Tues, December 15, Designing Duggars

The Duggars are back with the Bates and Wilsons! Watch as the families put the finishing touches on the Bates' home renovation project. But with over 40 kids running around, will the families be able to get everything done in their one-week deadline?

30 minutes

90 comments:

pumpkin said...

I wonder if TLC will do any updates on the new baby during this show.

Current situation notwithstanding, I am looking forward to this episode. Maybe they will finally announce that some of the older children are courting.

I can't wait to see the Bates family's home all finished. I felt so bad for Kelly and Gil that they have gone in home-limbo for 7 or 8 months now!

I am really happy that Kelly and Gil can now have a queen-size bed. My heart went out to them when she was telling Michelle that she was looking forward to having a queen-size bed in their new bedroom, since only a double fit in their old one. Kelly and Gil deserve to have a bit more room to roll over at night. (When my DH and I have to share a double bed, someone always winds up with an elbow in the face in the middle of the night.)

I am also really glad that all those little Bates boys can get out of their attic room. That looked very claustrophobia inducing to me!

Digger said...

I don't know if they would announce if any of the kids are courting. That may be a private matter. Josh was courting someone before Anna and that didn't work out. I think they would wait until an actual engagement to announce anything.

Anonymous said...

Where did you hear Josh was courting someone before Anna?

Anonymous said...

They probably wouldn't announce a courtship without a proposal, which for them is considered just as binding as a marriage covenant. I'm in a courtship and only our parents and siblings knew about it until we were engaged... the point is that neither person ends up with a broken part if the courtship is ended before engagement (this isn't considered a "failed" courtship btw). So I doubt they'd embarrass/hurt some girl or guys feelings by broadcasting it nationally before engagement.

Anonymous said...

I believe Josh himself said he had been interested in someone before Anna in an interview on some earlier episode. I also feel that the 'courting' is a private matter unless an announcement is made.

Anonymous said...

hey probably wouldn't announce a courtship without a proposal, which for them is considered just as binding as a marriage covenant. I'm in a courtship and only our parents and siblings knew about it until we were engaged... the point is that neither person ends up with a broken part if the courtship is ended before engagement (this isn't considered a "failed" courtship btw). So I doubt they'd embarrass/hurt some girl or guys feelings by broadcasting it nationally before engagement.
___________________
I meant a broken heart* not part, lol. Sorry!

Digger said...

Josh had been courting one of the Holt girls. It was announced on I believe it was the Gothard site but that was a few years ago. I wonder what happened to the Holts? They used to be great friends with the Duggars but they have never been on the TV show just the early specials.

Anonymous said...

Oh! Was Josh courting that young lady with whom he was shown skating with on one of the earlier specials? I can't remember her name.

Kat said...

I wonder what happened to the Holts?

Maybe the ending of that courtship wasn't as cordial as they would like us to think. I'm not sure how the end of a "courtship" would be any different than the ending of any relationship - any time you put yourself into a vulnerable position, you can end up with a broken heart, whether you kissed or not. Emotions do not depend on physical expression.

Anonymous said...

In courtship, if the woman's family decides to end it then he tells the man. If the man decides to end the courtship he tells the girl's father typically who then tells her. The courtship is never supposed to end with the two courters having to discuss it themselves because the girl's father is still her spiritual authority. The reason why people courting don't typically kiss or spend any alone time together is to avoid forming any emotional, spiritual, or physical bond and attachment before marriage. Emotions are mostly supposed to come after the wedding. That's also why the wedding happens so quickly, because it's hard to prevent a bond from forming before the covenant is made. I hope that helps...

Joanna said...

Josh said in the courting episode that he had "met" other girls before Anna. They do met, are attracted to, and get to know other people of the opposite sex without formal dating or courting. Most people in our society believe that you have to actually go on an actual "date" to talk to or get spend time with someone you are interested in. That's not the case. I believe in becoming geniune friends, even if too people are attracted to each other or even feel that they are in love, before you actually date the person or persue a relationship.

Anonymous said...

I understand the purpose of a courtship, but it is really a version of an arranged marriage. Since the couple cannot really have a private conversation or learn anything about each other, to see if they are even emotionally compatible (forget about physically compatible!!), there is a great chance that the union will fail. How will they even know if they have anything to talk about? I guess if no one reads or watches the news and such, perhaps it isn't as critical. I know that intellectual compatibility was very important in choosing my mate, and I don't think my dad could have done better than I did!

We can't compare Jim Bob and Michelle to what they are choosing for their children, since they got to have a normal relationship, complete with emotional intimacy and probably (or definitely) even *kissing*!! So, the fact that their marriage has survived for 20 years isn't all that surprising. It will be much more surprising if Josh and Anna or any of the other Duggars in courtships have longevity in their relationships.

Unless, emotional or intellectual superficiality is something that is OK for those who favor courtship. I really don't know.

Joanna said...

TLC has finally updated the videos on the Duggars site, about 5 new videos that went with the past few weeks. Guess what, Erin Bates is in college! She's attending a coversetive Christian college in Knoxville called Crown Colleg. She is studying music theory. That would be a college I'd be interested in except for one thing, the girls wear dresses to school, which I'm not comfortable with. But it looks like a really good school.

Also Jana made a college visit with Erin. This is the second confirmed college we know that Jana has visited. Just an interesting thought, what if Jana did decide to go to that college, which is like a 1000 miles from home. If that actually did happen, it's never easy for loving parents to let go of any child, especially the 1st born daughter and youngest child. But being that it's a college right up the Duggar's ally and being near they Bates, it would be easier for Jim Bob and Michelle to accept, it that would be the case.

Remember, that just an interesting thought. But who knows. It could happen.

Kat said...

"...avoid forming any emotional, spiritual, or physical bond and attachment before marriage. Emotions are mostly supposed to come after the wedding."

Wow. Then how the heck are you supposed to know you are marrying the right person? Why not just draw names out of a hat? Or practice arranged marriages? Maybe that's what they do, but they just don't publicize it?

I can't imagine not having *some* kind of emotional attachment to someone I was thinking about spending the rest of my life with. If I only saw the person as a good friend, and felt no "draw" to that person, why would I marry him/her? Does practicality reign that much in the ATI world?

And no matter who tells whom, or discusses it with each other, the two people involved are the ones who would have the feelings. They don't have to discuss it with each other to feel a loss, or disappointment, or sadness, or any other emotion. And whether you were the "right" person for someone or not, no one likes to be told s/he doesn't make the grade. I mean, if my father came to me and said "Our next-door neighbor doesn't think you're marriage material," I'd feel SOMETHING, even if I had never given that person a second thought!!!

Acording to the story, both Josh and Anna "felt" that God was telling them that they were a match. Okay, but what if Anna had felt someone else was a match? If JB had gone to Mr. Keller and proposed a courtship (is that how it's done?) and Mr. Keller had turned him down, don't you think that Josh would have felt puzzled, or disappointed, or even spurned? Or would he have simply happily turned his attention to the next young woman God suggested to him?

All of which is a long-winded way of saying this is why I don't "get" courtship, and how it differs from dating. I'm happy to be enlightened, but I haven't read or heard anything yet that really explains it.

Anonymous said...

posted by Joanna, regarding a Duggar girl going to college: "If that actually did happen, it's never easy for loving parents to let go of any child, especially the 1st born daughter and youngest child. "

It's not supposed to be about what is easy for the parents.

Being an effective parent entails raising your child to have wings, fly out into the world, and find their own way.

It seems to me that the Duggar parents have raised their brood to be afraid of the world and to live within a mile of their parents for the rest of their lives. Isn't that why JimBob purchased all that land?

Anonymous said...

Josh did court at least one young lady before Anna.I remember seeing a special where they all (the Duggars) took the young lady ice skating. I, too, wondered what happened to her. I understand the concept of courtship but sometimes the Duggars,at least Josh, has contridicted himself when he discussed courtship. He said that they wait for God's guidance but on one episode he said that he asks Jim Bob for his advice on of a young lady is right for him, which hints at the fact that he did show interest in more than Anna and the other young lady.This also is not letting God guide your heart, though.

It's good to see Erin Bates going to school to further her education.Although Gil said she was taking a class in music theory (this is on the TLC web video) he didn't indicate if she was pursuing a degree in music theory. Nonetheless it is good that they are allowed to make choices. I wonder if the older Bates, I think there's only Zach and Michaela that's older, are interested in doing the same? Jana went along with Erin to class. I wonder if she is interested in attending school, in particular, Crown College, the conservative Christian school that Erin attends? I still say Jana and Zach would be a good match, more so than Erin and John David.

MOM IN TEXAS

Jane in California said...

Anonymous said...

I understand the purpose of a courtship, but it is really a version of an arranged marriage.

* * *

Sure sounds like it. What I find quite interesting is that it seems like many conservative religions don't agree with God's idea of man having free will. They much prefer having control over decisions made by others, even to the point of selecting a mate for your child, and then telling the adult child that they will "learn to love" the partner selected for them.

I think the Duggars would never force one of their children to marry someone they did not want to marry. But I do think there is certainly too much room for parents who are more rigid and less loving to do so, and that's what's not right about it.

It reminds me of the offshoots of Mormonism, where you hear stories of women who have literally escaped, telling how they were forced into marriages with much older men, etc. It's this "courtship" idea taken to an extreme.

Kat said...

I don't get the feeling that courtship is really any different from dating. First you get to know someone as a friend and decide you are compatible. Then, spending time focusing on that person allows you to get a feel for whether s/he is really your "match" in intellect, personality, preferences, ideas, etc. I have never "dated" someone I didn't already know and like.

Whether you call it courtship or dating, once you single someone out for more attention than you would give to a regular friend, you have declared an interest and are vulnerable to rejection if that interest is not returned. Josh's experience shows that courtship isn't foolproof, either.

Seems like the only real difference is that courtship is *intended* to lead directly to marriage (you try, you buy), while dating could be construed as a less focused form of courtship, with a less restrictive pathway (30-day return policy if not satisfied).

Digger said...

Maybe a silly question, but if two young people are courting can't they talk to each other on the phone in private or do parents have to listen over their shoulders?

Kara said...

Wow. Then how the heck are you supposed to know you are marrying the right person? Why not just draw names out of a hat? Or practice arranged marriages? Maybe that's what they do, but they just don't publicize it?
_____________________________

Courtship is definitely not an arranged marriage. The girl has to approve of the guy after he show interest in her and asks her father if the girl is interested too. Things like intellectual capability are considered as well as finances, education, if you have things in common, and whether you are physically attracted to each other.

There's no doubt that Josh and Anna were "drawn" to each other. I at least saw that there was some chemistry between them. Courtship ensures that you obey your parents wishes too (unless they are unsaved or don't believe in courtship, then the individual person is their own spiritual authority). In my courtship we met through college, so we do spend more time together in group settings have have private conversations in public settings. Different people do different things.

To say that it is a going to fail though is awful. How many marriages between people who dated fail? Over half. So dating isn't foolproof either even though you "know" each other on a different level. I can't see Josh and Anna getting a divorce.

nccalgal said...

By seeking the "approval" of the parents, the son or daughter is showing respect for the parents' values and trust in their judgement. The parent has a "vested interest" in the child but still can be more objective when it comes to the "nitty-gritty"; asking the hard questions like what are your plans for the future, how do you plan to support a family and what are the person's core values. They often see character flaws that could spell marital problems. Every family has a "story" of a bad relationship or marriage where the red flags were wildly waving but the child refused to acknowledge them until they were "knee-deep" in a terrible mess and often with small children involved. Then they turn to the parent to bail them out of the situation and often the parents have to help raise the grandchildren.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

The little jail room is so cute.

Anonymous said...

You know, I really like the Bates' family. They are so genuine and loving, and I truly love Gil. I am finding that more and more I can't stand Jim Bob and his arrogance, and compared to Gil he is a real jerk.

I wish the Bates well. I especially think their little boy Jackson is so wholesome and adorable!

Anonymous said...

I think pushing the baby on the ring during a race was very unsafe. Well, I found a lot of unsafe things.

Anonymous said...

I wish they had acknowledged that Baby Josie had been born. When the Roloffs had the catapult accident on their farm, the next week they had a short clip at the beginning just thanking people for their concern and filling in the viewers on what had happened. Heck, I was at least expecting a black screen with some writing about what has happened so far.

Snap! said...

I'm watching as the Duggars visit the Bates. I can't believe they thought it was a good idea to travel with their children while Michelle is pregnant with her 19th.
Hopefully Michelle will put her health ahead of the show and other committments in the future.
I have to add- the Bates are such a cute family!

Anonymous said...

The Bates home has really come along well.It is a far cry from what it used to be.It seems hard to believe that they were able to survive in such a small house.I really like Gil and Kelly Bates and their children. Seeing how involved their children are in other activities outside the house is nice.I think it is so good that their daughter Michaela is a volunteer EMT along with her brothers being volunteer firefighters.I couldn't imagine any Duggar girl doing something like that. Not because they don't necessarily want to but because I really don't think it would be as encouraged by Jim Bob. Plus the Duggar girls seem like they shun a lot of work done outside of the house. I think they have a strong work ethic but not they are not career minded. Even Erin Bates attends college.Again I can't see any of the Duggar children doing this either. It would be nice but I doubt it will happen.

All the families seem as if they were having a good time being together and working towards a goal.But as usual I had some concern with so many small children being around such heavy equipment. I thought I would scream when I saw the kids playing on the construction equipment (I guess its called a digger) as well as the boys using electric saws and such. I know its the same everytime but I still think it is so dangerous that they allow such carelessness with no visible safety precautions. Even at the skating rink, one of the boys was allowed to run the race while pushing Jordyn. All I could think is "Oh God he's going to turn that baby over". Again such carelessness.

Joy Anna's comment at the end was very rude in regards to Clark Wilson's weight. Even though she says she was only repeating Jill, it was still very mean. I believe that it was a comment made by someone else judging by the way everyone reacted off screen. It goes to show that the Duggar kids aren't as squeaky clean as Jim Bob and Michelle would like for us to believe.

MOM IN TEXAS

pumpkin said...

I'm sorry they didn't finish more projects while the Duggars were visiting but it seems like everyone had a good time.

The Reith family is very talented! I was so impressed!

Jim Bob and Clark's fall at the skate rink looked like it hurt! I think they were just too manly to admit how much it really hurt.

Sunny said...

Laughed aloud at the way Mrs. Bates stares at Mr. Bates when he's talking during the interview!

Somebody's Nana said...

DUGGARS, COURTING, and other THINGS:

Courting is no more than focused attention to another with the intent that it will hopefully lead to marriage. It doesn't always, and either party can put a halt to it at any time but is obligated to do so quickly if they know it is not going to work. Sometimes hand-holding is allowed once the decision to marry has been made; often it is not. Usually, couples court within the presence of others, not necessarily because they can't be trusted, but to have someone to safeguard their reputations. Most couples who court do not kiss until their wedding day. Some will hold hands and may kiss upon their engagement.

However, I know of one couple who did not even touch each other until they were married. They courted in the presence of her elderly landlady who stayed within eyesight of them at all times but allowed them privacy to talk and get to know each other. I know it was difficult for her not to hug and comfort him when his father died; but their commitment to each other to not touch until their wedding day was important. I know his because he is my little brother.

It does seem strange to outsiders, but it isn't strange to those who court. To them, it is a perfectly reasonable way to ensure that both parties come into the marriage sexually pure and free from any hurts or damage caused by other relationships. This is the biblical standard they believe in. The inconvenience and waiting is well worth it for them. They learn early on to put aside their needs for the moment when the goal is something greater.

Outsiders will often think that parents arrange the courtships, but they rarely do. Parents will usually be consulted, but if the intended person is a believer, most parents will simply let their child (male or female) make the decision themselves. Most fathers of the females I know will meet with the intended suitor, but they let their daughters decide if they want to be courted by him. The meeting and asking permission of parents is a courtesy, not a control thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with the cults and their horrible ways of controlling their women!!

Most people who know someone who has courted and married are impressed with their maturity and commitment and even a little jealous that they have the exclusivity of knowing that they have been only with each other, never anyone else in an emotionally close or sexual way. It is that bond that makes very strong marriages.

So when you hear the Duggar girls say they want to be courted, it will not be because their parents insist on it, but because they want to be the special one in someone's eyes to the exclusion of anyone else. Don't we all want to be that special??

Anonymous said...

I can't be the only person who just watched tonight's episode and was delighted by the incredible music played by the Reiht (sp?) family...what talented musicians. But not a single person was dancing or moving! To my mind, that is music that cries out to be enjoyed with dancing. It's lively and is really exciting to listen to. The family deliberately chooses music that will 'please the Lord'... can't these families find a way to reconcile their worship while honoring this music the way it was meant to be honored?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous - I really couldn't agree more about Gil Bates and JB. I'm a huge fan of the show, and I've tried to give JB the benefit of the doubt this whole time. I believed he really did have a good heart but may just be a little awkward or off-putting for some reason. However, just like you, the more I compare him to Gil Bates and others, the more he bothers me. I love the Bates family, too, and I can see a "realness" or humbleness in Gil that I don't really get from Jim Bob. I don't know. I shouldn't judge, but each time I see JB he drives me further and further up a wall.
-Christina

Digger said...

Again another family that are musicians. The Wrights were awesome! They totally embarrass the violin sqeaking Duggars.

Darn, I was hoping the house would be done. I'm glad the Bates went to a hotel.

Michaela is a medic? Cool! I wonder why they had to call 911?

mlou said...

I usually try not to pick on the Duggars, but I have to agree with the above poster about the roller rink. I gasped when I saw an infant being pushed around the rink with 30 other kids.

It looked as though one of the boys nearly knocked the stroller over. This looks like nothing more than a lack of common sense. There was no reason that baby could not have stayed off the rink with her MOTHER. IMO this is an example of the buddy system going overboard.

chocolatebee said...

Sunny said:
Laughed aloud at the way Mrs. Bates stares at Mr. Bates when he's talking during the interview!
_________________________________

Funny I laughed as well when I saw this even though I know it is a common occurance.If you pay attention to all the couples (JB and Michelle, Josh and Anna, Gil and Kelly) all the women stare at their husbands with complete admiration whenever he speaks. I find this to be so creepy.I mean I never understood why they have to sit so close and stare so intensely.It's like reading a weird romance novel.

Another entertaining episode though. I love the Bates family.They're really pleasant. And the Reith family was awesome. I really loved their bluegrass style and how down home the Bates reaction to it.That was cute.Baby Jordyn seemed to be the only one moved it.I know that the Duggars don't believe in dancing (I can't speak for the other families) but I really can't see any harm in one swaying a little to the music. There are many ways a person can show their appreciation for music that isn't lustful and inapproriate.I find it hard to listen to even Christian music and not want to physically move and I too don't believe in a lot of lustful dancing.

It seems that the Bates support their children's decisions to enagage in activities outside of the house like Zack,Michaela, and the younger one being part of the volunteer fire dept./EMT services as well as Erin attending college. I think it is nice that they encourage their children to carve their own path in the world. I have not yet seen this in the Duggar children so much. Josh and John David have hand me down businesses. Neither has yet to pursue their own original goals. Josh receive the car business from JB, the towing business as well, which is now in the hands of John David.And none of the girls have pursued an interest outside of the home yet.As much as I like the Duggars this is one of the things that bothers me.

Anonymous said...

Pushing Jordyn around a skating rink like that? One mishap and she could have been killed. And playing around on the construction equipment, again? Or the girls jumping on the trampoline, unsupervised, with no netting around it? This is why most insurance companies won't provide homeowners to people with trampolines! They are too darn dangerous!

I am just getting sick to death of all these families total lack of concern for health and safety of their children! For heaven's sakes! We have seen dozens of examples of times when any one of them could have been seriously injured, maimed or killed by their lack of care for safety! Lollypops seem benign for an infant, compared to racing her around a rink in a stroller!

I can barely watch such carelessness!

Safety First said...

Two comments:

1. I thought I'd have a heart attack when I saw baby Jordyn being pushed around the skating rink in her stroller. What if someone had fallen on her, bumped into her, or she had been tipped over? What were those people thinking?

2. Regarding the family playing the bluegrass family on the porch. The young lady said, "we only play bluegrass music that is pleasing to the Lord".

I don't understand what she means by that. What type of bluegrass music is there that is NOT pleasing to the Lord ? Is there "Nike" bluegrass music? Are there pornographic bluegrass lyrics? To me, her comment implies that maybe the Lord doesn't love people who enjoy Frank Sinatra? Michael Buble? jazz, Garth Brooks, Kermit the Frog singing "it's not easy being green"?
Seems incredibly judgemental for this group of people who keep insisting they do everything for "the Lord".

CappuccinoLife said...

I loved this one. Love the Bates family. :) Loved the awesome bluegrass.

Looks like everyone had a great time, and the house is looking nice too, even though it's far from finished.

Kliff said...

I was amazed at the musical ability of the Reiths. That was really fun to watch. I was also dumbstruck that no one danced when they were playing. Heck, I was dancing in my own living room.

Jana is as cute as a button and that Jackson bates is hilarious. What a great kid.

Beedageeda said...

chocolatebee said: Funny I laughed as well when I saw this even though I know it is a common occurance.If you pay attention to all the couples (JB and Michelle, Josh and Anna, Gil and Kelly) all the women stare at their husbands with complete admiration whenever he speaks. I find this to be so creepy.I mean I never understood why they have to sit so close and stare so intensely.It's like reading a weird romance novel.
_____________________
This doesn't bother me so much unless the couple is Josh and Anna. Anna does have doe eyes when Josh speaks. And Josh doesn't do the same when she speaks. That makes me worry for Anna. However, it doesn't bother me when Michelle and Kelly look at their husbands that way because their husbands look at them just as adoringly. Especially Gil. I noticed this in last night's episode how he was looking at her with such admiration when she was talking about how she didn't like blood.

Mrs. Nesh said...

I wish they had acknowledged that Baby Josie had been born.
------

They did...at the bottom of the screen in the left hand corner there was a very nice message wishing the family the best.

Anonymous said...

I really do hope the Duggars reflect on how dangerous pushing that baby in the roller skating rink was. I literally sat up from my seat and shrieked. It's child endangerement and I can't believe the rink staff didn't stop it. Apparently nobody in that building had any common sense.

Kara said...

I must have completely missed the birth announcement on the screen too! Good job for spotting that!

Anonymous said...

I guess it's just me but when I see the two eldest Bates kids with the newest baby I find it creepy beyond belief. It was as if THEY were the parents of the child.

Emiku said...

Sunny said...

Laughed aloud at the way Mrs. Bates stares at Mr. Bates when he's talking during the interview!

-----

LOL I noticed that too & it reminded me of how Michelle stares at Jim Bob when he talks. But then in the next scene when Kelly was talking, her husband was also staring at her in that same way too.

Kliff said...

To all the people freaking out about the stroller in the skating rink: Have none of you even stopped to consider that the stroller might have been empty at the time?

It is very possible that the boy was using the stroller as a balance tool, (like a bucket or chair when learning to ice skate) or was simply just being used as a toy by the child (perhaps pretending he was racing a 'car' around the rink).

I'm suprised by the harsh responses by those that find the children's playing so dangerous. They're kids and they're going to climb things, jump from things, and all sorts of other instances where they might get hurt. I think the fact that these families have gotten through dozens of children without any of them being killed, maimed, or seriously injured is a testament to the fact that they do monitor their children and try to keep them safe.

Easy, everyone. Not everything is quite as dire as it may appear to be.

Snap! said...

I wonder if the Duggar chidren would have ventured out a bit more- like the Bates- if it wasn't for the show. They have to be available for taping- even Josh travels with them sometimes. It wouldn't be much of a show if half of the older kids were out pursuing their own interest.
I agree that it was very dangerous to have baby Jordyn being pushed in a stroller at the roller rink. I cringed when I saw this. The younger kids should have had helmets. I wonder if there are injuries but they don't discuss them on air.

Beedageeda said...

Kliff said...
To all the people freaking out about the stroller in the skating rink: Have none of you even stopped to consider that the stroller might have been empty at the time?
__________
It was not empty. Jordyn was in it facing forward, no less. YIKES! I can only hope she was strapped in securely.

Our local skating rink has a Mommy and Me thing where mommies can bring their 0-3 year olds and skate around the rink with the babes in the strollers. I was tempted to try this with a friend just for the exercise, but we decided it didn't seem safe. Even with just Mommies and babies in strollers in a very controlled, calm environment - it's not safe! It's even worse with 40 children and 10 goofy adults falling all over the place!!

Digger said...

I love the jail cell in the house. Every home with kids should have one.

Anonymous said...

The couples staring at each other while the other talks is a bit much, but MUCH better than the spouse acting disinterested, interrupting and waiting for THEIR chance to talk!

Deborah said...

The Bates seem like a very nice family. (As are the Duggars of course)

Since this is a discussion board, though, I would like to bring up the fact that the two oldest Bates 'kids' said they don't do anything out in the world unless they are in pairs or more. That's so restricting and makes the world sound like such a fearful place. I honestly wonder what they think would happen if they did something by themselves?

I had a touch of this when I was a child. (Not for religious reasons, just because my sister and I did all the same activities) I grew to resent being around her.

Anonymous said...

Just a thought.......wouldn't it be awkward if the older Duggar kids and the older Bates kids courted and the courtship did not work out.

I mean, would the two families visit as much?

Anonymous said...

Jill was pushing Jennifer in a stroller on the rink and Jason was pushing Jordyn. That one was kind of alarming because Jason can be quite competitive and wild. He was the crutch chewer. That could have been a disaster.

I would love to see that when the girls are active doing something and Michelle has to sit out, Michelle should be watching those babies. MICHELLE IS THE MOM!!! I'm all for the girls helping out from time to time but Michelle could not participate so there were no excuses. She should have been taking care of those babies instead of socializing. The girls need to socialize more than she.

Celestie said...

I am concerned about the girls using power tools with all that hair. It could easily become tangle. They should pull it back or up or otherwise contain it.

Celestie said...

I went through one pregnancy in a double bed. Too crowded for the 3 of us. Very happy Kelly is getting a bigger bed.

Anonymous said...

I have a feeling that they won`t use safty glasses etc. Until, someone gets really hurt. It scares me.

Kat said...

...they don't do anything out in the world unless they are in pairs or more.

Does that mean that Erin takes someone along when she goes to class? Probably easily accepted at a conservative Christian school, but I hope her buddy is 1) interested in music theory, or 2) has a good book to read!

Jane in California said...

Deborah said...

Since this is a discussion board, though, I would like to bring up the fact that the two oldest Bates 'kids' said they don't do anything out in the world unless they are in pairs or more. That's so restricting and makes the world sound like such a fearful place. I honestly wonder what they think would happen if they did something by themselves?
* * *

Are the two oldest children actually adults now?

I like the idea of a buddy system for kids old enough to go to the grocery store, the mall, the movies, etc. You either go with a friend or with a brother/sister. But I think it's a little sad to teach your kids to be so afraid of the world around us that even as young adults, they dare not go out alone, in their own town!

However, I think this stems more from restricting too much "independence." The more that a young person interacts with the outside world, the greater the possibility of being drawn further and further into it and away from the belief system of the parents. Some parents accept this as a normal rite of passage; while others feel it should be discouraged strongly.

My parents were the former. They trusted in themselves to have raised us to the best of their ability, and once we became adults, our decisions were our own. We adult children are all over the spectrum in beliefs, lifestyles, etc. -- but we all retain a very close and loving bond with our parents.

I appreciate my parents so much for letting me gently learn my independence.

Been There said...

Does that mean that Erin takes someone along when she goes to class? Probably easily accepted at a conservative Christian school...

Not unless the tag along wrote a check to Crown College for tuition! No freebies there.

Joanna said...

That was Jana who went with Erin. Unless it was an idenical Jana "look-a-like".

I loved this episode. Great to see Zak and Michaela as volunteers with the fire deptartment and Erin going to college, conservative Christian or not. An article about the Bates from a couple of years ago said that Zak was taking online college classes. The Reith family just blew me away with their bluegrass music. Yes, in the south, upbeat bluegrass music is often danced too. It certainly makes me want to dance. Cute with Jordyn bopping her head to the music.

I've seen several mothers at our local skating rink pushing their babies in the stroller and I thought that would be a great thing to do with my chidren if I ever have any, in a firm, secure stroller of course, not a thin, tradional one. However, I was surprised seeing a little boy pushed Jordyn. I didn't think that was safe.

It's sad to me if a woman is pragent so often and dosen't have the freedom to do alot of physcial activites. I felt sorry for Michelle not getting to skate. I love children and can see mothers not doing it temparary while they are having children, but not to often for years. I want to "do everything" with my children, skating, ride bikes, play ball, jumping on the trampline, dance, raft, camping, go on rides with them. I want to be in the middle of the action with my own children like I am right now with children, not one of those adults on the sidelines just watching remembering the "good ole days" when they could do those things.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone notice when they were interviewing the older 4 Duggar Girls that Jana looked distraught. I can't come up with another word for it, she just looked so very sad.

Kat said...

Don't think the buddy system is intended for protection, at least not really in the physical danger sense. I think it's more in the nature of chaperoning each other, and ensuring that no one is ever alone in a situation where s/he might be tempted to behave contrary to the family's beliefs. Also, as I think I heard stated elsewhere, as a "proof" that you haven't misbehaved.

pumpkin said...

Zak, Michaela, and Erin are over 18. And Lawson will be soon.

kidznpupz said...

I also was surprised when I heard the two oldest Bates children say they nevr went anywhere alone because of "accountability" I think is the word they used. I have two daughters in their middle twenties. When they reached college age and young adulthood I basically let them make their own decisions (unless they were thinking of doing something obviously dangerous or risky - which fortunately neither of them ever did)
I raised them with the best values I could and taught them all I could about life but it was time for them to make their own way in the world and make their own decisions. That included whether or not to attend church.
I believe the Bates need to have confidence in their children - that they have done their best to instill values instead of naking the world into a feaful anf evil place to be avoided. God created us all with all our many beliefs and we all have to learn how to make our way in the world.

Willow #1 said...

Regarding Kat's posting - my question is: Do the boys also have to have chaperones at all times? I wonder if it is intended to protect the girls and their reputation, etc. However, I have to say that even if it seems a little extreme to most of us, I have to admit that safety is definitely a good thing. I can't blame them for erring on the side of safety, even if it may have a down side.

DianeD said...

Why do Josh and Anna have the need to continue to tag along on these trips, with infant in tow? They showed them in the beginning of the episode when they got off the bus at the Bates house, but that was it. I can't imagine the stress of taking care of an infant in a partially-finished house filled with 40 children + many adults.

Kat said...

Another take on dancing:
http://bit.ly/7ohCxK

Apparently it is not just human babies (Jordyn) that think some music is just made for moving! Guess I'll just have to agree to disagree with the Duggars on this topic...LOL...

Gaby said...

"Did anyone notice when they were interviewing the older 4 Duggar Girls that Jana looked distraught. I can't come up with another word for it, she just looked so very sad."

Yes ive noticed that too! I've seen Jana looked distraught many times. Jinger always seems to have an angry look on her face all the time. I often wonder if both girls are happy in this family.

Anonymous said...

Pumpkin - I believe it's Nathan Bates who is almost 18 (behind Zak, Michaeleh and Erin) instead of Lawson. I could be wrong.

Kat said...

Why do Josh and Anna have the need to continue to tag along...

My guesses would be because:
1) TLC tells them to,
2) they hate being left at home just (not) selling cars,
3) both of the above

Josh loves the limelight as much as his daddy. I imagine sitting in that car lot office every day is driving him nuts.

pumpkin said...

This is the article that lists the age of the Bates' children.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/nov/24/faith-purpose-and-perseverance-are-key-for-family/?printer=1/

Keep in mind it was written in Nov. 2008, so everyone has aged a year.

MartinMamma said...

I guess it's just me but when I see the two eldest Bates kids with the newest baby I find it creepy beyond belief. It was as if THEY were the parents of the child

*********************************

Thank you!! I honestly thought they were a couple living at home with his parents and their baby. Seriously. The way they act together really is creepy. It wasn't until the end of the episode when Kelly said something about the girl being her daughter that I realized how must those two look exactly alike. Still, though, it was creepy. And you are not alone.

Somebody's Nana said...

I can't for the life of me figure out why people feel it's creepy when big brothers/sisters love their new sibling!

What a sad world we are coming to when that happens. Family loving family is supposed to be a good thing.

MartinMamma said...

I never said it was creepy that they love their siblings and I don't believe the other poster was either. It's the way they were interacting, the way they were sitting together. I honestly believed the older two were married and holding their own child. Having the baby in the picture really just made the older two seem like they we married. I'm sure if more people had such a range of children it wouldn't have seemed like that, but the truth is, most don't. When we see a young woman holding a child, we assume it's her child and not her sibling, because it usually is.

I have nothing against them being close. In fact, I think it's sweet. I'll admit I find it a bit odd, but that's because I never had any siblings so I honestly have no idea what it's like. And I have always found sibling relationships odd because of that reason, so it's not just them.

I think it's wonderful when siblings love each other. My partner and one of his sisters are extremely close. They go to each other for everything. I don't think I know anyone as close as those two, even couples. They went through a lot together and because they are the same age, it was easier for them to help each other.

Marybeth said...

Josh and Anna got to know each other after meeting through email and over the phone...they aren't kept away from each other...it's not that bad!

They do teach their children to listen to G-d and to follow G-d's guidance, but the Torah, or Bible also tells us to listen to our parents, so no, it's not a contradiction to talk to our parents about it. So Josh going to his father to discuss his feelings over Anna wasn't a contradiction when he felt G-d was leading him in that direction.

As for courtship being an arranged marriage. No, not exactly. I say that because I am in an arranged marrriage and it wasn't courtship. Arranged marriage is where it's completely given over to someone else to match you up and you trust them to find you a mate and you believe that who you'll be matched with will be someone you'll be compatible with and grow to love after marriage. Courtship is a form of dating after the fact. You get engaged and then date. Josh and Anna weren't kept from one another and were allowed to speak to each other--they wrote each other and talked on the phone. Their families also visited each other often, especially after Josh indicated that he wanted to marry Anna--and Anna indicated to her parents that she wanted to marry Josh. (If you remember that they both spoke to their parents seperately.)

I too wondered what happened to the Holts, especially after they were talked about being old friends from high school with JB. I thought maybe they moved away, or didn't want to be featured on TV regularly (since they were just on one of the 1 hr specials.) I also thought that I noticed Josh and one of the daughters "flirting" if you can call it that. And Michelle did seem to speak of "interest" between "our children." So I'm sure that's what she was talking about, since many of you are referring to Josh and a Holt daughter. That is probably why the Holts are noticably absent from the show now. That's too bad, if it was meant to be it would have been--afterall, back then he was only 16!!!

I am glad to see Erin in college, one that supports their values. That's a good sign that maybe a Duggar daughter will go. I too want to see a Duggar/Bates marriage--although no one has mentioned a Duggar/Wilson marriage?

Anonymous said...

What a great family for living their lives the way they believe is right. I only wish I had a similar upbringing. The chaperones are a great idea and I wish my parents had done the same. It would save many heartaches through the years. This is an amazing family. I have just became aware of them and started watching them. I may not agree with everything they believe but I firmly believe they are on the right track.

MamaWama said...

I just want to say I love that Mr. Wilson. He reminds me of Mr.Edwards from Little House on the Prairie.

Willow #1 said...

I agree Marybeth. I think we overlooked the Wilsons and I saw a really cute Wilson boy standing around the construction site wearing sun glasses at the first remodel episode. At least I think it was a Wilson. It could have been a Bates. Oh well, I am not advocating for young marriage, just think it is fun to speculate. I wish them all the best of luck as they grow up and find their way in the world. I think everyone is WAY to hard on Josh and Anna. They are from big families and probably just enjoy everyone's company. I agree, however, that leaving the car lot must mean they are getting enough dollars from TLC. I don't see a problem. There are so many Duggars/Bates/Wilsons/Kellers, etc., etc., that the camera time is spread around, right ?

Somebody's Nana said...

MartinMamma said: I never said it was creepy that they love their siblings and I don't believe the other poster was either. It's the way they were interacting, the way they were sitting together. I honestly believed the older two were married and holding their own child. Having the baby in the picture really just made the older two seem like they we married.

I misunderstood your point. Thank you for clarifying it. I'm still not sure I agree with you, but that's okay. :)

pumpkin said...

I just want to say I love that Mr. Wilson. He reminds me of Mr.Edwards from Little House on the Prairie.

______

Mamawama, I couldn't agree more! He is just precious and so incredibly resourceful.


I think the older Wilson boys would make a good match for the Bates and/or Duggar girls. Although I am a firm believer in waiting awhile until you get married, I think it would be fun to have another Duggar wedding soon. Jana and John David will be twenty next month.

Cyn said...

I am glad to see Erin in college, one that supports their values. That's a good sign that maybe a Duggar daughter will go. I too want to see a Duggar/Bates marriage--although no one has mentioned a Duggar/Wilson marriage?
************************************

She's not IN college, she's taking a few music theory classes so she can be a better piano teacher. That college happened to fit with their views and was close enough. If they could have found her a nice Christian lady to teach the same advanced things they would have done that as well.

Kaekae said...

2. Regarding the family playing the bluegrass family on the porch. The young lady said, "we only play bluegrass music that is pleasing to the Lord".

I don't understand what she means by that. What type of bluegrass music is there that is NOT pleasing to the Lord ? Is there "Nike" bluegrass music? Are there pornographic bluegrass lyrics? To me, her comment implies that maybe the Lord doesn't love people who enjoy Frank Sinatra? Michael Buble? jazz, Garth Brooks, Kermit the Frog singing "it's not easy being green"?
Seems incredibly judgemental for this group of people who keep insisting they do everything for "the Lord".


"Little Brown Jug" came to mind and there are other bluegrass songs featuring liquor or whatever. They were simply stating that they don't play those type of songs. It has nothing to do with Kermit or the rest listed- None of which (to my knowledge) are bluegrass musicians. They may or may not like/play certain types of music but I don't believe they were implying that God hates Kermit and people who like Kermit. :D

Kaekae said...

Is it just me or was there very little designing on "Designing Duggars"?

Somebody's Nana said...

Cyn said:She's not IN college, she's taking a few music theory classes so she can be a better piano teacher.

However, that's the way many people start college - one class at a time. It's how I did/do it. I can't afford it any other way, even with loans. Perhaps that is the biggest obstacle to the Duggars attending college - cost. Private Christian schools are not cheap.

Anonymous said...

>Perhaps that is the biggest obstacle to the Duggars attending college - cost. Private Christian schools are not cheap.

JB should rethink his stance on the Jim Sammons plan of no debt.
While I understand the concept of not ever paying more than you have to (i.e.-interest),there are some things that are completely worth investing in,such as your child's college education.Student loans are generally low interest loans that can be paid back over time.Not to mention any scholarships or grants or work study they might be eligible for.You don't know if you don't look into it.
I get the feeling JB is going to be in a position of having many young adults on his hands in just a few short yrs,who have no real furthered education and no real marketable job skills.What on earth is he going to do then? He needs to start transitioning them into the real world now!
I have 2 kids in college,so please don't start on the old 'college may not help them get a job' thing.It depends on what they major in.If they majored in something like nursing,or criminal justice,etc,I'm sure they could find a position.

Somebody's Nana said...

Anonymous said: While I understand the concept of not ever paying more than you have to (i.e.-interest),there are some things that are completely worth investing in,such as your child's college education.

I couldn't agree more. We no sooner paid off the loans for two daughers (our share) when I started back to school. However, I was pointing things out from the Duggars' perspective.

im.in.PR@gmail.com said...

Private Christian schools are not cheap.

Pensacola Christian College is pretty cheap and they are all for modesty.

Anonymous said...

The Duggars are earning enough money to fund college, particularly community college (which is very inexpensive) while they live at home.

There is a conscious choice for the kids NOT to attend college, and cost is not the reason.

Cyn said...

4 out of the 18 are currently 'graduated' and old enough to attend. 2 of those 4 already have businesses. Maybe the ones that have graduated simply do NOT want to attend college... Should they be forced to go JUST to make fans happy?

Any math geniuses around that can do the stats for kids that graduated High School or get their GED and THEN go on to college? IE should the average end up being 1/18? 2/18? 5/18 what?

My mother came from a family of 8, 1 went to college... (it wasn't her) she had 4 children 1 of us went to college... So can anyone figure out what the national average is and then break it down for this family?

Anonymous said...

Re: So can anyone figure out what the national average is and then break it down for this family?


I'd say 0/19 of the kids have been to college so far.factor in the parents and it's 0/21.

No seriously,I don't know the stats,are you looking for the national average,or the average in the state of Ark? I would think one or both of the parents being college grads would influence the kids as well.(whether they realize it or not).Again I think that would be something to factor in.

But I think what most of us forget is...the show IS their career,for now anyway.It may very well be in the contract (and probably is,to some extent)that they need to be readily available to film..all of them.Just because josh got married doesn't mean there isn't still some sort of deal with them.TLC was leaning on the fact he would still be nearby and they would still be able to film him and he would probably have a family of his own (which he just did) for them to film.Send the kids off to college,and it could get tricky,depending on where they go.They would have the duty of sticking to a school schedule and having to film around that as well..something they don't have to worry about at home.(Just something to think about...).
My hope is that JB is socking away a portion of the TLC earnings for each child,and they will be able to use it to further their education.That is my hope,anyway.