Free Discussion February 2010

Please use this for Duggar sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, or personal stories. If you wish to discuss other TLC shows, please visit TLCwithoutpity.blogspot.com. Thank you!

528 comments:

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Jess C said...

I watched the show tonight and I was actually very pleasantly surprised by how they handled Josie's birth. I was fairly angry about the people article, because it seems somewhat self righteous and strange, but the show itself was done pretty well. I do think that it was a little much, showing her birth, her first moments in the incubator, and the family seeing her the first time. That should have been a private series of moments for this family, it just seemed a little much for America to see, especially from a family that is supposed to be so "modest".

And poor Anna! Watching all of those little children, as well as her own! I felt so bad for her, and WOW Jordyn has grown so much!

Anyway, I am hoping in this new season they do less traveling and focus more on the kids and their interests, especially the older ones, and I'm truly hoping for a courtship for Jana/John David. I'd like to see more of the Bates, and their home! (Did they ever show the finished product of the expansion?)

I just have mixed feelings about this family, on one hand I want to say so many negative things about the changes and questionable choices they have made since first being featured on TLC, but on the other hand, this particular show made me feel sympathetic toward them. The silence in the room when they all saw Josie was heartbreaking.

I just hope this season focuses more on the kids individually and aims to answer a lot of the questions we have.

Kat said...

Hmmm, ok, so cameras were in the delivery room, and Michelle's bare stomach was shown, and a naked Josie was shown, and cameras were all over the NICU room. So much for the modesty rule.

Also, while I'm glad all the Duggars got to see Josie, what happened to the hospital's visitors rules?

"By placing each baby in a private room, we can reduce stress during this vulnerable time by controlling the noise level and physical stimuli." Hmm, guess cameras, film lights, and the camera crew are all invisible and silent.

"•Children younger than 4 years old are not allowed in the maternal and infant areas of the hospital."

"Limit the number of visitors to two in the room at one time."

There must be special "Duggar rules" - kinda like "Duggar time."

Judy said...

I commented on the 1/31 show thread, but what I found most interesting is that Michelle didn't know the sex of her baby at 24 weeks. Usually finding out the gender of the baby is top on their list and seems to happen right away. This time they didn't know very far into the pregnancy. I wondered why.

Anonymous said...

This is probably going to come out wrong- but here goes: Is everyone white in Arkansas?

Peter said...

People should remember that this is TLC and people watch this channel so they can see the birth, first moments, hospital scenes...

I also hope that more time is spent on the oldest 4 children still at the house and less on Josh/Anna and Jim/Michelle. I'm just a lot more curious about John, Jana, Jessa and Jinger, and how they are adapting to their lives as adults. I would love to know more about their love lives, but don't expect the family to share that type of detail. I am very curious about their future plans and would like to see more of their continuing education, employment searches, and their thoughts and feelings about what is next in their young adult lives...

Looking forward to the next episdoe and hopefully more from Jana.

Enough with the Multiples said...

Since much has been already discussed about the hospital filming, I wanted to see what everyone thought about the scenes at home.

I was particuarly struck by how the little ones drag each other across hard tile floor and hang from the side of the stair rails. Poor Grandma and Anna as well for having to control all this chaos. While I'm sure Grandma Duggar loves her grandchildren and Anna is happy to help out I feel bad for them that all this has been put on them and I wonder if Michelle truely appreciates what the are doing for her....will she someday return the favor? While I realize that this is good practice for Anna if her and Josh continue the no BC lifestyle, still seems that Michelle is a grandmother now and it's time for her to stop having babies and start helping with her grandchildren.

I also can't help but wonder why the Duggars didn't include a toddler playroom in the origional plans for the house. The older kids seem to have that game room in the back but after last nights epiosode it seemed pretty clear that they need a soft carpeted playroom with no stairs and plenty of toddler toys to keep the little ones entertained and playing a little less rough. It seems like you always see them running around in the background but never many toys to play with.

Anonymous said...

I like and admire the Duggars, but I don't want to be them. They have made a life style choice that seems to be right for them. I think they have extremely bright and well-behaved children. The younger children were not quite as well behaved with mom and dad in Little Rock and the older siblings on a mission trip, but they were just being kids. I enjoy watching them, and hope that Josie will be all right. I also hope that Michelle and Jim Bob re-think their "baby" philosophy after this close call. God may be sending them a message.

Danielle said...

Do you know if/when the Josie birth episode is going to be on youtube?

Shame on TLC and J/M said...

I thought that it was so intrusive to have the cameras filming such a private time for the Duggars. Obviously Jim Bob and Michelle don't mind one bit because they gave their consent. I have to wonder what is in wrong with Jim Bob going on and on about Baby Josie. That poor child was on a ventilator and was struggling to breath. I almost died when I saw the huge Duggar bus drive up to the hospital was if they were going to another scenic area.

Anonymous said...

I thought the lack of modesty was a disgrace. It again points to the family hypocrisy. I really didn't want to see Michelle's belly, the C-section, or a naked Josie. I didn't want to see all the kids in the NICU, or their reactions. These are private moments that should be kept private, particularly for a so-called "modest" family.

Stephanie said...

Just my two cents: many folks who have preemies or babies that may not survive capture the moment with videos and even professional photographers. That way if the worst does happen, they have those memories recorded. I'm hoping Josie will thrive and when she grows up they can show her how far she's come!
I like that the Duggars show the world how they react when things aren't going well. You could really tell how much the Duggar kids love their new little sister.

CappuccinoLife said...

"I wanted to see what everyone thought about the scenes at home.

I was particuarly struck by how the little ones drag each other across hard tile floor and hang from the side of the stair rails."

I love the home scenes because they are so much like ours that they make me laugh. Especially Johanna.

Our kids are rough and tumble. We don't allow deliberate injury of others, of course. And dangerous activities are corrected (and that little girl was taken down and corrected as soon as she was spotted). But in the course of playing with each other, and having tons of fun, they might make some quieter people cringe, I suppose.

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
This is probably going to come out wrong- but here goes: Is everyone white in Arkansas?"

According to a population overview website that I found, Arkansas is much "whiter" than the US on average.

The US Overall percentage of people who identify as "white" is 65%, whereas Arkansas is 76%.

Mascot said...

Stephanie I agree that some "home videos" for memory sake might be in place but to film the whole ordeal with a crew and light for all the world to see is a bit much. That is just my opinion. I think that ol Jim Bob has an agenda. But yes I do agree with you on how the Duggar siblings are very genuine in their love and concern for baby Josi.

Deanna said...

Do the Duggars even own a high chair? Why was Anna feeding a baby lying down, just like Michelle did? It is so unsafe to do that!

I think the younger children's behavior is really beyond unruly. It is downright unsafe. It isn't "kids being kids and having fun", but kids with not enough to do running amok. I don't see age appropriate toys for the toddlers and preschoolers (where is a little plastic kitchen, dolls, dressup, art supplies, etc). The kids run around the house like it is a gymnasium.

Personally, I fear that one of them is going to get seriously hurt (but I have worried about that for months, with pregnant Michelle on ladders, pushing buses, etc). No one is supervising the kids, and they do not have enough to do that is structured. Of course, unstructured time is good for imaginative play, etc., but we never, ever see the kids doing this. One saw the G children doing a LOT of imaginative play, with a lot of age appropriate toys. And safety was of great concern to their mother than to Michelle or the four teen mothers.

What I said...

I agree with Jess C: I would like to see more of the older Duggar children and what they are up to in this new season.

Also to Jess: I found a picture of the Bates' home here: Birthday with the Bates from StaddonFamily.com

They are expecting their 18th: The Bates Family: 18th on the way also from StaddonFamily.com

I'd like to see more of the Bates, too; but I hope they do not get on TLC like the Duggars. I would not want another family to make 'questionable choices' like the Duggars.

Thanks, Jess for posting. Exactly my thoughts!

Anonymous said...

I watched the Josie special and I must say that although it was done in pretty good taste, I think the seriousness of Josie's very premature birth and all the complications that may arise were fluffed over. I know the family is very happy that both Josie and Michelle survived the birth but it just seems the only one that recognized, more or less, that there may be a long road ahead was Josh. I don't know maybe it's me, but the whole show seemed off kilter to me. Also, they made such a big deal about the name change to 19 and Counting. Well, God forbid, if something happens to Josie what do they do then? Change it back? Also, according to their People interview, it seems to me that JB & M are not finished by any means. IMO, I think at the least they want to reach the big 2-0.

Jane in California said...

I didn't watch the episode, but thank those that did for sharing their opinions and thoughts about it. I am uncomfortable with knowing that the birth of baby Josie was filmed. I would have no problem with Dad JB filming this with a home camcorder, as a precious family memory. But to have a film crew and the lighting, etc., needed for a professional film crew, filming this potentially life threatening situation, leaves me with a slightly queasy feeling.

What if Michelle or the baby had died in the process? Would TLC have shown that footage, or up to just before it all went terribly wrong?

It is clear the Duggars get special treatment, when I hear that numerous family members were allowed in at one time to view the baby. I find it interesting that the Duggars clearly believe they are above the rules that everyone else must follow. JB and Michelle truly feel they deserve special rules and special treatment.

I've said before how I feel badly for the older girls, having to basically raise their younger siblings. I'm also feeling a lot of pity for Grandma Duggar. Before her husband passed away, the two of them had their own home, she came and helped out now and again, but she had her own life, a much quieter life I'm sure.

Now she's like an on-call unpaid nanny. I wonder if her finances wouldn't allow her to remain in her own home and that's why she moved in with JB and Michele -- but honestly, after living in your own home, peace and quiet, able to retreat when you wish -- it might be a bit much for Grandma Duggar to be recalled to active duty at her age.

Anonymous said...

I have to chime in on the whole Duggars bending the rules of the NICU by so many of them being in there. When my dad was in ICU they told us to go in 2 at a time. We did not abide by that rule. All 11 of us went in. The nurses cautioned us to be quiet. They did not have a problem with the amount of people being in there as long as we didn't disturb my dad or any of the other patients. I don't see what the big deal is. Obviously it was not detrimental to baby Josie or any other patient.

And about the filming of the birth not being modest and someone said it should have been private. Isn't that for each family to decide? Apparently the Duggars do not mind sharing their expeniences with the world.

Deanna said...

Why is it "defrauding" or "NIKE" for a woman to wear shorts, but not to see Mrs. Duggar's bare stomach and insides, or the bare bottom of her preemie newborn daughter?

The Duggars may feel that it is their right to have these private moments filmed and broadcast to America, but we have every bit as much of a right to call hypocrisy on their supposed modesty.

Ohio Buckeye said...

I can't get past J'ichelle's reply to the question, 'will you have more children?'

At this juncture, JMO, anything but a flat-out 'no, we think we've covered that gamut and plan to devote the rest of our parental time to our 19 children' is irresponsible.

Surely the drs have shared with JB&M information on Josie's prognosis. Surely JB&M have some comprehension that, in all likelihood, little Josie is going to require LOTS of specialized care for at least an extended period of time, quite possibly this need will be permanent.

Even considering throwing caution to the wind by refusing to use birth control seems wildly inappropriate to me because if yet another baby is conceived, WHO will care for Josie's special needs? If 'mommy is the new baby's buddy,' to whom will Josie's care fall?

CappuccinoLife said...

"Why is it "defrauding" or "NIKE" for a woman to wear shorts, but not to see Mrs. Duggar's bare stomach and insides, or the bare bottom of her preemie newborn daughter?"

Possibly because innards and baby bottoms aren't considered by general society to be "sexy" or sexually attractive?

Anonymous said...

I certainly understand having home movies of the birth the key word being home.

I think it was actually quite odd that Jim Bob was so careful to cover Michelle's stomache during the ultra sound yet the c-section showing her open stomach and baby being pulled out of her was shown.

Deanna said...

I would never allow my stomach or baby's bottom to be seen, even in a photo album, much less on national TV.

Remember when Michelle had her stomach covered with a shield for the prior ultrasounds, and Jim Bob's explanation that their family was very modest and didn't show skin, or something like that? Well, how did they go from THAT degree of modesty, to showing an actual C-section of a 25 week infant, that could have died in birth?

And why would they think showing the naked baby was ok? THey are supposed to be a modest family, and a baby's genitals should not be exploited, especially by a modest family.

I am not modest by Duggar standards, but would never allow either of those things.

Jane in California said...

Anonymous said:
When my dad was in ICU they told us to go in 2 at a time. We did not abide by that rule. All 11 of us went in
* * *

Why didn't your family feel the need to abide by the hospital rules?

The rules are in place for an important purpose.

Just because you and the Duggars seem to think that these rules are mere suggestions, doesn't make it okay, most especially in a neonatal unit with some very fragile lives hanging in the balance.

As a family member of a patient in ICU, if I saw any large group trooping in, in complete contravention to the hospital rules, it would make me unhappy and I would complain to the nursing station and the hospital admin about it.

It's so odd to me that people of conservative religious beliefs, with so many little rules and regulations, are so casual about the rules and regulations of others. It's very disrespectful.

Anonymous said...

"Why is it "defrauding" or "NIKE" for a woman to wear shorts, but not to see Mrs. Duggar's bare stomach and insides, or the bare bottom of her preemie newborn daughter?"

Possibly because innards and baby bottoms aren't considered by general society to be "sexy" or sexually attractive?
___________________________________

Something doesn't have to be "sexy" to be immodest. Modesty is about keeping private things private. There's nothing sexy about my 80-year-old grandma, but that doesn't mean it's okay for her to walk around naked.

Imagine how little Josie will feel when she's 16, knowing that her parents allowed her naked body to be filmed and aired on national TV. Personally, I would be mortified and furious.

-Emily

Ohio Buckeye said...

Jane in California said, "It's so odd to me that people of conservative religious beliefs, with so many little rules and regulations, are so casual about the rules and regulations of others. It's very disrespectful."

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Sing it, Sister Jane! You've just said it so much better than I.

How could all the non-important things (unattractive, unstylish hair, long skirts, etc.) possibly matter more than having the arrogance and sense of entitlement to agree to a photo shoot in a NICU where, not just YOUR baby is struggling to survive, but many others (and their suffering parents) are up against the same odds?

JMO, but these people give 'being christian' a bad name because they lose the forest (sensitivity and acceptance toward others) in all the trees (abstinence from dance, drink, birth control).

They may believe they are 'spreading god's word,' but they are singing only to their already-established choir. Many of the rest of us are completely turned off with their version of 'being christian'.

Anonymous said...

"Just because you and the Duggars seem to think that these rules are mere suggestions,..."


The hospital in Little Rock has private NICU suites. The Duggars were not breaking any rules.

reality bites said...

When my mom was alive we'd visit her for a couple of days. She loved her grandchildren, but I saw the look of relief on her face when we bundled up and left. I thought the same thing about Grandma Duggar. My mom was a widow also and grieved hard for my dad. I'm sure she loves those kids, but I hope they don't take advantage of her. She needs some tender loving care and peace at this place and time in her life. She seems very nice, but too quiet and accepting of whatever Jim Bob wants. I'm only fifty and I can't wait to be a grandma someday, but I'll love when they go home, too.

Bubbles said...

I don't think Jim Bob and Michelle will see Josie's birth as a message to stop having children. Based on what their stated beliefs are, they believe God will not allow Michelle to become pregnant when it is time for her to stop having children.

Why do people keep questioning what will happen to the title of the show if Josie didn't survive? Of course it will still be 19 Kids & Counting. They wouldn't drop it down a number if something happened to one of the older children. Michelle has given birth to 19 kids, it's an irreversible fact. Dropping down a number would seem like they were trying to erase the child's existence. In Michelle's heart, she probably considers herself a mother of 20, because she probably considers her miscarried child as one, even though it wasn't a viable pregnancy, but society norms don't typically count miscarried children as they do stillborn children or children who pass away after birth.

I am fairly certain there was not a camera "crew" there for most of the hospital scenes. JimBob was definitely taping a lot himself. And as for the "rule breaking," there are always exceptions, even when people aren't on TV. I bet that was the only time they were all allowed in and even then it was for about 5 min max. Either the People article or the Today show said only the children over 18 are being allowed to visit. If I had a micro preemie I would ask for an exception for my other 4 children to be allowed to visit just once.

Anonymous said...

There are just some people in this world that do not think the rules apply to them and I think the Duggars are one of them.

They wanted to break the rules at the Biltmore Mansion and have everyone go under the rope so they could have their large family photographed around the table. They are above rules, because they are special.

Anonymous said...

In regards to the Duggars being in the NICU, and supposedly "breaking rules" maybe this will clear things up:


"The siblings visited Josie shortly after her birth at University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences in Little Rock, Ark. But when Josie perforated her bowel at eight days old, the micropreemie was rushed to Arkansas Children's Hospital, which the Duggars say has a policy preventing children under the age of 18 from entering the ICU unit."

People magazine.

Nancy said...

Jane in CA - thank you for your post. I think it is shocking that people feel comfortable flouting the rules that govern an ICU (or NICU). The Duggars would probably be very unhappy if they found out that the athiest in the next room was allowed to bring in 20 people who might possibly infect their baby. Showing Michelle's stomache, the c-section, that sweet baby. Arghhhh. My agnostic, not modest heart almost is at a stop from the sheer inappropriateness of it all.
In the past I enjoyed watching and debating. I will NOT watch again. I think they are worse than the Gosselins.

Midwest Mom said...

Maybe, just maybe, one of those Duggar children, after viewing premature Josie in the NICU, will be motivated to leave Duggarville and pursue a medical career be it a nurse, doctor, respiratory therapist, physical therapist, whatever.

Anything is better than discontinuing your education after the School of the Dining Room Table ends.

Oh, I find nothing "cute" or "laughable" about the younger Duggars dragging each other around on the tile floor and hanging from the stairs while the parents are away. Bad behavior is bad behavior. I doubt that's the first time they've done it.

CappuccinoLife said...

"Something doesn't have to be "sexy" to be immodest. Modesty is about keeping private things private. There's nothing sexy about my 80-year-old grandma, but that doesn't mean it's okay for her to walk around naked. "

I don't disagree with you. ;)

Just explaining why I think they'd make the differentiation. Their ideas about modesty seem to only focus on sexual modesty and what they wear/what they look at in that regard. I'm not at all surprised to see a c-section view or a naked baby because the Duggar's seem to be rather "earthy" when it comes to the facts of life, and how open they are about them.

Jane in California said...

Anonymous at 5:11 p.m.said...

The hospital in Little Rock has private NICU suites. The Duggars were not breaking any rules.
* * *

From the hospital's own website:
"Visiting hours for persons other than parents/guardians and clergy are 9 AM - 9 PM. Children are welcome to visit, unless a physician order indicates otherwise. All children under the age of 18 must be accompanied by an adult. No more than two people (excluding parents and children under 12) are allowed with each patient in his/her room or at bedside."

So, if all of the Duggar siblings visited at once, they clearly did not follow the hospital rule. I know they have a lot of children under 12, but there are certainly more than two of the children who are over the age of 12.

The rule says "his/her room" which I presume would include a private suite. Boy, who is footing the bill for that private suite? TLC?

Keri said...

Possibly because innards and baby bottoms aren't considered by general society to be "sexy" or sexually attractive?


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

They are to pedophiles and when your show is on national television you have to assume some are tuning in. Especially when your older daughters get marriage proposals from creepy old men all across the country.

Modesty aside, a little common sense would be nice.

Can't See Sheep said...

Nancy said...

Jane in CA - thank you for your post. I think it is shocking that people feel comfortable flouting the rules that govern an ICU (or NICU).
-----------------

I don't get where they think they can ignore the rules. As several have said & I agree, they're there for a reason. they're not arbitrary, a suggestion or a guideline. Numerous times, including this make me think of Ms. Gosselin who behaves often like the rules don't apply to her. I've known large families, so I know they don't all wander around thinking that the rules don't apply to them, but I am wondering about "reality" show families.

Kat said...

Bubbles said "I am fairly certain there was not a camera "crew" there for most of the hospital scenes. JimBob was definitely taping a lot himself. And as for the "rule breaking," there are always exceptions, even when people aren't on TV. I bet that was the only time they were all allowed in and even then it was for about 5 min max."

Wow, you sure seem to "know" a lot about the event. Are you an insider? Do you work for TLC? Because it's pretty evident to me that there WAS a camera crew in the operating room, because they were filming Josie on the warming table while JB was still sitting with Michelle. As I recall, he said that after they got her cleaned up, he got to go look at her. And all the shots where he was beside Michelle's bed, or walking into the delivery room, make it pretty clear the camera crew was there, unless JB has learned how to levitate and operate a TV-quality camera (and lights, and sound boom) remotely.

As for how long the Duggar kids stayed in Josie's room (with the camera rolling and lights shining) - unless you were there, how would you know? Could have been 5 minutes, could have been 30, could have been all day.

As for the rule breaking, don't even get me started. I have spent way more time than I ever want anyone else to even have to think about in NICUs and pediatric units, and the thought of that many people milling around, with toddlers and infants, no less, just raises some big hackles. Even assuming UAMS was willing to let everyone come in, how hard would it have been to do it 2 at a time? Except then TLC wouldn't have gotten their "money shot."

Bleah. I wish Josie well, but I don't give a hoot about this family any more. Let them descend into the same obscurity that has thankfully enveloped the Gosselins.

Anonymous said...

Usually I think they are no worse behaved than most kids, but one of the little boys walked across the dining room table last night!

doggie said...

hopefully they won't get to the point of filming the next dugger getting made. now that would be very gross. though I am sure jim bob would crow like a rooster.

Celestie said...

I don't see what the big deal is. Obviously it was not detrimental to baby Josie or any other patient.

Seems to me, one of the little girls had a runny nose, which I wanted to reach through the TV and wipe, because no one else was doing so, That runny nose could have been a cold or flu that she carried into the hospital and spread germs. Those germs could have been pick up by nurses and other people who care for all the preemies. Once again, the selfishness of the Duggars puts others in harms way.

Anonymous said...

We have no way of knowing if the film shoot was detrimental to Josie or to any of the other infants or not.

Celestie said...

I've felt for Grandma Duggar since the death of her husband. It didn't seem like she was given time for mourning her husband, before she was set to work as another pair of baby raising hands.

I really feel so sorry for little Jordyn, Jennifer and the Josoemthing. None of them seemed to be attached to Michelle, none of them reached for her, as a normal child would, after an hour, day, or week without their mama. She never said, I want to see my babies, she only said she knew they were being watched and went back to kissing JB.

And lastly, did it bother anyone else that Josh said he was in charge, or the boss of the house? Don't recall the exact words. Wouldn't that be the venue of Grandma Duggar and not a 20 year old?

Anonymous said...

IMO yelling NIKE about anyone who doesn't dress the same way the Duggars do is completely RUDE and disrespectful.Although I think they see it as more of a game than anything else,they still should be taught to be tolerant and respectful of others,just as they expect others to be tolerant and resepctful of them.After all,it is THEY who are different!!
Aside from being a rude game,it appears to be a way for them to snub the outside world.

Anonymous said...

Michelle should move over and let her kids and grandkids be in the limelight. Getting pregnant right before little MacKinzie was born, gave the air of, "I will not be upstaged by my daughter-in-law." If she conceives another still, she will show that her need for attention is far more important to her than Josie's/other kid's needs.
Having 6 kids ages 8-25 myself, I don't have the time to keep having more. One has karate,one has scouts, one is sick, one is sad, one needs new shoes, one wants to talk and talk, etc. What are James' individual needs, Joseph's, Jessa's, Justin's? I just don't see how she could possibly have time to care.

Anonymous said...

What we know is that the Duggars broke NICU policy, not just at any old NICU, but at the very NICU their sick, micropreemie was in.

It's like when Jim Bob asked if they could take a photograph around the huge cordoned off table at the Biltmore mansion. Earth to Jim Bob----a cordoned off table means NO, you can't take a picture there, even though you have produced more children than many animals produce in litters. Rules are rules...except to the Duggars.

I also would have been furious if I had a preemie in one of the other private NICU rooms, and that huge family with infants and drippy nosed toddlers came traipsing in. How could they not think of anyone but themselves and their formerly adoring viewing public?

Geez, I hope these people get off the air soon. Their sense of entitlement is baffling.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, no big deal to have that many visitors in a NICU (with so many underdeveloped organ systems including immune and respiratory) in this day and age of MRSA and H1N1 (i personally know a child with compromised respiratory system who died from this) Jeebus. People common sense here. Even if they were willing to risk it for their own daughter, why risk it for all other micropremies there. And the film crew was most certainly there.

The hypocrisy (with the false immodesty) of this family just continues to baffle. Modesty and humility. That smug JB preening. And the false hypocrisy... God willing...she's a miracle. No it's science and medicine JB and Michelle that have allowed your daughter to live outside of your womb Michelle, without them she would most definitely not have survived. If only you could see that. It's wonderful advancement in medical technology/science and Medical intervention that is responsible for sustaining her life here. And hopefully she will continue to grow and develop because of it. It's science and medicine that you used (the same science you shun) to determine
there was a problem and most likely saved your and your daughter's life Michelle...you too JB. No what you should be doing instead is thanking God that there are people out there that have a different belief system than you and don't shun science and medicine.

It's the hypocrisy stupid.

winsomeone said...

"Usually I think they are no worse behaved than most kids, but one of the little boys walked across the dining room table last night!"

This whole last year, the little boys' behavior has seemed bad..remember the wedding dress show? I get the impression that the older girls (mere females) are not allowed to correct the boys very much, as they are being groomed to be masters of their own homes..little "Gods," and above reproach.

Enough with the Multiples said...

Deanna said...
I think the younger children's behavior is really beyond unruly. It is downright unsafe. It isn't "kids being kids and having fun", but kids with not enough to do running amok. I don't see age appropriate toys for the toddlers and preschoolers (where is a little plastic kitchen, dolls, dressup, art supplies, etc). The kids run around the house like it is a gymnasium.
_____________________________

This is exactly what I was thinking too. The younger kids need structured play time with toddler toys. The stairs, cabinents, and tile floors are not toys or playground equiptment. And letting them run wild just makes it more difficult for Grandma D and Anna when they have to step in.

And why do the little kids take naps in their big sister's beds???

Again, this seems like a time/place where a playroom off the great room and kitchen area would have been a smart choice. There could have been french doors to see through that could be pulled shut. The little kids could nap there on mats or sleeping bags like in preschool while the adult prepared lunch or assisted the school age kids with lessons.

snow said...

Peter said...
snipped I'm just a lot more curious about John, Jana, Jessa and Jinger,.... and I am very curious about their future plans and would like to see more of their continuing education, employment searches, and their thoughts and feelings about what is next in their young adult lives...
____________
How many people does it take to run a used car lot?

Also i suspect the older girls will have to home to help with the dozen or so children under age 12

wondering said...

I wonder how TLC pays this family.

Is it one lump sum to the Dugger family?

Is each child paid separately and money placed in trust?

What about when the child turns 18 are they getting what they earned for the last few years?

Are there laws about filming minors, or is this still a "documentary" like the gosselins?

reality bites said...

I wanted to note that Josh and Anna's website is up and running again. Under the heading "Find True Purpose" is where they say that being a good person will not get you into heaven. Someone challenged me on this yesterday and I wanted to point that out. I'm not starting a religious war, really I'm not. I simply wanted to point out that to find true purpose in life, according to Josh, one can only find it the Duggar way.

Mascot said...

Anonynmous said:
Usually I think they are no worse behaved then other kids,but one of the little boys walked across the dining room table last night.
***********************************

I agree! It is obvious that this child who walked across the table had been allowed to do that before.

Then we saw Johanna I believe dangling from the staircase and other kids always sitting on the kitchen with their shoes and street clothes.

Did you also see how filthy one of the little girls feet bottoms were?

shard1118 said...

I consider myself pretty neutral in regards to the Duggar’s. There are times I scratch my head about their lifestyle, and there are times I admire them. I will say, to me they seem like a happy bunch of well adjusted people with the best of intentions, even if I don’t agree with some of the decisions they make; but it is their family, not mine. That being said, TLC would not continue to broadcast the show if people were not interested. I’m a very casual 18 Kids and Counting Show viewer, but I find myself interested in their life.
I believe that the viewer most often see’s the happy chaos that such a large family brings. TLC of course is now putting them into interesting “situations” such as Minor League Baseball games, and Dollywood…whatever, I believe it’s more interesting to watch the everyday activities; how they manage to balance their life with such a big family, more about the kids, schools, friends and activities.
As far as the “special delivery episode”; this episode showed, in my opinion, the vulnerability, deep concern for life and death that really, this family, hasn’t experienced, at least not for the benefit of the television viewer. Yes, the elder Mr. Duggar was sick, and passed away, but that is an expected course of life, having a baby whether it was your first or 19th, at 25 weeks is definitely a crisis for any family.
I think the Duggar’s, whatever their motivation is for showing the viewers this family crisis, became to me, more relatable, and more human by showing and expressing their real fear and uncertainty.
If the show just skipped over this very real portion of their lives, or they showed Jim Bob and Michelle acting all smiling and unconcerned, I would have a hard time buying it.

I say, will that episode “hook more viewers”? Probably. But I think for the people that watch the show faithfully, or casually it was necessary to address this birth.

We can debate until the cows come home all the issues surrounding the show, or this family’s lifestyle, but for now, whatever your position about the Duggar’s and the show, lets hope for the best for this little soul, and may the Duggar’s find comfort and support in the arms of each other.

Mascot said...

Celestie said,

Did it bother anyone else that Josh said that he was in charge,or the boss of the house? Wouldn't that be the venue of Grandma Duggar and not a 20 year old?
*************************************
Not if the man is taught to be superior. Looks like that is what the Duggar females are taught.

CappuccinoLife said...

" I simply wanted to point out that to find true purpose in life, according to Josh, one can only find it the Duggar way"

Are you *sure* they're saying that "true purpose" is *only* through living life exactly like the Duggars? As in, the practicalities of how their beliefs work out? no birth control, homeschooling, dresses-only, etc?

The reason I'm picking on this is that I have not gotten the impression from them that because I listen to reggae and let my children dance to it, I'm going to hell. ;)

I understand their Jesus-is-the-only way beliefs--that's not exclusive to them. But it doesn't make sense to say they don't believe "being good" gets anyone to heaven, but at the same time say they believe that everyone must act and live exactly like them to get into heaven. Those are completely contradictory, and I've never seen any reason to believe that the second is true of the Duggars. Josh and Anna's "true purpose" reads like any conservative evangelical explanation of salvation would read. It doesn't say anything about doing things "the Duggar way" to get into heaven. You may disagree with their theology, but believing that Jesus is the only way to heaven is not a Duggar thing. It's a majority Christian belief.

Anonymous said...

I simply wanted to point out that to find true purpose in life, according to Josh, one can only find it the Duggar way.

It's rather disingenuous to claim that what billions of Christians have believed since the time of Christ is now "Josh's way."

Anonymous said...

"Yeah, no big deal to have that many visitors in a NICU (with so many underdeveloped organ systems including immune and respiratory) in this day and age of MRSA and H1N1 (i personally know a child with compromised respiratory system who died from this)"

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

The hospital Joise was in at the time allowed family visits in the private NICU suite she was in.

Anonymous said...

What we know is that the Duggars broke NICU policy, not just at any old NICU, but at the very NICU their sick, micropreemie was in.

They did not break any rules. At the hospital where Josie was born, they had private NICU suites and family visits are allowed.

At the hospital she is at now, only visitors over 18 are allowed.

Anonymous said...

And lastly, did it bother anyone else that Josh said he was in charge, or the boss of the house? Don't recall the exact words. Wouldn't that be the venue of Grandma Duggar and not a 20 year old?

I thought Josh was almost 22. His birthday is March 22.
And if you ask me, he should have been in charge a little bit more and taken some of those younger boys to task for acting like idiots.

Anne said...

I have searched for this answer, Do the Duggars wear Pajamas? Everytime I had seen the kids getting up from bed they are in clothes, like the boys are wearing jeans and polos in bed. Is that just because the cameras are on them for modesty? or are they not allowed to wear pajamas? or can JimBob just not find enough pjs at the thrift store so he can't buy used and save the difference. I would think buying pjs would be the most expensive part of their clothes budget. You can always find decent used pants/skirts/top but used pjs that are in decent shape, especially if you need almost 100 pairs (19 kids, 5 pairs each) after hard to find.

Anonymous said...

I expect all those getting up in the morning shots are basically re-enactments. Do we think the kids really all sleep through the crew setting up and doing lighting and sound checks?

another RN said...

I agree with so many of the recent comments-it's kind of a relief!

I totally agree that the NIKE game is offensive. I never really thought of it that way, but now that it was mentioned, I agree. What if I were to say NIKE to my son when someone in Mennonite garb passed by? It is calling out someone's differences, which is hurtful. I personally believe this type of behavior is at the root of many exclusionary behaviors in the history of our society. You cannot call someone an ethnic epithet, so why can someone's dress be called out? Very disappointing.

As a healthcare provider, I am appalled by the NICU situation. One of the younger girls had a runny nose. Who's to say that it isn't RSV? RSV can be fatal for preemies. Not to mention, the older kids just got back from El Salvador. The microbes and parasites there are very different than what the kids would have immunity to here. Very risky IMO. I do not think the hospital should have bent the rules. If you flex for one family, you have to do it for all. Fairness is one thing, but safety is my concern. I believe that was very poorly handled by all involved.

I also agree that the kids are poorly behaved and that the house should be more kid friendly. I recall an episode where I believe Hannie was climbing on the indoor play gym rock wall. There was a huge window right behind her. What if she fell into the window? That could be tragic.

Josh always gets on my nerves, so I can't be objective there at all. I never have agreed on someone taking leadership based on birth order or gender, so I can't even listen to what he says because he acts so entitled all the time. As a woman, I just have no patience for that.

I felt for the kids seeing Josie for the first time. This may sound awful, but I cried myself to sleep many nights when I found out my mother was pregnant AGAIN. I wonder how many different emotions were behind those tears-both positive and negative.

Sending healing and growing thoughts to baby Josie!

reality bites said...

it doesn't make sense to say they don't believe "being good" gets anyone to heaven, but at the same time say they believe that everyone must act and live exactly like them to get into heaven. Those are completely contradictory, and I've never seen any reason to believe that the second is true of the Duggars.
*********
I must be slightly slow cuz I read this five times and still don't understand it.
Anyway, I'm pretty simple in my thought process and don't read between the lines. I read their website and there is no doubt in my mind they are saying to live a purposeful life one must live as they do. They also state, as fact, that being good in this life will not get you into heaven. They then list the ways how to go about it. I'm not going to get into the religous part and the heavenly part, but I think I live a pretty purposeful life and I don't live, think or act at all like the Duggars and kinda resent the fact that they, and others, feel they are an inspiration to America. They're not. They're actually kinda creepy.

Suz said...

Question about buddies...the older girls are "assigned" a younger girl to care for/protect, if I'm understanding this right (I don't watch enough to know all the specifics). Does this include everything a mom would do - bathe, diaper, feed, play with, care for when ill, reprimand?

Also, do the older boys get assigned a younger boy to buddy? Same deal? Diaper, bathe, feed?

And when does one get to buddy themselves, as in they don't need supervising?

reality bites said...

It's rather disingenuous to claim that what billions of Christians have believed since the time of Christ is now "Josh's way."

*******
I'll say it again, not all Christians believe the same way, and it's disingenuous to think so. I'm a Christian and I don't relate to the Duggars AT ALL. There are thousands of different Christian churches all saying something different. I worked with a woman who called me a Jezabel for wearing make-up and nail polish. The Duggars wear make-up and nail polish. Some Christians would consider that sinfull behavior. For them to "preach," and they do preach, if you listen to their little asides about why their way is the best, is bothersome to a lot of people because we feel we are living purposeful lives without their witnessing. I know I don't have to watch and I usually don't, but preaching is preaching...

Anonymous said...

Hey Anonymous @ 10:55 and then the next post...you seem to know an aweful lot about Josie's hospital. Hmmmm interesting. I hpe you don't mind, but why not reveal why and how you know all this. It might be helpful for those of us in the medical profession who are just using common sense and trying to figure out how this could be based on common practices they've witnessed firsthand in their jobs.

You still don't get it though. It doesn't matter if it's a private suite or not, they still exposed a high risk micropremie, with all her underdeveloped organ systems and hugely compromised respiratory function and immune systems to all the germs from the cameramen, the kids etc. For that family shoot...No one was gowned up, no one had on face masks...no one. In the high risk teaching hospital where I live, they actually stopped allowing any visitors that weren't mother/father into the pediatric icu's and nicu's (not even any sibling) due to concerns of swine flu and MRSA.

That's what this is about....keeping her safe...how this was allowed is beyond my comprehension....private suite or not...that is what I am trying to get my brain wrapped around on this issue.

Anyway, I still hope she continues to grow and develop...and wish her the very best. She's not out of the woods by any stretch of the imagination, but it sounds like she's made some nice progress thankfully with the help of all that wonderful medical intervention and medical staff. Good for her.

Sandra said...

wondering said...

I wonder how TLC pays this family.

Is it one lump sum to the Dugger family?

Is each child paid separately and money placed in trust?

What about when the child turns 18 are they getting what they earned for the last few years?

Are there laws about filming minors, or is this still a "documentary" like the gosselins?

2/02/2010 6:56 AM
_______________

I believe this question was asked before concerning the 'other' family. If I recall, someone with professional knowledge said that reality kids are NOT considered actors, therefore are NOT paid. The family is paid as a WHOLE, and it is up to the parents to set up individual accts for the kids, if they so desire. (I bet there are NO accts set up for the kids' futures).

CappuccinoLife said...

"I read their website and there is no doubt in my mind they are saying to live a purposeful life one must live as they do. They also state, as fact, that being good in this life will not get you into heaven. "

Their list: confession, repentance, accepting Jesus. Nothing to do with how the Duggar's live their day to day life. These are not lifestyle things. They're the standard evangelical explanation of how salvation occurs, not "the Duggar's way".

If you and I are looking at the same page, and you are reading that their idea of salvation includes homeschooling, no birth control, etc. then you actually are reading between the lines because all that is simply not there. ;)

I don't want a religious war either. ;) I do think it's important to be fair, though. It's one thing to disagree with a person's theology. I'm sure lots of people here disagree with the Duggar's theology, and I certainly have differences of opinion with them in some areas. But it is another thing to put words in thier mouth in order to disagree with them.

another RN said...

Like anonymous at 1:14, I work for a university teaching hospital. If Josie's first hospital does indeed allow so many visitors in their family suites, I believe that would be a severe violation of best practice guidelines for reducing nosocomial infections. There are huge gov't and regulatory mandates regarding hospital acquired infections and comorbidities. There are national standards for infection protection and I am hard pressed to believe they would allow it, especially considering how VERY early Josie was born. They may allow some, but the amount allowed to accommodate the show and the Dugs (who are once again acting entitled to special treatment-what makes them so special?) was like nothing I have ever seen, even in an adult ICU.

On the other hand, perhaps the policy allowing siblings did not account for such a large amount of brothers and sisters...still risky!

Ohio Buckeye said...

@Suz: I'd like to add one more to your list of 'buddy' questions: hoping that little Josie makes it, who will be her 'buddy' once J'ichelle brings home #20?

Sadly, it's not at all unlikely that Josie may suffer long term, possibly even permanent, physical challenges - if/when J'ichelle brings yet another baby into the picture, who will provide all the specialized treatment that Josie may require?

Celestie said...

I wonder how TLC pays this family.

Is it one lump sum to the Dugger family?

Is each child paid separately and money placed in trust?

-----
TLC lists the cast as JimBob and Michelle Duggar. The money must go to them. I'm guessing, JB doesn't want any of the kids to have any funds of their own. They might pick up and leave if they had a nest egg. Got to keep Grandma in the house too, no funds for her.
Josh as the leader, scares me to death. Wonder if he would take responsibility if one of those kids fell from the banister? Or would it be god's will? Even if he is almost 22, he is still a man child and doesn't know the ways of the world yet. Grandma is older and wiser and certainly knows how easily a child can be hurt in a nano second. I didn't see him wiping noses or changing diapers. Or even getting the little boys out for some physical activity.

Can't See Sheep said...

Anonymous @ 1:14 PM said...
That's what this is about....keeping her safe...how this was allowed is beyond my comprehension....private suite or not...that is what I am trying to get my brain wrapped around on this issue.
--------------------------------

Me too. I don't see why it should matter if it was a private suite or not, doors do not stop germs & I'm tired of seeing people posting like they do. If it was that easy all we'd have to do is go home & lock the door. Yes it's a bit better that they're not all in one room or something like that, however, germs still spread & doors do not stop them.

another RN said...
Josh always gets on my nerves, so I can't be objective there at all. I never have agreed on someone taking leadership based on birth order or gender, so I can't even listen to what he says because he acts so entitled all the time. As a woman, I just have no patience for that.
-----------------------------------

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one he drives up the wall. All I can think of is a little rooster trying to crow & doesn't even have his adult feathers yet. He's still very much a boy to me, I find it frightening that he's a father & a husband, because he seems so immature & well, I certainly would not have allowed a child of mine marry him, he needs a good deal more life experience before he starts making decisions for others. Some kids can come out of being sheltered & make the right choices, but Josh, no, his ego seems to be way out of step. I don't like the smarmy know-it-all sense I get from him.

Cyn said...

Can some one explain to me how having the children in the room with the baby in the ISOLETTE and CLOSED up exposed her to any more germs that if Michelle had gone home and cuddled up with her other children then came back to the hospital to do the skin to skin therapy?

Do they make the visitor take a total decon shower or just wash their hands.

It being the Duggars and the SIZE of the family (not the notoriety) They were probably (do not KNOW this) placed on a corner or near an elevator simply for LOGISTICS. They wouldn't want the family parading up and down the halls every time they came to visit.

Same reason they were allowed to bring them all in at ONCE. LOGISTICS ... Had there been rules about the AMOUNT of visitors they would have been bent simply because it's simpler and more expedient to bring in 20 people for a total of say 5 min, than to spend 2 hours or more bringing in 2 at a time for a 5-10 min visit those leave, find where the others have been waiting, then the next set can head in.... and where do you put the other 18 people while they are waiting their turn?

How do we KNOW the Duggars ASKED to have them all in at one time. Maybe the hospital envisioning the mess I described above and came to THEM and said look lets bring them all in at once and then after that you break them into smaller groups or only bring the older ones back (vs the toddlers and babies).

My speculation as to how and why it happened it just as valid as saying Jimbob and TLC forced the hospital to let them all in so they could get 'their money shot'. NONE of us KNOW and it's all speculation.

Anonymous said...

Annonymous said: "And the false hypocrisy... God willing...she's a miracle. No it's science and medicine JB and Michelle that have allowed your daughter to live outside of your womb Michelle, without them she would most definitely not have survived. If only you could see that. It's wonderful advancement in medical technology/science and Medical intervention that is responsible for sustaining her life here. And hopefully she will continue to grow and develop because of it. It's science and medicine that you used (the same science you shun) to determine
there was a problem and most likely saved your and your daughter's life Michelle...you too JB. No what you should be doing instead is thanking God that there are people out there that have a different belief system than you and don't shun science and medicine."

Ok, so when did the Duggars say they didn't believe in medicine? Am I missing something. In the People article JB clearly says that years ago Josie would have died because the technology wouldn't have been there to save her! On the show, Michelle and Anna see a OB/GYN, they take the children to an orthodotist for oral surgery, and I think one of the children had a surgery (pre-show days) to correct a birth defect. So how is that not believeing in science and medicine?

The Duggars can give God the glory for Josie, believe she is a miracle, and still use and believe in medicine and science. Christians give God the glory for people being healed through medicine all the time.

I know the Ds don't believe in evolution and believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old. So do a lot of fundamentalist Christians. They believe in the rest of science. And they don't believe in birth control. They don't say it's wrong to use bc, it's just not for them.

Amanda said...

Josh and John David saved a girls life today...She was in an accident outside the car lot and they pulled her from the car and did cpr until the emts arrived.

I'm looking for a link on the local tv stations

Ohio Buckeye said...

Can't See Sheep said, ".. but Josh, no, his ego seems to be way out of step. I don't like the smarmy know-it-all sense I get from him."
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

The analogy of "a little rooster trying to crow, but doesn't have his feathers yet..." was right on target.

Josh seems relatively clueless about life and seems to know only how to mimic his dad, who, IMO, also struts around the henhouse, puffing out his chest and crowing all the time, "I AM THE PATRIARCH!".

Spare me men like this and the women who tolerate (and, amazingly, sometimes even encourage) this behavior.

Cyn said...

Re Josh Claiming to be in charge:

Every oldest child I have ever met or know has said this at some point or another. Boy or Girl 5 or 35 never mattered. Granted at 35 they were usually playing and not at all serious about it, I think Josh was half playing half serious.

He IS the oldest and, was asked by his parents along with his wife to come take care of the smaller ones while the older Duggars were either in El Salvador OR in the Hospital. That would put him "in charge" along with Anna and Grandma.

Cyn said...

Re buddies:
Each child BOY or GIRL becomes a buddy when they are 8. Several of the older BOYS and GIRLS have 2-3 buddies and some of those buddies now have buddies of their own.

Case in point and outlined in their book. When Jennifer came along she had THREE older buddies. James, Joy and Jill. James had 2 buddies and so forth.

Btw the Buddies ACTUAL jobs are:

To make sure each buddy has dressed them selves or dress them depending on the ages.

Entertain them

Buckle them in and out of carseats

HELP with bath time (not GIVE them their bathes but HELP)

Playing with their hair, and picking out the outfits.

Making sure the buddies that have chore packs have done them.

Sure sounds like those buddies are raising their siblings..... notice the sarcasm.

Now if they want to do MORE than that they certainly CAN but that's what the actual responsibilities of a buddy are.

BTW here's an example of 1 of the 5 chores these kids do:

Put your Pj's up. The card breaks it down for them:

1) Neatly fold your PJ's
2) Place them neatly in your drawer, remember to close the drawer.
3) After you wear them 3 nights place them in the dirty laundry basket.

Now granted the OLDER ones have a bit more complicated chores to do, but again EACH buddy helps each OTHER. That is the point to the system.

Take cleaning a bathroom, one would take out the garbage, one would clean the mirrors, one would do the tub, normal sized bathroom done in 20 min or less.

After meals they ALL Boys and Girls help with clean up, some gathering, some washing, some drying and some putting away. Again something HUGE and daunting is done in less time than it would take one mom after feeding a family of 4.

Anonymous said...

Hmmmm interesting. I hpe you don't mind, but why not reveal why and how you know all this.

It was in People Magazine.

another RN said...

Cyn said...Can some one explain to me how having the children in the room with the baby in the ISOLETTE and CLOSED up exposed her to any more germs that if Michelle had gone home and cuddled up with her other children then came back to the hospital to do the skin to skin therapy?

Do they make the visitor take a total decon shower or just wash their hands.

*****************************

Sure, I can explain it very easily. Patients in hospitals, even those in isolettes and isolation get hospital acquired infections all the time. There is currently a HUGE mandate by Medicare and Joint Commission in an attempt to prevent these infections, both because of cost and increased mortality and morbidity.

Everyone of those kids walked through the hospital. Those floors, no matter how often they are cleaned, have been walked on by patients, visitors and staff that have been in other patient rooms and care areas. Everyone of those kids is now potentially contaminated. A person breathing puts moist breathe into the air. Everyone one of us carries microbes, some good, some bad, some good only when in the right amount. That baby is not fully protected all the time. Many of those microbes live on the surfaces in that room, including on the isolette. Some of the bacteria and viruses die, some stick around for months (Hep B for example). Some are VERY resistant. Hospitals crawl with resistant microbes. It is at absolute crisis level in the hospital. It is far worse than the general public is aware of.

In many NICU and visiting areas for the immunocompromised, visitors are required to perform a surgical scrub, where a body substance isolation gown, and a mask. The staff generally wear street clothes to work, and then change into hospital supplied scrubs and shoe covers. I am appalled by what I saw. I have never ever seen that many people in a NICU room, let alone without protection. Their shoes and breathing alone could pose harm. (Let alone the fact that many of them just came back from a 3rd world country!)

I went to nursing school nearly 20 years ago. This is old news. This is why I get so upset that the Dugs are on TV. IMO, they are very influential. Taking any religious convictions out of the debate, they frequently give out flat out wrong information. I believe that TLC is should pose a disclaimer on the site regarding health care, reproduction, finance and nutrition. These people are not experts and their education is very basic at the most.

Ohio Buckeye said...

@Kat: I DO like the fact that kids in a family are expected to help out in some ways. Not sure about the whole Duggar 'buddy' system, but I appreciate that the Duggar kids have to help out with some chores.

reality bites said...

I believe this question was asked before concerning the 'other' family. If I recall, someone with professional knowledge said that reality kids are NOT considered actors, therefore are NOT paid. The family is paid as a WHOLE, and it is up to the parents to set up individual accts for the kids, if they so desire. (I bet there are NO accts set up for the kids' futures).
***********
This truly, I mean truly breaks my heart. We are talking about children here. Innocent kids who need a mommy and a daddy with them all the time. Not staff, not lighting techs, not camermen and sound technicians. Also being dragged all over the country. As my name implies, I think all reality shows bite. I think they are the scourge of this decade and hopefully will go away as did disco and big hair and the poor kids exposed in them and working in them, will be mentally able to live on as normal adults. We shouldn't be concerned if Jana gets a job, or courts. It's weird. My teen wants and craves her privacy. What teen doesn't? They are strangers to us. Shame on Michelle and Jim Bob to expose these darling children to strangers, and pedophiles.
I have not seen or watched one reality show that is true. Not one. They are all smoke and mirrors and scripted and I feel anyone who would expose their family to this type of voyerism (sp?)is mentally unstable and obviously missing something in their life that they need this type of attention.
My children are my entire world and I hate when anyone even stares at them too long at a store. I wrap my arm around them and walk away. They are adopted from foreign countries and look nothing like me or my hubby, (sorry Bill Gothard, it workded for us,)so we get the looks, and let me tell you it's uncomfortable at times. My kids hate when rude people stare at us. And the questions from people, don't even get me started. Why in the world would you ASK for that, except money. They could do their witnessing and inspiring like normal folks. God knows there are enough of them. I wish those kids could find moms and dads who would give them the cuddles and kisses and privacy in a real home, not a set, they deserve that much. Poor little things. ps. They are getting more and more unruly and that shows bad, or no parental control. It's out of hand. Also, my children suffered from attachment issues, being handed off from person to person for care, never bonding with any one in particular while in the orphange. I'm convinced the Duggar kids will have to deal with those issues, too. I've read up on it, so I know how to work with it and deal. I hope they are studying up on it and notice the signs. It can be very damaging if left alone. There is no doubt those younger ones will be dealing with more issues than just being fodder for America's prying, nosy eyes.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad to here Josh and John David saved someone's life! While Josh isn't perfect, he isn't evil either as some people depict him to be. It's nice that he's had the chance to show that he is a caring responsible adult since many people seem to think he isn't.

Kelli said...

I am not a Josh fan but did you hear the genuine concern in his voice when he spoke to Michelle?
He also called her mommie which I thought was vert sweet. But what I didn't think was to bright was when Jim Bob handed the phone to Michelle just shortly after she had a c-section preformed on her. Dang JB give the poor woman a break.

another RN said...

Reality bites...you said it all so well and so poignantly. Best wishes.

Anonymous said...

Local news story link:

http://www.4029tv.com/video/22416253/index.html

Cyn said...

Though Very informative again did not answer the question I asked. What is the difference in MICHELLE cuddling up with the sick child at home then coming to the hospital to do the SKIN to SKIN therapy. there are no gowns, or protection?

They make them wash their hands, and gown up, but then when doing skin to skin (as in the photos on the people mag)the germs are then free to migrate or not.

Michelle after being with the older children could AGAIN bring those same germs (foreign country) with her when she came back into see Josie OUT of the isolette. Or the older children themselves coming in one at a time could have done the SAME thing.

The HOSPITAL allowed it, the Duggars and TLC could have requested it, demanded it all they wanted and the HOSPITAL could have said no if they were as worried about the germs from all those kids in there at ONE time instead of coming in 2-3 at a time.

The Doctors and the nurses and the staff at THAT hospital made the decision while knowing ALL the facts (which we do not have) and decided it was fine to let that family in all at one time.

Jane in California said...

Thank you for your very informative post Another RN. As a member of the general public, I only know in general terms why it's so important that patients in ICU or NICU be protected and that the hospital rules are in place for an extremely important reason.

RealityBites - I loved your post as well. I became aware of the harm of involving children in reality tv shows through watching the fiasco that was Jon & Kate Plus 8. To me, it was borderline creepy the way some fans felt as if they knew the little kids, would send them birthday and Christmas presents, would even ask in e-mails if Kate or Jon would ask one of the tups to say hello to that viewer on a show! This demonstrates that many people can quite easily cross the line from mere viewer into something more intrusive and possibly dangerous (stalkers).

To wilfully expose your children to this is not only unwise, but I think is poor parenting. No matter the reason, your children and their lives should not be on national television. At most, an annual one hour show, if you feel you must.

This latest discussion we are having about whether it was safe or wise for JB and M to allow a camera crew, with related equipment and hot lights, into the delivery room to film the birth of their premature baby, and further whether all of the children (unmasked, unscrubbed) should have been allowed in the room to visit their latest sibling -- only demonstrates my point.

If there was no show, then no film crew to film this potentially life-threatening birth.

If no show, I think it's more likely the Duggars would have followed hospital regulations and limited the number of visitors, as everyone else is required to do.

If no show, then no strange creepy men e-mailing JB with offers of marriage for his young daughters. Words cannot describe how horrified I would be as a parent, to know that lecherous men and worse were perving on my daughters!

I have nothing against the Duggars and their religion. It is most definitely not inspiring to me, at best it seems quaint and outdated. At worst, it seems oppressive to women and wilfully turns a blind eye to some of our most serious problems (such as over population, global warming, etc.)

At the very least, I would hope that some congressional leaders would put forth a bill that requires that if a parent places their child on a reality show, then of whatever amount they are paid in total, an equal share must be placed in trust for each child involved, to be theirs when they turn 18 or 21, or whatever. There should also be strict limits on filming, similar to those laws that govern child actors. That alone will stop the worst of the abuses.

Ollie said...

What really gets me is that the Duggars brought all the little kids with them into the room to see Josie, I think Anna even had her baby with her! Little kids are especially full of germs because they touch their nose/mouth something like 20 times more an hour than adults do. (Johanna was even sucking on her fingers in the NICU room!) That means a lot more germs going in and out, which is part of the reason young children get sick so much. I know they wanted them all to see Josie, but I guess I don't get why they couldn't have looked at pictures or through a window or something. The hospital my cousin had her premie at wouldn't let anyone but mom, dad, and older siblings in to see baby and only if they were disease free and gowned. When we took the babies brother to see her we held him up to the viewing window that they wheeled her bassinet in front of. We still got to see her but it kept his, and our, germs away from her before she could fight them off. I realize that procedures will differ based on hospital or situation, but all those people in the room at once looked like a lack of common sense and/or medical knowledge to me. More than the Duggars or TLC, I think this decision makes the hospital look bad and perhaps even incompetent. At least I certainly wouldn't want my premie to be there.
I think it's wonderful that Josh and John David were able to help that girl. I do not agree with most (ok, almost all) of the things Bill Goatherd teaches, but I am one to think that some good can be found in/come out of almost everything and I'm glad both boys were able to participate in ALERT, which is probably where they learned first aid skills.

Kat said...

Cyn - Can only tell you what the UAMS' posted rules are, and what my experience has been.

By the way, was Josie in an isolette when the family was there? I thought she was in an open "warming bed."

"By placing each baby in a private room, we can reduce stress during this vulnerable time by controlling the noise level and physical stimuli."

"Children younger than 4 years old are not allowed in the maternal and infant areas of the hospital."

"Children 4 to 17 years of age are allowed to visit their mothers and baby brothers and sisters after passing a daily health screening. They may visit in the NICU for up to one hour a day and must wear masks and gowns when touching or holding a baby."

"Limit the number of visitors to two in the room at one time."

"Children are not allowed in the hallways or waiting rooms above the 1st floor. The Children's Area on the 1st floor of the hospital is suitable for children of all ages."

My experience with NICUs is that I had to scrub and don a clean gown and mask before each entrance (even if I just stepped out to take a call). If any skin to skin contact occured, I had to wash those areas as well. I had to avoid contact with anyone (even family members) with any illness. Now, that was several years ago, but from the looks of the rules above, not a whole lot has changed.

If UAMS set aside these rules for the Duggars/TLC, and especially if they received payment for it, shame on them.

another RN said...

Cyn said...

Though Very informative again did not answer the question I asked. What is the difference in MICHELLE cuddling up with the sick child at home then coming to the hospital to do the SKIN to SKIN therapy. there are no gowns, or protection?

***********************************

My apologies for not being more direct. Theoretically, if Michelle went home and came back, she SHOULD be required to scrub first. To answer your question and the situation you proposed, which is probably very likely; yes, Michelle could carry germs from the kids in, and in some respects the risk would be similar. However, having one mother carry germs, versus a room full of kids, their hands, mouths, noses, shoes and skin touching the floors and maybe the walls and other surfaces, is more of a risk. It's just a matter of numbers. The more exposures (people in the room, even at different times), the higher the risk. Hospitals limits visitors for several reasons, and infection risk in the immunocompromised is just one.

I do appreciate everyone trying to see all angles. However, in this instance I just saw too many violations in standard of care. I cannot defend TLC or the Duggars on this one. I think it was foolish.

reality bites said...

Jane in California said:
At the very least, I would hope that some congressional leaders would put forth a bill that requires that if a parent places their child on a reality show, then of whatever amount they are paid in total, an equal share must be placed in trust for each child involved, to be theirs when they turn 18 or 21, or whatever. There should also be strict limits on filming, similar to those laws that govern child actors. That alone will stop the worst of the abuses.
********
Well said. That is my hope exactly. There must be someone in a position to help these kids out. Obviously the parents don't have the sense to see what they are doing is wrong on so many levels. People tend to think these cameras are there for a limited time. They are not. They are there for however long they want to be. No one is regulating these shows. These kids are growing up on a television set.
My home is not big, and our furniture is not expensive, but our home is private and cozy. I have always believed a home is an oasis from the world. A santuary to regroup and relax. Where do these children go for that? Even their bedrooms are filmed. Even worse, they are filmed while they lay in bed, recovering from surgery while on pain meds. My kids would be mortified.
If my neighbor came over and told me to look in his windows and watch his kids lives, if I felt so inclined, I'd call social services on the guy.

generational habits said...

I'm agreeing with the thoughtful poster above...let's see more of the older children. Let's see what impact living in a family such as this has on them for their future. While I'm sure they've done plenty of diaper changing, cleaning, and cooking- what is the true impact for the oldest in this family?

TLC seems to have somehow forgotten, much like jb and m, what the true social impact is in having 19+ children. I'd love to see a psychological expose on what the oldest, and the forgotten ones in the middle really feel. Maybe that would educate people.

It's socially irresponsible to have this many children, imo. many reasons , but, really , how many couples do you know that might expect having 200 grandchildren,.. if each one of their children had half as many as they did? It is selfish to think they they can use up more of our earths resources than the average folk. (and i don't need a lecture on how they go to thrift shops)

Reality is that they won't know their grandchildren by sight, probably won't know their names, and will not ever establish a true bond with their grandchildren, just as they haven't with their children because there are too many of them.

Anonymous said...

When my grandchildren were in the NICU 5 years ago, only parents and grandparents were allowed in. At that, grandparents weren't allowed in unless the parents had given the staff a "standing order" that we could go in the NICU even if the parents weren't there at that time. Their rules also prohibited any of us if we didn't feel well or had recently been around anyone with illness.

Before going in the NICU, we had to remove our rings and watches (as they carry bacteria), scrub in, gown up, and then use Purell right before touching any of the babies. There were many precautions and we were all grateful for them.

As others have pointed out, the rules of the NICU vary from hospital to hospital, but seeing that many people in the room just blew me away. That would never have been allowed at my grandchildren's NICU. Amazing.

Anonymous said...

I have to say that I cried when I watched the news video about the car wreck. Thank you for posting that.

Jane in California said...

Since I've been chiming in on this show and in particular the recent birth of Josie being filmed, and all the family coming to visit NICU at one time, I thought I better watch at least part of the show. I did that tonight. I came in about midway, when Michelle was already hospitalized and her BP going dangerously high.

So I see that JB actually filmed himself talking to the camera when describing what was going on with Michele. So at least there didn't appear to be a camera crew present then. Perhaps he had to film short segments for TLC as part of their contract. Otherwise, I am hopeful that he could have cared less about filming even one second. I know when someone I love and care about deeply is seriously sick or ill, the last thing I would want is to talk to a camera about what's going on. I want to be with my loved one, all my focus entirely on willing them to be better.

For the birth, there had to be at least a TLC camera man present, and probably someone holding a boom mike. However, why was it deemed necessary to film any of that? As a society, we seem to have crossed the line and now feel it's entirely appropriate to make childbirth a public event. Especially with the knowledge that this birth is to save Michelle's life, and that the baby will be only 24 weeks old and face unknown difficulties -- couldn't TLC have let the Duggars deal with this situation in private?

I also paid attention to the younger children left at home. I cut them some slack because first of all, their routine is all shaken up. Mom and Dad gone, older siblings who take care of them gone, and Josh and Anna in the house, with a little baby of their own. So they got rambunctious. I think Josh needs to organize some good supervised outdoor time for those kids -- let Anna and the babies stay indoors, and he can enlist the help of Amy and some other friends to come take all the kids outside for a long, long hike, put them to work sweeping snow if they still have some on the ground, anything to give them a constructive way to burn off energy.

This is what I call Mom 101, basic common sense. Young'uns have energy to burn and need structure. Get a routine in place, make sure the children eat healthy choices, and then get them outside if possible to burn off energy for a good hour a day.

The behavior I saw were children practically calling out for attention. The hitting of siblings, dragging little sister along the floor, literally climbing the bannisters, wild and unacceptable behavior. I'm sorry to say it, but I do think this demonstrates Michelle's diminished parenting role. From seeing the very early episodes, the children were much more disciplined and respectful.

I won't say any more on the subject of the rules broken at the hospital by the Duggars, except that it was wrong of them to do so. Even the slightest risk of spreading germs to Josie or any of the other preemies should have been the most important priority, and it clearly was not. Shame on the hospital and JB for allowing it. There is plenty of time for the siblings to get to know their little sister when she is not so fragile.

Anonymous said...

The backlash against the Duggar hypocrisy is beginning to ramp up. They used to be given a pass, unlike that "other family", because they were so God loving and modest and conservative.

Well, the curtain has been drawn aside, and we see what the family is really like. They are not modest, they love money as much or more than the average American family (most of us would not sell out our privacy for money) and are not even as conservative as they led us to believe. It's all hypocrisy.

That's what happens when you give up your privacy for money. Suddenly, you are open to criticism.

Better to leave ones family OFF "reality tv". One day, I think those Duggar kids are going to so regret what their parents did for money.

Midwest Mom said...

If Josh was doing such a great job as Big-Brother-In-Charge, then why did Grandma "need a break" ?

Maybe because Josh isn't as great as he thinks he is ?

He said he'd been out of the house for more than a year.....well, how much could things have changed? Don't the Duggars tout themselves by the Almighty Schedule & Buddy System?

Could it be that those Angels aren't such Angels after all?

**Gasp** could it be that some of them actually have BEHAVIOR ISSUES ?

After some of the behavior I saw in the Sunday episode, I hope some of them were sent straight to the Prayer Closet for some serious meditation.

Sandra said...

As to how these people are paid: When the 'other' family had to disclose financial info, TLC is ON RECORD as saying it only paid the parents, and it was up to the parents if they wanted to compensate the kids out of that money.
Reality kids are not actors, therefore are NOT paid.
Jim Bob and Michelle get 100% of the money. Case closed.

Anonymous said...

Having just now watched the birth special, I was moved to tears several times. I love the Duggars. I see a loving family that truly tries to live their convictions. What I saw was a man who had fear of his wife or child dying. After the birth, Jim Bob became overly optimistic - probably for Michelle's sake. He was trying to reassure everyone that Josie was okay. I don't think he was in denial. I think he was relieved that Josie was born alive and was active. I don't care how many children they have, that little girl was wanted and loved by that family.


As far as the younger children behaving badly while at home without their parents and the older girls, well yeah, they're children. My children behave differently in the care of others and when the "status quo" is changed. They were not used to being with Anna & Josh. And when mine skip naptime they are super hyper and silly!

I also noticed that the older children where in El Salvador working. They weren't evangelizing. They looked to be doing some hard labor.

I thought the end shot with everyone gathered around Josie was amazing. Everyone was silent. Even the smaller children. It occured to me that maybe they allowed the family to see Josie "just in case". If she didn't make it, then they would have all seen her at least once. As far as some of the younger children being cautious of hugging Michelle, she was in a wheelchair and JB was warning them about not touching her stomach.

I glad the Duggars showed us this very emotional event in their lives.

Depends/Diapers on the Grocery List said...

I personally don't understand the idea of having as many kids as you can. There comes a time when you have to look at your OWN age and see how you will be able to raise a child to adulthood (I mean, who wants to be pushing a walker while chasing a toddler?, or buying depends and diapers??lol)

God gave us a brain-USE IT.


It's like they have a variation of the peter pan mentality...something is wrong, if they don't have a baby around....

Suz said...

@Cyn - thanks for the elucidation of the Duggar buddy system. Rather sounds like a job I had in high school, back in the day. We called the job "Mother's Helper" and I met 2 kids at their school bus stop, got them home, gave them a snack, helped with homework, and started dinner. Their mom got home from work at 6:30 and I was free to go home. I was always very glad for the weekends, so I didn't have to mind anyone but myself. Typical high school teen, I was.

I think it's great that the Duggar kids are so responsible and loving towards their buddies, but I wonder if they can earn any time off? For example, in my daugher's classroom, they do extra things to help the teacher to earn points and redeem a "homework pass" which exempts them from doing homework one night.

Does anyone know if something like that exists within the Duggar buddy system? Thanks.

reality bites said...

I remember watching the show where Jim Bob and Michelle went to the college to give a talk. Jim Bob mentioned that the cameras are not intrusive in their lives. They simply film what they would normally be doing. I don't want to call Jim Bob deceitfull, but I also saw the show where they went into a high end baby store and were buying an expensive new layette for Jordan, a child they thought might be their last. Michelle said Jim Bob was concerned because she was spending so much money. Were they paying for the layette or was TLC? He even whispered into her ear, (in front of the camera) "hey, remember buy used and save the difference." Why did they decide to go there? Why didn't they go to their thrift store if they were in such dire need of baby things? And why were they in such dire need of baby things since they just had a baby a year before and a year before that and...? Maybe because it was scripted? Did they just wake up one morning and decide to go to Kleinfelds and get Michelle a wedding dress in another state? Why, with a dress store that caters to Hasidic (sp?) Jews did they make such a big deal about a gown for modesty? Like they never heard of it before, even though the show Say Yes to the Dress featured a modest Jewish woman buying a gown there and them saying they have a section for that? Maybe because it was scripted? The whole Anna giving birth and was there a midwife or not, home birth at the last minute... scripted. (And no, giving birth is not scripted,) but everything else surrounding it was. These reality shows are not real, they are all fake, and deceitful!!!

Swissmiss said...

I continue to find Josh annoying and smug. He has a lot of growing up yet to do.

I agree with several others that the kids badly need a play room and toys. Having them hang from the staircase is scary, and I'm not even there! And the way they climb all over the kitchen is unsanitary.

CakeIsGreat said...

Did anyone here happen to see Dateline this past Sunday? Just so "coincidentally" 2hrs before the 19kinds premiere one of their main features was on the Arkansas Children's Hospital NICU (which is where Josie has been moved too.) On many levels I don't get this. Why is NBC taking sooo much interest in running deep with these TLC families? It's not like it's the only network they have ties too. Didn't they learn from all their support of the "other" family, it doesn't make them look good. Why do these hospitals seem inclined to break rules for filming these families? Isn't that really bad publicity for the people who apply logic and see they are trading patients for a buck?

Not to get off Duggar topic, but that's always been the thing that's bugged me about The Little Couple. I get showing Jenn at work is suppose to be an "inspiration" (I am personally impressed at her line of work), but isn't her camera crew being in her NICU putting all those babies at risk?

Every hospital I know of whether it was in a private room or ICU, had a visitor limit. There is just no way 20-30 people in that room (plus filming equipment) is considered OK. I've also read somewhere Josie is on C-Pap. Well, as a C-Pap user (sleep apnea related) I can offer up the first hand knowledge that if it is hot in the room, the machine blows out hot air... which, is pretty intolerable. I pre-cool off my room in the summer and make sure the heat doesn't come to high in the winter to prevent that. All those people + equipment in that small room sucking up the natural oxygen HAD to have made that room hot! Meaning, yes, they did effect her comfort level and health state for the time they were there.

They also say "hospitals are the best place to get sick", I have no idea why they'd bring MacKynzie, and even Jordyn, during such a time when contagious illnesses are such a concern. They were put at risk, too.

Anonymous said...

I would like to share an experience my family had several yearss ago in NICU that I was reminded of watching this show. I understand all of the health related concerns about the visitation of the family, but please hear me out.

My cousin's baby was in NICU and her prognosis was very uncertain. The doctors placed her into a provate room in an isolette and let any and all family and friends visit with her and the family. There were often several people at once in the room.

I have to wonder if Josie's condition may have been at that time very precarious and they were allowing the entire family to be together to not only see her for the first time but possibly the only time.

Long I know, but I wanted to share this as a possible alternative.

Mammy

Anonymous said...

I'm so glad I found this site! I'm a home care nurse and I ran into the Duggars along I-71 outside of Columbus, Ohio this summer. They were in/at a trucker rest stop/gas station. I'd never heard of them, found this site, and saw my first Duggar show last night. After reading this site, here is what I have to offer. Mind you I talked with Michelle and the older girls' for an hour and have only read this site.

*Those big girls' totally run the show. Michelle's only attention during that time was on her baby and myself. I actually thought the little kids were children of the older girls.

*They know they are famous. Here's the thing: they have nothing to compare 'famous' to. Are they as famous as Tom Cruise? They don't know. These kids do know they are on TV and that really is about it. The naivity of the older ones' is almost sad.

*Michelle is the sweetest mother I have ever met. She has so much comfort in her voice. However, she did not mother any of those children, except for the baby.

*This is a cult, make no doubt. Jim Bob Jones hands out the kool-aid and they all drink it. There was no free formed thought from one of them. They were all happy to answer questions, but EVERY answer had to have been rehearsed. It was to 'by the book'. Their allegience is to mom and dad. One of the boys, maybe 12?, asked Jim Bob if they were near the ocean yet and was told that Jim Bob could tell because of all the seagulls that they were close. What??!! No ocean in central Ohio.

*Their education, across the board, seemed very sub par. And I'm not confusing the accent. Most words were out of context.

*They do love the Lord and they seem to be doing well on the path they feel he's leading them on, so in closing, I have to think they know something I don't.

Jen

misty pig said...

Jane in California said...
snipped No matter the reason, your children and their lives should not be on national television. At most, an annual one hour show, if you feel you must.
___________
Great advice! In the past we have seen people who want to be a FAMILY FIRST do this and the annual hour special is just bonus mortgage or college money.

TLC found parents who either enjoy the spot light/attention or consider themselves star material

misty pig said...

I really really hope that the dugger kids, especially the older ones have separate funds set up for them.

I understand not giving a 18 yr old a large lump sum of money, but hopefully he or she will get chunks and have access when needed for college etc.

Cheetah said...

Anonymous said...
IMO yelling NIKE about anyone who doesn't dress the same way the Duggars do is completely RUDE and disrespectful.Although I think they see it as more of a game than anything else...

I see this differently. First of all, they don't say "Nike" for anyone who doesn't dress the same way they do; if they did, it would be all they ever say when away from home. It is only for scantilly clothed people (women only?) Secondly, they don't intend for the person to know what is happening. Their use of the code word "Nike" was meant to be discreet. Although now that they have explained it to the whole world, perhaps they should choose a different word or method. I don't think they see this as a game, but rather as a responsibility to limit the little boys' exposure. That being said, it would be better if they taught the boys to avert their eyes on their own, rather than at a warning from their sister.

Anonymous said...

Ollie said: I think it's wonderful that Josh and John David were able to help that girl.
@@@@@@

Yes, but didn't Josh & John David do exactly what any other citizen would have done in the same situation? Just because they are part of a "reality tv show" doesn't make what they did any more special. I am certified in CPR, can I be on the news ?

Kat said...

FYI - For those who have not been in a NICU before, when we say "scrub," it does not mean simply washing your hands with soap. There are special surgical scrub brushes and antibacterial cleansers used, and you first clean under your fingernails, then scrub from the elbows to fingertips for two minutes. It feels somewhat like scrubbing with a hard hairbrush. Do it 5-10 times day, and you feel like you have no skin left.

When we were in a hospital with the old "open floor" style of NICU, we could not even bring in purses and such. With a private room NICU, that was relaxed, but I did have to wipe down the outside of the purse with an antibacterial wipe.

In the open NICU, we had to wear the gown, booties, and mask at all times. Women (and men) with long hair were also asked to wear one of those surgical "shower caps." In the private room NICU, I could remove the mask once I was in my child's room.

Obvioulsy, things have changed since I was last there, or UAMS has a completely different set of rules.

Cyn said...

Anonymous said...

Ollie said: I think it's wonderful that Josh and John David were able to help that girl.
@@@@@@

Yes, but didn't Josh & John David do exactly what any other citizen would have done in the same situation? Just because they are part of a "reality tv show" doesn't make what they did any more special. I am certified in CPR, can I be on the news ?

2/03/2010 11:12 AM

If you save a life then you TOO would be on a LOCAL TV news blurb.

Now if the news goes NATIONAL then it's because of who they are not what they did. But so far (and it happened a week ago) it was only a LOCAL TV station. I assume they would have shown it had they NOT been a national celebrity simply because MY local TV stations do these types of blurbs all the time.. Don't yours?

Anonymous said...

I just watched the video of Josh's TV interview after he and John helped the little girl who was in the accident. He seemed very modest and downplayed his role as the one who saved her life. He didn't come across at all like the pompous Josh Duggar on reality tv.
I think this interview showed the real Josh, not the reality Josh.

Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

I thought Josh seemed more modest than usual.

My concern with the story is that Josh said he moved the little girl inside his dealership. Since it was likely unclear whether or not she had a head injury, spinal injury etc., the rule is always NOT to move an injured person, particularly someone who was clearly as seriously injured as little Maddye.

He could actually have caused her more damage by moving her than by simply calling 911 and letting the paramedics do their job.

reality bites said...

I thought the end shot with everyone gathered around Josie was amazing. Everyone was silent. Even the smaller children. It occured to me that maybe they allowed the family to see Josie "just in case". If she didn't make it, then they would have all seen her at least once. As far as some of the younger children being cautious of hugging Michelle, she was in a wheelchair and JB was warning them about not touching her stomach.

I glad the Duggars showed us this very emotional event in their lives.
*************
It's these type of comments that perpetuate the abuse of making these children live their lives for the world to gape at.
Sometimes I think I live in a different universe. To me, watching these extremely personal family moments should be illegal. As a matter of fact, my kids aren't even allowed to watch the show anymore and I feel like I need to take a shower after I do. How would you like it if I walked into your home, made myself comfortable and watched everything you did? The parents signed up for this, not those innocent children. So, for instance, even if you didn't agree to it, I simply walked into your bedroom while you were recovering from surgery and stared at you. Is that okay? It is the same thing as what the Duggars are doing to these poor kids. How many of you have teens? They crave privacy.
We have no right to be seeing all of this. I have tears in my eyes as I write this, because it is horrible that people think they have a right to know when Jana or John David are going to get married, or what Jill does during the day. It's none of our business. SHAME ON THE DUGGARS!!!
If any of you who love this show want me to come to your house to observe your private family moments please leave your address on this site. I'm sure people, especially pedophiles will be glad to oblige you. There's no difference from what the Duggars are doing to these kids.
Where are the laws to protect these kids???

pumpkin said...

The story of Josh and John David saving the little girl was on the front page of CNN.com today, so I would say it is now National News.

Ohio Buckeye said...

@Anonymous Jen 9:15 am: Wow. Just Wow. Absolutely what I would have expected and what has been suspected by many DWoP bloggers.

NO WONDER one of us here wrote to differentiate herself from the Duggars because she lives in Arkansas & did not want us to think everyone in Arkansas is like the Duggars.

I'm glad they're not my neighbors.

Ohio Buckeye said...

Diapers & Depends on the Grocery List: Loved your comment! Good points made in a LOL way. Thanks for that.

I'm still chuckling at the thought of trying to chase down toddlers hobbling behind my walker and each diaper change being a two-fer: my Depends and the toddler's diaper!

I agree: there is something wrong with this picture. And yes, brains are to be USED - enough with the 19 Kool Aid Kids.

Lauracat said...

I was appalled after observing filming of Josie's birth- what about germs, lights, noises, etc. plus so many vistors. Doesn't Josie need plenty of rest and to be as relaxed as possible as well as learn the loving touch of parents?

How do the Duggar justify no pants, shorts, etc. but then show us births. I'm no prude, but find the ways in which they define the concepts of "modesty", "on-time" and "child-safety" as the products of an over-developed sense of entitlement. Now with Josie, they will have to grow up and realize that HER needs will have to come before JB & M's or TLC's desires, e.g. roadtrips, filming, etc.

Shari said...

I admire Josh & John for helping to save that little girls life....as I would admire ANYONE who would help save someone's life. (And I think ANYONE in their position would have done the same thing.) What I DON'T admire about their actions, was how the SECOND thing John thought to do, was pull out his phone and video the situation.

It's a shame that it's now 2nd nature for the Duggars to capture anything & everything on film that TLC might need to use as footage. Everything seems to turn into publicity. I hope that little girls family doesn't give permission for TLC to exploit their daughter in a future episode by showing that footage in the name of ratings.

Ollie said...

Perhaps I should have phrased my statement differently, I am glad that someone/anyone was there with the proper training to help this young woman. I wish more people had up to date training in CPR/first aid in case of emergencies such as this.
Whether you would be on the local news or not would probably depend on whether you live in a large or small community and how slow of a news day it was. If you live in NYC and/or the president declares war on the day you do your heroics you probably won't make the broadcast. However, if you live in a small town on a regular day you will probably get a blurb on the local news.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

I agree the show was very well done last night concerning Josie's birth.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

"Shari said...
I admire Josh & John for helping to save that little girls life....as I would admire ANYONE who would help save someone's life. (And I think ANYONE in their position would have done the same thing.) What I DON'T admire about their actions, was how the SECOND thing John thought to do, was pull out his phone and video the situation. "

From the footage I saw on the phone video it was taken after the parmedics were there so Josh was free to take a video. I think it is wise to take a video with people sometimes suing others who try to help. This way they have a record of what was actually done. Smart move!

courtney.davis said...

Having had a baby in a NICU I know that the rules are a little different for NICUs. They usually let anyone come in with the parents as long as they are healthy and abide by the rules. I definitely don't think JB & Michelle should have anymore kids, but that is my opinion and they can do as they please. I also think that they are generally good Christians and seem pretty accepting of most people from all walks of life. I honestly enjoy watching the show even though I don't agree with everything they do.

another RN said...

I am really glad that little girl is OK. Really, I am; it's what I do. I am glad heroics are on the news, because there are real heroes out there everyday. I just wish that every lay person (meaning not medical) who saves lives got more coverage.

That being said, that little girl should NOT have been moved or carried, as I read in one story. If she had had a neck injury she could have died or been paralyzed. Her head should not have been "tilted back" as John David was quoted as saying. An airway can be cleared while holding the head and neck. Trauma 101: airway with c-spine immobilization. Doesn't sound like that happened.

However, I really like John David's personality. He seems very calm and introspective. I think he would make a terrific firefighter or paramedic. I wonder if his parents would allow it? He could work in his local community and stay close to home. Of course, he would have to work Sunday, as everyone is service professions does!

Anonymous said...

Re: Josh & JohnDavid helping the accident victim.....obviously it was the right thing to do, as anyone would have done, but why did Josh feel it necessary to give an interview afterwards? I thought that the Duggar religion believes in modesty ?

Anonymous said...

SuzanneDeaz - I never thought of it that way about protecting themselves from a lawsuit by filming the rescue. Very good point.

Jane in California said...

Suzanne said:
From the footage I saw on the phone video it was taken after the parmedics were there so Josh was free to take a video. I think it is wise to take a video with people sometimes suing others who try to help. This way they have a record of what was actually done. Smart move!
* * * *

If this little girl had been paralyzed because she was moved by Josh or John David instead of immobilized, then having the video would still provide a record of what was actually done, but to quite a different effect.

I'm glad the little girl is okay, or on the road to recovery. This event reminds me that some basic emergency skills and knowledge are essentials we should all have.

Ravello said...

Some said:
I really feel so sorry for little Jordyn, Jennifer and the Josoemthing. None of them seemed to be attached to Michelle, none of them reached for her, as a normal child would, after an hour, day, or week without their mama. She never said, I want to see my babies, she only said she knew they were being watched and went back to kissing JB.

Comment to above: I noticed the littlest Duggars seemed detached from Michelle. There was a scene Sunday night of everyone seeing Michelle for the fist time. One of the older girls had Jordyn, who did not react to seeing her mother. Maybe Michelle gives up the baby as soon as she gets pregant with the next one. Very sad.

Kat said...

Reality kids are not actors, therefore are NOT paid.

But everyone who reaches the age of 18 is an ADULT, and must sign their own contract with TLC. Even a parent cannot assume consent for a legal adult in contractual matters. So John, Anna, John-David, Jana, and Jill, at least, should have their own contracts and be paid separately.

For folks who are interested, check out A Minor Consideration (http://www.minorcon.org/), which is an organization established to lobby for protection of minor children in entertainment. This organization got a lot of publicity when Kate G's brother openly supported it, in an effort to publicize the plight of the Gosselin kids.

Kara said...

Josh said that there were several cars involved in the accident and that it is a dangerous intersection. It could have been that the girl needed to be moved regardless because cars kept crashing into the situation and piling up. This is a n excusable reason to move someone.

Anonymous said...

Contrary to popular opinion not everyone even over 18 on these reality shows is paid. There is no law in many states requiring it. I doubt we'll see the Duggars do much filming in California where they would have to set up an account for each child at least.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

Maybe Josh gave the interview as he was approached and asked to give one. Giving an interview if asked is not negating one's modesty.

Cyn said...

Re interview:

The interview I saw on the LOCAL news (haven't seen the CNN one) was done days later not the same day it happened. Or am I missing something?
I thought the lady said "last Thursday"...

anonymous said...

Great point Ravello

Kara said...

I just read on AOL news that Josh did NOT carry that little girl inside. The girls grandmother picked her up and ran her into the office which is when Josh jumped in. Here is the link: http://www.parentdish.com/2010/02/03/duggar-sons-help-save-a-little-girls-life/?icid=main|main|dl1|link5|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parentdish.com%2F2010%2F02%2F03%2Fduggar-sons-help-save-a-little-girls-life%2F

Midwest Mom said...

Josh could have declined the interview, confident in his decision that what he did was the right thing, and just left it at that.
His comfort in front of a camera is very indicative of where the Duggar family has veered off the path of privacy.

Awhile back, actor Mark Harmon rescued a car crash victim and refused to give interviews about it. I admire him for that.

Heather said...

The article said the grandmother moved the little girl not the boys.

nccalgal said...

With the Bates' remodel, their property taxes obviously will go up, but I wonder, will they be liable for income taxes on the cost of the expansion, especially if TLC "contributed" to it?

Jane in California said...

Ravello said...

Some said:
I really feel so sorry for little Jordyn, Jennifer and the Josoemthing. None of them seemed to be attached to Michelle, none of them reached for her, as a normal child would, after an hour, day, or week without their mama. She never said, I want to see my babies, she only said she knew they were being watched and went back to kissing JB.
* * *

This reminds me of the episode where two of the older girls had to have their wisdom teeth removed. Both of them were worried and one was quite scared. What was sad to me was both turned to JB for reassurance. Michelle was there, but she was never once shown hugging either daughter, consoling or comforting, or even looking particular concerned because they were upset.

JB was the one who went in and comforted each, offered encouraging words, etc.

I felt this showed a strange detachment on Michelle's part. It was disconcerting to see this supposed incredible super mama tune out her daughters' evident distress.

How often do we see Mrs. Duggar actually interacting with her other children besides nursing the latest baby? Is there something in their belief system that says mama should not be to physically affectionate or bonded with her children?

Amanda said...

I'm wondering who called the news station and told them about the accident. And wasn't it convenient that the girls uncle just happen to come by to say thanks while the news crew was there?

If the family is in Little Rock does this mean that John is staying by himself at the house or is he staying with Josh and Anna?

And if John is staying by himself who is whispering "Nike" to him? And why can't the girls stay in NWA (cause they are taking care of the kids)

Anonymous said...

The Duggars have a very odd way of hugging people as a greeting.

Examples: In the episode where they have a birthday party for James at Aunt Deanna's house, JimBob hugs his sister by this weird "side hug" (I don't know how else to describe it). It's like standing next to someone and giving them about 1/3 of a normal hug.

Josh did the same thing to Anna after he asked her to marry him, in the restaurant episode. She said yes, and then he stood next to her and gave her another weird "side hug".

I find the whole thing just really odd. It comes across as awkward on their part, and more of the same "you have cooties and I'm so much better than you" attitude that is so off-putting to many viewers.

If you're going to HUG someone than just do it !

SuzanneDeAZ said...

I do not see anything negative that Josh did not decline an interview. So be it.

Cyn said...

At 21 how many people in general are 'confidant they did the right thing' enough to not do an interview?

At 58 Mark Harmon has been in the public eye longer than Josh has been alive, and quite possibly just wanted to be left alone.

Josh at 21 has only had the 'public interest' since he was 14-15.... Josh has also watched his parents give polite 'interviews' to all that asked for them. As shown by another poster even perfect strangers can walk up to Michelle and she will graciously spend an HOUR talking to them. (though that poster seemed to think Michelle should have been "mothering the children WHILE she had the discussion with the poster but details)

SuzanneDeAZ said...

I believe they stated that John was staying behind to look after the house and to maintain his business. I would think he is living at the house alone at this time.

Anonymous said...

The Duggars have a very odd way of hugging people as a greeting.

I think it might have something to do with avoiding frontal contact.

Cyn said...

Since the news (especially local news which is where this started) wanted to do the interview, they could have arranged for the uncle to be there at the same time, and who knows maybe the uncle wanted his 5 min of fame (again on local TV) because we do not know yet IF TLC was there to film it or plans to air anything about it.

YES the possibility is there that Josh or John or Anna called the local news OR that TLC called them when they found out what Josh and John had done..

Frankly what I found MOST interesting in this entire thing is we have learned that JOHN is a volunteer fire firefighter in the smaller town the Duggar house is in... THAT has never been mentioned before, or even talked about, again proof to ME that they do have lives outside of what TLC portrays on TV. Not everything this family does, says, thinks, or goes is filmed for national TV.

In the interview I saw on the parent dish site, what struck me was that again JOSH wasn't claiming the credit, he gave it to God saying that "God had them in that place at that time to help her" If they hadn't been there and known CPR, the child might not had help for the 5 min it took for the EMS team to get there. In the first interview I saw he gave the credit to the EMS team... Again not actually claiming any for himself or John.

Please understand me when I say this, the EMS team probably got there very fast but 5 min without air can and does cause brain damage... what air they got into that child before the EMS team got there could very well have saved that child's life. Not to mention keeping the blood flow going through her body if her heart stopped as well (if they did CPR they weren't just doing rescue breathing)

Mascot said...

I was watching a re-run of 18 kids and counting and it showed scene with Mrs.Bates and Mrs.Duggar walking in the Bate house empty handed. Two of the older girls had infant Bates and infant Duggar in tow.

Sad/Strange

Anonymous said...

Yes ! I hope that JohnDavid is living alone at the house right now, leaving his dirty clothes on the floor, watching *gasp* prohibited tv shows, staying up until wee hours of the morning chatting with friends, maybe even having a few friends over....all the normal things that a teenager should do. One can only hope.

Anonymous said...

The Duggars have a very odd way of hugging people as a greeting.

Examples: In the episode where they have a birthday party for James at Aunt Deanna's house, JimBob hugs his sister by this weird "side hug" (I don't know how else to describe it). It's like standing next to someone and giving them about 1/3 of a normal hug.

Josh did the same thing to Anna after he asked her to marry him, in the restaurant episode. She said yes, and then he stood next to her and gave her another weird "side hug".

I find the whole thing just really odd. It comes across as awkward on their part, and more of the same "you have cooties and I'm so much better than you" attitude that is so off-putting to many viewers.

If you're going to HUG someone than just do it !
IN RESPONSE:
As a Psych Nurse we taught this way of hugging to our adolescent clients to avoid the frontal touching. I see it a very appropriate!

Anonymous said...

Except John David isn't a teenager... he is a 20 year old MAN who still shares a room with his toddler-aged brothers. That to me is just plain uncomfortable.

Jane in California said...

Anonymous at 10:58 a.m. said:

I find the whole thing just really odd. It comes across as awkward on their part, and more of the same "you have cooties and I'm so much better than you" attitude that is so off-putting to many viewers.
* * *

As to the sideways, cautious hugging you describe. I see it more as not feeling totally comfortable with hugging, maybe because they are so worried about impure thoughts all the time.

I have some friends who I am very close with, but we give each other these little polite hugs hello or goodbye. It's because they were raised in a house where the parents didn't hug much (either either other or the kids) and so they never got comfortable with that. Other friends give me a full on hug every time - lol. My aunt is a great hugger and really makes you feel loved and special. My uncle is more of a "clapper on the shoulder" type.

Anyway, that's how I see the Duggar males especially, when hugging. They aren't used to it, want to express affection, but do so carefully so as not to have too much body contact. Maybe they would be better off just giving a shoulder pat or squeeze instead.

Jane in California said...

Anonymous at 12:41 p.m. said:
IN RESPONSE:
As a Psych Nurse we taught this way of hugging to our adolescent clients to avoid the frontal touching. I see it a very appropriate!

* * *

I would agree with you -- in the context of a psych nurse offering a hug to a patient/client. But don't you think between family members, it's okay to hug a little more fully? Or do you think it's inappropriate even among family?

Cyn said...

Re hugging:

I would have assumed it was a male thing... most of the males I know do not like full on frontal hugs... most do the shoulder hug, or the shoulder pat...

Please all males that read this blog I was not being derogatory towards males, just my observation of males that I know personally.

Kat said...

I hope that JohnDavid is living alone at the house right now...

But... if he is alone, who is there to ensure he has no improper contact with the opposite sex, or to yell NIKE for him when he goes out? How could he possibly be trusted to live alone?

Don't worry, though - remember, Grandma Duggar lives there, so I'm sure she is providing proper oversight.

Jane in California said...

Cyn said...

Re hugging:

I would have assumed it was a male thing... most of the males I know do not like full on frontal hugs... most do the shoulder hug, or the shoulder pat...
* * *

I think it must be partly cultural Cyn. And also generational. Within my family, we definitely do full hugs. I was raised around it as were my sisters and brothers, so we are comfortable with it. It's not like we hug all the time, but at Christmas when thanking one another for a gift, we hug.

My first b/f was Italian -- and that's the first time I saw two grown men not only hug face to face, but give each other a kiss on the cheek. LOL - I remember my initial embarrassment. But it's part of the culture, and no big deal for certain friends and family to greet each other that way.

Amanda said...

I bet that Grandma Duggar is in Little Rock, helping with the kids

luvmybabies said...

"I really feel so sorry for little Jordyn, Jennifer and the Josoemthing. None of them seemed to be attached to Michelle, none of them reached for her, as a normal child would, after an hour, day, or week without their mama. She never said, I want to see my babies, she only said she knew they were being watched and went back to kissing JB.

And lastly, did it bother anyone else that Josh said he was in charge, or the boss of the house? Don't recall the exact words. Wouldn't that be the venue of Grandma Duggar and not a 20 year old?"


That would be a pretty mean thing to do to an older lady. Why would Grandma Duggar want to be in charge? Just more work and responsibility for her. Give her a break.

When the children saw Michelle for the first time, they were probably being tentative because she had just had major surgery and had been ill for days. They didn't want to rush her, they were waiting for JB's go-ahead. And you could hear JB caution them not to touch her tummy. I don't see how anyone could think she wasn't delighted to see her children. She smiled and hugged and kissed them, she smothered Jordyn with kisses. She can't jump up and down, and Michelle is always soft-spoken. The babies not instantly lunging for her doesn't mean anything. After my husband and I went on a week-long trip by ourselves, my baby looked at me with suspicion for a minute or two before he wanted to come to me. This is very common.

I so admire the Duggars' humility and willingness to do what they believe God wants them to do. I hope they know that God can talk to them in moments of quiet reflection and prayer, and that allowing another conception to occur isn't necessarily the only way God can let them know what he wants for them. However, none of us know their hearts and prayers, and it is truly a personal decision that no one else can say is wrong or right. They have to be at peace with themselves.

Michelle is absolutely right when she said no one can live her life but her. It really doesn't affect anyone outside their family if they have another child or not ("carbon footprint" notwithstanding).

reality bites said...

However, none of us know their hearts and prayers, and it is truly a personal decision that no one else can say is wrong or right. They have to be at peace with themselves.
*******
They are always making judgements and comments about others. People magazine proves that. People love debt and think of kids as burdens? What??? On their show they mention courting and then tell the rest of us who "dated" we gave pieces of our hearts away. Bull. I dated plenty of guys and I have been married to the same man for 21 years. He has my entire heart and I have his. I assure you we are totally in love. Skirts do not make a woman modest. Her attitude and the way she carries herself does. Having tons of kids does not make you a better or super parent. Parenting them does. (Which they don't do. Their daughters do.) They are so holier than though it's pathetic. Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house Duggars.

Anonymous said...

>Yes ! I hope that JohnDavid is living alone at the house right now, leaving his dirty clothes on the floor, watching *gasp* prohibited tv shows, staying up until wee hours of the morning chatting with friends, maybe even having a few friends over....all the normal things that a teenager should do. One can only hope.

as well as eating potato chips in bed,and drinking a drink with caffeine in it...LOL.seriously I was raised very legalistically as well,and my idea of a 'wild time' would be smoking a cig and drinking a drink w/ caffeine in it.LOL.
I imagine gma is there too though,don't you think?

Marybeth said...

The bottom line is that Michelle is right--no one can live this life but her.

Deanna said...

It's a little late for Michelle to NOW say, 'It's only her life" type of thing, as if no one has the right to comment on it.

The Duggars lost the right to privacy years ago, of their own volition. They did not have to sell off their privacy, but they chose to do so, for money, of all things.

And I agree about Jim Bob's pompous and sanctimonious attitude towards other people's view of children and debt. NO ONE wants debt more than children.

Many of us, however, live our lives much more responsibly, because we only have the number of children that we can afford (and for some of us, that includes planning for extra-curricular activities, camps, college), and that we can nurture and love ourselves. I don't believe in turning ones children over to siblings to raise

Jim Bob needs to get a grip and realize that no one chooses debt over children. It's just that his idea of a supersized, megalitter of children is not possible or even palatable to most people.

SuzanneDeAZ said...

What makes some of you think that John David may be doing things he normally would not be doing just because he is alone? It is not that way for everyone. You know some people have convictioins that are so deep they do not need to be monitored. I know I had the same behavior when I was attending and living on campus at a state university as I did when I lived in a Bible college that had a lot of restrictions. When I attended there I never felt what you will call "restrictions" molding my life as I already had that type of lifestyle.

NO, I was NOT raised in a home that had a lot of restrictions. My mom was divorced raising us 3 kids in government projects. I lived in those government projects from age 5-16 and before that I lived in a very rough area. I just saw the "world", and did not like much of the behavior around me and knew there was a better life and desired it.

I would think that this can be true to John David and many of the other children. They may have no desire to go out and do many of the things you suggest they would do when they "break out" of their compound. Maybe they will take those same behaviors wherever they go. Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

Duggars and humility? Really, Having your family filmed in the privacy of your own home and during many private situations and showing them off to the world under the guise of having others see how you live certainly isn't humble imo). Humble is NOT just for outward appearances and clothes, it's about your actions at all times. Showing off your large family and all your kids on public tv when it conflicts with your own personal views that says that kids aren't allowed to watch tv because they've judged it to be a bad influence on kids certainly isn't humble. Plus, I see some pretty harsh comments (I believe Gawd also said judge, lest you be judged Jimbob)coming from them about how others live their lives and what they think about debt and children. And the kids using Code (Nike)in quick superficial judgment of others just based upon their dress again? I didn't think Gawd was about judging the person on the outside I thought Gawd was more concerned with the person on the inside...but apparently it's ok if you're a Duggar to judge others just based upon how they look on the outside.

Anonymous said...

According the the TLC episode guide it appears that Grandma Duggar is not left in the house with John David but is in Little Rock with the rest of the family

This is from TLC episode guide for Feb 16. Duggars diggin in

"The Duggar family is on the move to Little Rock, AR to be closer to Josie, who remains in the neonatal intensive care unit. But with Jim Bob and Michelle busy with Josie, Grandma Duggar is left to set up the new home and watch over the little kids."

Nancy said...

My family and my husband's family are all second generation Italians. We give full hugs to everyone and kiss people constantly on the cheek. We are Catholic and are also constantly hugging people at church. (it's not considered improper in our church) I can say with a pretty high level of confidence that my Dad, uncles, sons and brothers are not thinking "impure" things about the women in the family because we show physical affection. I am not sure I understand that rule of the Duggars. I do understand that many people are just not that comfortable with touching others but not the impure thought stuff.

Anne said...

I'm not too familiar with the Duggars, but see that the older girls and boys have huge responsibility placed upon them. Clearly they are very capable and their parents have faith in them.

My question is why do their parents have such a lack of faith in them in other ways. Don't they think they've established good morals in their children and can trust them in public alone or on a date? Things like "Nike", etc. baffle me. Do they think if their son or daughter is unchaparoned with a member of the opposite sex they will immediately forget all morals and go monkey wild?

It just seems so disrespectful to the older kids to me to assume that without the watchful eye of adults they have no moral compass.

Anonymous said...

"They are so holier than though it's pathetic."

For shame! Where is the tolerance and the love???

Anon 3:14 said...

Since the younger Duggars act differently when JB&Michelle are away (reference: the Josie episode where the little Duggars are dragging each other across the tile and the little girl was hanging off the stairs), then it's not too far a stretch to think that it just might be POSSIBLE that JohnDavid is not following all the Duggar Rules 100% while the rest of the clan is gone.

JohnDavid is, after all, the quiet one, the one who seemed less than thrilled at pregnancy announcement #19 (watch his face in the homemade waterslide episode).

I doubt he's out chasing women down the streets of Tontitown, but I hope he's able to have more personal time since he's not having to buddy anyone right now. Maybe he's even trying his hand at cooking.......TaterTot Casserole probably gets old after awhile.

Jane in California said...

SuzanneDiaz said:
What makes some of you think that John David may be doing things he normally would not be doing just because he is alone? It is not that way for everyone. You know some people have convictioins that are so deep they do not need to be monitored
* * *

I know you didn't mean to make me laugh with this, but I'll explain why I did :)

I happen to agree with you. However, the Duggars don't. They constantly monitor their children and worry that they may commit impure thoughts or sinful acts if not chaperoned.

Why could Josh and Anna not be treated as adults and left alone once in awhile, such as to go on a date in public alone?

Given that Josh and Anna, even though legally adults, were treated as likely to stray if not closely monitored, would John David be trusted not to eat junk food and maybe watch a television show normally not allowed when his parents are around?

As you said, some people have convictions so deep that they will not stray because those convictions are truly important.

Yet the Duggars don't believe so in the case of Josh or Anna.

I think that's a rather sad commentary on their belief in their own children and in their own parenting.

Anonymous said...

Well, do the kids have deep convictions that run so deep that they need supervision...or not? Some think John David is fine at home alone (not off surfing porn sites or having girls over).

But this family doesn't allow any child, of any age, including legal adults, go anywhere alone. They can't be with a future spouse alone, and need constant chaperoning and supervision.

The boys need the girls to yell "Nike" so that they will not be "defrauded"!

It seems that no one in that family has firm enough convictions to be able to act independently. So, who the heck knows what JD is doing alone in the house? I wish I were a fly on the wall!

Jane in California said...

I agree Anne - the Duggar parents seem to have a very low opinion of their children's ability to stick true to their values unless closely supervised.

I can understand this attitude when you are dealing with younger children with little impulse control. But when you have adult children and you still won't allow them any chance to be alone because they might fall immediately into sinful behavior - what does that say about how successful you were at raising those children?

At some point (and I'd say certainly by the age of adulthood), as parents we must step back and let our adult children live their lives. If they choose behavior that we don't approve of, rest assured they know our feelings in the matter and keep your mouth shut unless they come to you for advice.

Anonymous said...

RE: hugging. I didn't see this as a big deal at all. I've seen plenty of side hugs in church over the years, have given and received them. Seems kinda minor.

As for the Duggars thinking only their way is right. . . I've missed that. I hear them say, "this is what we've decided for our family" I haven't heard them say "this is what you should do"

I cringed when I first heard of the Duggars simply because I believe in zero population growth. However, I wish the show had been on when my children were younger. Michelle's style of interacting with her children has helped me in my interactions with my grandchildren!

You may disagree with the Duggars but they are consistent in the way they conduct themselves.

Anon 3:14 said...

re: the Duggars being consistent in their actions.

Well, the Duggars say they don't watch tv, and yet in the episode where it's James' birthday and the family is over at Aunt Deanna's house, there are all the Duggars watching 18 Kids & Counting right there in Aunt Deanna's living room.

Michelle always had JimBob hold up a sheet to cover her pregnant belly during sonograms, yet in the Josie birth episode, there's the c-section birth for all the world to see.

Doesn't seem very consistent to me.

What's that old saying, "Do as I say, not as I do".

Cyn said...

Well, the Duggars say they don't watch tv, and yet in the episode where it's James' birthday and the family is over at Aunt Deanna's house, there are all the Duggars watching 18 Kids & Counting right there in Aunt Deanna's living room.
***********************************
The Duggars have said repeatedly that the children WATCH very LITTLE tv. The Duggars have never claimed the children never watch TV.

Celestie said...

I said
And lastly, did it bother anyone else that Josh said he was in charge, or the boss of the house? Don't recall the exact words. Wouldn't that be the venue of Grandma Duggar and not a 20 year old?"

Then someone said

That would be a pretty mean thing to do to an older lady. Why would Grandma Duggar want to be in charge? Just more work and responsibility for her. Give her a break.
---
Grandma is not all that old, for peets sake! Many women much older than she, are raising grandchildren and great grandchilden. I didn't say, to physically be one lifting them off of bannisters, but to be the decision maker instead of Joshboy.

Ollie said...

I was just thinking, no where in any episodes or interviews has Michelle's protest of the liquor permit been mentioned. I wonder if they plan to address this in a future episode or if they plan to stay away from it, as it could tarnish the image of Michelle as completely devoted to Josie that they are trying to paint right now. (Not that she isn't devoted to or carrying for Josie, she is her buddy for the time being after all, but I think they are really trying to play up this angle for more than it's worth.)
Also, I did not think Jim Bob or Michelle came off sounding very good in their most recent People article. No, Jim Bob, nobody except debt collectors sees debt as a blessing, most see it as either a necessary evil or just an evil. And although I know some people that don't necessarily adore kids, people who actually don't consider them blessing of any sort are few and far between. As for Michelle's comment, yes you are the only person who can live YOUR life, but many people could live the life you lead if they wanted to...actually it would probably be easier than the life I lead because I actually do all the work (with my husband) of raising my children all the time. Maybe that's not how she meant it, but it sounds very prideful, and we all know what goes before the fall....

Amanda said...

the audio of the 911 call

http://www.4029tv.com/video/22479060/index.html

Millie at home said...

As a mother who has watched and been a part of her daughters involvement in the foster care system and adoptions of several of these children, I can say first hand that there are many people out there that don't consider children a blessing! As for adoption, I think it takes a special person to adopt children who have suffered from abuse or neglect, it is definitely a 24 hr a day 7 day a week job and someone always seems to need extra time and attention. I think the Duggars would probably be great at it but they evidently don't feel led to do that

As for the debt part of that statement, I wonder if Jim Bob is reflecting back to their own earlier days when they were in debt and it was a way of life. Their early years were really a struggle financially and in every way, but as they climbed out of debt they no doubt felt the relief that brings. They have been blessed not only with many children but also with the means to take care of them as they were led through a series of small business and investments to the point where they were when they started with TLC. They story is all there in their book which can be bought reasonably if you go to a second hand book site. I found the story fascinating and inspirational.

Anonymous said...

An interesting read about reality shows.

http://money.aol.com/smoney/general/canvas3/_a/what-your-reality-show-isnt-telling-you/20080117162409990002

Anonymous said...

I refuse to buy the Duggars' book. I won't contribute to the exploitation of the family.

reality bites said...

Millie at Home said:
As a mother who has watched and been a part of her daughters involvement in the foster care system and adoptions of several of these children, I can say first hand that there are many people out there that don't consider children a blessing! As for adoption, I think it takes a special person to adopt children who have suffered from abuse or neglect, it is definitely a 24 hr a day 7 day a week job and someone always seems to need extra time and attention. I think the Duggars would probably be great at it but they evidently don't feel led to do that
***********
I am a mother who has adopted abandoned, special needs children. I consider it an honor to parent these children. Their parents couldn't take care of them, for whatever reason. We feel God wanted us to raise them. Sometimes it's not easy, but what is?
We went into debt adopting them. I am angered that people seem to think adoption is a hassle or something "less" than biological. My children are as much a part of me as the Duggars children are to them. If the Duggars are true to their convictions of the Right to Life movement, they would adopt unwanted children.
Also his comments on people seeing debt as a blessing and not their children as such, is the most stupid, arrogant and pompous thing I've heard in a long time. MOST people treasure their children. A FEW don't. I'm sorry, the Duggars are a disgrace. He owes the people he's talking about an apology for his judgement. They sure have a low opinion of people. How sad. I don't even judge my children's birth parents at all. That is the Grace of God. Perhaps they should ask for that.

Ancient of Days said...

Suzanne said:

I would think that this can be true to John David and many of the other children. They may have no desire to go out and do many of the things you suggest they would do when they "break out" of their compound. Maybe they will take those same behaviors wherever they go. Just a thought.
______________

You saw the world in its myriad forms and then chose which direction your life would take. John David may be content with the life that he has now--and let's hope that he is--but who's to say what he would do if he were less sheltered? It sounds as though you had to put forth great effort to have the life you live now, and that very effort gives a life greater meaning, I think. John David can't make the same effort and reap his own rewards; he lives in a lockstep environment and is unaware of his options.

Anonymous said...

I'd buy the book at a very reduced price on Amazon, a used copy. I'm always interested in how others live.

Cyn said...

Debt:
Buying something now that you want before you have the money to pay for it.

JimBob isn't the first person I have heard with the sentiment that debt can be like giving yourself a gift, but if he said it exactly the way people quoted it, it would be the worst wording I have heard. Being JimBob though that shouldn't surprise me. And he has explained what he means MUCH better in the past as well.

Can't See Sheep said...

Anonymous 5:02 PM
An interesting read about reality shows.
http://money.aol.com/smoney/general/canvas3/_a/what-your-reality-show-isnt-telling-you/20080117162409990002
-----------------------

So you really do sign your soul away, interesting. My advice for JB & his family would be to run at their earliest possible opportunity.

another RN said...

@ Reality Bites,

I totally agree. I found Jim Bob's statement repugnant. He is either very arrogant, very "unsmart" or both. I cannot believe that he takes it upon himself to state how other people feel and to make assumptions about people's debt. People have debt for all sorts of reasons, and it is certainly not all due to American consumerism. (Besides, the Duggars consume an awful lot!) I know many doctors who are in debt because medical school costs over $250K from start to finish and they cannot work while in school. Many of my doctor friends waited to have children because of their debt. However, I don't recall any of them seeing children as a burden. They just wanted to wait so that they could focus on their children, and give them the attention they deserve.

I cannot reconcile that JB and M don't adopt. A few people have previously posted that adoption is against Gothard's teachings. Hmmm, I also can't reconcile that they follow the teachings of a mortal man...

SuzanneDeAZ said...

Yes, you can say I had options, however if I had a choice now to go back and choose which lifestyle I could be raised in I would choose to have a lifestly similar to the Duggars. I did not have a very good childhood, it was not safe. Nothing nice about being in the midst of women raising kids alone and making them more available to be rape victims. It was not till a year after I married I started to have nights in which I was not awake most of the time in fear.

Can't See Sheep said...

Wow, just wow. I found this so eye opening. In one way you do get an idea how those who follow QF deal with people that might "stray" or moms that may have more on their plate than they can handle ATM. It's so very sad. Some of the other articles are just draw dropping.

http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/02/02/the-49-character-qualities-of-ruth-5/#more-3917

SuzanneDeAZ said...

This is what I read on another board:

"Michelle phoned-in her protest of the quickie-mart selling alcohol; she didn't show up in person. "

I am not sure where they got this information but it if it is true than the whole aregument about her taking time away from the baby to attend the meeting was moot.

Anonymous said...

JimBob might do well to remember that some of the doctors saving his preemie daughter's life right now are in debt because they went to medical school. Nice snub, there, JimBob.

Anonymous said...

I wonder how many other people would have as much influence with just calling in their protest. I don't know how a phone in protest could even be considered not knowing who really was doing the calling in. If the phone in is true, then I think that shows that being a Duggar has some power in Arkansas. I am glad to say I don't live anywhere near them if they have so much influence on laws in that area.

I imagine the doctor that delivered Josie sure likes that gift of debt he has/had. Not only that but wasn't she delivered by a male doctor, and one that she probably hadn't had a chance to get to know.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to see the credible source of the purported information that Michelle phoned-in her mini-mart protest.

Anything else is pure speculation.

Amanda said...

Being from Arkansas I once again hang my head in shame that others think that ALL people from Arkansas are like the Duggars.

The Duggars DO not have that much power in Arkansas. They may have some in northwest Arkansas but if they do its a big fish in a small pond (very small) kinda deal.

My husband and I protested a strip club that was going to open close to us to the Alcohol Beverage Control Board and you either had to send a letter or go in person to protest.

I think the confusion is that Michelle protested then she did a phone interview about Josie and the protest was mentioned.

http://www.4029tv.com/news/22001106/detail.html

This is a link to a story about on the local news station.

Cyn said...

@ Quiverfull

The Duggars have repeatedly said they are NOT quiverful.. Posters on blogs and in articles keep lumping the Duggars into the quiverfull movement with the thought process of "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a duck."

Just because the Duggars WALK like a duck, and quack does not make them DAFFY Duck, instead they are Donald Duck. (I just named two different duck characters I was not trying to match characteristics of the different ducks to the different thought processes.)

My point is JUST because the Duggars agree with the ONE thought that Children are a blessing of God does NOT mean they also think they need to be "raising soldiers for God, to over come the other religions out producing children"

When the Duggars made the decision to let GOD be in charge of the Michelle's womb they had not heard of Quiverful, after they had been asked several times if they WERE quiverful they looked into it and stated quite FIRMLY that "no we are not part of any group, or following any or their practices, we simply believe that Children are a blessing"

With that being said why do we keep bringing in Quiverfull horror stories and equating them to the Duggars belief system as though the DUGGARS agree with and or have their approval?

Anonymous said...

We know for a fact that the Duggars follow Bill Gothard and ATI (they reference him on their site, and go to his conferences and retreats). Those beliefs are far more scary and heinous than anything Quiverful.

Gothard is against education, medicine, working for others, government intervention in most everything (except abortion---of course they want legislation for that) adoption, even Cabbage patch dolls!!!

He's a scary man! I'd much rather affiliate with Quiverful than Gothard!

SuzanneDeAZ said...

I soon found out after I wrote someting I read on another board that the person who thought that Mrs. Duggar called in her protest was mistaken. She called in her interview about the protest. So I stand corrected.

As far as the doctor who delivered the baby having debt that has nothing to do with the Duggars stand on having no debt themselves. Those who we have contact with for any reason does not mean we have power or influence over them. We do not know if the doctor is in debt when he went to school. He could have received scholarships or had the means. If he did or did not go into debt that does not negate the fact that he could be Mrs. Duggar's doctor. I am sure when the Duggars do any business such as shop at a store they ask the shop owner or the cashier if they are debt free. I can just see that before they open a savings account they make sure that the bank clerk is debt free. They are only responsible for their own lives and to live them to their own beliefs.

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