birthing years. She has not stated that she has ever had anymore. Michelle attributes her miscarriages to birth control use to partial justify the "trusting in God" theory that she and Jim Bob employ. Michelle won't attribute miscarriages to age because she has never had one in her later years. In fact she and Anna (and millions of other women) were both young when they occured. Kelly Bates had miscarriages both early and late in her reproductive years.

MOM IN TEXAS

SuzanneDeAZ said...

Once the child is conceived both the Bates and the Duggars will do everything medically possible to substain the life of the child. They believe in using medicine to enhance life. The months of providing medical treatments to Josie shows they are allowing medicine to keep life going. They put conception in God's hands but once the child is on its way they will do all that is humanly possible to bring that child to a healthy life. I see no inconsistency in any of this.

Jen said...

"I don't recall hearing that Michelle had any miscarriages."

-----------------------------------

She had a miscarriage between Josh and the twin Janna and John David. She was on birth control pills at the time. A doctor told them the birth control pills might have been the cause of the miscarriage. They say that it was that event that caused them to search the bible and change their heart for children. They decided to allow God to give them as many children/blessings as He saw fit. Now they have a big family.

Lisa said...

I just got finished listening to an interview that Michelle did in October on the radio program Living the Dream Mom. I know it has been brought up before about the Duggar family taking freebies and a viewer of their show wrote in a question about this that the host asked Michelle. This was the first time I had ever heard this be addressed by the Duggar family. Michelle admitted that they do often recieve gifts that various companies want to give them or get invited to various places. Orignally they tried to limit these because getting freebies is not why they decided to do the show but then they decided that if the place that was giving them the freebie would allow them to, the Duggar family would make a donation in that places name to various ministries that they support. This is their way of paying for the things that they receive.

heavennoseven said...

fund raising

http://www.ksnt.com/news/local/story/19-Kids-and-Fundraising/2cANHjFP4kmdvwlPdEMzWQ.cspx

ennvee said...

Michelle admitted that they do often recieve gifts that various companies want to give them or get invited to various places. Orignally they tried to limit these because getting freebies is not why they decided to do the show but then they decided that if the place that was giving them the freebie would allow them to, the Duggar family would make a donation in that places name to various ministries that they support. This is their way of paying for the things that they receive.

=================================

Wow, I just commented on this theory on the thread regarding tonight's episode with Joy's birthday train ride. I KNEW there was a quid-pro-quo going on. Jim Bob mentions said place is "wholesome, Christian, family-oriented," etc., donates a few bucks and the place gets nation-wide promotion. A win-win.

Reg poster but anon due to location said...

I attended the fundraiser featuring the Duggars for the Pregnancy Care Center in Lawrence, KS yesterday.

Got a pic of my daughter with Jinger. I can assure you all, not one of those kids has a weight issue. They are all thin.

The whole family came out at the beginning, and they all sang a song together. Then the kids all performed 2 songs with their violins, and then JoyAnna led the younger kids in a song while the older kids stood by. It was really cute. Joy made a small mistake but gathered herself quickly and continued the song - quite impressive for a 12 year old in front of a crowd of probably close to 1000 people.

All the kids were there except Josie and Josh. Anna and Mackynzie were not there either. Jordyn has grown a lot since the shows that are currently airing! Jennifer is my favorite for some reason, and she's even more darling in person. Grandma Duggar was also there, and after Jim Bob and Michelle introduced all the children, Grandma Duggar and a family friend took Jordyn and Jennifer off stage while the other kids performed.

The Duggars did not accept a fee for their appearance and would not even accept reimbursement for travel expenses, either. They also donated proceeds of the sale of their books from the book signing after their appearance to the Pregnancy Care Center. Impressive to see them put their money where their mouths are.

Once the kids were done performing their songs, they left the auditorium and Jim Bob and Michelle spoke for about 30 min. They basically gave an abbreviated version of their story - how they met, their first couple years of marriage, having Josh, having the miscarriage, reaching the decision to accept as many children as God saw fit to bless them with, Jim Bob's brief political career, how they started doing shows with Discovery and a little of what that's like now.

One thing that stood out to me was that when they agreed to the first show, they made it a caveat that their faith was not to be cut out of the show. The producers agreed and the show became Discovery Health Channel's #1 show that year. Jim Bob said he believes that the show was blessed with success because it showcases their faith. You gotta admit, if you compare the Duggars show where they are clear and consistent with their faith to the Gosselins show, where they only said the right "God words" but didn't actually put them in practice, the Duggars have been blessed while the Gosselins almost seem to have been cursed.

I heard they attended a local church yesterday morning, but I'm not sure what church it was. There was an activity room for kids at the event, and I think at least some Duggars were in there for a while interacting with the kids, but I wasn't in there so I'm not totally sure. Jinger, JoyAnna, and Jana were in the auditorium for a bit before the event started, and were very gracious and signed autographs and took photos with people.

last2cu said...

I think that Michelle went a little cookoo after Josie was born..it is kinda sad to also see her holding her children's wrist. I don't think that the children are allowed to see much of her...Her children are amazing..cute, positive, caring, very poised and articulate....They should be proud of them

Jen said...

I finished listening to the Oct interview too. My take on the freebies was a bit different than posted by another before.

The question presented to Michelle was How do you keep from excess and self indulgence, like our world is so prone to, with all the freebies offered to you?

Michelle answered they try to except the offers graciously when they can. She then went on to say the girls are good at seeing the stuff and wanting to give it to charity like the El Salvador one, since they have so little. She went on to add that in that case they ask the company that donated/offered the stuff if they could give that stuff to the charity in the companies name.

That sure changes the comments on the Duggars paying for all the stuff they take to El Salvador. They are still generous but it isn't just their money paying for the things to El Salvador.

Anonymous said...

Visiting with the Duggars:

http://wissmanns.blogspot.com/2011/02/week-of-surprises.html

Anonymous said...

Michelle and the eldest girls are doing a talk today at the "Beautiful girls retreat" at a church in Pinnacle Hills.
http://plixi.com/p/78628740
http://crosschurch.com/category/portfolio/beautiful-girl’s-retreat/

Y'know, about being a Godly woman. If the girls get to speak I wouldn't mind hearing it.

Anonymous said...

On the Wissmanns blog site mentioned by another poster there is a picture of Josie smiling (so beautiful by the way) and I noticed there isn't any tape on her face. Does this mean she is off of oxygen? Does anyone know?
I also noticed on last night's episode as Jim Bob went into say he loved her before leaving for El Salvador it didn't appear that she was wearing a monitor.

MOM IN TEXAS

Anonymous said...

Looks like the Maxwells are visiting the Duggars. I just read on their blog (http://www.titus2.com/blog/) that they have arrived in AR. It sounds like the Duggars have had quite a bit of social time lately, according to all the posts about their latest adventures and guests.

I'm kind of curious what "surprises" the Wisemanns were referring to. I suppose we wait and see! For some reason, I can't get enough of this family!

Anonymous said...

How do all of these megafamilies have so much free time to travel around so much? How can they possibly earn enough to support these large broods when they are on the road so much?

Kitten said...

How do all of these megafamilies have so much free time to travel around so much? How can they possibly earn enough to support these large broods when they are on the road so much?

Can't speak for all families, but I believe the Duggars now receive passive income from rentals of land and buildings. That's how a lot of people who don't seem to work earn their income.

Of course, the Duggars also have TLC, but I believe we can cross off "get a reality show contract" as a usual source of income. :>

Some of these families seem to earn money by performing and speaking, and depend on people at each location to provide free or low-cost lodgings and meals to reduce their expenses. They also all seem to have online "stores" to sell religious merchandise - you can manage that sort of thing from almost anywhere. Can't say how much they make, but it seems to work for them.

The rest who are self-employed, like the Bates - I guess they can decide when they want to work and when they don't. Or their work is seasonal/intermittent - I imagine the Bates are pretty busy spring through summer, and not so much in the winter, unless there's an emergency like an ice storm.

Consulting can often be done over the phone or via email, especially if it's something like IT support or web design. There are also some professions you can "take with you" - like medical/legal transcription, journalism, etc. Some people with blog sites actually make money by selling advertising or receiving free services/mechandise for writing about certain products and companies. It might take a while for your blog to get enough traction to get to this point, but I know several people who have made it to that level.

There are many ways to earn money without going to an office every day - some require some startup money, like the rental properties, and some just depend on luck. Some of my Arkansas relatives got a check every year simply for allowing the oil & gas cos. to put a well on their land - they got more if the well was actually pumping. And if they needed a little extra one year, they would sell some timber/logging rights.

way too into this said...

"I wonder if I can borrow Jill for a few months and get her to train mine to put things back where they go..."

My mom says the same thing. Personally I wouldn't mind having a Duggar (or two or 19) come live with us for a few weeks but that's just me.

Anonymous said...

I saw a comment by JJ in another thread, but it seemed more appropriate for Free Discussion, so I'm responding here. It was a suggestion that the Duggars plant a garden and utilize the vegetables and herbs they produce in their own daily diet.

I've long thought that they totally ignore one of the best resources they have in abundance, which is plenty of land and plenty of hands to work the land. You don't have to be a master gardener to produce a variety of fresh vegetables: zucchini, squash, and tomatoes are very easy to grow and produce a nice crop. A simple herb garden is also an easy project and could be started indoors in smaller containers, then the plants transplanted outside after they have sprouted and grown a little.

Having a few chickens and a chicken coop would provide the whole family with fresh, organic eggs.

Planting some partially mature fruit trees would provide them with fresh organic fruit in the years to come.

All of these natural, outdoorsy things could be the combined job of the boys and the younger girls.

It's such a shame that they absolutely shun doing anything like this on their large property. The kids are home all day long and having some daily chores would probably do the younger ones some real good. Not to mention, cut back on the processed foods they eat.

A drip irrigation system and a timer can take care of the times they are out of town promoting the show, plus they could ask a friend or Josh/Anna to come by and check on things when they are gone longer.

I grew up out in the country and there is nothing that tastes so good as picking a ripe tomato, warm from the vine, and eating it. Or having a fresh egg for breakfast. Sitting around the dinner table commenting on the zucchini lasagna that mom made using zucchini from our own garden, not to mention homemade tomato sauce because we were overrun with tomatoes.