Free Discussion August 2010

Please use this for Duggar sightings, speculation, or general discussion. Note that this is Duggar discussion not other families, TV shows, or personal stories. If you wish to discuss other TLC shows, please visit TLCwithoutpity.blogspot.com. Thank you!

167 comments:

Anonymous said...

Do you think the Duggars still enjoy doing filming for the show. It seems to me it gets repetitive and they only do what TLC wants. The old show was really nice to watch, home made laundry detergent, home perms, and heck, I even miss those garish outfits and polos. I miss the old Duggars when they were even MORE conservative.

-Reality TV Junkie.

Anonymous said...

I have noticed the change from the days of "14 children and pregnant again" to the current media circus. As much as I get a kick out of watching their antics once a week (and catching the reruns over breakfast), I have to say that in my opinion, the family would have remained truer to their original values had they not done the show in the first place.

When it first started, it was all about putting God first, family second, and your own needs last. Now it seems like it is all about Jim Bob and Michelle going to speaking engagements, promoting their book and/or show, and appearing on the cover of People magazine a few months back. Sure, they can afford store-bought clothes now and they can take the kids on field trips to places they wouldn't have been able to afford without the show, but I don't think that has made them a stronger family the way that working together to sew their own clothes or make their own laundry detergent or do their own perms did.

It's a trade off, but I for one would like to see the Duggars go back to their roots and get off TV... although I would really miss them!

Iliketheduggars said...

"I have to say that in my opinion, the family would have remained truer to their original values had they not done the show in the first place."

---------------------------------

Probably... but would that have been the best thing for the family?

Much as I like and respect the Duggars themselves, and judge the lifestyle as "to each his own," I do NOT like the ATI / Gothard sect, which in its strictest form is nothing less than a cult.

Despite outward appearances, JimBob and Michelle seem to have operated on the fringe of the most damaging ATI teachings... for example, JB may be claim to be patriarchal but he isn't authoritarian and abusive; they are VERY lenient with the young children and seem knowledgable in current secular views of child development.

But how long could that have lasted? The more families shelter themselves from anything on the outside and surround themselves with Gothard nuts, the more extremist they would have to become.

We've all noticed how much more "worldly" they have become since they started the show. Maybe, in the long run, that's a good thing. Maybe JB and M will see that their kids are raised with good values and can function quite well in the "secular" world. Maybe the younger ones will realize there are good people from all religions and walks of life, and will be more moderate with their children.

The show might ultimately be the thing that saves the kids, especially the girls, from the worst future we all fear for them.

Ponchie said...

In the "Ask The Duggars" episode, Michelle stumbled uncomfortably through the question of why they don't dance. I thought she could have come up with something better than "We have better things to do with our time than to dance." I mean, if it was a religious belief, why didn't she say so? They are not usually shy about declaring that. I heard JB's answer, but does Michelle not know his reason? She seemed a little pissed of about the question. So she didn't say it was a religious belief and she didn't echo JB either. Does she even know why they don't dance? I just thought it odd, she usually has a ready answer for everything. This was weak.

Cyn said...

Much as I love the Duggars, I agree with Anon on 8/1 @6:50.... I wish the Duggars would go back to the 1 hour specials every 6 months or so... close enough so we could see the babies grow, but not weekly where every one (including me) has a chance to rip into them for something stupid they have said or done.

Anonymous said...

The new season will be so interesting to watch, I can't wait! So many new things happening.

msrylee said...

I think it's a very real possibility that M doesn't know why she chooses not to dance. IMHO, it is very telling for her not to be able to answer that question easily. She may not have other answers for her personal beliefs either. My Dad always taught me that if I don't take a stand for something, I don't take a stand for anything. Just some food for thought.

Punkette said...

In the commercials for the new season what type of crazy setup do they have for Josie with the car seat and stroller?

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know what the song is that's used in the new promo clip?

Suzie said...

New article that's surfaced in all the build-up to the new Duggar shows tonight.

http://www.parentdish.com/2010/08/03/michelle-duggar-chats-about-her-breast-milk-ban-and-losing-the-b/?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl5|link1|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parentdish.com%2F2010%2F08%2F03%2Fmichelle-duggar-chats-about-her-breast-milk-ban-and-losing-the-b%2F

(sorry the link is so long!)

This part especially bugged me:
[Michelle speaking]: "They have this big, long name for it, like rotating axial stomach [organoaxial malrotation of the stomach, as per Michelle's publicist] and it kinds of flips up and down."

First off, why does Michelle need a publicist? Before Josie, she really wasn't doing much and had an office; why can't she handle the pap that is released by People and their other favorite media outlets? Goes to prove they're not the aw-shucks country rubes they want the viewers to believe they are, but rather very media savvy and aware of their image. The kids younger than Joy are the only thing not completely manufactured (I don't doubt for a second that Joy was "corrected" once the footage of her hurling hangers at Jill was viewed). That was likely Joy's last hurrah as a kid; time to toe the party line now that she's 12 and a "woman."

Regarding Josie's stomach: GET IT FIXED! It's not as if they're flat broke. Those young kids are thrown around like sacks of potatoes by the older ones. Josie's poor stomach will be problematic long before she can "do cartwheels." The wait-and-see approach really bugs me, especially after the millions of dollars the state spent on her care to get her to this state (finally looking like an infant, thank goodness).

Anonymous said...

They don't dance because it may cause another to "lust in their heart." There is a scripture re: not causing your brother to stumble, and the dancer would be sinning if that dancing were to cause lustful thoughts in another. This is the reason for the long dresses and modest dress. BtW - many of the women in these very conservative churches don't wear pants because they are immodest and show curves, hence the long flowing dresses. Same reason the kids aren't allowed to wear real swimsuits. In a conservative church camp, the boys and girls would not be allowed to swim together at any age. There is a boys swim time and a girls swim time. The "not causing your brother to stumble clause" is also the reason given for prohibition of alcohol (yes, you know you're supposed to be sober and drink responsibly, but what if a new Christian saw you drinking and got drunk because he saw you drinking).

Dance is art said...

I picked my daughter up from her jazz dance class last night right before the new Duggar episode. Dancing, or even watching someone who can really dance, is the most beautiful, emotional experience, and it is really sad that not one of the Duggars are allowed to move their bodies to music. There is nothing at all lustful.

Dance is an art form, just like music. Sad that the Duggars can't see that.

Jen said...

We watched the re runs before the season premiere.

Something funny caught my eye.

In the episode where they return and take down the decorations, We catch a glimpse of what looks like a bike in the upper window. Had to rewind to catch a second look. pretty sure that is what we saw.

We wondered why it was there.

We came up with some ideas.
1) the bike was placed there as it was taken away from someone now playing with it correctly
2) a practical joke by the camera crew or friends or a sibling
3)placed there to keep it away from a sibling

oh the endless possibilities

all fun guesses and it made the Duggar family seem less picture perfect, more like a typical family.

msrylee said...

I was aware of the Bible verse regarding dancing. However, why couldn't M quote said verse? IMO, one needs to know why one won't dance, drink alcohol, wear pants, etc.

More or Less said...

"Dance is an art form, just like music. Sad that the Duggars can't see that."

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

The Duggars will never, EVER comprehend the concepts of art, music, literature, and culture.

The only concept they are capable of understanding is their own narrow view of the bible and their own interpretation of it.

Nothing else matters to them. They seem to have no understanding of the beauty and necessity in life for art, music, literature culture. Oh, or of science and higher math.

The bible. THEIR view of it. That is it. Sad.

Anonymous said...

CBS News online did an interview with JimBob & Michelle, published today. Michelle says she won't stop having children even if a DOCTOR tells her it's dangerous.

Here's the question & then Michelle's answer:
--------

CBS News: If doctors told you having another child was dangerous, would you stop?

Michelle Duggar: I don't think it would change my heart about how I feel about this realm of life. We think we have control and are making these decisions but ultimately I know who can give life and take life. Knowing that I can rest in peace... I see these children and think they wouldn't be here if it weren't for God giving them to me.
------

I guess they don't believe that God gives you a brain for a reason?

bonehead said...

I had to laugh at Jimbob, when he was complaining about, moving the Harp. Gee JB you are getting lazy. He did not complain when they got the Harp, now it's too heavy? I think JB does not do much of anything these days. Which is sad. JMO

Anonymous said...

Dance is Art - I absolutely agree with you but please understand that dancing is unacceptable in any form. Also, even if they could get past the dancing(no, never), typical dance attire (immodest) would prohibit participation. My friend was dying to do gymnastics when she was a kid and was not allowed to because of the "immodest" attire.

MSrylee - there is no specific verse that says "don't dance." In fact, the old testament describes the Israelites singing and dancing in worship to the Lord. Michelle knows exactly why they don't dance and I believe it's even been addressed in a previous episode. My guess is she avoided the question because it's one of those that is sort of twice removed (you might cause impure thoughts in another) and requires explanation rather than just quoting a scripture, and people outside of a very conservative mindset simply can't comprehend.

More or Less Said - true, but it is a very common viewpoint in ultraconservative churches. And even though I believe the Duggars homechurch, they clearly were schooled in a very conservative church. Please don't think that the Duggars are the only people practicing this type of religion. Although a minority, there are still a lot of very conservative religious families who homeschool and live similarly to the Duggars. Most don't end up on TV, of course. BTW - these type of churches get more conservative as you go from west to east with the most conservative sects in the south. A church that might seem extreme to nonmembers in California would probably be considered "liberal" to a church with the same name in the South.

Judy said...

I am so confused by Michelle's claim that only God can give life, even if doctors tell her not to get pregnant. . .didn't she agree to an extremely early delivery, with risk to her child's life, to save her own, after a DOCTOR told her to do it??

MandySue said...

The Duggars seem to see the evil in most everything: movies, music, books, art...

They remind me of the people who look for sexual images in Disney movies, I never see it until it's pointed out by them.

If you look for it you are going to find it.

Sharla said...

Please remember Michelle has a name and comments using other appellations will likely not go through.

Reality TV Junkie said...

I am so confused by Michelle's claim that only God can give life, even if doctors tell her not to get pregnant. . .didn't she agree to an extremely early delivery, with risk to her child's life, to save her own, after a DOCTOR told her to do it??
-----------------
Ahh, very interesting point you've got there!

msrylee said...

My recent comment regarding the Bible verse used by the Duggars re: dancing, isn't my belief at all. That particular verse is quoted over and over again by those who need a "reason" to obey those in authority over them. I know this, because as a child and young adult I wasn't supposed to think, argue or have an opinion of my own. As I matured, I realized that I didn't have beliefs of my own, and that I needed to search and find out for myself why I believe what I believe. Now I can answer for myself regarding my beliefs.

Anonymous said...

I'm not necessarily going to disagree with their belief about the dancing, swimsuits, etc. I guess what puzzles me is the lack of faith these people have in self-control. Life is full of learning experiences and they start when you are born. As you grow up you learn self control. I'm not saying the boys (and girls) shouldn't have 'those feelings' but shouldn't they be dealt with? Taking away (or trying) to take away all temptation is not really addressing the problem of self-control. I find some of the comments by JB (re:conception timing) to be offensive. IMO kids need to learn to deal with feelings and self control as they mature at their own particular maturity level. Removing the temptation (as they think) only creats confusion (am I a bad person for feeling like this) and only delays the inevitable of at some point facing the same temptations later in life. It just seems to make some of these issues seem dirty whereas if they were handled correctly with an explanation that everyone has these feelings, they would have a healthier view of man/woman relationships.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

CBS News online did an interview with JimBob & Michelle, published today. Michelle says she won't stop having children even if a DOCTOR tells her it's dangerous.

Here's the question & then Michelle's answer:
--------

CBS News: If doctors told you having another child was dangerous, would you stop?

Michelle Duggar: I don't think it would change my heart about how I feel about this realm of life. We think we have control and are making these decisions but ultimately I know who can give life and take life. Knowing that I can rest in peace... I see these children and think they wouldn't be here if it weren't for God giving them to me.

&&&&&&&&&

I haven't seen the whole interview, but it seems to me that in this interview Michelle is essentially saying that even if she was told by her doctors that there was a 99 percent chance that if she got pregnant again it would be a repeat of what happened with Josie, she'd still do it? (Yeah, I know that in her case there's an increased likelihood of having complications in a pregnancy, but that has a different impact than knowing that a pregnancy has a 99 percent chance of ending up, in the best case scenario, with an infant born dangerously premature).

Can anyone who saw the interview please provide some context as to if this seems to be what Michelle meant? Because if it is, to know beforehand that if she got pregnant again the infant would go through the same kind of pain and suffering that Josie experienced, and then to go ahead and conceive anyway, is quite frankly monstrous, at least in my opinion, and if this isn't in fact the case, I would be extremely reassured to know it.

Sharla said...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20012477-10391704.html

Anonymous said...

On the official Duggar Family website, they have "Character Qualities" listed, so out of curiosity, I clicked on it.

It's a chart, and one of their character qualities is "Punctuality".

I'm confused as to why they would have that on there, being as how JimBob said they run on "Duggar Time" (habitually late). The contradiction is not very encouraging.

Anonymous said...

Willingly putting further children at risk of suffering Josie's fate especially at this juncture including Mrs. Duggar's age and # of previous pregnancies is NOT admirable, and certainly not 'encouraging'. IMO the Duggars delude themselves that their decision to continue allowing pregnancies is an ethical gold standard of behavior.

Anonymous said...

MamaWama said...

Did you think the Duggars would give up their convictions? Also, the doctors haven't told them anything like that.

I tried to make it clear that as far as I know they have not told them that; an earlier poster's account of the CBS article made it seem to me that Michelle was saying that she would continue to have children even with a near-certain repeat of the situation with Josie awaiting her, upon actually reading the article, I saw this was not the case (though I wouldn't necessarily put it past Michelle to do it; the issue was simply not addressed and since, although Michelle is at an increased risk for birth complications, she does not appear to be facing a *near-certain* repeat of the situation with Josie (yet, anyway) and as such it simply isn't something she's considering at all. Or at least that was my assessment of things.)

Although, if a near-certain repeat of Josie's situation was the case, or ever becomes it, I would think that not taking precautions against getting pregnant again knowing that the resulting child would be in essence tortured and possibly killed as a direct result would represent a real betrayal of convictions for the Duggars, maybe not, technically speaking, the "life is more sacred than anything," one, but pretty much every single other one they proclaim to have as Christians.

nccalgal said...

When one believes in the sovereignty of God and that He direct all things and uses them for our good, then if she were to get pregnant, He will also give her the strength and grace to get her through regardless of what happens. It's hard to understand this mindset if that isn't yours, but it's theirs and they aren't going to change their belief just because "logic" says otherwise. Decisions like this require faith. It's not a matter of using or not using the brain or intelligence that God has given us, it's acknowledging that God's wisdom far exceeds human intelligence.

Donna said...

"When one believes in the sovereignty of God and that He direct all things and uses them for our good, then if she were to get pregnant, He will also give her the strength and grace to get her through regardless of what happens."

Using that logic, brushing and flossing teeth is not necessary either as cavities will come if it's God's will and if He sees fit. Same goes for Diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. There is no point then in watching what one eats or developing an exercise routine in the hopes of preventing the two aforementioned chronic conditions because it is all up to God whether we develop these conditions or not. We should not watch when we cross the street either because if the car or truck was ordained by God to stop it will, if not it won't.

From what I'm understanding, we are not too use our brains at all. I wonder why we have one to begin with since we are all apparently mindless puppets who are being pulled on a string all day long by a divine being.

Sorry, I don't accept that. If the Duggars and other believers are sure that God is in control of everything, including one's health, then they should not participate in any offerings that modern medicine and technology has to offer. It seems to me that they pick and choose what they will believe or not believe (pretty much like everyone else).

P.S. - I grew up in a very Christian fundamentalist household and I still consider myself a Christian, however, this new brand of "non-thinking Christianity" is not something I participate in. The Duggar brand of Christianity and conservatism does not depict Christianity in general, it depicts their religious guru's interpretation of the bible.

Enough with the Hypocrisy! said...

It's kinda ridiculous to say that God is sovereign over all things, and then leave Josie's and Michelle's health and well being up to medical doctors (who are able to study things the Duggars would never allow their own children to study).

If God is sovereign, He alone should decide who lives or dies, and there should not be medical intervention at the cost of multi millions, to keep alive a 1 pound baby. If God is in charge, let Him heal Josie...or not.

Otherwise, it's just more of the same hypocrisy!!

MamaWama said...

I don't agree that it is hypocrisy. Of the things mentioned like not brushing your teeth, or taking meds when you are a diabetic: those things will have negative consequences. A new baby is not like those things because it is a positive thing.

Yes, Josie had a rough start, but so did many many other people. She won't even remember those needle pokes, but she could go on to have a great life. Isn't that worth the risk? Wouldn't another new baby also be worth that risk?

It is one thing to use medical doctors for consulting and healing. The Duggars aren't against modern medicine. If they got their tubes tied, or the big V, then they would be breaking something that God created for their bodies for good. It is the only thing that a person purposefully ruins in their own body. I think the Duggars want to show us that children are good, and should be desired.

Unremembered Pain is Still Pain said...

"When one believes in the sovereignty of God and that He direct all things and uses them for our good, then if she were to get pregnant, He will also give her the strength and grace to get her through regardless of what happens."
*****************************
JMO, but it seems an odd view of god - one that will allow the suffering of a tiny infant so as to 'teach' its parents something 'good'.

And to those who remark that Josie 'won't even remember'.... have you ever actually worked in a NICU or with children who suffer long term disability from various birth trauma (including chromosomal irregularities often found in babies of elderly gravidity)? Seems pretty cavalier and insensitive to discount this suffering with an over simplification that today's pain, tomorrow's pain, and untold days after that full of pain doesn't really count if the infant is too young to 'remember' it.

Try going thru what NICU babies do yourself (and not just for a day or two) then get back to us again with a sadder but wiser view of the situation.

Anonymous said...

I don't agree that it is hypocrisy. Of the things mentioned like not brushing your teeth, or taking meds when you are a diabetic: those things will have negative consequences. A new baby is not like those things because it is a positive thing.

Yes, Josie had a rough start, but so did many many other people. She won't even remember those needle pokes, but she could go on to have a great life. Isn't that worth the risk? Wouldn't another new baby also be worth that risk?

It is one thing to use medical doctors for consulting and healing. The Duggars aren't against modern medicine. If they got their tubes tied, or the big V, then they would be breaking something that God created for their bodies for good. It is the only thing that a person purposefully ruins in their own body. I think the Duggars want to show us that children are good, and should be desired.

&&&&

Even if you are of the belief that babies are inherently good, because of the life that they represent (which I am not, I believe that babies are neither inherently good or evil, and, like anything else, can cause others to do both good and evil because of them, but that's beside the point right now) the fact remains that by choosing to bring a new life in the world that they would KNOW would suffer merely by existing, Michelle and Jim Bob would be doing an inherently evil thing. I would think that that fact would at the very least cancel out whatever inherent good there is in causing another life to exist. And the fact that that child will never remember the pain it is put through (*if* it lives through it, and *if* it does not suffer complications out of early childhood which continue to cause it pain, both of which are very big and valid 'ifs,') that does not mean it is all right for it to experience that pain. Does the fact that healthy infants will never remember what happens make it all right to hit and beat them? (I am not referring to 'spankings' here but rather full-on abuse). Does the fact that a dog or cat will not remember the event after a few days make it abuse and torture them? Does the fact that an adult person is asleep or unconscious at the time, and thus will never remember what has happened to them, make it okay to injure or rape them?

Any decent person would answer 'No, of course not,' to all three instances. And the situation is just the same with deciding to concieve a child (or knowingly letting it happen) despite knowing that it will experience a great deal of pain as a result. Perhaps there would be one less life in the world as well, but at least that potential life would be no worse off than the uncounted numbers of unfertilized eggs women as a whole dispose of every day - a painless fate that would be far kinder, IMO, to the agony it would otherwise experience.

Anonymous said...

I think the Duggars want to show us that children are good, and should be desired.
_________________________________
Yes, children are good and should be desired, when one is young and in good health and able to sustain a pregnancy and doesn't have 19 other neglected children at home who only get to be the baby for a year before they are cast aside for a newer and better model.
And when one is risking one's life just to pop out another one and risks leaving 19 motherless kids, then common sense and a taste of reality should really come into play.
I don't believe people are purposefully ruining their bodies when they practice permanent birth control. They are doing it to:
Give love and attention to the offspring they already have; following their doctor's orders to preserve their own health and life;
and providing for their families with the resources they are able to earn honestly, without exploiting their kids on TV for money. That is the real idol that the Duggars worship-the almighty dollar.

Enough with the Hypocrisy! said...

Desiring kids is fine. Wanting to have a giant litter, a football team or large classroom of children...isn't.

Also I doubt that God really wants Michelle to have children until she dies in childbirth of a ruptured uterus or a stroke or some other awful ending. That's what differentiates humans from animals: COMMON SENSE!

Leaving medical care (when it suits them) to medical doctors, but other things "up to God" (when it suits them) is hypocritical.

Anonymous said...

I've had a lifelong phobia of needle sticks. Not the normal fear unease but near panic. Finally in my thirties my mother casaully explained that when I was an infant I was held down and stuck repeatedly for a medical issue. The child may not actually remember the incident, but we can't cavalierly believe that means there is no psychic trauma.

MamaWama said...

Has anyone else seen this blog:
http://thechroniclesofci.blogspot.com/search/label/17%20June%202010

It is a blog someone is keeping about the mission trip Jana and JD are on. This entry talks about how they did a skit about the story of Joseph in the Bible but they did a twist and made it a Duggar story. I'm a bit confused, and I wish the camera's were rolling. We miss the best stuff!

MamaWama said...

Michelle and JB cannot know if another child will have medical problems or not. If they would've stopped at the first sign of trouble ( pre-eclampsia with the first set of twins) then they would've missed out all those other kids. And those kids wouldn't even exist. I'm sure they are happy to have been born.
Doctors have not told them to stop, and now that Michelle is over the gall bladder thing, there is no reason to believe that she wouldn't deliver another perfectly healthy baby.
I think the Duggars are more brave and full of faith than most.
If fear of pain is the reason to not have another child, then no children should be born because we all go through pain.
I wonder how many people would advise a couple to have a tubal or vasectomy if their first child was a preemie? Or is all this hoopla because of Josie's number in the line up?
There is actually a higher risk of a first time preemie mom having a second preemie than Michelle because Michelle has already proven that she can carry babies to term.
I think that the Duggars leave it all up to God all the time. That doesn't mean that you do nothing to protect life. God can give the doctors wisdom. That is not being a hypocrit.

Anonymous said...

"I think the Duggars want to show us that children are good, and should be desired."
********************************

WHY would the Duggars assume we need THEM to show/teach us this??? Do they think w/o their 'enlightening' or example, we would not already value children???

Holy Schmoley said...

re: The Duggars 'leave it up to god all the time':

JMO but this does not measure up as brave nor godly nor admirable in my book.

I can get more behind the theory that "God helps those who help themselves." My beliefs include a god that expects us to USE the good brains we have been given rather than remain perpetual children expecting HIS constant decision making on our behalf.

Therefore, I'd possibly (still doubtful though based on many other factors in Duggar life) respect the Duggars if they'd actually research the scientific data and then heed the evidence showing that a woman of Mrs. D's age and #of previous pregnancies is taking an unwise, IMO unFAIR, risk with future fetuses.

Seems odd for a mother who claims to so love children to be so cavalier about willingly placing future babies at such risk of suffering a similar fate as Josie (or worse)despite scientific evidence. SHE gets to feel all holy for 'leaving it up to god', but what about the likely suffering of the next baby? If THAT is secondary to Mrs. Duggar considering herself holy, then it's a mighty strange concept of being holy.

Surely god would want humans to use the brains given....

Anonymous said...

I think that the Duggars leave it all up to God all the time. That doesn't mean that you do nothing to protect life. God can give the doctors wisdom. That is not being a hypocrit.

Yes, that's why Michelle has had what, 5 C-sections now - she's been leaving it all up to God all the time, including the circumstances in which she gives birth to the children He gave her.

I'm pretty sure any doctor with even a shred of wisdom would have told Michelle not to have so many children in the first place . . . and that pretty much every doctor she has talked to has. So really Michelle and Jimbob just do what they think is best and then call that "God's Will" . . . they've probably convinced themselves that doing just that really is His will a long time ago.

I suppose technically Michelle and Jimbob aren't really hypocrites, though. After all, they've never actually come out and said that they think that intentionally causing pain and suffering to others is wrong, as far as I am aware.

Anonymous said...

Wow, I just realized that Anna and I share the exact same birthday, the same year. That's really scary to me. I am a university graduate with a flourishing career and I live on my own. I could not imagine being married with a small child right now, nor working part time with my husband (still single)at his car lot and having to deal with 10,000 of his family members at all times, let alone media spotlight. I certainly don't plan a courtship with the person I choose to marry. This has been a real eye-opener for me, and I feel even more sorry for the Duggar children. I love my independence, and I can't imagine living under such conditions. I cherish my privacy and my right to be my own person and make my own decisions. I turned out fine.

Anonymously Applauding said...

@Anonymous 6:39: Congrats on a young life well lived already! You sound like just the kind of daughter any parent could be proud of.

I find it such a tragic waste of potential that the Duggars keep their kids so under educated and insulated from the world.

My kudos to you AND the parents who gave you the wisdom, training, experience, education, and ENCOURAGEMENT to learn and live independently.

The Duggars could learn alot from you and your parents.

Mariam said...

I agree with Anon 6:39.
The Duggars seem to rob all their children (esp. the girls) of feeling independent and teaching them how to function in the real world. I am sad that all they will know is cleaning, cooking and being a "mom" to their siblings.

In the fall, I am going to attend college which is 1 hour and a half away from home. Of course, I'll be living on campus (no chaperone) which my father (who btw is conservative, Muslim)says will help me become independent and self-reliant. Throughout my whole life, my dad has taught me how to function in the real world and education was always a top priority in our house. I also come from a large family of 8 but the workload me and my sister had is negligible compared to the workload that the Duggar girls have.


I sincerely hope that instead of clipping their wings, the Duggars will let their girls fly and reach their potential. At 19 years old, a girl shouldn't have to just look after her mother's brood and not pursue any interests. I really believe that the girls' favorite thing is NOT cleaning and cooking all day long..

Does anyone know why getting a higher education (beyond high school) is discouraged in their group because although Michelle says that the girls want to be chefs, midwives and beauticians, we haven't seen any sort of hint that they are actually working towards these goals.

I hope that all the Duggar girls have to look forward to now is NOT a courtship.

Anonymous said...

"I find it such a tragic waste of potential that the Duggars keep their kids so under educated and insulated from the world."

So true. so true.
What would happen if say, the girls married ( I hope there isn't a courtship in the making), and the husband was kicked out of a job or got sick , how would they be able to support their family? Would they get a TV show just to feed their kids? If Josh and his wifey Anna didn't appear on TLC, I am sure they would be struggling just like any other couple.

Dear Michelle and Jim Bob, you are doing your kids a GREAT disservice by keeping them isolated from the world. let your kids reach their full potential. there's more to life )for the girls at least) than cooking, cleaning and taking care of momma's kids.

Ally said...

Congratulations to Anonymous at 6:39, you have accomplished a lot in your young 22 years of life.

However, it was your choice to go and graduate from a University and have a career right? How would you have felt if someone told you that you couldn't go to a university and graduate, basically stating you couldn't make your own choices.

This is the same situation with Anna, we don't know Anna and we don't know what Anna wants. There are some women out there, that want to stay at home, be married and have kids. I say this because, I work at home, because I want to be with my husband. I know other women who feel the same way, they are my co-workers.

I live a life a lot like the Duggars and have a lot of their values, and people question me everyday, because I have a tiny social life and I don't have a degree. I don't let it bother me, because it's a choice that I have made in my life. I'm sure it doesn't bother Anna either, because it's a choice that she has made in her life to be married with a child and helping her husband run a business. That sounds like a good, successful life to me. If something were to happen to Josh, she would have the skills to run the car lot.

MamaWama said...

If they believe motherhood is the highest calling, who are we to tell them otherwise?
I don't believe the Duggar parents are holding the girls back. I think the girls want to get married and have children and get to stay home with them.
Most of my friends who work are just trying to find a way to quit their job so they can stay home with their babies. I think aiming for that goal from the beginning is a good thing. Who wouldn't like to never have a boss, sleep in as late as you want, and get to play with your own kids all day. I think it sounds great.

Steve knight said...

I hear that the duggers have a large desire for more blessings. but is it not part of becoming an adult to control your desires and not indulge in them endlessly? I mean Michelle protested booze so people would not become drunks but she can't control her desires?
Desiring blessings is not exactly being a good christian is it? that's just using good for you own needs.
When it is impossible to take care of your children's emotional needs but to still desire more is that not a sin?

Andrea said...

However, while I agree that some have motherhood as their goal in life, would this be true for 19 children? Do all of them have the same goal, just to stay at home? I don't think that all 19 want to be stay-at-home moms, or that the first 4 girls do not have college in mind. It doesn't hurt to have something you can bounce back on if something unexpected happened in your life, does it?

MandySue said...

It's not like education and work make you a bad person or a bad mom. If a person wants to be a stay at home mom (or dad) that is their choice. If a person wants to work that is their choice also. But they should not force that choice on their kids. If a girl grows up and all she hears is that she is going to be a wife and a mother when she grows up then that is what she believes and it takes a person with a strong personality to break out of that role. The Duggars have trained their children from the beginning not to think for themselves and they don't have that strong personality (Joyanna might but she is part of that in between group when Michelle started letting the buddies raise the kids)

What is wrong with being a mom with an education? I have a friend who home-schools her children and she is teaching them Shakespeare, foreign languages (mandarin currently) and advanced math. She has four children the oldest is 11. If her daughters choose to be stay at moms she would be delighted but she is preparing them for so much more.

The Duggars not so much. In the time we live woman can be anything but this family is stuck somewhere between the civil war and the industrial revolution.

Anonymous said...

MamaWama said...

Who wouldn't like to never have a boss, sleep in as late as you want, and get to play with your own kids all day. I think it sounds great.
___________________________________

I have never known a stay at home mom who slept as late as she wanted, usually at child wakes them up before daylight. Play? They still have to cook, clean, laundry, grocery shop, etc.

Maybe they can sleep and play all day if they have older children who take care of the younger siblings and those same older children do all the manual labor around the house.

Anonymous said...

Even if a woman wants to be a stay home mom, a well-rounded education is a good thing to get first. IMO, when one goes right from the parents' home to the husbands' home and starts having kids right away, there is a big portion of life that got missed. What about traveling,taking classes, living with friends in a dorm or apartment, working different jobs to see what you like, and learning how to live independently? Not to mention the fact that when the kids get in school, you need more education to be on top of helping them with their homework. I mean, the Duggars have taught their kids that man roamed the earth with the dinosaurs at one time. Passing on false information to your kids because of being under-educated just leads to another generation of under-educated people.
Also, eventually the kids do grow up, then what do you do all day? And husbands can die, divorce, lose jobs, etc. A woman should be taught that her future is just as important as her male counterparts and that she is valued for more than "birthin' babies".

MamaWama said...

When it is impossible to take care of your children's emotional needs but to still desire more is that not a sin?
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
I have seen no proof that the children are not getting emotional needs met. Children who aren't secure usually have big issues. They do not end up as sweet and kind as the Duggar kids.
I don't think the issue is about how many children the Duggars WANT. They are trying to please God. I think many people are missing the biggest piece of the Duggar puzzle. The whole thing is about pleasing God to the best of their ability.

It's funny how there is a lot of talk about choice, but the only choice that is "right" is to go to college. The Duggar girls have never expressed a desire to go to college as far as I know. I am guessing that their CHOICE is to be a mom. It's a valid choice. It is not a lesser choice.
If they did choose to go to college, we do not know that JB would nix it. We are just speculating.

Anonymous said...

The more I think about it, the more I believe the Duggars are the antithesis of the modesty/humility they claim to so highly value.

IMO it is a special kind of arrogance to assume, as a lay person with a mere high school education, that it is ok to disregard the advice of medical professionals when it comes to weighing risks vs. benefits of future pregnancies for a woman of Mrs. D's age.

IMO it is a special kind of arrogance to assume YOUR chosen way is the only possible way to 'salvation', thus proactively preventing your own children from having the latitude you were given by your own parents to find and define your own sense of ethics.

It is arrogant to assume that your children, even in their 20's, are so dependent upon YOU as their parent to keep them on the straight and narrow.

It is arrogant to presume others need YOUR example to be 'encouraged' or inspired.


IMO it is a special kind of arrogance to assume that, armed with only a high school diploma, you are fully qualified to choose a valid curriculum (no, Gothard does not measure up) and then to teach your children rather than allow them to be taught by those who studied and trained to become educators.

That self righteous cloak of the Duggars hides some pretty ugly arrogance IMO.

Cyn said...

I never went to college and frankly can't see what I have missed. I went straight from high school, to a day care center. From the daycare center to being a nanny, from being a nanny to being a mother of 5. Had I been raised like the Duggars I could have skipped the daycare center and the nanny part and frankly a lot of hassle.

We have no idea if the girls are taking on-line courses, doing correspondence schooling or are frankly waiting to be courted. We do on the other hand know that at 18-20 (the two oldest Jana and Jill) are old enough to make their own choices and have MADE them. We may or may not be happy with their choices, you might even feel sorry for them. But they are adults and have made their choice.

IF and I stress IF they wanted out of that lifestyle cousin Amy is there, JimBob's sister is there, Michelle's family is there, the church is there, and the community at large is there. They can walk out at any time and find work and a place to live.

We just have to realize that the grown adult children have made their choices, and we aren't living their lives for them, they are. If they have regrets later it will be their regrets not ours.

College educations are not the end all be all things every one assumes they are... My husband, who got a college education, can't find work to save his life; I on the other hand, who never saw the point in paying some one to torture me for four more years, has 3 jobs, all of which I run from home and support a house of 8.

As for traveling, the Duggars have been to more places than most of blue collar America will ever go, the fact that they do it as a family does not negate the fact that they have traveled...

Iliketheduggars said...

"If they got their tubes tied, or the big V, then they would be breaking something that God created for their bodies for good. It is the only thing that a person purposefully ruins in their own body."

----------------------------

No it's not. By that logic, they shouldn't get a tooth pulled, because God created it for their bodies for good... they shouldn't have tonsils or appendix removed, because God created it for their bodies for good... heck, they shouldn't take antibiotics to kill an infection because God created bacteria for good.

ATI leaders want their followers have a lot of kids because they want to create a lot of fundamentalist Christians that can influence the world in the manner they want. Same reason all the extremist religions do it.

If the Duggars really bought the "God is Sovereign" stuff in its entirety (which I don't believe they did, or they wouldn't have delivered Josie early), they were sold a bill of goods.

Iliketheduggars said...

"I think the Duggars are more brave and full of faith than most."

--------------------------

I think the Duggars have been healthier and luckier than most.

40-something years old, 19 kids, and #19 is the FIRST one to give either mom or baby any trouble. Sure makes it easy to believe God wants you to pop out as many kids as possible, but it doesn't require even an average amount of faith or bravery if there's no struggle to it.

Iliketheduggars said...

"This has been a real eye-opener for me, and I feel even more sorry for the Duggar children. I love my independence, and I can't imagine living under such conditions. I cherish my privacy and my right to be my own person and make my own decisions. I turned out fine."

--------------------------------

As have they. Anna's decisions may just as well be right for her; she may just as well look at a college graduate and career woman with no family in horror, as missing out on the very things she cherishes.

There is no one right road. We are all different. Lots of roads can lead to health and happiness. That's something we actually CAN learn from watching the Duggars.

Iliketheduggars said...

"Desiring blessings is not exactly being a good christian is it? that's just using good for you own needs.
When it is impossible to take care of your children's emotional needs but to still desire more is that not a sin?"

-----------------------------

I agree. Of course, there is not a shred of evidence that the Duggars are not taking care of their children's emotional needs. So they are not in "sin" territory yet.

Anonymous said...

I wish I had known all the years I was a stay at home mom that I could sleep as long as I want and could just play all day. Being a stay at home mom was good for the time I did it but it was also lonely and boring at times too.

I think the kids are getting their emotional needs met, at least the little ones. They seems quite happy to me. But I don't think their emotional needs are being met by their parents but instead by their older siblings. I rarely see Michelle tending to her children, it is usually Jill. It was Jill who was kneeling on the floor telling the younger kids to be careful when they brought Josie home the first time. Michelle was just standing behind her. I wouldn't be surprised if they are more bonded to Jill than their own mother.

Steve knight said...

Scheduling one on one time with a parent using a calender is enough? it is physically impossible to spend even fraction of the day with each child. there is not enough time in the day.
if a single mother spent 45 minutes with each of her two children a day. she would spend more time then the duggers could with all their children and being home all the time. But their children are regulated to a calender to spend one on one time with their parents.
IF a single mom posted that she had her kids fill in the calender when they wanted to spend time with their mother people would have fit. but it is perfectly fine in the dugger household.

Anonymous said...

Michelle is a rocket scientist, compared to some of her mushmouth children, who can barely form a coherent sentence.

Imagine those children grown up and home schooling others. Oops---some of them already are in charge of homeschooling!

This is just ignorance breeding massive ignorance. Educated people homeschooling is one thing. Uneducated, poorly spoken, poorly read people, doing the same is a bit pathetic. And again, one cannot just "teach themselves" using some program on the internet.

This is why education is so important. It opens doors and an educated society is far better than an ignorant one.

Anonymous said...

When it is impossible to take care of your children's emotional needs but to still desire more is that not a sin?
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
I have seen no proof that the children are not getting emotional needs met. Children who aren't secure usually have big issues. They do not end up as sweet and kind as the Duggar kids.
I don't think the issue is about how many children the Duggars WANT. They are trying to please God. I think many people are missing the biggest piece of the Duggar puzzle. The whole thing is about pleasing God to the best of their ability.

It's funny how there is a lot of talk about choice, but the only choice that is "right" is to go to college. The Duggar girls have never expressed a desire to go to college as far as I know. I am guessing that their CHOICE is to be a mom. It's a valid choice. It is not a lesser choice.

From reading this blog it does not appear to me that the Duggar children are all "sweet and kind." I have read about behavior from Jessa, Jinger, Johannah to an extent, and most of all Josh that would lead me to consider most of them are anything but. The older ones at least are well-behaved (at least the ones who are still at home) , but that is not the same thing.

And if the children are not having all their emotional needs met I'm fairly sure they would hide it. Their parents have told us they trained them to "always put on a pleasing countenance even if they are feeling otherwise inside," and with the near-complete control their parents exercise over them, they would never dare mention otherwise while the cameras were on them, as it would potentially ruin their family image. I would say the older girls at the very least are not getting their emotional needs met, and if they continue to be overworked the way they are now, it is only a matter of time before they snap. Most of the others will likely have issues from the way they are raised as well, the boys with entitlement and the younger children with discipline since they are raised mostly by their sisters.

You are correct that it is a valid choice to decide to be a full-time mom instead of working (when money is not an issue, anyway), but you seem to be missing the crucial issue here - the girls have no choice. Not really, anyway. They are told by their parents that if they do not live out their lives as they say, living at home until they find a husband (through courtship) that their father approves of, gets married, and lives at home taking care of him and having children, they will anger God and burn in Hell for eternity. What kind of choice is that for them to make, especially since it has been made sure they never known any way of doing things but their parents'? There is a difference between wanting to please God and avoiding making him angry. Not to mention that the Duggar children, in fact everyone at least in my opinion, should not live their lives trying to please God but instead themselves, as their lives belong to no one but them. And if by any chance God really would send people to Hell for choosing to live their lives the way they want instead of the way He wants, then He is a monster and pleasing Him should be the last thing on people's minds.

Anon 3:14 said...

from a prior commenter: "The Duggar girls have never expressed a desire to go to college as far as I know".

@@@@@@@

Actually, yes, one of them has.

From an interview in May (2010), Michelle Duggar states that Jill is looking into college, here is the link:

http://blogs.discovery.com/tlc-michelle-duggar-blog/2010/05/michelle-are-any-of-the-kids-talking-about-college-.html

Anonymous said...

"Scheduling one on one time with a parent using a calender is enough? it is physically impossible to spend even fraction of the day with each child. there is not enough time in the day.
if a single mother spent 45 minutes with each of her two children a day. she would spend more time then the duggers could with all their children and being home all the time. But their children are regulated to a calender to spend one on one time with their parents.
IF a single mom posted that she had her kids fill in the calender when they wanted to spend time with their mother people would have fit. but it is perfectly fine in the dugger household.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Agree! To the Duggar-like-minded, if a working mom spent so little time with her kids, she'd likely stand accused of being materialistic and ethically flawed for choosing a career over motherhood.

But, though the net result is identical (kids have little one on one time with mom), Mrs. D is given a pass because her time is severely limited due to unbridled birthing.

So, unlimited birthing is a righteous reason to spend so little one on one time with kids, but working outside the home is not?

Major lapse in logic here.

Anonymous said...

from a prior commenter: "The Duggar girls have never expressed a desire to go to college as far as I know".

@@@@@@@

Actually, yes, one of them has.

From an interview in May (2010), Michelle Duggar states that Jill is looking into college.

In all fairness however, that interview was the only time I have heard that Jill was looking into taking nursing courses - not going to college full-time, yes there is a difference, not that there's anything wrong with it - and as far as I know, there has been no further signs of Jill even looking into taking a nursing course either on the show, or anywhere else. If anyone has heard anything outside of this interview, feel free to show it.

Anonymous said...

I don't believe that the young Duggar women have made a choice to stay in their parents' home and raise their parents' children. I honestly think they do not know there is another world out there open to them. They have been raised to believe that the outside world is evil; that "Other People" as some of them are so fond of saying, are not up to par because they do not follow the Gothard way. There is a show about Erin Bates going to college. In reality, she does not go to college; she took one class in a very conservative Christian school with a Duggar girl as her escort, and in the clip she says she does not want to go to a big school where people dress funny and have green hair. How ridiculous. If the Duggars and Bates and others are led to believe that everyone outside the cult is evil and has green hair, then of course they are not going to make the choice to go to college or find a job. They are afraid of "Other People" and have been told that it is safer to hide in the parents' home until God sends them a mate to court them. Then they can make their own babies and teach them the same bunch of lies.
I'm not saying that everyone has to go to college, but everyone should experience some sort of independent life away from the parents and away from a man who is going to rule over them like the Gothard men do. If they could experience life first,and then decide they want to go back to the cult and be baby makers, it would be their choice. But to never even know what choices they have is a shame.

Anonymous said...

Cyn wrote:

College educations are not the end all be all things every one assumes they are... My husband, who got a college education, can't find work to save his life; I on the other hand, who never saw the point in paying some one to torture me for four more years, has 3 jobs, all of which I run from home and support a house of 8.

----------------------------------

I agree with you, Cyn, and congratulate you for being able to support your family this way.

I come from a family that pushed higher education. And I do think that for some professions, (medicine and law, for instance), that it is the right thing to do.

However, there are other degrees that are very costly but actually working in those particular fields don't pay much. We had a neighbor once who was paying big bucks for his daughter to get a degree in Music; the daughter teaches violin students and it isn't very lucrative. To me, that was a waste of money.

I have read that lots of young people who are hunting for jobs in their field of education aren't able to find those jobs in today's poor economy, and they're having to take service jobs, which don't pay very well. And in lots of situations, they also have student loans to pay. So where is the sense in that?

I think that JimBob and Michelle Duggar were financially secure before TLC came along, and that hard work and wise investing is how they got that way. And they have undoubtedly set that example for their children. Just read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and you'll see an example of what I'm talking about.

On a side note: love to read the blog and everyone's different opinions!

Jana fan said...

I happen to be paying for one of my children to get a degree in music, and it is a worthwhile degree, for certain. The experiences he has had as a result of his education are phenomenal. He has traveled, met people, gigged and played all over the place.

The older girls are probably still home out of fear. It always amazes me that parents can indoctrinate such fear of the outside world, but of course, they can. I have watched episodes of "Wife Swap", with fundamentalist homeschooling Christians (who aren't even as conservative as the Duggars claim to be) and there will be 15, 16 17 year old kids claiming that they don't want to go to public school because it is so full of drugs and sex!

If that isn't indoctrination, I don't know what is! NO normal teenager chooses to be home with his siblings day in and day out, and thinks that school is full of sin, unless parents have just pushed those ideas so hard, like a cult leader, that the child believes it as truth.

That is why some may think the Duggar girls are choosing to stay with their families. They have no choice, because their level of indoctrination is so deep. They think the world of college is filled with pushy liberals, and that the broader world outside of their sect is dangerous. Michelle and Jim Bob have done an excellent job of limiting their children's education and experiences to the point that the Duggar girls(and boys too, but it is most obvious with the girls) will not question any lack of choice they have. This is their way, because they have been indoctrinated to believe that the world is too dangerous and sinful outside of the home.

Maybe Jinger will buck the trend, but no definites.

MamaWama said...

Remember when the Duggars went to the public school and read books to the younger children? Didn't one of the older girls say that her favorite book was "Before you Meet Prince Charming" ? Has anyone else read this book?
In that book it talks about how the princess should stay in the castle with her father as her protector until she meets her prince. It is very different from the dating practices that are usual.
I think this is how the Duggars are setting a standard for their children. It is very unusual, but not necessarily wrong. It may not be the way most of us were raised, or the way JB and Michelle were raised, but I think it is awesome to see kids who have morals.

Anonymous said...

ot all college degrees are created equal.

If you seek a degree in 'travel & leisure', it's unlikely to pay off well as far as career or earning power.

If going to college, seems wiser to pick marketabe majors.

That said, though, there is still much to be learned from the college experience, even for kids who choose a field that probably isn't going to yield a decent paying job.

IMO the Duggars could learn alot simply by being encouraged to spend 4 years in an environment with wider diversity than just their usual Gothardites. The smartest thing they could do would be choose a curriculum that is marketable (IF the Gothard training they've received would even allow them college entry), but even if they chose an easier degree that is less likely to render them marketable in the job arena, at least they'd learn some independence, some critical thinking skills, AND, most especially, that those 'other people' are not all a moral risk to their Duggar souls.

Sharla said...

Good morning, everyone. I'll jaunt OT for a second and say my recently married daughter will be here shortly so comments may back up depending on other mod's schedules. I have to say though that I signed on to an off topic discussion of college in general and not Duggar discussion. I'm wondering if we need a free for all blog where nothing is off topic. I'll ponder that one and if you have thoughts, please email me @ sharla.smith@live.com. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

"It may not be the way most of us were raised, or the way JB and Michelle were raised, but I think it is awesome to see kids who have morals."

@@@@@@@@

Even parents who let their children venture out into the world and make their own decisions end up with children/young adults that have morals. The Duggars do not hold the market on that one.

A child does not have to believe they must live at home awaiting daddy to pick their Prince Charming in order to be a moral person.

Anonymous said...

"Notice at the end Michelle had some help. I wonder if the driver was a body guard and the lady a nurse. If that's true I'm glad the Duggars are using their money wisely and not just throwing it all into another vehicle."

-----------------------------------
At the end of the episode the lady who is identified as "high school friend of Michelle" looks more like a nurse. She picked Josie up in a skillful and professional manner right in front of Michelle.
Frankly, I can't see this woman being a "friend" of Michelle's, especially with her legs showing, wearing heels, and modern clothing.
Michelle's friends are more like Mrs. Bates that this woman. I really dislike how the truth is twisted when it comes to this family.

Mary said...

Michele was not brought up the wat she treats he daughters. She went to high school and was a cheerleader. then she meet JB and she lost any freedom she had before. I am sure her parents were not pleased but Michele did not listen. funny how this is different bow.


Mary

Anonymous said...

My thought was that she was a high school friend of Michelle's who happened to become a nurse. Perhaps she reached out to the family & they accepted her help knowing she could be trusted to keep with the family's values and also be relied upon to keep everything confidential.

-Katydid

Celestie said...

LLet's face it:
The Duggars are not going to go to college or get training for anything that requires academic prerequisites. They are not going to travel alone or with a pal.

They are being taught that the world is a fearsome place.

I think it is insulting to those of us who have raised bright, intelligent, kind, giving and MORAL children to assume the Duggars are the only ones who are able to do this.

mythreesons said...

I can understand the Duggars being less than enthusiastic about sending any of their children to public colleges but there's got to be at least one ultra conservative college that lines up with their beliefs and offer Duggar approved courses of study. That way the kids could at least have some time on their own even if the college keeps a tight rein on the kids and they might broaden their horizons an inch or two.

MamaWama said...

I am putting my bet down now. I am betting that Michelle is already pregnant but hasn't announced it yet. For one, when I saw her at the vision forum conference, she was wearing a jacket with pleats in the front. I thought it looked just like something I would pick if I wanted to hide a baby bump. You really could not tell what was under there at all.
Secondly, someone else has spotted her wearing the green shirt that she always wears when pregnant.
Third, if she has weaned Josie, then she is for SURE ovulating unless she has hit menopause.
And last, most of her children have been around 15-16 months apart, so since Josie is about 8 mo, it is time.
I just have to post this so I can say later " I told you so" LOL ;)

Anonymous said...

It's not much of a bet that yes, Michelle is pregnant again.

They've said in interviews they welcome child #20.

They've said on their website they do not believe in birth control.

They follow a religion that does not believe a woman can say "no" to her husband regarding sex, not even if she is ill, otherwise that would be "defrauding".

When asked recently if she was pregnant, Michelle said something to the effect that she might be, or didn't know, but it was not a flat-out denial.

In a recent interview, Michelle said that despite the fact her life was on the line because of preeclampsia, and despite all the suffering that Josie has gone thru, they want more children. She evidently has no issue with endangering her life, a baby's life, or leaving her other 19 children motherless.

Recent photos and the episode that aired last week always show her with something in front of her stomach.

So it's not much of a stretch to think that yes, Michelle Duggar is pregnant again.

Anonymous said...

For a woman in her early 40's having been through so many pregnancies, I would be shocked if Michelle's figure bounced back so readily. My guess is whether pregnant or not, she may always have that look to her tummy & she is just more comfortable in the loose fitting clothes as her regular attire.

-Katydid

Anonymous said...

In a recent interview, Michelle said that despite the fact her life was on the line because of preeclampsia, and despite all the suffering that Josie has gone thru, they want more children. She evidently has no issue with endangering her life, a baby's life, or leaving her other 19 children motherless.

888888888888888888888

And this attitude wins her Mother of the Year awards. This particular brand of conservative religion - which right now is getting the most play in the media - is why I do not desire anything to do with it. The sheer irresponsibility of this sort of thinking boggles the mind. Apparently it better to leave your husband a widower and your children motherless, than to take sensible precautions that would involve natural birth control. Hey, the most natural way of all is simple abstinence during your most fertile times of the month. This requires you have a husband who is a responsible adult as well, and willing to put his selfish desires to one side.

Nicole said...

"At the end of the episode the lady who is identified as "high school friend of Michelle" looks more like a nurse. She picked Josie up in a skillful and professional manner right in front of Michelle.
Frankly, I can't see this woman being a "friend" of Michelle's, especially with her legs showing, wearing heels, and modern clothing.
Michelle's friends are more like Mrs. Bates that this woman. I really dislike how the truth is twisted when it comes to this family. "

The woman's name is Cindy Pascoe, and it appears she is indeed a longtime friend of Michelle's. She appeared in a one-hour special from years back before the Duggar show became regular. She was in the episode where the Duggars finished up their house and moved in, "16 Kids and Moving In", might be the title. She had the same appearance as she has now, and was captioned as being Michelle's "long-time friend", and helped with the decorating. Apparently she and Michelle were friends in high school and have remained friends over the years despite their obviously diverging beliefs. There's no truth-twisting going on with this one.

Nicole said...

Good points, Cyn. The fact is, we don't know the deatils of exactly how it goes down in the Duggar's bedroom, and, I hope, we really don't want to! All we know is that Michelle gets pregnant a lot. All these other assumptions, like that Michelle isn't "allowed" to ever say no, are just conjecture.

Anonymous said...

Could we please put the following discussion into the "Dead Horse" category?

i.e. the recently DETAILED discussion (complete with bible quotes) as to exactly what times/days of the month JimBob & Michelle are and are not having sexual relations.

Really, people, there is such a thing as TMI (Too Much Information).

They have 19 children, I think that says it all. We get it: they have sex frequently.

I see no purpose, other than to nauseate readers, why we need to have a detailed discussion.

Sharla said...

The flies are indeed approaching the corpse. I'll go see if the next episode description is up and open a new thread if it is. Sometimes fresh discussion helps with the dissection of the dead.

CappuccinoLife said...

"They have 19 children, I think that says it all. We get it: they have sex frequently."

As if that's a bad thing. :p

But in all seriousness, there is no reason to assume they are any more libidinous than the rest of humanity. They don't use birth control, and they appear to be on the high end of normal when it comes to fertility.

I would hope that married couples who stopped at two kids still enjoy intimacy. How many children a couple has simply isn't an indication of bedroom habits, or we should then assume that if there are no children, there must be no sex. :/

Anonymous said...

When Michelle is talking about Josie's problems she talked about her tummy. What 40+ year old person talks baby talk to other adults. I was screaming at the tv.."SAY STOMACH" (I know I'm a week behind on the shows)

The only people who does are those who don't want their children to grow up and haven't realized that they themselves are getting close to the top of the hill..

Anonymous said...

The cover of the new People magazine has them saying "We're Open to Number 20". (translation= she's pregnant)

Steve knight said...

if god came down personally and said no more babies they would take it as a sign god wants them to make more babies.
they don't want to be told stop and would never listen to god if he said stop. that's the sad part because god is the only excuse they have to do what they want to do.

Anonymous said...

I agree that the People magazine article is most likely a PR pre-announcement of pregnancy 20.

I think they will wait as long as possible this time before telling the public that she is definitely pregnant. Or maybe they are so publicity seeking for their show now that they will announce it very soon for a ratings " bump".

Celestie said...

hat 40+ year old person talks baby talk to other adults. I was screaming at the tv.."SAY STOMACH" (I know I'm a week behind on the shows)

---
Sort of like when she talks about carry a baby in her tummy. Smart kids know, anything that is in the tummy gets digested. Women carry fetuses in their wombs or uteruses. Even little kids can learn the difference between these two organs.

bonehead said...

I think Michelle talks that cute baby way is because, she has gotten away with it, for most of her life. She is the youngest of her family, which means she was baby to death. Told she was cute all the time and probably got away with murder in her family. I am the only girl and the youngest. I have a brother who is almost 9 years older, so both of us probably got away with a lot of stuff most other kids, did not. Michelle also probably spends way too much time with babies and not enough time with people her own age. I know she loves her children, but I have heard, from people I know who have/had small children that too much time spending with them, you start to think like them, talk like them and in some cases act like them. No wonder JB treats the older girls like they are 10, cause they are not around people their own age. Have you guys listen to how the older girls talk recently. They talk like 8-12 year olds. So does Anna. Everything is always fun. Not interesting, or that it is great etc, but it was fun. A 4 hour bus ride was fun, everybody was tired or bored, but it was fun. And they always say that, but react as if, I'm glad were findly here, thank God. I don't see the fun in a bus ride. Why can't the girls be honest and say: I was bored and will be happy when we get there. Just like Jana I think said it was fun flying 20+ hours. Sorry, I've flew 6 hours to England and was glad when we landed. I was jet lagged, but happy we landed. It's not just the bus its a lot of other trips or things we know the girls are not interested in. I would like to hear one of those girls refuse to go on a trip. But, I'm sure JB will whip the Bible out and read some verse and make them feel guilty. JMO

Seriously said...

Steve Knight @8:46 has it right. Even if Jesus showed up at their door, sat them down and explained they'd fully misunderstood the purpose of life and asked them to stop having babies, the Duggars would continue having babies. They claim a righteousness that is not legitimately theirs. At this point, more babies = more controversy, and in today's tv market, it is the drama/controversy that sells to the 'reality' audience. For the Duggars to claim they do their show to 'encourage' is another piece of marketing. The Duggars' lifestyle pre-TLC was pretty hardcore po' white trash. Thanks now to their affiliation with TLC, their financial std. of living has certainly improved.

Why is it that if a family claims 'being Christian' as their reason for doing a 'reality' show, we are supposed to give them a pass that no one else on 'reality' program gives, the title of greedy and money grubbing?

Anonymous said...

Star pulled some things together to make it worse than it is IMO. They found the make their own clothes from years ago and the quote from Jana sounds similar to something she said at that ATI conference or retreat that she went to months or a year ago.

MandySue said...

Even if the Star article is not all truth at least it doesn't paint the family as one big happy and every one loves every one else. It is a touch of realism.

With People everything is always fine and the problems are just minimal.

Ponchie said...

I agree with bonehead, the descriptive vocabulary needs to expand a bit. What was it like? It was different. What was that like? It was different. Everything is either fun or different. Of course, with the sheltered and narrow lifestyle they live, pretty much everything IS different! They need a thesaurus in the house.

Anonymous said...

"I agree with bonehead, the descriptive vocabulary needs to expand a bit..."

@@@@@

Don't forget Michelle's favorite word she uses frequently when describing her younger children.

i.e. It can be a "challenge"... or "it's challenging having so many little ones".

Next word, please.

Celestie said...

They must not teach adverbs at the SDT. I've never heard them use one, when it would be grammatically correct. EX. We do things different (ly). I'm always saying "ly". They have babies frequent (ly). And so it goes.

bonehead said...

Ok, people, just read this one on the net. They said the duggars are child hoarders, you know like animal hoarders? That's a new one to me. I think Michelle is addicted to pregnancy or the rush of attention she gets from it. She said something in the US mag article about taking care of Josie by herself, being her responsibility, was intimidating. Really, I wonder if the older girls think it's intimidating taking care of and raising their younger siblings. Michelle & Jimbob really are twisted.

bonehead said...

Oh, yeah, one more thing. Did anyone notice that Jana, was pulling off tags from mens pants, that she was packing for the trip? The pants did not not look cheap.I thought they only buy at the resale shop? I wonder if Jana got some brand new clothes too?

Cyn said...

I would think taking care of a preemie whether you have 20 kids or 1 would be daunting:

You'd have to be careful how you hold her, are her leads crimped, what machine is beeping, has she gotten enough food in today, has she eliminated enough, are her oxygen stats high enough, does she have a fever etc.

Vs

Baby is fed, happy, clothed and clean.

Celestie said...

Did anyone notice that Jana, was pulling off tags from mens pants, that she was packing for the trip?

Yes, noticed that and also that she was packing for JD. Can't these boys do anything for themselves?

bonehead said...

I agree with you Cyn, it is daunting. and yes, other than baby is fed, happy, clothed and clean. And this is probably the first time, in a long time, like 15 years that Michelle has actually taken care of a baby by herself, no live in/unpaid nannies around. Remember when the older girls went to the treat or even when they are not there, how Michelle and Jimbob complained how hard it was to be with the younger children. I don't know, what is the difference between the older ones, when they were little and the younger ones now. Could it be age? Could it be the older girls being born first to help raise the younger ones? After all JB just complained about moving the Harp, back home. He did not complained when they got it a couple of years ago. Wow they have changed.

MamaWama said...

Child hoarders? really? What will they come up with next? LOL

Why can't they just be Christians who have given their whole lives to God? That is the truth of the matter.

Anonymous said...

According to Wikipedia:Animal hoarding involves keeping higher than usual numbers of animals as pets without having the ability to properly house or care for them, while at the same time denying this inability.

Well, let's see. The Duggars have higher than the usual number of kids. But they can definately house and feed them.

The "care" for them part is what gets us endless pages of comments. What defines proper care of a human child? Education? Parental time? Encouraging adult children to become independent outside of marrying somebody? Caring enough to make sure they know how to use adverbs?

You know, the definition does sort of work. The Duggars and their defenders will deny it, but the Duggar parents (not the family unit as a whole) have an inability to focus and provide care on all their younger children because of the number of them.

Older children don't get to be counted in people taking care of the younger kids. That's solely the parent's job. It's "nice" the elder children help out and provide for the needs of their younger sibilings. But it's not their responsibility in any way, shape or form. It is Michelle's and Jim Bob's. And looking at it that way, yeah, the Duggar parents sure are hoarding.

Anonymous said...

I'm just surprised that they moved the harp in first place. Yes, she enjoys playing (maybe she would get a little rusty) but didn't they ever stop to think that all the stuff they moved a bit at a time would eventually have to come out of that house?

And the moldy bread & other food at the Tonitown house? I know that the boys mostly ate at Cafe Anna when they came back, but jeez, it wouldn't have taken much to open up the fridge & toss every thing that was green & fuzzy.

Anonymous said...

I think Michelle really is exhausted taking care of Josie all by herself. She was what, 20, when she had Josh? All that her body has been through in the past 22 years not to mention the mental/emotional strain of the past few months. She's no spring chicken. Too bad at just one bigger girl (Joyanna or Jessa?) could have stayed behind to give her a break. They go to school online, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I wonder, too, how long that high school friend stayed? Due to the magic of television she could have all sorts of helpers like her sisters, other friends, church ladies coming for a few days or a week & we would never know.

-Katydid.

mythoughtis said...

yes, Michelle is quite a bit older than when she had Josh... yet another reason why most of us have the good sense not to have children in our 40s... unless they are surprises or we don't have any and this is our last chance.

Sharla said...

Deanna Duggar posted this today on Facebook. For all those who said beware of the imposters, it is true that a lot of items on the internet must not be taken at face value. In fact the news media can no longer be taken at face value, since they are now at times reporting internet rumor as news.

Deanna Duggar EVERYONE AGAIN JIM BOB AND MICHELLE DUGGAR DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN
FACEBOOK ONLY WITH TLC!!!!! JOSH AND ANNA HAVE A FACEBOOK BUT IT IS THEM TOGETHER!!! BE CAREFUL PEOPLE ARE PRETENDING TO BE MY FAMILY AND THEY ARE NOT!!! AMY DUGGAR IS REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!
15 minutes ago

Anonymous said...

I was looking at the Meet the Duggars page on TLC website, because apparently I have too much time on my hands. I noticed that Johanna's "hobbie" is buddy-in-training. While I realize that she's too young to have a real hobby, and they probably just made this up for her, yet it conjured two interesting thoughts:

1. Maybe Jim Bob and Michelle are waiting for the little girls to get old enough to serve all those middle boys before they agree to any marriages for the older girls. I mean, somebody has to serve the men, right? Those older girls are beautiful, I have a hard time believing that there has been no suitable suitor yet for them. I think potential relationships are being blocked because they are needed at home to raise their siblings and serve the men. I don't agree with the whole courtship thing, but if that's all they've got, at least don't deny them that, too!

2. The future goals of the older girls is still Beautician, Midwife, Chef, etc. Same goals we've heard for years and years, and yet we still have seen virtually nothing towards actually working towards these goals. Why don't they just admit the truth that they were programmed to be housewives and get over it already? These professions are simply lip service and nothing else. And Josh!...attorney? How'd that go? I mean, the car lot was interfering with your free time already.

Just musing.

No Hands Off! said...

"One last thought, for all we know Michelle is the one pushing for the sex, not JimBob "demanding his due" as the male."

I've only watched a few episodes of this show, but the one thing I do remember is when they were interviewed on a television news show, and Jim Bob said that Michelle was the one who couldn't keep her hands off him.
For what it's worth...

Claire said...

The future goals of the older girls is still Beautician, Midwife, Chef, etc. Same goals we've heard for years and years, and yet we still have seen virtually nothing towards actually working towards these goals.

***

To be fair, I think those profiles were written when the specials began 6 years ago and were never touched again (aside from the kids that have been added since). I seriously doubt that those are still the girls' goals, if they ever were at all.

That being said, I agree that JB&M are probably not actively encouraging the kids (particularly the girls) to follow their own interests if they deviate at all from the family's "plan" for them.

Anonymous said...

Why can't they just be Christians who have given their whole lives to God? That is the truth of the matter.
____________

I might have believed that at one point, but it appears more and more than they're paying obeisance to Mammon, to greed, to the almighty dollar.

Sharla said...

I think we have some newbies recently. Someone attempted to "curse me out" over a comment not going through a couple of times yesterday. The regulars know that at the first word of foul language I hit reject. If you wish to express your displeasure or discuss why a comment did not go through, please do not have a written temper tantrum in comments as it will NOT be read. Email one of the mods and include the comment you are concerned about and ask politely.

Please also remember no slang or slur references to Jim Bob and Michelle. Even JB and M as the one above are sufficient normally for rejection.

Again, I neither love nor hate the Duggars so there is no Duggar bias in what is accepted or rejected. Going too far out in Duggar hate or love, however, can result in rejection. Calling their religious beliefs a cult is going too far and is inflammatory. Please take that kind of discussion to the Free Discussion blog if you must have it. Being repetitive is definitely grounds for rejecting comments. Once you've had your say on a topic, please move on.

In other words please try to maintain polite, mature discourse such as you would have in someone's home.

Thank you!

He Said What? said...

.." but the one thing I do remember is when they were interviewed on a television news show, and Jim Bob said that Michelle was the one who couldn't keep her hands off him.
For what it's worth..."

@@@@

I've never seen that interview, but if it's true, shame on JimBob for his appalling lack of discretion when talking about his wife.

Where is his respect for Michelle?

Reminds me of when he said in one episode that Michelle had brought "baggage" to their marriage because she dated before him. She was 17 years old, how much baggage could she have had?

JimBob really needs to put a filter on what words come out of his mouth. His ego is entirely overinflated.

Kitten said...

Michelle's "baggage" was apparently that she kissed someone other than JimBob, and perhaps went through a teenage "breakup" with all the accompanying angst. Since JB, on the other hand, never refers to any "baggage" on his part, the assumption can be made that, even though they kissed before marriage, Michelle is the only girlfriend he ever had.

Judy said...

I bet Michelle can't keep her hands off of him at certain times of the month. . . .;)

Anonymous said...

Regarding Michelle's "baggage" about dating others: I would like to say I can totally understand that. I dated only one person besides my husband, and I definitely have baggage from that relationship. I sincerely wish I could say that my husband is the only man I've ever kissed...but I can't. I have told my children that I do not believe it is wrong to kiss someone before marriage, but have shared w/ them that I wish I could say their daddy was the only man I'd kissed. They will have to make these decisions themselves. I believe Jim Bob and Michelle will let their children decide what is best for them courtship-wise, and I believe each child will be somewhat different.

Anonymous said...

"Reminds me of when he said in one episode that Michelle had brought "baggage" to their marriage because she dated before him. She was 17 years old, how much baggage could she have had?"

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Jim Bob also made a comment on an earlier episode that "Michelle wasn't very organized but then she learned from other mothers..." (paraphrasing).

Nice guy. Doess the "J" in JimBob stand for "Jerk"?

MandySue said...

I want to know WHY we (the general public, people the Duggars don't know) NEED to know about their sex lives?

I mean can I share mine with them?

ewwwwwwwwww

Anonymous said...

IMO the whole idea of 'baggage' from a previous relationship, or in the case of the Duggars, possibly merely a passing teen romantic interest on Michelle's part, is bizarre.

Surely we've all read that life experiences are what mold us and teach us and, ultimately, make us who we are. WHY are life's lessons, life's relationships that didn't last forever considered 'baggage'? Why such negativity?

Why not celebrate even the sad or painful life experiences for the LESSONS they provided? Sometimes the greatest learnings come through life's disappointments and pain. This isn't baggage - it's a life gift.

The Duggar concept of baggage is just more of their setting meaningless 'goals' and then congratulating themselves for doing (or abstaining from) things that don't matter in the scheme of an ethical life.

A dating couple sharing a premarital kiss is an example: WHO SAYS this is in ANY way superior, including ethically, to dating and getting to know (not biblically necessarily) more than one man before marriage? Some might say this is less than emotionally healthy and stunted.

What the Duggars deem 'ideal' and optimal is nonsensical IMO.

I'd much rather be grateful for all the things, people, and learnings that have entered my life and like to think that perhaps my life is enriched by these rather than weighted down with 'baggage'.

Beating one's chest in a mea culpa way over imagined 'baggage' or 'mistakes' is just a way to draw attention to one's assumed holiness for being a remorseful 'sinner'. Hard to imagine THIS is what any god wants life to be all about.

Anonymous said...

I've often wondered if JB is targeting anyone specific in the audience when he refers to M's 'baggage'.I'm surprised someone or someones doesn't speak up on the matter.

Anonymous said...

>IMO the whole idea of 'baggage' from a previous relationship, or in the case of the Duggars, possibly merely a passing teen romantic interest on Michelle's part, is bizarre.

----------------------------------

yes,obviously JB is just speaking of a normal,teenage relationship,of which those come and go.I don't know anyone who obseses over them later in life,or uses them as an excuse to discourage their own kids from having normal teenage relationships.

I find it akin to obsessing over a part-time job one had as a teen.who does that?

Anonymous said...

IMO the whole idea of 'baggage' from a previous relationship, or in the case of the Duggars, possibly merely a passing teen romantic interest on Michelle's part, is bizarre.

-------------------------------
At most, Michelle had one or two boyfriends before she met JB, as most young girls who are juniors and seniors in high school tend to do. I can't imagine that the relationships were anything beyond initial 'puppy love', innocent things.

To me, this so-called baggage reveals that JB was and is insecure about his own self. He wishes that Michelle had never so much as looked at another male in her life, and if she *gasp* kissed another boy or "gave a piece of her heart" to another boy before he came along, he probably resents that fact. Thus the big deal over "baggage," that most of us consider the normal rite of passage of young adults.

Meeting and casually dating several people is the way you find the person who really clicks for you. The chances of finding that special someone on your first try are pretty minimal. I think the Duggars and those that follow the same guidelines are (again) doing their children a huge disservice by not allowing them the chance to get to know several young people of the opposite sex before settling down into marriage.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous 8:44: agree about the self control issue.

Maybe Michelle should start Jim Bob on a little blanket training so he could learn a little self control.

Anonymous said...

re:Maybe Michelle should start Jim Bob on a little blanket training so he could learn a little self control.
===================================

yes,and she should pop him with a wooden spoon if he gets out of line!

Sharla said...

I just rejected several Duggar vs Amish comments and a couple Amish only ones. Perhaps some day we'll have a Duggar Amish post to compare and contrast. It could be interesting.

Anonymous said...

Here's a link to an article about the Duggar kids coming down with chicken pox. There's not that much new info, but the video at the bottom of the page is apparently from next week's episode. Poor kids, having to deal with a whole camera crew parading around them when they're sick. :(

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1304865/Controversial-Duggar-family-reveal-12-19-children-came-chicken-pox.html

And- I'm not sure if this has been addressed already, so excuse me if it has- but what justification do the Duggars use for not immunizing their kids?

-Em

Nicole said...

"And- I'm not sure if this has been addressed already, so excuse me if it has- but what justification do the Duggars use for not immunizing their kids?"

Just because they contracted chickenpox doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't get the vaccine. When my kids got the chicken pox, some of them had had the vaccine and some of them hadn't. Not only did they ALL get the chickenpox, but the ones that had the vaccine had a worse case than the ones that didn't! So, no assumptions can be made here. There are many reasons some parents choose to not vaccinate for the chickenpox, or other diseases.

Disgusted Granny said...

I haven't seen it, but from comments here and in other places it's clear that the Duggars allowed (possibly encouraged) filming of their sick children. This is a dreadful thing to do to their children. What an invasion of privacy. Where are the child welfare people? And who in their right mind wants to see sick kids exploited in this way? They were sick, but unlike other workers they had no sick leave and still had to perform before cameras in a fake reality show. Why isn't anyone looking after these children's rights?

Protect the Kids! said...

Reality show TV children have no rights. They can be filmed on the potty, having a temper tantrum, hitting their siblings, or getting into dangerous situations. They can be filmed ill, in pain, in labor (Anna, still a "child", after all).

No one is there to protect the child. There are no laws for reality TV kids. One would hope that the parents, who sign the contract, would have the best interests of their children in mind, but as we have seen with almost every reality TV family, the Duggars included, best interest of children seem not to be a high priority.

It's all about the money. Some people, even religious fundamentalists like the Duggars, seem to be ok with exploiting their kids (whether it is wisdom teeth or chicken pox or a tiny preemie's compromised immune system) for the almighty dollar.

It's why there is a growing movement to get some laws in place to protect these kids. The parents are too greedy, so we need laws to do what the parents won't.

Anonymous said...

Who wouldn't like to never have a boss, sleep in as late as you want, and get to play with your own kids all day. I think it sounds great.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sleep in? How is that possible with little ones in the house? More like NEVER sleep in. Play all day? Well, maybe if I had a maid, personal shopper, chauffeur etc...

If every one of the Duggar girls want to get married, stay home and raise babies, more power to them. However, I wonder if they really have that choice. No college or training outside the home for any of them? Who is going to support them? Not everyone has an income that can support a wife and boatload of kids. Also, Anna seems happy with her life/daughter. Not everyone's choice maybe, but certainly a noble one.

Anonymous said...

My son had the vaccine for chickenpox but got it anyway.It doesn't always work.But it can prevent shingles later in life,so imo it might be a good idea to try and prevent it.
That said,I wasn't even allowed to have friends over when I had it as a child..much less a whole film crew!I recall feeling quite terrible when I had it,so much so that my mom woulnd't even let friends who'd already had it come over.

Anonymous said...

In reference to reality show kids having no rights, that astounds me.
While we don't really have any reality shows in Aus that follow children around their homes, one TV channel just finished filming Masterchef for kids between the ages of 8 and 12.
There was an article about how filming was different to the adult series. They remarked that although it is a reality show the children fall under the same labour laws as child actors and can only work for certain number of hours a day, have to have a break every hour and the way they are treated is carefully monitored.
It is clear from what I have seen and read that the Duggar children (and other reality children)are not afforded have such attention and concern. Such a shame.

Anonymous said...

Who wouldn't like to never have a boss, sleep in as late as you want, and get to play with your own kids all day. I think it sounds great.
------------------------

Who gets to live this life, except for wealthy pampered socialites? And even they don't play with their kids all day -- they're too busy shopping or having lunch with their friends.

I don't know any mom who sleeps in as late as she wants, unless it's Mother's Day. I actually became an early bird after having children because that was the best way for me to get things accomplished without interruption.

As to playing with the kids all day - again, what mom does this? As a SAHM, and now as a working mom, I have a lot of chores to do around my home. I never had time to play all day with my children, although I had playful times throughout the day when they were younger.

Week-ends are our most consistent free times together.

Being a SAHM is a lot of work. That's why I wish Michelle would pitch in and do her fair share instead of delegating all responsibility to the older girls.

Again - parents should only have the amount of children they can afford to house, feed and clothe, as well as emotionally nurture. If they can afford to hire nannies and in-home tutors, and house keepers, that's fine and dandy. But parents should not raise up their daughters to fill those roles - it's just wrong. Not to mention, lazy.

Anonymous said...

I remember seeing a film clip of the two young Duggar women (Jana and Jill) in lying in their beds
with, of course, ever grinning Dad there plus younger siblings scrambling around AND the ever present camera crew! These young women had just had wisdom teeth pulled! It was easy to see they were in pain and more than that, their resignation with having everyone crowding in plus all in America who cared to watch. No privacy - not even in their own bed space at a time like that!! No doubt Mr. Duggar was grinning because he could hear the cash register ringing. Never miss a marketing moment.

Anonymous said...

I agree. I think that was one of the many times that the cameras should not have been allowed to film. For one thing I am sure the girls didn't appreciate being filmed all swollen and in pain and the thing they just didn't need to be filmed, period, while in their beds. I really don't think Jim Bob has a clue. I know they think of the camera people as family, but the outside world watching is not and does not need to see everything.

MWM said...

The Duggars won a Tubey Award yesterday for "Worst Reality TV Moment" (the scene where Michelle is trying to fit a gigantic bow on preemie Josie's head).

http:
//www.televisionwithoutpity.com/
show/tubey_awards/tubey_awards_2010_reality_show.php

I know the Duggars rarely watch tv, but somehow, someway, I hope they find out about this and it motivates them to bring their train-wreck of a show to a halt.

love the duggars said...

Michelle Duggar is now not making sense. She stated that the reason they stopped birth control, is that they realised that the pill was the cause of their first baby's miscarriage. They were appalled that "something we did, caused this death"....

Yet now, when "something they did" could cause the death of Michelle or a new baby; they say it is "in God's hands". Dying grandpa was "in God's hands"....but the miscarriage WASN'T in God's hands?

That is inconsistant and illogical.

Which is it? Is it something they do, or something God is in control of?

I don't think it is a matter of the rest of us not understanding their beliefs; the truth is, THEY don't even understand!

Anonymous said...

"If they got their tubes tied, or the big V, then they would be breaking something that God created for their bodies for good. It is the only thing that a person purposefully ruins in their own body."

But there ARE other options!

My hubby and I have not used hormonal birth control due to concerns about how it prevents implantation of an embryo (a concern I know the Duggars share), and we have not been sterilized...

And yet we've "only" had 5 children in 13 years of marriage. If we'd had children at the same rate as the Duggars we'd have about 9-10 children by now. But we utilize natural family planning and other spermicide or barrier contraceptives.

Anonymous 3:11 said...

To be fair, I think those profiles were written when the specials began 6 years ago and were never touched again (aside from the kids that have been added since). I seriously doubt that those are still the girls' goals, if they ever were at all.

Ummm...actually, unless things have changed, those are the ONLY career goals women are "allowed" to have under Bill Gothard and the ATI teachings.

Anonymous said...

Re: But there ARE other options!

My hubby and I have not used hormonal birth control due to concerns about how it prevents implantation of an embryo (a concern I know the Duggars share), and we have not been sterilized...

And yet we've "only" had 5 children in 13 years of marriage. If we'd had children at the same rate as the Duggars we'd have about 9-10 children by now. But we utilize natural family planning and other spermicide or barrier contraceptives.
-----------------------------------

Indeed,they could have switched birth control methods.It's just a very see-thru excuse for not using birth control at all.

roddma said...

"I think the Duggars and those that follow the same guidelines are (again) doing their children a huge disservice by not allowing them the chance to get to know several young people of the opposite sex before settling down into marriage."
In some cultures arranged marriages or betrothals are the norm. Courtship isn't arrange marriage but the parents have a lot of influence and control. No not many are lucky finding a mate with their first love. If the kids are raised correctly it shouldn't be no problem. Josh and Anna barley knew each other. I thought is was sad the parents couldn't trust them to be alone.

"Those older girls are beautiful, I have a hard time believing that there has been no suitable suitor yet for them. "
I get the impression the Duggar girls have brought suitors. Once they mentioned getting emails from wierdos wanting to court them.

Sharla said...

If your comments are not going through, you might want to read about punctuation and capitalization or boards on boards. Discussing other people's opinions especially chastizing them for their opinions is not allowed here. If you don't like the turn of the conversation, try introducing a new view instead of telling people that they shouldn't be saying what they are saying. Thank you. :)

Anonymous said...

roddma said:
Courtship isn't arrange marriage but the parents have a lot of influence and control. No not many are lucky finding a mate with their first love. If the kids are raised correctly it shouldn't be no problem. Josh and Anna barley knew each other. I thought is was sad the parents couldn't trust them to be alone.

---------------------------------

I know it's a cultural thing, but personally, I'm not really comfortable with parents have a lot of control or say-so over who their adult children date and/or ultimately marry. That's because I believe parents should raise children to adulthood, but then step back and let them be adults and make their own decisions. Yes, even if you think they are making a huge mistake, you must surrender to the fact that your kids are no longer kids but full grown adults who must learn how to make their own way in life.

I know that arranged marriages have a long tradition from times gone by. Not surprisingly, also during those times, women were considered more like possessions or property of their father, and had little to no rights of their own. Most women couldn't own property, couldn't sue for divorce, etc. I really don't think it was so great being a woman back then. So citing the long tradition of arranged marriages or courtship doesn't sell me on the idea.

However, the Duggars and their own brand of faith want to keep the father as head of the household, practically forever, even up to and including selecting spouses for their children. The fact that the Duggars have consistently downplayed the more extreme aspects of their beliefs as the seasons have gone on is proof that it doesn't really sell well to the general public.

Anonymous said...

Is this really what is considered entertainment nowadays? SO over it.

roddma said...

"The fact that the Duggars have consistently downplayed the more extreme aspects of their beliefs as the seasons have gone on is proof that it doesn't really sell well to the general public."
The Duggars have also contradicted themselves on courtship. They say Josh and Ann picked it but I doubt they had choices. A camera crew asked Jinger 'what would happen f she turned down a courtship' and she replied cheerfully 'that would never happen. 'If the Duggars are so uncomfortable with solo dating, why not give Christian dating groups a shot? It would be better than denying them entirely. I'm not fond of the courtship thing myself.

Anonymous said...

I don't have this ones taped, but IIRC I think the daughter was asked if she wanted to, would she be allowed to date instead of going through courtship and she replied "that's not really an option." I can't check for sure though. In any case I think she was referring to dating vs. courtship, I don't think she was saying they are not allowed to refuse a certain man that Dad has pre-approved. I hope not anyway, but with the Duggars you never really know for sure.

Honestly, lately, I take pretty much everything they say with a grain of salt. I mean, look at the three (or more) different versions on the Jana and John-David asking to go to SE Asia story. Michelle says she doesn't like being alone, then she does. The funny order the shows were presented that doesn't line up with the actual agenda of their trip. Add in the stupid things they say like the shingles and Purple Heart medal, with my recent realization that they have sugar-spun basically their entire lives from the very beginning with 14 kids and counting specials. I didn't know that the original special was edited before being re-aired to cut out a lot of religious stuff. Their hypocrisy astounds me.

Pretty sad that I feel like I can't believe what these people say, when they are supposed to be such Christians. Doing the show to encourage? What exactly are they encouraging us to do?

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure who it was that said you wouldn't get shingles late in life...Jim Bob just agreed w/ it. I really think it was one of the cameramen. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. In other words, that might have been someone trying to make him look stupid...I think TLC does that a lot.

As for the Purple Heart--I took that comment as Grandpa Ruark was saving some else's life when he was injured. Jim Bob mentioned him having shrapnel in his leg because of it. Therefore, the statement that he got the Purple Heart because he saved someone's life. Perhaps he wouldn't have gotten it had he not saved the person's life because he wouldn't have gotten injured.

I thought the bit at the beginning of the episode w/ everyone calling their mothers was really silly. I don't believe for a minute that everyone suddenly called their moms just before they went into the house.

Anonymous said...

What was in the original 14 kids special that was edited out and re-aired later? Does anyone know?

Anonymous said...

How can Mr. & Mrs. Duggar condone Grandma Duggar doing all that laundry every week? Hasn't Grandma at 70+ earned the time to have some fun and relaxation with her grandchildren? The children get so little one-on-one with adults - grandma could take turns with the smaller children, reading books, playing games, going on trips into town. At $50,000 a show and many shows each year, surely there's enough money to hire someone to do the laundry. It's dismaying that Mr. Duggar is not honoring his elderly mother. Do Mr. and Mrs. Duggar do any chores these days? Can anyone imagine Mr. Duggar doing laundry for 20 when he's 70?

Anonymous said...

First off, I would like to say that I am very large fan of the Duggar family - ever since the early documentries. I own many of the seasons, (which are available at Target, at very reasonable prices).

I remember the small ranch-style home that the family lived in, when TLC discovered them. (I believe that was when it was 14 or 15 Kids Counting), followed by the family "building" the very large home in Tontitown, AR - where they curently live.

I am a Christian, although I do not follow all of the strict guidelines that they adhere to. I enjoy a maragarita, especially when I'm dining at a Mexican restaurant. I'm also a firm beliver that nothing beats a dirty Grey Goose martini :-) I also love to dance, and have had 1 of my (2) daughters involved in gymnastics and dance. Even though I feel that the Duggars are indeed, a bit - "extreme", I also find (just from watching the show), that us, "normal" parents, can pick up some very good tips. And, as long as I am posting, I felt the need to comment on, 'Cousin Amy.

I would be wlling to bet my bank account, that lil Miss Cousin Amy, did NOT come around to spend so much time with, "Uncle Jim Bob, until those cameras started rolling. All of a sudden, she decided to join in on family trips, etc....

I have a verry bad feeling about her. To alot of people, they feel that Amy brings, "real life" into the show.......What I see however, is someone trying DESPERALY to gain as much camera time on national TV, as possible. I certinaly cannot be the only one who sees this....

I love the show - and I hope they continue...I could DEFINITEY do without, "Cousin Amy". She plays into the camera constantly. She wants to be the, "normal girl", and get the audience to side w/ her...I believe the show would be better w/o her. Again, this is my opinion only. But I own all the seasons on DVD, and I have watched and re-watched everything...she is just so phoney.

That is all :-)
~M

Kitten said...

I'm not sure who it was that said you wouldn't get shingles late in life...Jim Bob just agreed w/ it.

Well, since I am ultimately responsible for the education of my children, if someone/anyone made a patently false statement in front of them, I would politely disagree and explain that, in fact, having chickenpox is actually the primary cause of shingles later in life, as the virus remains dormant in your body after the inital infection, and can be reactivated.

However, JB apparently does NOT know that, OR he is willing to mislead his children in some weird attempt to not contradict someone else? You can decide for yourself which of those you believe.

Just like the episode where he attempts to explain "metal" to his children. He seems to simply make things up whenever he is unsure or unaware of the facts. Sadly, it would seem they believe him to be the fount of all that is wise and good to know. It is heartbreaking to watch the transfer of so much "false" knowledge to these young people.

And I'm not even talking about the whole creationism vs. evolution, which can, however tenuously in my opinion, be validly argued as a matter of faith. I mean basic scientific facts such as the table of elements, biological facts such as the nature of viruses and the workings of the human immune system, etc.

Anonymous said...

Cousin Amy used to bother me, too.

But over time I've come to like her, almost.

She is certainly a more reasonable person than any of the Duggar offspring.

MandySue said...

I love cousin Amy...Yeah she wants airtime because she wants a singing career but she doesn't act like anything she isn't. Who wouldn't take advantage of that situation?

Anonymous said...

Cousin Amy gets on my nerves sometimes, but I disagree that she magically showed up when the cameras did though. We have seen photos of her as a child playing with the older girls when they were small. Christmases and things. Just because she wasn't in the specials doesn't mean she wasn't around. Yes, I'm sure she wants airtime because of her singing career, but I for one, have been watching from the beginning and didn't even know she was an aspiring singer until like 3 days ago. Anyway, the specials were very limited and edited (didn't most of the old timers think that Jim Bob was an only child for a long time?) and then she was in what, the second episode of 17K&C? That doesn't seem like camera whoring to me, that seems like, she was always there, we just simply hadn't seen her until the series started.

mythoughtis said...

I think the reason some people (not me) find Amy annoying is the contrast between her and her cousins. If we saw Amy out in real life with a group of her peers, she'd fit right in with the rest of them. She just seems more confident, more outgoing, and louder than the Duggars. More like a normal person, in other words.

Swissmiss said...

I don't care for cousin Amy at all. I find her annoying.

on the fence said...

I was reading another blog earlier this summer (razing ruth). Ruth was raised in an ATI/Gothard family but ran away from home to escape a marriage her father was trying to force one her. Anyway, she still has ties to her old circles and claims that she believes Michelle is pregnant again, but could not share the reasons for her suspicions. If that's true, why do you suppose they are not announcing the coming blessing? Are they afraid of public backlash? Or is TLC saving it for a season finale? Or do you think it's just another rumor?

cpmomm said...

Just viewed the Chicken Pox episode and a few things need to be mentioned (maybe they have already been)
1. I was applauded at Michelle carrying the stroller and accessories down the flight of stairs in one trip all by herself. She was putting herself and Josie in danger with a possibility of falling down those stairs.
2. Common sense and the more safe thing to do was leave Josie at the top of the stair landing where she can be seen and then to bring the stroller down, bring all the accessories down and return up the stairs for Josie. Granted this would of taken a few trips up and down, and the would have to be down quickly. But in reality Josie would not be left alone because there would be a cameraman standing there filming her.
3. Michelle needs to realize that putting all the accessories is not a new idea to share with the world. Many people before her have figured out to use the stroller handles to carry things.
4. I bet she found out that when she took Josie out of the car seat in the stroller that the stroller would of fallen back due to being "top heavy"
5. One of the girls was praising Jim Bob for doing a good job of taking care of the chicken pox kids especially since it isn't in his JURISDICTION. When does a father need to be assigned to a jurisdiction to care for his children.
So so sad.

Anonymous said...

I am from Fayetteville, and I am the same age as Amy. There is a strip of bars in Fayetteville where all the young adults/college aged kids go out.

I see Amy out there very often.

Not that I think drinking is bad or makes you a bad Christian. But.. I will say... I don't think you can associate yourself as "being like the Duggars" and yet go out to bars (even if you aren't drinking). Just seems like she's kind of "playing the game"..

mythoughtis said...

I don't think that Amy has ever portrayed herself to be 'like the Duggars'. She doesn't have to... she IS a DUGGAR. She doesn't try to act like the conservative branch of the family. She wears pants, jeans mostly, dates, etc.
It's been stated on the series by one of the Duggar girls that 'Amy isn't like us, but we love her anyway'.

If she is 21, she's old enough to legally drink and/or go to bars if she chooses to. Many Christians drink and go to bars. It's only against the rules in certain conservative denominations. Guess what... many Christians also smoke cigarettes, eat too much, work for others, go to public school, wear swim suits(even bikinis), get divorced, etc.

Anonymous said...

As a couple of other posters have pointed out, Michelle wouldn't have been able to leave Josie upstairs while she carried her accessories down because Josie was supposed to be attached to her oxygen and pulse ox machine at all times! The best solution would have been to carry Josie in her arms with all her accessories in a backpack or something, then go back up for the rest of the stuff. Michelle was definitely going for efficiency there. Not the best idea in the world, but she managed.

MandySue said...

Standing O for mythoughtis- I like Amy because she acts like a normal person and doesn't act like she's perfect. I have ever heard her say she doesn't drink, smoke and hang out with people who do.

Yea for a "normal" Duggar